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Factory and lab quiality? Protecting newbies chances.

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Kraythe	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:39:00 - [1] Ok imagine you are totally new to the game. You decide you want to build stuff. So you make an industry char. Then you mine a bit and collect some minerals. Next you go to the station and decide you want to make something. You have acquired a really low level BP for miner I and get ready to do the work. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Try again. Super corporations have already rented most of the slots and are hodling them. Of those that are available, you will need a cool quarter of a million ISK to get one. The problem is that the hording of the slots creates a very limited supply and therefore newbies cant compete. The idea I had to resolve it is to make slots in factories have quality associated with them. For example, in a newbie factory you can only make newbie stuff. Now since corps wouldnt need this newbie stuff they would have less incentive to rent them out. I think this combined with a rental limit would make the production trade much more accessible to newbies. Comments? Try to keep it civil please. -- Kraythe
Kraythe	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:39:00 - [2] Ok imagine you are totally new to the game. You decide you want to build stuff. So you make an industry char. Then you mine a bit and collect some minerals. Next you go to the station and decide you want to make something. You have acquired a really low level BP for miner I and get ready to do the work. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Try again. Super corporations have already rented most of the slots and are hodling them. Of those that are available, you will need a cool quarter of a million ISK to get one. The problem is that the hording of the slots creates a very limited supply and therefore newbies cant compete. The idea I had to resolve it is to make slots in factories have quality associated with them. For example, in a newbie factory you can only make newbie stuff. Now since corps wouldnt need this newbie stuff they would have less incentive to rent them out. I think this combined with a rental limit would make the production trade much more accessible to newbies. Comments? Try to keep it civil please. -- Kraythe
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:45:00 - [3] Pace yourself, even I can't keep up and I'm sure you've sent Joshua into toothpick counting mode already. Not everyone wanting to do something will be able, this isn't utopia, this is EVE. I see labslots open every other day. If you need anything done take away 75% of the factories and add another 10% labs, that would make for some manufacturing competition. Convert Stations
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:45:00 - [4] Pace yourself, even I can't keep up and I'm sure you've sent Joshua into toothpick counting mode already. Not everyone wanting to do something will be able, this isn't utopia, this is EVE. I see labslots open every other day. If you need anything done take away 75% of the factories and add another 10% labs, that would make for some manufacturing competition. Convert Stations
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:46:00 - [5] Kraythe, I am your father. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:46:00 - [6] Kraythe, I am your father. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Kraythe	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:49:00 - [7] Edited by: Kraythe on 18/10/2004 20:52:22 I dont think saying "pace yourself" is going to keep people playign in game as newbies. Right now factories and labs are FAR out of newbie budget range. Condemning a newbi to 60 hours of mining to even be able to make the EQ equivalent of Patchwork armor is fine for the super corps but really lousy for keeping new players. This game is EXCEEDINGLY newbie unfriendly. Edit: I ignore off comment irrelevant statements and insults. Keep it civil and on topic and I will reply. -- Kraythe
Kraythe	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:49:00 - [8] Edited by: Kraythe on 18/10/2004 20:52:22 I dont think saying "pace yourself" is going to keep people playign in game as newbies. Right now factories and labs are FAR out of newbie budget range. Condemning a newbi to 60 hours of mining to even be able to make the EQ equivalent of Patchwork armor is fine for the super corps but really lousy for keeping new players. This game is EXCEEDINGLY newbie unfriendly. Edit: I ignore off comment irrelevant statements and insults. Keep it civil and on topic and I will reply. -- Kraythe
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:50:00 - [9] Originally by: Kraythe I dont think saying "pace yourself" is going to keep people playign in game as newbies. Right now factories and labs are FAR out of newbie budget range. Condemning a newbi to 60 hours of mining to even be able to make the EQ equivalent of Patchwork armor is fine for the super corps but really lousy for keeping new players. This game is EXCEEDINGLY newbie unfriendly. Don't believe the manual. Lab slots have been an issue for over a year now and nothing is going to change in the near future. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:50:00 - [10] Originally by: Kraythe I dont think saying "pace yourself" is going to keep people playign in game as newbies. Right now factories and labs are FAR out of newbie budget range. Condemning a newbi to 60 hours of mining to even be able to make the EQ equivalent of Patchwork armor is fine for the super corps but really lousy for keeping new players. This game is EXCEEDINGLY newbie unfriendly. Don't believe the manual. Lab slots have been an issue for over a year now and nothing is going to change in the near future. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Kraythe	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Kraythe I dont think saying "pace yourself" is going to keep people playign in game as newbies. Right now factories and labs are FAR out of newbie budget range. Condemning a newbi to 60 hours of mining to even be able to make the EQ equivalent of Patchwork armor is fine for the super corps but really lousy for keeping new players. This game is EXCEEDINGLY newbie unfriendly. Don't believe the manual. Lab slots have been an issue for over a year now and nothing is going to change in the near future. Ahh but what does the newb have except the manual? He jumps in game on his trial, all excited to build a little railgun only to find out he needs to do mind numbingly booring mining for a month or get bossed around in a super-corp just to build a little thing. If you cant trust the manual then something is really messed up. -- Kraythe
Kraythe	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Kraythe I dont think saying "pace yourself" is going to keep people playign in game as newbies. Right now factories and labs are FAR out of newbie budget range. Condemning a newbi to 60 hours of mining to even be able to make the EQ equivalent of Patchwork armor is fine for the super corps but really lousy for keeping new players. This game is EXCEEDINGLY newbie unfriendly. Don't believe the manual. Lab slots have been an issue for over a year now and nothing is going to change in the near future. Ahh but what does the newb have except the manual? He jumps in game on his trial, all excited to build a little railgun only to find out he needs to do mind numbingly booring mining for a month or get bossed around in a super-corp just to build a little thing. If you cant trust the manual then something is really messed up. -- Kraythe
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:55:00 - [13] Online games are a lot more likely to change a lot than most games so it's hard to keep a paper-based manual uptodate. There's more help in the Support pages so you're best bet would be to look there for answers before posting here. Labs are posted about quite frequently in the Factory section of this forum too LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:55:00 - [14] Online games are a lot more likely to change a lot than most games so it's hard to keep a paper-based manual uptodate. There's more help in the Support pages so you're best bet would be to look there for answers before posting here. Labs are posted about quite frequently in the Factory section of this forum too LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:58:00 - [15] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=107937 You could bump the above link as it seems to be the most recent discussion re: lab slots and avialability. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:58:00 - [16] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=107937 You could bump the above link as it seems to be the most recent discussion re: lab slots and avialability. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Kraythe	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Online games are a lot more likely to change a lot than most games so it's hard to keep a paper-based manual uptodate. There's more help in the Support pages so you're best bet would be to look there for answers before posting here. Labs are posted about quite frequently in the Factory section of this forum too Ahh but joshua, you are still ignoring the fundamental reality that the newbie builder or newbie researcher has virtually zero chance to ply his trade. It may not affect you but it does affect people trying out the game. Those people may decide they dont want to mine for a month to build a railgun. In order to grow faster, Eve needs to fix the newbie gap and give them a leg up in the world. -- Kraythe
Kraythe	Posted - 2004.10.18 20:58:00 - [18] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Online games are a lot more likely to change a lot than most games so it's hard to keep a paper-based manual uptodate. There's more help in the Support pages so you're best bet would be to look there for answers before posting here. Labs are posted about quite frequently in the Factory section of this forum too Ahh but joshua, you are still ignoring the fundamental reality that the newbie builder or newbie researcher has virtually zero chance to ply his trade. It may not affect you but it does affect people trying out the game. Those people may decide they dont want to mine for a month to build a railgun. In order to grow faster, Eve needs to fix the newbie gap and give them a leg up in the world. -- Kraythe
Xavier Arron	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:00:00 - [19] Edited by: Xavier Arron on 18/10/2004 21:07:22 Edited by: Xavier Arron on 18/10/2004 21:05:44 The problem is not with mega corps, its the fact that everyone in EVE is a manufacturer, mainly due to the fact that most tech 1 BPO's are way too cheap and hence most corps and individuals own 10's if not 100's of the things. Not to mention the lack of Skills for being a manufactuer and that any noob with a BPO / BPC can make anything from a couple of rounds of ammo to battleship in under 5hrs. You have a BPO to research - great - but so does everyone else. Its not evil mega corps owning them all.
Xavier Arron	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:00:00 - [20] Edited by: Xavier Arron on 18/10/2004 21:07:22 Edited by: Xavier Arron on 18/10/2004 21:05:44 The problem is not with mega corps, its the fact that everyone in EVE is a manufacturer, mainly due to the fact that most tech 1 BPO's are way too cheap and hence most corps and individuals own 10's if not 100's of the things. Not to mention the lack of Skills for being a manufactuer and that any noob with a BPO / BPC can make anything from a couple of rounds of ammo to battleship in under 5hrs. You have a BPO to research - great - but so does everyone else. Its not evil mega corps owning them all.
Kraythe	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:04:00 - [21] Making the BOP more expensive wont help the newbie looking to get into the game. Again and again I seem to be failing to communicate the thrust of the thread. You are all talking about the factories and labs in the context of the established player and the problems they have. I am talkign about them in the context of the newbie. There is a massive difference there. As Eve grows this problem will get more and more drastic. Personally I think research and manufacturing should be account wide like learning skills. Dont let a single account hog 3 slots of each. -- Kraythe
Kraythe	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:04:00 - [22] Making the BOP more expensive wont help the newbie looking to get into the game. Again and again I seem to be failing to communicate the thrust of the thread. You are all talking about the factories and labs in the context of the established player and the problems they have. I am talkign about them in the context of the newbie. There is a massive difference there. As Eve grows this problem will get more and more drastic. Personally I think research and manufacturing should be account wide like learning skills. Dont let a single account hog 3 slots of each. -- Kraythe
Jorlin	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:16:00 - [23] i'd prefer a skillbased option. everyone is able to rent one slot...then another one per level of a yet-to-create skill. make this skill cheap..but at least rank 8...better 10 everything now is about specialisation. why not do something for the dedicated researchers? get those labslot hogging alts out.... no police, no summons, no courts of law; no proper procedure, no rules of war; no mitigating circumstance; no lawyers fees, no second chance!
Jorlin	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:16:00 - [24] i'd prefer a skillbased option. everyone is able to rent one slot...then another one per level of a yet-to-create skill. make this skill cheap..but at least rank 8...better 10 everything now is about specialisation. why not do something for the dedicated researchers? get those labslot hogging alts out.... no police, no summons, no courts of law; no proper procedure, no rules of war; no mitigating circumstance; no lawyers fees, no second chance!
Bohr	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Kraythe I dont think saying "pace yourself" is going to keep people playign in game as newbies. Right now factories and labs are FAR out of newbie budget range. Condemning a newbi to 60 hours of mining to even be able to make the EQ equivalent of Patchwork armor is fine for the super corps but really lousy for keeping new players. This game is EXCEEDINGLY newbie unfriendly. Don't believe the manual. Lab slots have been an issue for over a year now and nothing is going to change in the near future. Can you say research slot POSs? May be costing isk to run, but will have some huge logistic bonuses, as in being able to research out of the system you do your day to day operations in.
Bohr	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Originally by: Kraythe I dont think saying "pace yourself" is going to keep people playign in game as newbies. Right now factories and labs are FAR out of newbie budget range. Condemning a newbi to 60 hours of mining to even be able to make the EQ equivalent of Patchwork armor is fine for the super corps but really lousy for keeping new players. This game is EXCEEDINGLY newbie unfriendly. Don't believe the manual. Lab slots have been an issue for over a year now and nothing is going to change in the near future. Can you say research slot POSs? May be costing isk to run, but will have some huge logistic bonuses, as in being able to research out of the system you do your day to day operations in.
Bohr	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:49:00 - [27] Originally by: Xavier Arron Edited by: Xavier Arron on 18/10/2004 21:07:22 Edited by: Xavier Arron on 18/10/2004 21:05:44 The problem is not with mega corps, its the fact that everyone in EVE is a manufacturer, mainly due to the fact that most tech 1 BPO's are way too cheap and hence most corps and individuals own 10's if not 100's of the things. Not to mention the lack of Skills for being a manufactuer and that any noob with a BPO / BPC can make anything from a couple of rounds of ammo to battleship in under 5hrs. You have a BPO to research - great - but so does everyone else. Its not evil mega corps owning them all. T1 Blueprint availability is far from the problem. Problem is to a large dgree hoarding, which now have been taken over by low availabilty, i.e a market not putting an effort into keeping up with demand. Hoarding in disguise actually.
Bohr	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Xavier Arron Edited by: Xavier Arron on 18/10/2004 21:07:22 Edited by: Xavier Arron on 18/10/2004 21:05:44 The problem is not with mega corps, its the fact that everyone in EVE is a manufacturer, mainly due to the fact that most tech 1 BPO's are way too cheap and hence most corps and individuals own 10's if not 100's of the things. Not to mention the lack of Skills for being a manufactuer and that any noob with a BPO / BPC can make anything from a couple of rounds of ammo to battleship in under 5hrs. You have a BPO to research - great - but so does everyone else. Its not evil mega corps owning them all. T1 Blueprint availability is far from the problem. Problem is to a large dgree hoarding, which now have been taken over by low availabilty, i.e a market not putting an effort into keeping up with demand. Hoarding in disguise actually.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:51:00 - [29] Originally by: Kraythe Personally I think research and manufacturing should be account wide like learning skills Kraythe. Go away. Take a month. LEARN the game. If you have suggestions, post them on the EVE Idea Lab, not here. You're trying to fix things which work (not perfectly, but they work). As you'd know with more experience of the game. You have to go out and earn your destiny in Eve - it won't come to you. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.10.18 21:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Kraythe Personally I think research and manufacturing should be account wide like learning skills Kraythe. Go away. Take a month. LEARN the game. If you have suggestions, post them on the EVE Idea Lab, not here. You're trying to fix things which work (not perfectly, but they work). As you'd know with more experience of the game. You have to go out and earn your destiny in Eve - it won't come to you. "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"

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