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Maeltstome
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
15
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Posted - 2012.06.04 14:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok, so the loki doesn't SUCK - but it seems to definately be the worst of the bunch.
Tengu: U NO CAN 1V1 A TENGU etc.
Proteus: Excellent DPS, can maintain good damage with Co-Ops fitting, good buffer options, nice active rep bonus
Legion: Good range on lasers (more about the weapon system honestly), INSANE EHP tank, Neut strength bonus EWar is very offensive.
Loki: Web range bonus interferes with lack of mid slots... and isn't very strong. Weapon damage is underwhelming for a t3 (only has 1 damage bonus across all sub-systems, most minmatar ships have 2). Cov-ops fits are just... terrible... Active tanking bonus from minmatar disappears in favour of shield resists...
I suppose i could go on, but it just feels like you need to pump over a billion into this ship to make it perform the same as a T2 fitted version of any other T3 ship.
It's not un-useable... just seems to be lacking - mainly i think because the damage bonuses are too low compared to the usual minmatar double damage bonus. Also the active shield tanking bonus that is the minmatar racial is just not there for some reason. |
Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate
Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 15:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
For a ship that sucks the Loki is pretty damn popular as an instalocker and heavy tackler, not to mention as an offgrid booster. |
Bibosikus
Universal Moose Federation
Moose Alliance
119
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 15:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
I use a Loki for one specific role: Highsec exploration in Minnie space. For that, it is an absolute master.
It has a couple of other well-defined specific roles (as mentioned, off-grid booster etc.) but other than that, as a solo boat, it's a small hull-pwner and not much else. Shame.
The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
Ray Parez
Viziam
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 15:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
I've always though that the sig radius subsystem was a little dumb. I woul have no problem with that being turned into an active shield tanking subsystem, and having one of the resist subsystem being put to use as a 10% to armor/Shields, allowing it to field a similar straight HP buffer on shields or armor to the other t3's. |
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 16:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ray Parez wrote:I've always though that the sig radius subsystem was a little dumb. I woul have no problem with that being turned into an active shield tanking subsystem, and having one of the resist subsystem being put to use as a 10% to armor/Shields, allowing it to field a similar straight HP buffer on shields or armor to the other t3's.
So you want it massively nerfed? |
Dibblerette
The Phantom Regiment
The House Of Cards.
70
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Posted - 2012.06.04 16:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
If I remember right, using the correct implants and drugs along with the sig radius sub can get your signature down to around Thrasher levels. While maybe not the best use of your money, it would actually allow you to sig tank medium weapons pretty well while still maintaining a nice T3 resist tank. Don't forget, Loki can also deploy drones without gimping a combat fit, which is a rare ability for the T3s as well. Honeslty, the Loki is probably the best balanced of the T3 cruisers, my only complaint is the web sub actually removes a medium slot, making it pretty much impossible to have a shield tanked webber. Not trying to start a flame war, but in my humble opinion, the Tengu could use some slight tweaks in the downwards direction, and the Legion should get a little boost to combat configurations (covops dmg bonus anyone?). Finally, it would be very cool if the Proteus could deploy a set of sentries, but that's another thread.
TL:DR Loki is probably most balanced T3, you just have to pick your battles. |
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2012.06.04 18:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Posting in a Buff Winmatar Thread.
In all seriousness, Loki is fine. Ive seen more Lokis than i've seen Proteii and Legions put together.
Loki only getting one Damage Bonus: So what youre saying is that youve been spoiled by Winmatar and you expect a minimum of 2 Damage Bonuses on Everything?
Also: Tell someone who flies a Legion about how bad Covops Loki (Or ANY Loki, for that matter) is.
Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War
Union 0f Revolution
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 20:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bibosikus wrote:I use a Loki for one specific role: Highsec exploration in Minnie space. For that, it is an absolute master.
It has a couple of other well-defined specific roles (as mentioned, off-grid booster etc.) but other than that, as a solo boat, it's a small hull-pwner and not much else. Shame.
(Cue indignant Loki flyers...)
A small-hull pwner exploration ship is great for C1-C3 solo wormhole diving, which iirc is the raison d'etre of the T3 cruisers, really.
Though, for context, I'm rather a fan of the Legion so obviously things like only one subsystem having a proper damage bonus and the covops subsystem not having much dps don't really bother me that much. From an outsider's perspective the sig radius thing is actually pretty cool, as you could potentially make your ship unprobeable without bothering with a cloak-dedicated high slot. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
488
|
Posted - 2012.06.04 22:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mira Lynne wrote:
Also: Tell someone who flies a Legion about how bad Covops Loki (Or ANY Loki, for that matter) is.
"argh, your non-cloaky Loki does way more damage than my covops Legion, so unfair!" |
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.06.04 23:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Mira Lynne wrote:
Also: Tell someone who flies a Legion about how bad Covops Loki (Or ANY Loki, for that matter) is.
"argh, your non-cloaky Loki does way more damage than my covops Legion, so unfair!"
You Misunderstand me - I meant Compare a Covops Legion to a Covops Loki and a Non-Covops Legion to a non Covops Loki.
At no point did I compare a Non-Covops Loki to a Covops Legion.
Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread |
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative.
10
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Posted - 2012.06.04 23:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Ok, so the loki doesn't SUCK - but it seems to definately be the worst of the bunch.
Tengu: U NO CAN 1V1 A TENGU etc.
Proteus: Excellent DPS, can maintain good damage with Co-Ops fitting, good buffer options, nice active rep bonus
Legion: Good range on lasers (more about the weapon system honestly), INSANE EHP tank, Neut strength bonus EWar is very offensive.
Loki: Web range bonus interferes with lack of mid slots... and isn't very strong. Weapon damage is underwhelming for a t3 (only has 1 damage bonus across all sub-systems, most minmatar ships have 2). Cov-ops fits are just... terrible... Active tanking bonus from minmatar disappears in favour of shield resists...
I suppose i could go on, but it just feels like you need to pump over a billion into this ship to make it perform the same as a T2 fitted version of any other T3 ship.
It's not un-useable... just seems to be lacking - mainly i think because the damage bonuses are too low compared to the usual minmatar double damage bonus. Also the active shield tanking bonus that is the minmatar racial is just not there for some reason.
The web bonus/mid slot layout could certainly do with some work but its a pretty decent ship overall with several roles that it does exceedingly well.
With its ability to dictate range, decent tank and reasonable dps as well as a utility slot for a neut (depending on fit) I don't see any reason why it can't 1v1 a tengu - web it down so you can put hail dps onto it and it should go down pretty hard. |
Azrael Reign
Day Trippers
2
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Posted - 2012.06.05 00:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
Don't fly one but they are insanely quick and tough to hit at speed due to tiny sig (possibly the smallest of all t3s?). Besides that it has its weakness like any other ship but makes up for it in other areas and fills the roles it excels at nicely, as some have said a nice tackle ship...its a super rapier..just as a tengu is a super drake imo. All in all seems to do as all other t3s do for their race specific qualities/bonuses.. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
488
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 02:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mira Lynne wrote:Also: Tell someone who flies a Legion about how bad Covops Loki (Or ANY Loki, for that matter) is.
Or ANY Loki
But yeah, the Legion does suck more **** than the other cov op T3s. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Exhale.
299
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 02:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
It's just you...
Loki is the second best T3 after the proteus.
Then comes tengu (yes, i know it's better for some things and for no talent pilots).
Then you have a massive gap.
Gap is still going.
Still going....
Then you get a the Legion.
Loki is also by far the most versatile T3.
Is is great in both armour and shield, perfect for solo and gang work, can be fit well cloaky.
All around it's an excellent ship. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
276
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 03:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:It's just you...
Loki is the second best T3 after the proteus.
Then comes tengu (yes, i know it's better for some things and for no talent pilots).
Then you have a massive gap.
Gap is still going.
Still going....
Then you get a the Legion.
Loki is also by far the most versatile T3.
Is is great in both armour and shield, perfect for solo and gang work, can be fit well cloaky.
All around it's an excellent ship.
The incursion nerf got rid of the one niche the Legion actually excelled in.
Now it's pretty much average for most things and below average for others.
Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window.
(Link was wrong, now fixed) |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
488
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 03:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yeah, god forbid that armor tanking or Amarr ships be good at any PvE. |
Mad Mobius
Pandora Sphere
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 03:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Jack Miton wrote:It's just you...
Loki is the second best T3 after the proteus.
Then comes tengu (yes, i know it's better for some things and for no talent pilots).
Then you have a massive gap.
Gap is still going.
Still going....
Then you get a the Legion.
Loki is also by far the most versatile T3.
Is is great in both armour and shield, perfect for solo and gang work, can be fit well cloaky.
All around it's an excellent ship. The incursion nerf got rid of the one niche the Legion actually excelled in. Now it's pretty much average for most things and below average for others.
QFT ^
I love my Loki. The definately help make your blaster boats even more deadly. One day OP, I hope you get into one and realize how awesome they are.
I think the Neut Legion is a good ship as well. |
Mira Lynne
State War Academy
Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.06.05 03:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Mira Lynne wrote:Also: Tell someone who flies a Legion about how bad Covops Loki (Or ANY Loki, for that matter) is. Or ANY LokiBut yeah, the Legion does suck more **** than the other cov op T3s.
Again, you misunderstand me.
Let me rephrase: Tell someone who flies a Legion how bad the Loki is.
Support the Return of Realistic Module Icons!
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114818&find=unread |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Dead On Arrival Alliance
363
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 04:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
We tangled with a pimped-out shield Loki in a wormhole the other day. On our side, it was soft and buttery. When he jumped back and got his other Loki with the skirish boosts, he was a PITA; 48km dissy, 34km webs, near-zero sig and commensurate EHP went through the roof, and maneuverability and speed out the wazoo.
So, yes, you do need to pimp your Lokis. But in all honesty, it was about as annoying a T3 to deal with as a 100MN Tengu. That and he had a Falcon alt.
The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man.
Sun Tzu
localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Soldarius
TreadStone Standard
The 99 Percent
224
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Posted - 2012.06.05 04:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:That and he had a Falcon alt.
/thread
"How do you kill that which has no life?" |
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Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Dead On Arrival Alliance
366
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Posted - 2012.06.05 05:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think you miss the point. The dude(s) invested in a gang link Loki, a Falcon in case it went bad, and at least 1.5-2Bn in the Loki, plus a shlub in a cane for DPS. There's a difference between Because of Falcon, and a Loki being a sufficiently slippery creature that even without the Falcon alt, we wouldn't likely have killed him in that particular situation. Basically exactly the same as a 100MN Tengu. Invest, you can win.
The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man.
Sun Tzu
localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Maeltstome
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.06.05 08:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:I think you miss the point. The dude(s) invested in a gang link Loki, a Falcon in case it went bad, and at least 1.5-2Bn in the Loki, plus a shlub in a cane for DPS. There's a difference between Because of Falcon, and a Loki being a sufficiently slippery creature that even without the Falcon alt, we wouldn't likely have killed him in that particular situation. Basically exactly the same as a 100MN Tengu. Invest, you can win.
The Loki isn't a terrible ship - i just feel it isn't quite up to where it should be. i think it would be better to explain it like this:
Tengu: lower 'paper' (read: EFT) dps, but extreme range on HML and 100% hit quality.
Legion: Again, lower 'paper' dps but operates in optimal for good 'real' dps
Proteus: Good EHP and Active tanking bonus (highest in the game) which allows it to get close for is 'paper' dps to match it's real DPS
Loki: Has a kiting module bonus, good 'paper' dps but operates in falloff, so really does the same damage as a frigate. Doesn't have an active tanking bonus or a good EHP either to build to get in close like the proteus, or hurricane.
No one is scared of the vagabond anymore because nano is dead and warp core stabs aren't useable in PVP fits (yes, if you remember back that long ago, WCS where standard on a vaga). The loki is essentially a beefed up vaga. The sliepnir is a mega beefed vaga with the advantage of having a tank, which is why people fly it.
The play style the loki is aimed at is dead - Webs are trash and both Minnie recons have fallen over because of this.
The final point im making is: I shouldn't have to spend 1.5bil on a loki for it to be good. If you spend that on any T3 they will be good... but the tengu and proteus are good with t2 - the legion is also capable of certain insane gang roles with t2... whereas the loki is literally just an expensive vagabond... or a gang booster for people to make silly 'solo' PVP videos.
Fly a sleipnir with the new Ancil shield booster and then tell me how goo the loki is. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
489
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Posted - 2012.06.05 08:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:
The play style the loki is aimed at is dead - Webs are trash and both Minnie recons have fallen over because of this.
OK, now I realize you are trolling. |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
111
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 11:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
IMO the Loki is a solid* ship that needs no more or less work than the other T3's need. Other ship classes need way more work and should be looked at first.
*A Loki always makes its presence felt on the battlefield |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
91
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 12:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:
The play style the loki is aimed at is dead - Webs are trash and both Minnie recons have fallen over because of this.
Hi I'm a Huginn and I'm a staple of every major shield doctrine and in the top 20 ships on EVE Kill.
Hi I'm a Rapier, I'm a staple of a lot of armour fleets including the famous Hellcat doctrine, I am also one of the most effective blops ships available.
Hi I'm a bonused web Loki, since the proliferation of T3s I am a staple of AHAC and general armour fleets.
Your post is bad (and wrong) and you should feel bad. |
Maeltstome
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Danny John-Peter wrote:Mfume Apocal wrote:
The play style the loki is aimed at is dead - Webs are trash and both Minnie recons have fallen over because of this.
Hi I'm a Huginn and I'm a staple of every major shield doctrine and in the top 20 ships on EVE Kill. Hi I'm a Rapier, I'm a staple of a lot of armour fleets including the famous Hellcat doctrine, I am also one of the most effective blops ships available. Hi I'm a bonused web Loki, since the proliferation of T3s I am a staple of AHAC and general armour fleets. Your post is bad (and wrong) and you should feel bad.
You posted out of character dude, careful, you'll get kicked. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
189
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 12:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
But what about PvE?
/carebear
Gallente is what America believes itself to be.
Caldari is how America is in reality. |
Maeltstome
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
16
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:But what about PvE?
/carebear
Then it really IS trash :p |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
92
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 12:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Danny John-Peter wrote:Mfume Apocal wrote:
The play style the loki is aimed at is dead - Webs are trash and both Minnie recons have fallen over because of this.
Hi I'm a Huginn and I'm a staple of every major shield doctrine and in the top 20 ships on EVE Kill. Hi I'm a Rapier, I'm a staple of a lot of armour fleets including the famous Hellcat doctrine, I am also one of the most effective blops ships available. Hi I'm a bonused web Loki, since the proliferation of T3s I am a staple of AHAC and general armour fleets. Your post is bad (and wrong) and you should feel bad. You posted out of character dude, careful, you'll get kicked.
Its fine, the only Amarr ships I fly are Navy Slicers and Interceptors on occasion.
I mostly live in Rapiers/Huginns so I know how usefull they are (Recon V FTW) and Hurricanes. |
Archdaimon
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 00:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
I think it depends on where you live. A lot of wh alliances have the loki as their bread and butter.
Dunno if it works outside WH. |
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