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Small Orca Suggestions

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Kittamaru Gallente Democracy of Klingon Brothers Wicked Nation	Posted - 2009.09.08 14:42:00 - [1] I think the Orca needs a slight change - right now, it's a bit of jackalope of all trades: 400km3 ship hanger - moves around a few hulks or smaller barges, not bad. -----LIMIT IT TO BARGES and boost this to 500km3. I'm talking Mining Barges and Exhumers only. Not sure how you'd do this, but yeah. 50km3 ore hold + tractor bonus - not bad. This allows it to collect ore and hold it safely until an industrial ship arrives to pick it up. -----Only thing I'd suggest here is allow the ore hanger to be access by fleet or corpmates while in space, so you don't have to jet the can. - If this is already in place, I appologize - I've not got an orca YET, but I'm now ready for one :D -----I lied, one more suggestion - add a 4th high slot so you can have the mining gang links and the tractor beam. Not necessary, as the third mining link sucks (Cap reduction, wtf? Exhumers don't care about that anyay) More to come, but Class just ended :D
D'rifter Caldari Northern Star Inter-Galactic Industries PROject Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.08 15:35:00 - [2] I've found that the only link that matters a damn is the one that decreases cycle time. Extending the range of mining lasers is nice, but nobody ever asked me "why don't my strip miners reach to 17km?" after I took that one off and replaced it with a salvager. I just wish the orca could have one turret slot for a strip miner...
Jacob Mei Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.08 17:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Kittamaru I think the Orca needs a slight change - right now, it's a bit of jackalope of all trades: 400km3 ship hanger - moves around a few hulks or smaller barges, not bad. -----LIMIT IT TO BARGES and boost this to 500km3. I'm talking Mining Barges and Exhumers only. Not sure how you'd do this, but yeah. 50km3 ore hold + tractor bonus - not bad. This allows it to collect ore and hold it safely until an industrial ship arrives to pick it up. -----Only thing I'd suggest here is allow the ore hanger to be access by fleet or corpmates while in space, so you don't have to jet the can. - If this is already in place, I appologize - I've not got an orca YET, but I'm now ready for one :D -----I lied, one more suggestion - add a 4th high slot so you can have the mining gang links and the tractor beam. Not necessary, as the third mining link sucks (Cap reduction, wtf? Exhumers don't care about that anyay) More to come, but Class just ended :D Saying you have never flown the ship but suggesting a change such as what it can and cant carry in its ship bay destroys your arguement. At present, I use my orca to support my three accounts fleet. 1 character ussually in a cruiser, one in a covert ops and the third in the orca, the orca itself carrying two hulks in its hold. The reason for this is that the orca makes the perfect mobile base for probing down sites, in particular grav sites. As soon as a grav site is found I put the covert ops ship in the hold and pull out the hulk. Your idea would actually hinder what the orca is capable of doing for miners. As for your second suggestion, the corp hanger already performs this suggestion for corp mates. It would be great if it could do it for fleet mates as well though. You do realize that you can fit multiple links of the same type right? On an unrelated note, Kneel before Zod!
sHERU	Posted - 2009.09.08 18:05:00 - [4] Originally by: Jacob Mei You do realize that you can fit multiple links of the same type right? I do hope your talking about fitting them, not activating them.
Nub Sauce	Posted - 2009.09.08 18:05:00 - [5] "----Only thing I'd suggest here is allow the ore hanger to be access by fleet or corpmates while in space, so you don't have to jet the can. - If this is already in place, I appologize - I've not got an orca YET, but I'm now ready for one :D" Call me crazy, but I just dock my orca and unload the cargo to the station I plan on refining in. Why make a ton of trips in a puny hauler? And as far as limiting the bay to only barges... then why bother even having the bay? Assuming it's going to be carrying the barges for someone else to use, what are they supposed to fly in the first place? Their pod? They've got to be able to put away the ship they are in when they take out the barge, otherwise it's just stupid. Overall, the orca is an awesome ship. It doesn't need to be changed at all.
Kel Nissa	Posted - 2009.09.08 18:06:00 - [6] Quote: You do realize that you can fit multiple links of the same type right? For what purpose? :)
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2009.09.08 18:14:00 - [7] I like the Orca's flexibility as a "jackalope of all trades" and I do not like these ideas to limit that versatility. The skill you train isn't Mining Command Ship, it's Industrial Command Ship. The Orca is great for mining operations, it's also good for other stuff - let's leave it that way. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic
shady trader	Posted - 2009.09.08 20:04:00 - [8] I personally keep a salvage destroyer in my Orca for then I mission mine. Once the mining is nearly finished my main grebs the Orca form the station, gathers up the ore and loot. while this is going on my alt docks the hulk and grabs the destroyer to clear up the wrecks. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congratulated by carebears for the actions.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.09.08 20:13:00 - [9] All I want to have added to the orca is enough maint bay space for a single bs. For the life of me I can't think up any gamebreaking or unbalancing reasons for it not to be able to do this. Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.09 01:10:00 - [10] Edited by: Barbara Nichole on 09/09/2009 01:10:43 Without the 4th high slot, the maint bay change would be too draconian. The trouble with the change is this: I do not have enough high slot for the orca to salvage and tractor so I haul a salvager in the bay. Making it a barge only bay would prohibit this. Just leave the ship be if you can't add high slots.

Kittamaru Gallente Democracy of Klingon Brothers Wicked Nation	Posted - 2009.09.09 13:38:00 - [11] After flying the Orca on two mining ops, I have refined the suggestions - please re-read the first post :)
Zaknussem Intrum Industria	Posted - 2009.09.09 16:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Zeba All I want to have added to the orca is enough maint bay space for a single bs. For the life of me I can't think up any gamebreaking or unbalancing reasons for it not to be able to do this. I can: Suicide ganks in Hi-Sec by outlaw players. Sure, the Orca allows that right now with ships as large as Battlecruisers, but at least that's as far as it goes. Do you want 6 KablammoratorsÖ suddenly warping in on top of you and firing all at once? (Kablammorator: Typhoon + lots of Large Smartbombs.) The Orca is perfectly fine as it is. A fourth high slot is OP, a larger Ship Maintenance Bay is not gonna happen and as for the Ore Bay, just have your players dump it in the corp hanger and transfer it over to the Ore Hold yourself. Zeba: You asked me in another thread to link to a devblog or post to back up my words about the Ship Maintenance Bay. I spent 30 minutes last night combing through various devblogs to try to find what you ask, without success. I am 99% certain that CCP stated that the Ship Maintenance Bay was at this size to prevent Battleships from fitting in it, but until I can prove that, you will just have to take my word for it. I also recall that CCP are planning a ship that is basically a flying hangar, a Freighter-type ship that only has a Ship Maintenance Bay and no/very small cargohold. My guess is that the ship would have a SMB in the 900.000m3 range, but don't be surprised if you won't be able to access the ships being carried while in space, to stop suicide gankers from having a wild party.
Lyn Kishin	Posted - 2009.09.09 17:23:00 - [13] Just a note to the OP, you can stick an assembled frig (cov-ops ect, anything under 40,000m3)) in the orcas corp hangar (though it isn't accessable from space I don't think) that allows you to cram 2 hulks in the ship maint bay.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.09.09 17:57:00 - [14] Originally by: Zaknussem Originally by: Zeba All I want to have added to the orca is enough maint bay space for a single bs. For the life of me I can't think up any gamebreaking or unbalancing reasons for it not to be able to do this. I can: Suicide ganks in Hi-Sec by outlaw players. Sure, the Orca allows that right now with ships as large as Battlecruisers, but at least that's as far as it goes. Do you want 6 KablammoratorsÖ suddenly warping in on top of you and firing all at once? (Kablammorator: Typhoon + lots of Large Smartbombs.) That would take one orca six trips when all that would be needed would be 1 alt with the absolute minimum skill to drop the fitted phoon at the safespot so the pirates can enter them and warp to target. The only reason orcas are used as pirate carriers for high sec ganks is that they can fit a bunch of smaller gank ships in one ship and save the hassle of dropping them one by one at a safe risking someone probing them out and taking them. So no, having a single bs in the orca maint bay would not really boost suicide ganks by pirates in my opinion. As far as ccp comments the only one I remember is that they said they have no current plans on letting you fit a single bs in it. For ccp thats a big open book comment that could mean anything. Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal
David Grogan Gallente Final Conflict UK	Posted - 2009.09.10 11:20:00 - [15] Originally by: D'rifter I just wish the orca could have one turret slot for a strip miner... no cos isk farmers would uber macro miners in the form of orca with strips if that was allowed SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P
David Grogan Gallente Final Conflict UK	Posted - 2009.09.10 11:22:00 - [16] Edited by: David Grogan on 10/09/2009 11:22:19 Originally by: Jacob Mei You do realize that you can fit multiple links of the same type right? link boost effects dont stack so using 2 or more of the same link has no more effect than just using one does SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P
Kittamaru Gallente Democracy of Klingon Brothers Wicked Nation	Posted - 2009.09.10 13:50:00 - [17] I made a few slight changes, as well as comments :) Re-read first post plz :)
Ydyp Ieva Caldari Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2009.09.10 13:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Kittamaru I made a few slight changes, as well as comments :) Re-read first post plz :) the agility is just fine, if it should be changed it should be lowered not increased. At least give the industrial transport ships a reason to be there and be used as haulers instead of the orca. For changed at the cargo hold, I would say decrease the cargo hold a bit. We already have gotten an ore bay for free at the moment. ---------------------------------- None of yet!
Kittamaru Gallente Democracy of Klingon Brothers Wicked Nation	Posted - 2009.09.10 14:34:00 - [19] Yeah, but with the "meh" ness of the mining links (excluding the cycle time reduction), the Orca is pretty much a giant, mobile, secure jetcan with engines. No exhumer worth his salt is worried about capacitor or range really... an extra 2km is worthless. Now, if they boost it so at max it grants, say, a 5-10km range increase, it'd matter. Mining at 25km compared to 15km would be wonderful. Hence the agility suggestion :) Now, if the Orca is supposed to take it's true role as a mining command ship, I think it needs a good looking over. Why not something like this? Cut the cargo bay down to a few km3, increase the ship maint array to 800km3, but it can only hold mining barges, exhumers, or ships with mining bonuses (Frigates, Cruisers). Give it an extra high and low slot (tractor beam slot and utility slot). Finally, allow the Orca to "deploy" via a miniature industrial core that uses no fuel. Takes 30 seconds to deploy, ship is immobile, and takes 60 seconds to repack to move. ORCA - Industrial Command Ship Cargo Bay: 5,000m3 Ship Maint Array: 800,000m3 - only able to fit Barges, Exhumers, Frigates, and Cruisers Ore Bay - 50,000m3 High Slots - 4 Med Slots - 4 Low Slots - 3 Turrets/Launchers - None Rig Slots - 3 Drone Bay - 100m3 Drone Bandwidth - 50 Mbit/sec Everything else structure wise is the same Industrial Command Ship Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to effectiveness of Mining Foreman Gang Links per level 5% bonus to agility per level Role Bonus: 500% bonus to survey scanner range 99% reduction in CPU need for Gang Link module Able to use 3 Gang Links at one time Able to Deploy When Deployed: Takes 30 seconds to Deploy Immobile while deployed Takes 120 seconds to Repack to move. 500% bonus to Ore Hold (showing the effect of deploying) 250% bonus to Tractor Beam range 100% bonus to Tractor Beam velocity CANNOT REPACK until Ore Hold is under 50km3 Voila! A ship that provides decent bonuses to mining barges and exhumers, can also protect them from light threats with it's drones, but has to deploy to be fully useful in its role. This also removes the threat of it being used by suicide pirates. What will this do? Creates a ship that can effectively move around a small mining fleet (4x hulks for example) Creates a ship capable of holding a large amount of ore in storage, allowing time for industrial ships to move it to safe space. Creates a ship able to effectively "command" mining ops, utilizing good fleet bonuses to increase mining efficiency AND giving the option to spread out a little and collect the ore via a tractor beam. Presents a risk vs reward situation - the ship is immobile for a minute while it repacks to move. It cannot do this until someone comes to empty it's ore hold, and it can't simply jettison all that ore into space, as one jetcan won't hold it.
Neme Nishta	Posted - 2009.09.10 16:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Kittamaru Now, if they boost it so at max it grants, say, a 5-10km range increase, it'd matter. Mining at 25km compared to 15km would be wonderful. With Industrial Command Ships 4, Warfare Link 4, and a Mining Foreman Mindlink, I mine at 22km. The distance link is extremely worthwhile.

Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2009.09.10 17:15:00 - [21] Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 10/09/2009 17:15:58 To overcome the limit of 400k m3, and the BS issue, add a second ship hold, note the word "hold" and not bay. Since CCP has added the ability to add additional holds for only fuel or ore, and more to come they hinted, what about a ship only bay of 400k m3 that is not a maintinance bay, can only hold 400k m3 of ships. Then the pilot can shift ships to the bay as needed. The Dev blog never told us if there was a programatic limitation. A good, and very conservative guess would be eight possible holds, that could be assigned to any number of things. The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
Shinon Asahina Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.09.10 18:59:00 - [22] The only thing I agree with is that the Orca should be a lot more agile than it is currently. Combat command ships are only BC-sized, so I don't know why the Orca has to fly like an asteroid being an Industrial Command ship.
Saju Somtaaw Gallente Diiamond Heavy Industries MagiTech Corp	Posted - 2009.09.10 18:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Kittamaru ... ORCA - Industrial Command Ship Cargo Bay: 5,000m3 Ship Maint Array: 800,000m3 - only able to fit Barges, Exhumers, Frigates, and Cruisers ... Presents a risk vs reward situation - the ship is immobile for a minute while it repacks to move. It cannot do this until someone comes to empty it's ore hold, and it can't simply jettison all that ore into space, as one jetcan won't hold it.[/quote Keep your hands off my my cargo and ship bays. The Orca is a MULTI-ROLE ship. One of its roles is mining command ship, but it's also a mini freighter, and a rigged ship hauler. I say its fine as it is now, leave it. ---- --- ---
Kittamaru Gallente Democracy of Klingon Brothers Wicked Nation	Posted - 2009.09.11 01:16:00 - [24] As a multi role ship it's fine - it's still got the corp hanger able to hold it's weight. It doesn't however, really need a huge cargo bay AND a huge ore bay AND a corp hanger.


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