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Buying Out EBANK Accounts at 20%

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cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.09.10 01:00:00 - [1] If anyone is interested in selling their EBANK bank accounts to me read on. EBANK currently has about 800B in assets, yet requires 2T in assets to pay back all its customers. EBANK has stated that accounts will probably remain closed for about a year. Calculations: 1. If EBANK uses its 800B in assets it needs to return 8% per month compounded over the next year to pay you back. At present EBANK earns about 5-7% on their investments per month, meaning that to get the customers money back will take around 20 months. 2. If you take 20% of the account value from me, I will instantly cash you out. To get ALL your money back from 20% you need to earn a return of 14.5% per month over the next year. If you can make a greater return than that you will get your cash back much quicker. Now, the question you have to ask is: Do you want to wait a year to MAYBE get your money back, or do you want the cash now and earn it back yourself. Payout mechanism 1. I will buy blocks of 100M ISK (no odd or lower amounts)from EBANK accounts, up to a maximum of 10B (EBANK account balance) for a fixed payout of 20% 2. The money will be transferred to my account (Cosmoray), and when I see the money transferred I will payout in game. Happy for an auditor to verify my EBANK accounts and post that I have paid out. 3. Post here how much you wish to sell, so it can be tracked The price I am offering is fixed and MY price. If your are not interested no need to comment on value as there are other EBANK account threads. If anyone is looking to invest in this type of scheme, send me an eve-mail and I can make up a mechanism or an IPO for this.
Kushan Caldari Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.09.10 01:11:00 - [2] Interesting. This is either a great long term investment for you, or you're about to **** away a lot of isk :p
Melinda Bettin	Posted - 2009.09.10 02:22:00 - [3] I hope EBack realizes that lack of interest on this aweful, raw deal doesn't indicate people don't want to get their 50% that's still in EBank. In fact, they do want their monies and this is just a terrible offer. That's all.
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2009.09.10 04:02:00 - [4] Why dont you make it 50% Cosmo? Its easy money why be so greedy.
Buddy Revelle	Posted - 2009.09.10 04:06:00 - [5] Didn't you default on a 100b loan to EBANK? If you buy other ppl's account money won't EBANK just keep it and not let you have it back ?
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.09.10 04:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Buddy Revelle Didn't you default on a 100b loan to EBANK? If you buy other ppl's account money won't EBANK just keep it and not let you have it back ? Firstly I haven't defaulted on ANY loan to anyone. Happy for EBANK to confirm that. Originally by: Athre Why dont you make it 50% Cosmo? Its easy money why be so greedy. Why would I offer 50% for a potential 100% return in 1 year. That only returns me 8% per month and I carry a huge risk. It all goes on the assumption that you can make 1.2T from 0.8T. Huge ask and my sums say you can't do it in a year. EBANK haven't put any proposals on the table and I am not willing to risk a huge amount of my capital in an already failed business.
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.09.10 04:20:00 - [7] Originally by: Athre Why dont you make it 50% Cosmo? Its easy money why be so greedy. Isn't it a bit improper for the CEO of Ebank to make this comment when someone is trying to buy Ebanks debt? cosmoray: Some may feel that 20% is too low, although 50% is definitely too high. Perhaps you'll be open to individual negotiation?
SetrakDark	Posted - 2009.09.10 04:22:00 - [8] Originally by: Athre Why dont you make it 50% Cosmo? Its easy money why be so greedy. It's far from easy money.
Tekota legion industries ltd Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2009.09.10 04:26:00 - [9] Originally by: Athre Why dont you make it 50% Cosmo? Its easy money why be so greedy. My inner troll would like to say "why don't you make it 100%?" I do feel a bit dirty for releasing afore mentioned inner troll but your post was a little on the trollish side (aka the "you started it, ner ner ner ner ner" defence). Cosmo, a few months back when I had significant sums in EBank I would have probably taken an offer like this up, maybe not at this rate but would probably go for the best on the table whatever it is. That said, conversely, if I were in your shoes and considering such an investment I would admittedly struggle to value deposits at much greater than 20% myself.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.09.10 04:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Solisk Originally by: Athre Why dont you make it 50% Cosmo? Its easy money why be so greedy. Isn't it a bit improper for the CEO of Ebank to make this comment when someone is trying to buy Ebanks debt? cosmoray: Some may feel that 20% is too low, although 50% is definitely too high. Perhaps you'll be open to individual negotiation? To Ray, One of your possible solutions is to have the market set a value on accounts, so individuals can buy the debts and release equity for account holders. Do you really think it is constructive to have EB board members voice their opinions on the subject. Nice way to set expectations of customers, whether they are real or not.
Kitchie Gallente Vikramaditya	Posted - 2009.09.10 05:17:00 - [11] Despite cosmo's postings about how EBANK should wind up and pay out all depositors with what's left, this looks to me like a vote of confidence from cosmoray about EBANK's future. cosmoray would not be making this offer unless he felt that it will be profitable for him and as it looks like there's no chance that EBANK will wind up, he seems to be banking on the fact that he will get 100% back in 1 year's time, giving him a potential monthly return of 15% (rough figure). A risk - yes but a nice potential return
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.09.10 05:24:00 - [12] Originally by: cosmoray To Ray, One of your possible solutions is to have the market set a value on accounts, so individuals can buy the debts and release equity for account holders. Do you really think it is constructive to have EB board members voice their opinions on the subject. Nice way to set expectations of customers, whether they are real or not. To cosmoray, I'll make this clear to you and everyone else. The bank's board and staff members are more than welcome to voice and share their opinion at any time on any matter. Whilst your suggestions, ideas and criticisms are actually welcome; your descent into condescending, self-serving one-liners and snide asides is ultimately futile and only indicates your intentions aren't for a resolution but rather some meaningless forum drama. Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah

CCP Applebabe	Posted - 2009.09.10 05:32:00 - [13] Moved to " Want Ads & Trades ". Applebabe Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

Dzil Caldari Sausage Banking	Posted - 2009.09.10 06:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Athre Why dont you make it 50% Cosmo? Its easy money why be so greedy. Is that the ebank official offer? I thought not. Perhaps it would be more constructive for ebank to kick off the auction thread for these accounts, rather than troll independent threads that are emerging due to ebank's slow response to market demands. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Mme Pinkerton Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.10 06:21:00 - [15] Originally by: cosmoray Do you want to wait a year to MAYBE get your money back, or do you want the cash now and earn it back yourself. Offers like these are hurting the credibility of your doom-saying statements (which - personally - I fully endorse). Maybe you just want to talk down the value of EBANK accounts to make some easy money? Originally by: cosmoray The fact is that EBANK have stated they want to return the money in a year. To do that they need to earn 9.5% across their ENTIRE asset base EVERY month and then COMPOUND it. Their best efforts are only returning 5-7% (Titan and loans will not return more). Liquidating seems to return 40% now. 100% in 1 year is a joke It can't be done in 1 year. There I said it. Investors should be aware that EBANK is still considering a partial liquidation option (and that cosmoray is lobbying for it very vocally on the MD forums) which would probably rather pay out in the 30-40% area than the 20% you are being offered right now. If EBANK would allow for partial liquidation within 1-2 months (after this span of time most customers will have written their ISK off and will not care enough to continue pressuring EBANK into providing such an option), cosmoray could easily make a killing. " Credit is the economic judgement on the morality of a man. "
Dzil Caldari Sausage Banking	Posted - 2009.09.10 06:37:00 - [16] Edited by: Dzil on 10/09/2009 06:40:02 Piling on: The "buy it now" discount is directly related to what you would loan money to ebank for, at this point. We can relate these figures back to the effective rates individual trusted members of MD typically ask for in their bonds. Currently, 4% flat is a pretty solid rate. 5-7% is secured but not AAA. 8-10% is risky. 11%+ indicates either no or poor history. These are monthly percentages, which while higher than real life accounts for the relative ease of making isk in EVE, natural inflation, and the generally riskier environment EVE's lawlessness makes. ON TO THE MATH: Here's some benchmarks to go by: 10% buyout: 21.1% monthly growth rate (General Newbold) 20% buyout: 14.4% growth rate (Fresh high risk IPO) 30% buyout: 10.5% growth rate (fresh high risk bond) 40% buyout: 7.95% growth rate (upper mid risk bond) 50% buyout: 5.95% growth rate (lower mid risk bond) 60% buyout: 4.35% growth rate (low risk bond) More precise buyout characteristics: 62.4% buyout: 4% monthly compound interest for 1 year. (Kwint/Cosmo bond rates) 83.6% buyout: 1.5% monthly compound interest. (Former ebank interest rate) Now, the part that iritates me about Athre's post is she slams Cosmo for not willingly taking on ebank's liabilities at a more creditworthy rate. Who's fault is that, really? If I just finished a scam taking half the money in an IPO, and came back asking for more credit at 14.4% interest, most people would tell me I was out of my ****ing mind. Athre tops this by claiming ebank deserves credit at the 5.95% interest level Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.09.10 13:05:00 - [17] I think this is a pretty much dead idea. EBANK staff wants the market to pay customers a value that is higher than the ACTUAL assets in EBANK at present. Nuts! It is also clear that the market rate is not 20%, and that is what I could afford and set the risk level. Offer is officially withdrawn, so I won't be buying up ANY accounts in EBANK.
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2009.09.10 21:40:00 - [18] Originally by: Dzil If I just finished a scam taking half the money in an IPO, and came back asking for more credit at 14.4% interest, most people would tell me I was out of my ****ing mind. Athre tops this by claiming ebank deserves credit at the 5.95% interest level 1 - This is Slanderous, I personally took NOTHING. 2 - I believe our customers deserve better than the pittance Cosmo was offering. I said nothing about loaning the bank any ISK at any percentage. I believed Cosmo was offering an option even if he was beating the horse pretty damn hard.
Judith Baker	Posted - 2009.09.11 13:24:00 - [19] Who's EBank?
B1FF	Posted - 2009.09.11 21:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Judith Baker Who's EBank? The longest running scam in EvE. Ostensibly they're a bank but every year or two a bunch of the money dissapears along with one of the principles.
Rotnac Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.09.12 05:32:00 - [21] 20% seemed pretty reasonable to me. I've got no accounts at EBank, otherwise I might have taken him up on the offer. As the chart above indicates, this would have resulted in a 14% monthly return, which seemed relatively reasonable given the task EBank has in front of it. Also - there's always the possibility of him holding out for awhile to negotiate a partial repayment and wiping out of debt.
Leneerra Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.13 07:35:00 - [22] As an account holder I think 20% is a pittance, but I agree it is the best availeble offer at this time. so rather than complain ebanks should look at themselves to find why the offer is so low. correction of facts wich may drop increse demand for this at the stated 20%: -Ebank has stated the 1 year term is no longer valid i may be 3 -Ebank has stated they will not do a full liquidation.

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