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bye bye DUAL MWD

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Terra Sky	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:10:00 - [121] Originally by: DJTheBaron have any of you ever tried to travel 30+ jumps with nothing but a single mwd on your battleship? (Without instajumps) Eve is slow enough, i travel a hell of a lot in eve, but i even find 3ks in a frigate cna be painfully slow on long trips. The whole mwd combat question, fair enough, then nerf overly tracking/range/damage boosted sniping battleships at the same time, otherwise we have no way to kill them. The whole mwd travel question, wel if you dont want people using multiple drives to travel, disable instajumps too. Tracking/Range is already nerfed quite well. The Tech2 Tracking Enhancer is supposed to give 15% range and 15% tracking. After you equip the 7'th module you will notice that you only get like 6% more range and tracking. Thats the standard stacking nerf.
Terra Sky	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:10:00 - [122] Originally by: DJTheBaron have any of you ever tried to travel 30+ jumps with nothing but a single mwd on your battleship? (Without instajumps) Eve is slow enough, i travel a hell of a lot in eve, but i even find 3ks in a frigate cna be painfully slow on long trips. The whole mwd combat question, fair enough, then nerf overly tracking/range/damage boosted sniping battleships at the same time, otherwise we have no way to kill them. The whole mwd travel question, wel if you dont want people using multiple drives to travel, disable instajumps too. Tracking/Range is already nerfed quite well. The Tech2 Tracking Enhancer is supposed to give 15% range and 15% tracking. After you equip the 7'th module you will notice that you only get like 6% more range and tracking. Thats the standard stacking nerf.
vyperpit	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:15:00 - [123] To be honest i can't see the bif fuss about this being kept or lost. both ways there are counters to each type of loadout. i used to adore my Dual MWD crow it was great i knew its flaws and i knew its strenghts when i got poeple complain to me it was hard to kill i would just smile and carry on my way. every thing can be killed and most loadouts have 1 or more weaknesses. all in all i think this i will make combat a litte more intresting. Keep it or nerf it, its all the same change comes and change goes its what you do while its around that counts. ---- Fair Fighting Quote stolen from Waagaa Ktlehr who borrowed it from ??? "If you end up in a fair fight, you planned it wrong." (Ehm yeah, or CCP ****ed with the scanner again..)
vyperpit	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:15:00 - [124] To be honest i can't see the bif fuss about this being kept or lost. both ways there are counters to each type of loadout. i used to adore my Dual MWD crow it was great i knew its flaws and i knew its strenghts when i got poeple complain to me it was hard to kill i would just smile and carry on my way. every thing can be killed and most loadouts have 1 or more weaknesses. all in all i think this i will make combat a litte more intresting. Keep it or nerf it, its all the same change comes and change goes its what you do while its around that counts. ---- Fair Fighting Quote stolen from Waagaa Ktlehr who borrowed it from ??? "If you end up in a fair fight, you planned it wrong." (Ehm yeah, or CCP ****ed with the scanner again..)
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:18:00 - [125] if sacfiricing offencive and defencive ability for speed is not going to be allowed anymore, why should super extreme range that sacfirices those also there is no way for a single 250k sniper with a mwd to be caught by any ship with a single mwd but if the devs objected to duel drives so much, surley they should have abolished it long before people start using it as their only way of gameplay and spent so much skill time on them __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:18:00 - [126] if sacfiricing offencive and defencive ability for speed is not going to be allowed anymore, why should super extreme range that sacfirices those also there is no way for a single 250k sniper with a mwd to be caught by any ship with a single mwd but if the devs objected to duel drives so much, surley they should have abolished it long before people start using it as their only way of gameplay and spent so much skill time on them __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
darth solo	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:24:00 - [127] Originally by: Barth3zzzNL Oh yippe travelling is going to suck even more... well, u have the ppl with no spines that use fleets of dual MWD ravens(no risk), to blame for this. i feckin hate dual MWDs, u wouldnt b less of a man using 5 stabs. d solo.
darth solo	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:24:00 - [128] Originally by: Barth3zzzNL Oh yippe travelling is going to suck even more... well, u have the ppl with no spines that use fleets of dual MWD ravens(no risk), to blame for this. i feckin hate dual MWDs, u wouldnt b less of a man using 5 stabs. d solo.
Hakera	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:26:00 - [129] Originally by: DJTheBaron there is no way for a single 250k sniper with a mwd to be caught by any ship with a single mwd my cheetah has no trouble with catching snipers! (though admitadly its takes a few minutes to get to em and provide a warp in for the group) tbh in all my combat - ive only seen snipers a few times. The extreme range, dmg and tracking just doesn't make them viable most of the time. Quote: but if the devs objected to duel drives so much, surley they should have abolished it long before people start using it as their only way of gameplay and spent so much skill time on them what skill? Last I checked, the mwd has only one skill related to it which most people by now have at lvl 4 if not 5 (leaving the base speed modifying skills alone which most people again have at least lvl 4) Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:26:00 - [130] Originally by: DJTheBaron there is no way for a single 250k sniper with a mwd to be caught by any ship with a single mwd my cheetah has no trouble with catching snipers! (though admitadly its takes a few minutes to get to em and provide a warp in for the group) tbh in all my combat - ive only seen snipers a few times. The extreme range, dmg and tracking just doesn't make them viable most of the time. Quote: but if the devs objected to duel drives so much, surley they should have abolished it long before people start using it as their only way of gameplay and spent so much skill time on them what skill? Last I checked, the mwd has only one skill related to it which most people by now have at lvl 4 if not 5 (leaving the base speed modifying skills alone which most people again have at least lvl 4) Dumbledore - Eve-I.com

DJTheBaron	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:32:00 - [131] people who trained mwd and ab to lv 5, people who trained galante cruiser to lv5 to use 2x mwd with its ship bonus, people who onyl trained al the nessary skills for a raven because they will only fly fast ships? __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
DJTheBaron	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:32:00 - [132] people who trained mwd and ab to lv 5, people who trained galante cruiser to lv5 to use 2x mwd with its ship bonus, people who onyl trained al the nessary skills for a raven because they will only fly fast ships? __________________________________________________ Scum, your all scum.
TWD	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:35:00 - [133] Does anyone know the reason why its nerfed btw? dual mwd on any ship is easily counterable, and gimps your ship alot.
TWD	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:35:00 - [134] Does anyone know the reason why its nerfed btw? dual mwd on any ship is easily counterable, and gimps your ship alot.
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:37:00 - [135] Originally by: DJTheBaron people who trained mwd and ab to lv 5, people who trained galante cruiser to lv5 to use 2x mwd with its ship bonus, people who onyl trained al the nessary skills for a raven because they will only fly fast ships? if you want to fly fast ship go frigs or minmatar ships, its very simple B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:37:00 - [136] Originally by: DJTheBaron people who trained mwd and ab to lv 5, people who trained galante cruiser to lv5 to use 2x mwd with its ship bonus, people who onyl trained al the nessary skills for a raven because they will only fly fast ships? if you want to fly fast ship go frigs or minmatar ships, its very simple B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Vigilant	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:52:00 - [137] Well, I will throw in my two isk... I don't have problem either way....Dual MWD sucks down the cap/grid/cpu so bad....usually u can't mount much more on most ships....less than a BS... Why ? some people ask..... I will give my opinion...Too many cry babies like most MMO's...to many people seeing/hearing about a idea (i.e. dual MWD Raven)...and using the hell out of it.... Thus too many people whinning... It will suck when avoiding Gate Gankers...or doing normal travel...but, I guess we don't have a choice...
Vigilant	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:52:00 - [138] Well, I will throw in my two isk... I don't have problem either way....Dual MWD sucks down the cap/grid/cpu so bad....usually u can't mount much more on most ships....less than a BS... Why ? some people ask..... I will give my opinion...Too many cry babies like most MMO's...to many people seeing/hearing about a idea (i.e. dual MWD Raven)...and using the hell out of it.... Thus too many people whinning... It will suck when avoiding Gate Gankers...or doing normal travel...but, I guess we don't have a choice...
Arvalen Eno	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:58:00 - [139] Originally by: DJTheBaron if sacfiricing offencive and defencive ability for speed is not going to be allowed anymore Speed is the best defense, so the whole "omg I'm sacrifying defense here" cry is bull, really. So is the sacrifice of offense in quite a few cases, already discussed. (missile ships don't sacrifice anything. ECM ships/scramblers don't sacrifice anything, either) Let's be honest here, very few in this thread are crying the nerf is about to happen because they believe it's bad for the game on the whole. Most do it because they feel someone is taking their "I win" button away. "Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs."
Arvalen Eno	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:58:00 - [140] Originally by: DJTheBaron if sacfiricing offencive and defencive ability for speed is not going to be allowed anymore Speed is the best defense, so the whole "omg I'm sacrifying defense here" cry is bull, really. So is the sacrifice of offense in quite a few cases, already discussed. (missile ships don't sacrifice anything. ECM ships/scramblers don't sacrifice anything, either) Let's be honest here, very few in this thread are crying the nerf is about to happen because they believe it's bad for the game on the whole. Most do it because they feel someone is taking their "I win" button away. "Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs."

Waagaa Ktlehr	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:59:00 - [141] Dual MWD Ravens/Temps/Apocs are easy to counter. Think sig radius going ballistic and long range turrets... ohwell :) ------------------------------------------ I am a love machine, feeding my fantasy, give me a kiss or three, have fun!
Waagaa Ktlehr	Posted - 2004.10.21 14:59:00 - [142] Dual MWD Ravens/Temps/Apocs are easy to counter. Think sig radius going ballistic and long range turrets... ohwell :) ------------------------------------------ I am a love machine, feeding my fantasy, give me a kiss or three, have fun!
RUNYOUFOOLS	Posted - 2004.10.21 15:15:00 - [143] Edited by: RUNYOUFOOLS on 21/10/2004 15:57:11 Edited by: RUNYOUFOOLS on 21/10/2004 15:22:22 mwd + mwd = nope you get a msg like this : 2004.10.21 14:48:08notifyThe 100MN MicroWarpdrive I cannot be activated as it requires access to resources which 1 modules of the same purpose are already using up. Ab + Ab = yep, they run fine AB + MWD = very odd, if you run the ab first then you cant get the mwd to work, as you get the msg as above. but if you use the mwd first then the ab it works, but only for 1 use of the mwd , but the ab keep's going( tryed useing the mwd and ab on auto and manual, no can do, even if you stagger them so the timeings just right as one shuts down you start the other, it still dont work ) Ab + Ab + MWD = same as above, you can run both abs fine till you try to use the mwd, then the dreaded msg come's up but you can use mwd + ab + ab ( in that order , but the mwd cuts out after 1 cycle as normal). EDIT, all testing was on a tempest, gonna have a go at frigs and cruisers next, see if they are the same. EDIT 2, yup frigs and cruisers are just the same, over sized ab's + mwds still kinda work, but the mwd still cuts out Everyone crying for a change of rule confesses: I trained the wrong thing, now change the rules because i'm a dumbass.Thats true
RUNYOUFOOLS	Posted - 2004.10.21 15:15:00 - [144] Edited by: RUNYOUFOOLS on 21/10/2004 15:57:11 Edited by: RUNYOUFOOLS on 21/10/2004 15:22:22 mwd + mwd = nope you get a msg like this : 2004.10.21 14:48:08notifyThe 100MN MicroWarpdrive I cannot be activated as it requires access to resources which 1 modules of the same purpose are already using up. Ab + Ab = yep, they run fine AB + MWD = very odd, if you run the ab first then you cant get the mwd to work, as you get the msg as above. but if you use the mwd first then the ab it works, but only for 1 use of the mwd , but the ab keep's going( tryed useing the mwd and ab on auto and manual, no can do, even if you stagger them so the timeings just right as one shuts down you start the other, it still dont work ) Ab + Ab + MWD = same as above, you can run both abs fine till you try to use the mwd, then the dreaded msg come's up but you can use mwd + ab + ab ( in that order , but the mwd cuts out after 1 cycle as normal). EDIT, all testing was on a tempest, gonna have a go at frigs and cruisers next, see if they are the same. EDIT 2, yup frigs and cruisers are just the same, over sized ab's + mwds still kinda work, but the mwd still cuts out Everyone crying for a change of rule confesses: I trained the wrong thing, now change the rules because i'm a dumbass.Thats true
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2004.10.21 16:42:00 - [145] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 21/10/2004 16:46:12 Ok, I think the next question to ask is: can you fit 2 x oversize AB on ships and still get viable results (i.e. have grid left over for other necessary stuff)? If yes, then that is next on the nerf list. Haven't tried 2 x 100mn ab cruisers yet myself and I don't have Eve handy right now, so can't comment more (yet).
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2004.10.21 16:42:00 - [146] Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 21/10/2004 16:46:12 Ok, I think the next question to ask is: can you fit 2 x oversize AB on ships and still get viable results (i.e. have grid left over for other necessary stuff)? If yes, then that is next on the nerf list. Haven't tried 2 x 100mn ab cruisers yet myself and I don't have Eve handy right now, so can't comment more (yet).
Papolytic	Posted - 2004.10.21 17:10:00 - [147] I think its time to remove armor tanking, shield tanking, hardeners, cap rechargers, relays, guns, missiles and weapons of all sorts. Lets be fair about this, and a suitable message can be displayed if you even think about activating a module on the banned list (which is every module in the game). The message could read: "You are using a module that requires a resource that is no longer available. Please dock and strip all fittings or they'll be removed by the Fittings Agent at the gate". This seems fair and balanced(not unlike FOX TV), and doesn't leave shuttles at the bottom of the stack anymore. But: They are pretty quick little ships, so don't forget to change shuttle speeds to be capped at 110m/s. I hope you'll consider these imperative changes, because the good news is that no one will have anything to complain about anymore (literally). Papol PS: And think of all the high quality station time you'll have, with that spiffy new Shiva UI. I suspect all the fitting screen problems in the last Shiva patch will pretty much vanish along with the banned modules.
Papolytic	Posted - 2004.10.21 17:10:00 - [148] I think its time to remove armor tanking, shield tanking, hardeners, cap rechargers, relays, guns, missiles and weapons of all sorts. Lets be fair about this, and a suitable message can be displayed if you even think about activating a module on the banned list (which is every module in the game). The message could read: "You are using a module that requires a resource that is no longer available. Please dock and strip all fittings or they'll be removed by the Fittings Agent at the gate". This seems fair and balanced(not unlike FOX TV), and doesn't leave shuttles at the bottom of the stack anymore. But: They are pretty quick little ships, so don't forget to change shuttle speeds to be capped at 110m/s. I hope you'll consider these imperative changes, because the good news is that no one will have anything to complain about anymore (literally). Papol PS: And think of all the high quality station time you'll have, with that spiffy new Shiva UI. I suspect all the fitting screen problems in the last Shiva patch will pretty much vanish along with the banned modules.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.10.21 17:25:00 - [149] For several months now most of my skill training has gone towards navigation skills. Restrictions on the number of warp drives fit is rediculous. Some characters have focused on damage, some on speed, some on engineering. But apparently all they want us to do is tank up and press f1-fx...which is very boring btw.
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.10.21 17:25:00 - [150] For several months now most of my skill training has gone towards navigation skills. Restrictions on the number of warp drives fit is rediculous. Some characters have focused on damage, some on speed, some on engineering. But apparently all they want us to do is tank up and press f1-fx...which is very boring btw.



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