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IceDane
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Posted - 2009.09.12 21:52:00 -
[1]
And please, do not tell me I can't =(
My corporation is relatively new and we're starting a free for all war exercise to teach people the ropes.
I am currently one of the strongest combat player in my corporation, having researched heavily and tried on a multitude of different fits, done ****loads of eft warrioring(See, I'm new and I already know that term!) - well, just done my homework in general.
However, one corpmate of mine is flying a passive HAM raven and before it starts(which is monday or so), I asked him to duel to see if he would possibly be someone I should be on the look out for. I used this fitting:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/25692-Brutix-Neutron-Shield-gank.html
Except with Ions as I do not have the skills to fit neutrons(I might once I get Engineering 5 and advanced weapon upgrades in the near future, but I digress).
It took a couple of minutes, but he got through my shields, but he was fit extremely well against my damage and my vollies of 800 or so were only doing 200. We stopped, but he would have ****d me. For good measure, I asked him to let me see how it would go after I got through his shields, and lo and behold, I took half his armor out in a few seconds.
How should I be taking this guy on? HAMs can switch out damage types which makes fitting hardeners for the specific type somewhat useless. Is there any way I fit something that is just resilient enough, yet able to put out enough dps, to tear through his passive tank?
Really, appreciate all advice.
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Rilwar
BlackStar Industrial
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Posted - 2009.09.12 22:20:00 -
[2]
Originally by: IceDane And please, do not tell me I can't =(
My corporation is relatively new and we're starting a free for all war exercise to teach people the ropes.
I am currently one of the strongest combat player in my corporation, having researched heavily and tried on a multitude of different fits, done ****loads of eft warrioring(See, I'm new and I already know that term!) - well, just done my homework in general.
However, one corpmate of mine is flying a passive HAM raven and before it starts(which is monday or so), I asked him to duel to see if he would possibly be someone I should be on the look out for. I used this fitting:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/25692-Brutix-Neutron-Shield-gank.html
Except with Ions as I do not have the skills to fit neutrons(I might once I get Engineering 5 and advanced weapon upgrades in the near future, but I digress).
It took a couple of minutes, but he got through my shields, but he was fit extremely well against my damage and my vollies of 800 or so were only doing 200. We stopped, but he would have ****d me. For good measure, I asked him to let me see how it would go after I got through his shields, and lo and behold, I took half his armor out in a few seconds.
How should I be taking this guy on? HAMs can switch out damage types which makes fitting hardeners for the specific type somewhat useless. Is there any way I fit something that is just resilient enough, yet able to put out enough dps, to tear through his passive tank?
Really, appreciate all advice.
....
HAM Raven?
You can't take out a Battleship using non-bonused Cruiser weapons with a Battlecruiser?
I think the problem is you >_> -------------------------------------------------
Mitnal was here. |
IceDane
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Posted - 2009.09.12 22:24:00 -
[3]
Sorry, see edit.
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Kovorix
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Posted - 2009.09.12 22:41:00 -
[4]
Originally by: IceDane Sorry, see edit.
Aahhh. First of all, a passive drake is a very poor pvp fit and is only difficult to beat because its a consensual 1v1 without any of the elements of actual eve pvp.
That aside, if you want to beat him, his dps is probably very poor, so use an active tank, with 2x MAR, DC II, EANM II, MFS II in the lows. Use a cap booster. Fit electrons/ions depending on what you can fit. Use hammerheads.
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IceDane
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Posted - 2009.09.12 22:54:00 -
[5]
Thank you very much. =) I will definitely try that out. But holy ****, I now understand why the drake's passive tank is legendary.
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ServantOfMask
Minmatar Foundation Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.09.13 00:39:00 -
[6]
Edited by: ServantOfMask on 13/09/2009 00:40:00 your choice of ship isn't necessarily the greatest...
a HAM drake is severely limited in range, stay out of HAM range and he does drone damage only. maybe try a myrmidon with 650mm arties + EMP (should net you an optimal outside HAM range) and a disruptor , obligatory mwd and drones to taste. add in as much tank as you feel you need to survive the odd HAM salvo hitting you and the constant drone dps, fill the rest with a caldari racial jammer and gyrostabs.
just a rough idea to really **** with a HAM Drake, using a gallante bc.
edit: i really should have read the entire OP.. tsk tsk me "Misina Arlath
GIRL = Guy In Real Life MMORPG = Many Men Online Role Playing Girls." |
Leather Jack
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.13 05:36:00 -
[7]
What is the purpose of your duels? Is it to get to know ships or to learn pvp?
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Conwakleferibok
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Posted - 2009.09.13 06:41:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Conwakleferibok on 13/09/2009 06:42:33 If you have to use a brutix then at least use Anti EM medium drones (Infiltrators).
If you dont, use a harbinger.
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Grut
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.13 08:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Conwakleferibok Edited by: Conwakleferibok on 13/09/2009 06:42:33 If you have to use a brutix then at least use Anti EM medium drones (Infiltrators).
If you dont, use a harbinger.
This, if hes using the standard mission passive recharge setup (lows full of rechargers no cap booster), you should be able to cap drain him very easily as the rechargers nerf his cap. This lets you turnoff his hardneners assuming hes got some actives. A harb fits neuts as standard.
Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Drykor
Minmatar Reikoku
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Posted - 2009.09.13 09:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kovorix
Aahhh. First of all, a passive drake is a very poor pvp fit and is only difficult to beat because its a consensual 1v1 without any of the elements of actual eve pvp.
When are people gonna learn this is simply not true. The drake could be 'passive' and still have propulsion/point and end up with kicking a Brutix' ass as long as the fight doesn't start in blaster range. In reality the blaster Brutix is not a great 1vs1 ship as long as you are not absolutely sure you can dictate range and start relatively close. Also, HAM drakes do NOT do low damage. With a 2 MAR setup on the Brutix like that, you're roughly tanking half of its dps AT BEST, with a standard bc buffer with damage control. Admittedly, if/once you do manage to get in blaster range, you'll easily break his passive recharge but then you still have to chew through at least twice as much ehp as you have.
I'd take a HAM drake against a blaster Brutix any day, as long the fight doesn't start within 5k.
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fmercury
Club Bear
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Posted - 2009.09.13 09:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kovorix
Originally by: IceDane Sorry, see edit.
Aahhh. First of all, a passive drake is a very poor pvp fit and is only difficult to beat because its a consensual 1v1 without any of the elements of actual eve pvp.
What? I hope you're joking. Passive drakes are one of the strongest BCs out there. And they will outdamge the brutix's reps by a decent amount. The brutix on the other hand will have trouble getting through the drake's peak recharge before it caps out.
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fmercury
Club Bear
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Posted - 2009.09.13 09:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Conwakleferibok Edited by: Conwakleferibok on 13/09/2009 06:42:33 If you have to use a brutix then at least use Anti EM medium drones (Infiltrators).
If you dont, use a harbinger.
No, please don't. Most drakes do photon/inuln/lse, which leaves thermal as their lowest res. Besides, Infiltrators do such pathetic dps it's almost never a good idea to use them.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.13 10:04:00 -
[13]
Please remember that you are effectively engaging a tier2 BC in an ageing tier1 BC.
The passive HAM Drake has far more hitpoints than even when fitting tackle. His recharge will almost equal your ability to rep should you be active tanked.
Your best bet is gank the snot out of the Brutix with a plate buffer and use a flight of EC-600 drones to interrupt his damage stream. I generally consider ecm drones to be ghey as hell, but they are ideally suited for pure gank ships in limited engagements like a 1 vs 1.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.13 10:54:00 -
[14]
Originally by: fmercury
Originally by: Conwakleferibok Edited by: Conwakleferibok on 13/09/2009 06:42:33 If you have to use a brutix then at least use Anti EM medium drones (Infiltrators).
If you dont, use a harbinger.
No, please don't. Most drakes do photon/inuln/lse, which leaves thermal as their lowest res. Besides, Infiltrators do such pathetic dps it's almost never a good idea to use them.
25% invul from base, 2 t2 invuls and if you feel sad about the em hole, put an em rig. --- I smack just for myself.
* Your signature file is to large. Please note: we do not allow signature files larger than 24000 bytes - Fallout |
Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.13 11:03:00 -
[15]
Why are we talking about recharge and PVP and HAM Drake in the same sentence?
A PVP Drake has 3 BCUs and relies on buffer rather then recharge to win. It also tends to beat preety much any BC out there bar slaved trimarked Harbingers in pure DPS/tank terms while fitting tackle.
A Brutix is going to die to it, unless it has ECM drones and extreme luck.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Tizrotin
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Posted - 2009.09.13 11:29:00 -
[16]
If he is using a HAM Drake, his DPS is jammable....use med ecm drones. Target his drones and keep a close eye on yours. At the slightest hint of red pull them back and redeploy. If you are going completely buffer armor, put a rsd with a scan script in your mids.
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steveid
Renovatio Industries Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2009.09.13 12:44:00 -
[17]
the trouble is your gonna be fighting a tier 2 battlecruiser that from a skill point of view is easy to tank really well with a tier 1 battlecruiser that from a skill point of view is hard to train to a good level.
That said in a purely 1 on 1, no running start at what range you want fight you could probably beat him with this:
[Brutix, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II X 4 Damage Control II
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction X 4
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M X 7
Ancillary Current Router I X 3
Hammerhead II x5
Use your ordinary damage to get him to around 40% shields, overload till he's under 30% and he's yours. 800 dps without overloading should win the day.
Trouble with that is its a horrible setup designed solely for a fight that in a PVP situation you will never get.
Basically a brutix will never beat a full tank drake. If he's HAM fit he's not a full tank drake tho.
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Kovorix
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Posted - 2009.09.13 15:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Drykor
Originally by: Kovorix
Aahhh. First of all, a passive drake is a very poor pvp fit and is only difficult to beat because its a consensual 1v1 without any of the elements of actual eve pvp.
When are people gonna learn this is simply not true. The drake could be 'passive' and still have propulsion/point and end up with kicking a Brutix' ass as long as the fight doesn't start in blaster range. In reality the blaster Brutix is not a great 1vs1 ship as long as you are not absolutely sure you can dictate range and start relatively close. Also, HAM drakes do NOT do low damage. With a 2 MAR setup on the Brutix like that, you're roughly tanking half of its dps AT BEST, with a standard bc buffer with damage control. Admittedly, if/once you do manage to get in blaster range, you'll easily break his passive recharge but then you still have to chew through at least twice as much ehp as you have.
I'd take a HAM drake against a blaster Brutix any day, as long the fight doesn't start within 5k.
First of all, a passive setup that uses med slots for tackle and propulsion and low slots for BCUs is NOT a passive setup, it's a buffer setup, which is completely different. Using passive recharge requires a massive amount of slots to even be worth tank gained from recharge, which means very poor damage.
A properly fit drake with HAMs, 2-3 BCUs, and a buffer is an excellent pvp ship. But 1v1, I would still take it on most of the time in a brutix. Your idea that you will be able to keep a brutix in HAM range but outside of web/scram range is ridiculous, you will be tackled and the brutix will be on your face.
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The Benich
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Posted - 2009.09.13 16:23:00 -
[19]
Dont go within 20km :p
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.14 14:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kovorix
A properly fit drake with HAMs, 2-3 BCUs, and a buffer is an excellent pvp ship. But 1v1, I would still take it on most of the time in a brutix. Your idea that you will be able to keep a brutix in HAM range but outside of web/scram range is ridiculous, you will be tackled and the brutix will be on your face.
Only small problem is beating the said Drake in Brutix optimal range tbh.
Maybe shield neutron brutix with ecms and a bit of luck.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Aasimartwo
Caldari The Inf1dels
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:38:00 -
[21]
A well fit passive drake, regardless of the missile type, will have a cap issue. Max tank passive drake has all shield power relays in the lows and EM/2xInvuln which will make the ship not cap stable to begin with.
A single medium neut will quickly shut down his hardeners.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.14 17:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Aasimartwo A well fit passive drake, regardless of the missile type, will have a cap issue. Max tank passive drake has all shield power relays in the lows and EM/2xInvuln which will make the ship not cap stable to begin with.
A single medium neut will quickly shut down his hardeners.
I see you've been paying attention and read what the thread it about.
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Roland Deschaines
Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2009.09.14 18:11:00 -
[23]
If what you mean by a "passive" Drake is a typical buffer HAM Drake (passive because it uses no cap), fit to almost permatank its DPS (dual rep brutix) while slowly cutting through the buffer.
If it's an actual passive recharge Drake and you can't break h tank, he has mostly SPRs, in which case his DPS is low, in which case a dual rep Brutix should tank him till it runs out of cap boosters.
-- Monsieur Rolly
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Pan Dora
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.14 21:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aasimartwo A fail fit passive drake, regardless of the missile type, will have a cap issue. A drake with all shield power relays in the lows no cap to run a single invul.
A single medium neut will do nothing since it uses no cap at all.
Fixed
_ I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
Asuka Smith
Gallente StarHunt
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Posted - 2009.09.14 21:24:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 14/09/2009 21:38:33 In order to win you are going to have to use a custom-tailored fit. This means we need to know the engagement rules (do you start at 0km from one another or do you have to close the gap? If you start at 0km I am going to say do not fit a MWD for example).
You cannot win with a standard fit though, the Drake is simply better designed for 1v1 brawling.
Assuming you start in blaster range this fit will probably win.
[Brutix, Shield Gank] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5
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Tuvar Hiede
Caldari Obsidian Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.14 22:26:00 -
[26]
See I'm alittle confused. By reading the OP I'm guessing neither are seasoned combat pilots, and I'm kinda reading into the matter, so correct me if I am wrong, but neither are high on SP either. Both play a part in if they can, cannot, or even have a chance at breaking the tank.
That said I have flown a passive drake in PvP as well as ratting. I went with 3 large extenders, 2 invuln and 1 proton hardners. 6illed the lows with shield rechargers and rigged with shield purgers ( I'm as work so may not be 100% correct ) and did ok, I noticed low dps but a nice tank.
Was a fun little ship to fly, but lost it to a Cane, Hype, and another Drake. Put up a heck of a fight. For how to beat one in a brutix I would go 1 DCU II and 1 kinetic hardener II in anticipation of heavy kinetic attacks as that's the bonus. 1 medium repper and the rest magstabs. Mediums I usually place a web, point, MWD, and a Medium Cap Booster W/ 800's or 400's. High's biggest blasters possible. Neut is a good idea is you can fit it.
Y this fit? Well you have to overcome that hump asap where his recharge is the greatest. U also need to survive, its really a small fleet or gang fit, but I think it will work. If you are getting overcome by dps hit the MWD or AB if needs be and get out, but if you get to that point you may want to consider it a draw.
Goodluck, its not impossible by far, just need to make sure you get a good fit :)
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Pan Dora
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.15 00:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Asuka Smith Edited by: Asuka Smith on 14/09/2009 21:38:33 In order to win you are going to have to use a custom-tailored fit. This means we need to know the engagement rules (do you start at 0km from one another or do you have to close the gap? If you start at 0km I am going to say do not fit a MWD for example).
You cannot win with a standard fit though, the Drake is simply better designed for 1v1 brawling.
Assuming you start in blaster range this fit will probably win.
[Brutix, Shield Gank] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hammerhead II x5
[Drake, outside blaster range]
10mn Afterburner I Stasis Webifiber I Warp Scrambler I
?? _ I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
McDaddy Pimp
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:02:00 -
[28]
Dont want to sound like a pessimist, but tbh, its immposible beat a well fitted. Assuming SP difference is irrelevant.
15km Rage HAM vs 8.5km CN Antimatter - Drake wins Trackless HAMs vs guns - Drake wins (he can perma run an AB and thus increasing hes tank w/o sacrificing dps) EHP - Drake wins (100k ~ 70k ehp depends on fit ) DPS - Brutix wins by ~150dps, but since the drake have almost double your ehp, i doubt this will matter.
Brutix is a tier 1 while Drake is a tier 2 BC, the Brutix is designed to be inferior to a Drake.
Try a Myrmidon, and eat the Drake hitpoints slowly, while he hopelessly trying to break your awesome active tank
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Spectre3353
Gallente The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: McDaddy Pimp Try a Myrmidon, and eat the Drake hitpoints slowly, while he hopelessly trying to break your awesome active tank
This is what I would suggest at all. The Brutix is still a fine ship in some situations (massive gank with a little shield buffer for a gang) but the Myrm is superior in almost every situation. A well fit and flown dual-rep Myrm can easily kill a poorly flown/fit Drake. ----- The Python Cartel - My Pirate Blog |
Pan Dora
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.09.15 14:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Spectre3353 A well fit and flown dual-rep Myrm can easily kill a poorly flown/fit Drake.
A well fit and flown drake can easily kill a poorly flown/fit myrm. Killing poorly flown/fit ships its hardly a challange.
Like McDaddy said against a Brutix: all the advantages for the drake. Against a Myrm we have a figth.
_ I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
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