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Battle ships and roles - Minnie is fail

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Trader Jjenna	Posted - 2009.09.15 04:42:00 - [1] PVE - best ships: Raven and Domi. Amarr: Apoc w/MP II is great (I use it w/ domi) Fleet Sniper: Apoc = Rohk > Mega > minnie (maelstrom or tempest) Remote Rep: Domi and Geddon are great. Tempest or phoon are OK. I use the phoon sometimes - don't like too much. Caldari is worst here. Cannot think of a caldari to use is RR very well. Guess you could try scorp? Other roles? Basically, I am not too interested in eft beyond what it enlightens us as to roles (e.g. whats a better sniper). When I get called on to use a BS, all I know is that for the most part, with all my characters, I less and less reach for a minnie BS.
AstroPhobic Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.15 04:47:00 - [2] Phoon is pretty darn good at RR (requires godly skills), and the raven makes a decent addition to an RR gang.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.09.15 04:51:00 - [3] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 15/09/2009 04:53:44 Typhoon > Domi for RR BS gangs, by far. And doesnt require a ton of skills either, as you can just focus on one weapon system plus drones. Tempest is not bad either, if you want the same RR on a geddon you end up with the same dps, a lot more effective range (which doesnt matter that much in a RR BS fight) but pest gets the better damage type. And then the Tempest keeps shooting once you burned all cap charges, pulse boats need to take alot more care about not capping themselves out repping, while the pest just overheats the reps and burns all cap on them. Edit: and if we take logistic cruisers into the picture, caldari doesnt look too bad, the torp raven is just sick with a couple of basilisks on it.
Kovorix	Posted - 2009.09.15 05:03:00 - [4] Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 15/09/2009 04:53:44 Typhoon > Domi for RR BS gangs, by far. And doesnt require a ton of skills either, as you can just focus on one weapon system plus drones. Tempest is not bad either, if you want the same RR on a geddon you end up with the same dps, a lot more effective range (which doesnt matter that much in a RR BS fight) but pest gets the better damage type. And then the Tempest keeps shooting once you burned all cap charges, pulse boats need to take alot more care about not capping themselves out repping, while the pest just overheats the reps and burns all cap on them. Edit: and if we take logistic cruisers into the picture, caldari doesnt look too bad, the torp raven is just sick with a couple of basilisks on it. I really don't think you can make an argument for a pest over a geddon in an RR gang. You wouldn't fit 2x rr on a geddon, it's only done on the pest because you don't have another turret hardpoint. And when you take falloff into account, the geddon will be doing MUCH more damage.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2009.09.15 06:17:00 - [5] phoon is good at RR even if domi is better, for caldari Raven can be a decent RR, personally i dont like the pest for RR, too squishy and a good candidate to get called primary among bs phoon is also pretty good in pve personally i'll rank it with the domi the crappastrom can be an ok camper but not like the abaddon but in the end yup, cept the phoon for RR and pve minnie have not good BS and for RR generally the "good ones" are the ones that loose less from fitting support modules... is not that a mega (for example) cant be a decent RR (imo better than a pest) but generally people chose to opt for the domi for that role as is more suited Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.09.15 08:47:00 - [6] hmm not the best minny complaint I've seen but seems to be right. Minnie bs's right now do lack a role, but tbh the minmatar race lacks a role thx to nerfs / changes. ------------------------------ Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Kaimber Valkimbrian	Posted - 2009.09.15 09:39:00 - [7] Phoon is godly but it takes forever to get the skills needed to properly fly it, the only true ship it will have trouble on is the drone domi. amarr ships fail big time against a properly armed phoon. only prob is it will take you around a year to train for it properly skill wise
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.15 10:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Trader Jjenna PVE - best ships: Raven and Domi. Amarr: Apoc w/MP II is great (I use it w/ domi) Fleet Sniper: Apoc = Rohk > Mega > minnie (maelstrom or tempest) Remote Rep: Domi and Geddon are great. Tempest or phoon are OK. I use the phoon sometimes - don't like too much. Caldari is worst here. Cannot think of a caldari to use is RR very well. Guess you could try scorp? Apocalypse doesn't do well in missions on its own, damage is simply too low when tank is in place. It is mainly used as a stepping stone to Beam Paladin's. For sniper fleets Apocalypse can't be beat due to raw range, but it is really the only thing it excels at (makes a great neuting boat though). RR Armageddon's do more damage out to the 45km range or so and is then overtaken by ACs due their higher range (optimal+ 2xFalloff). Beyond optimal lasers drop fast as they have hardly any falloff to speak of. Torpedo Typhoon using neuts/rr in remaining slots is infinitely more desirable in a RR gang than an extra laser boat. Tracking independent damage, cap warfare AND RR while retaining the buffer. There are ups and down to any configurations. Good that you swear off EFT because things are not black and white. CCP has ALREADY stated that they are looking at projectiles, making daily threads will not make it go any faster and only adds more outlets for disinformation and confusion.
kyrv	Posted - 2009.09.15 10:35:00 - [9] After training up typhoon I found is a nice brawler like the dominix but I guess another role is required a armageddon is the next favorite for gangs, I hear its the best for mid range damage and what a typhoon hasn't got is the range maximum 20km's or so.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.15 10:47:00 - [10] Originally by: AstroPhobic Phoon is pretty darn good at RR (requires godly skills), and the raven makes a decent addition to an RR gang. Raven is mediocre at best in armor RR, and sucks at shield RR if you want to use siege launchers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html

Aranis Nax Minmatar Seraphim Blades	Posted - 2009.09.15 10:49:00 - [11] Edited by: Aranis Nax on 15/09/2009 10:50:05 Originally by: Omara Otawan Edited by: Omara Otawan on 15/09/2009 04:53:44 Typhoon > Domi for RR BS gangs, by far. And doesnt require a ton of skills either, as you can just focus on one weapon system plus drones. Tempest is not bad either, if you want the same RR on a geddon you end up with the same dps, a lot more effective range (which doesnt matter that much in a RR BS fight) but pest gets the better damage type. And then the Tempest keeps shooting once you burned all cap charges, pulse boats need to take alot more care about not capping themselves out repping, while the pest just overheats the reps and burns all cap on them. Edit: and if we take logistic cruisers into the picture, caldari doesnt look too bad, the torp raven is just sick with a couple of basilisks on it. Geddon has far more room for cap charges then a Tempest would have. Geddon only needs 6-7 AN MF L and 6-7 Scorch L, which amounts to 12-14m¦ for a good amount of shots(around 4000 volleys for MF iirc and 1000 for scorch). For a Tempest to take an equivalent amount of ammo it would need to bring 24000 RF EMP and 6000 Barrage L or 1500 m¦. Now of course noone will bring that much(nor can), but it sure as heck will be more then 12-14m¦ for ammo for a tempest. And that is only 2 ammo types. Want to do different damage types, you'll have to bring more types. In the end Tempest will run out of cap boosters far sooner then the Geddon, despite having 600m¦ cargo on both. Originally by: Hirana Yoshida CCP has ALREADY stated that they are looking at projectiles, making daily threads will not make it go any faster and only adds more outlets for disinformation and confusion. Could you provide a link for that statement? kthx ----- My Tempest fix suggestion: -1 high, +1 mid, -1 turret. ROF bonus to 7.5%. Increase maneuverability.
AstroPhobic Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.15 14:44:00 - [12] Edited by: AstroPhobic on 15/09/2009 14:44:46 Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Originally by: AstroPhobic Phoon is pretty darn good at RR (requires godly skills), and the raven makes a decent addition to an RR gang. Raven is mediocre at best in armor RR, and sucks at shield RR if you want to use siege launchers. 700 DPS out to 30km, 580 to 45. It's not as good as a geddon or phoon say but it's not like caldari doesn't have a viable option. [Raven, RR Siege] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Adaptive Nano Plating II 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 ECCM - Gravimetric II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Medium 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I Trimark Armor Pump I Hammerhead II x5
Trader Jjenna	Posted - 2009.09.15 15:44:00 - [13] Edited by: Trader Jjenna on 15/09/2009 15:45:43 Originally by: Typhado3 hmm not the best minny complaint I've seen but seems to be right. Minnie bs's right now do lack a role, but tbh the minmatar race lacks a role thx to nerfs / changes. Well - agreed. This is not a complaint; it is an observation. My main is bordering 90mil SP. I have 2 alts with >45mil SP. I can run almost any BS with all level V support - possibly an occasional level iv (e.g. torps spec level iv). And yes agreed- Minnie's role in general is under question. Observing my own use, the use of my corp (PvP corp), the use of my alliance (Can field large fleets), I notice that Minnie ships either lack a role, or lack desirability in filling a specific role. For almost every BS role I observe, Minnie is undesirable or a noticeably less desirable choice in that role. SOmeone mentioned fixing arties as if that will fix this. Fixing arties in general is a necessary but insufficient step to solving this. The individual Minnie BS hulls must be addressed. I find myself running Amarr and Gal BS in PvP and not Minnie which is simply an observation - as well as a shame.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.09.15 17:29:00 - [14] Originally by: AstroPhobic godly skills Did you play Diablo II? - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
AstroPhobic Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.15 17:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Originally by: AstroPhobic godly skills Did you play Diablo II? No. (Did I just fall for a trap?)
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.09.21 18:13:00 - [16] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 Originally by: AstroPhobic godly skills Did you play Diablo II? No. (Did I just fall for a trap?) The adjective "godly" was very abused on battle.net in the late 90's and early 00's. "Godly gear" was stuff that was obscenely rare and often perfect. Imagine if officer items had variable stats and one out of 1000 had an ideal random stat layout. Say it had 1-10 CPU required, 90-100 grid required, and granted a 35-45% resist bonus. The one of thousands of drops that had perfect stats (1 CPU, 90 grid, 45% res) would be considered "godly" - and that's starting with officer mods. Basically the rarest of the rare, and oftentimes one of these items would fetch an entire account worth of well geared characters in trade. In my 6 sporadic years of playing I had probably one, maybe two items I would have called "godly", and that was with a lot of botting with seven pairs of CD keys. Then it got taken up by the item selling spammers saying things in trade channels/spamming games like "TIRED OF LOOSING?! [sic] GET GODLY!!!!1one <spammer URL>" I would hate to see the term return to popularity within EVE. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
AstroPhobic Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.21 21:41:00 - [17] Originally by: Caldari Citizen4714 The adjective "godly" was very abused on battle.net in the late 90's and early 00's. "Godly gear" was stuff that was obscenely rare and often perfect. Imagine if officer items had variable stats and one out of 1000 had an ideal random stat layout. Say it had 1-10 CPU required, 90-100 grid required, and granted a 35-45% resist bonus. The one of thousands of drops that had perfect stats (1 CPU, 90 grid, 45% res) would be considered "godly" - and that's starting with officer mods. Basically the rarest of the rare, and oftentimes one of these items would fetch an entire account worth of well geared characters in trade. In my 6 sporadic years of playing I had probably one, maybe two items I would have called "godly", and that was with a lot of botting with seven pairs of CD keys. Then it got taken up by the item selling spammers saying things in trade channels/spamming games like "TIRED OF LOOSING?! [sic] GET GODLY!!!!1one <spammer URL>" I would hate to see the term return to popularity within EVE. The more you knowÖ. The only time I hear it thrown around in eve is in reference to the phoon's SP requirements or the tempest's combat performance. It is, after all, clearly the best battleshipÖ.


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