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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Caroline Nikon	Posted - 2009.09.20 11:08:00 - [331] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/09/2009 17:18:06 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/09/2009 17:17:03 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/09/2009 17:15:57 Originally by: Zarnak Wulf My 200mm plated wolf went from 946m/s to about 1342m/s on sissi. It could still hit targets at that speed. Yeah, it's fun clearing out from a wolf's sweet spot in <3 s in a Jaguar You see, with the mass differences (which means plate AFs get much less out of 75% to AB boost), and the speed differences, the currently faster ships on TQ are much much faster on SISI. Boost increase favours the lighter and unplated ships. The wolf is very useless compared to a Jaguar post-patch, honestly. if you plate it.. maybe. I still use a 1 small rep wolf that can run for 13 minutes basically beign imune to any set of 5 light drones.... Put 1 scrambler and is a NICE beast to keep a battleship tackled and chewing his armor. I could use it even on a large fleet slugfest.. just select a poor apocalypse and seal its fate slowly but surely every 5 minutes :)
Sir Zzang Amarr AAA Citizens	Posted - 2009.09.20 11:56:00 - [332] Allright if you're now into changing something in AFs, please add the 2nd midslot to Retribution. Ty & Fly safe _ :D!
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.09.20 12:46:00 - [333] Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 20/09/2009 04:51:55 Originally by: Liang Nuren useless gamed test -Liang Optimal to a drooling imbecile maybe. You arranged it with an AF having short range weapons, a scram instead of a disrupter (so you have to stay close) and it did everything it could to go as slow as possible by orbiting at a ludicrously suicidal range. 600ms . In other words you gamed it in every way possible to ensure a win for the Caracal. If you were the slightest bit objective you would fit something that can work outside of web range with a disrupter at a reasonable orbit to ensure max speed. You know, like people will actually do? But hey, that would have buggered up your test wouldnt it have? The only thing clear about your post is that you havent the vaguest intention of flying a cerb or caraacal after these idiotic changes. Soporo, you (as usual) don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about. AML Caracal will continue to casually slaughter these over-rated AFs. Unless you're using some hilarious lolfit... oh.
Cpt Branko The Scope	Posted - 2009.09.20 16:33:00 - [334] Originally by: Caroline Nikon if you plate it.. maybe. I still use a 1 small rep wolf that can run for 13 minutes basically beign imune to any set of 5 light drones.... Put 1 scrambler and is a NICE beast to keep a battleship tackled and chewing his armor. I could use it even on a large fleet slugfest.. just select a poor apocalypse and seal its fate slowly but surely every 5 minutes :) Well, relying on a SAR to keep you safe from drones is relying on the other guy not to have neutralizers. I have not flown a non-neutralizer ship after the web nerf. The Jaguar has no such worries ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Liang Nuren The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.20 17:34:00 - [335] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Makes sense since it will be the only sub-BS hulls worth flying. All ships that do not make huge sacrifices (ie. a minmum of 3-4 slots just to be able to do damage) to combat the speedy AF will be obsolete. Since these slot are normally midslots you can scrap all Amarr as well as most Caldari and Gallente hulls. You yourself used web, painter AND 3 rigs to be able to it .. good luck using that fit for anything useful (although popping AFs is useful, you get the gist) You are completely right. I've pretty much decided that any ship not sacrificing at least two slots to anti-AF duty is a lossmail waiting to happen. These AFs are really really bad news. My initial testing showed that they wouldn't be THAT BAD. And I was right - they weren't nearly as bad as some people were making them out to be in this thread. Tons of hysterics up in this place. BUT. BUT, the AF changes are going to make them really bad news. I can't support this particular boost. However, I'm still strongly in favor of having some fourth bonus added. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.20 18:05:00 - [336] Originally by: Liang Nuren <snip> BUT. BUT, the AF changes are going to make them really bad news. I can't support this particular boost. However, I'm still strongly in favor of having some fourth bonus added. -Liang Exactly the same place I am at; they need their role/4th bonus but suggested speed boost creates more issues than it solves. The best notion I have had yet is increasing their ability to overheat as it boosts all AFs while almost giving them same speed boost as well as damage/tank but limited by heat (ie. drawback). Also doesn't "recommend" any specific fits. I don't want my beloved low-sec overrun by weekend warriors taking annoyingly hard to kill ships out for joy-rides without at least a chance of returning home in a pod. Low-sec is my home, not a damn holiday resort!
Cpt Branko The Scope	Posted - 2009.09.20 19:58:00 - [337] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/09/2009 19:59:06 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Liang Nuren <snip> BUT. BUT, the AF changes are going to make them really bad news. I can't support this particular boost. However, I'm still strongly in favor of having some fourth bonus added. -Liang Exactly the same place I am at; they need their role/4th bonus but suggested speed boost creates more issues than it solves. The best notion I have had yet is increasing their ability to overheat as it boosts all AFs while almost giving them same speed boost as well as damage/tank but limited by heat (ie. drawback). Also doesn't "recommend" any specific fits. I don't want my beloved low-sec overrun by weekend warriors taking annoyingly hard to kill ships out for joy-rides without at least a chance of returning home in a pod. Low-sec is my home, not a damn holiday resort! Preety much; although AFs need a good looking at in general, because the class itself is riddled with imbalances - probably the least balanced T2 ship class as things are (and the proposed change only makes it worse, really). They could probably do with reducing mineral requirements as the build costs of them now are making them laughably expensive. I find the agility on them (which is sort of necessary for a frig gang of any sort) to be lacking behind other frigate hulls, which is bad (compare to HACs which are preety much as agile and fast as their T1 counterparts). This proposed boost is just bad balance. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.20 20:06:00 - [338] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 20/09/2009 04:51:55 Originally by: Liang Nuren useless gamed test -Liang Optimal to a drooling imbecile maybe. You arranged it with an AF having short range weapons, a scram instead of a disrupter (so you have to stay close) and it did everything it could to go as slow as possible by orbiting at a ludicrously suicidal range. 600ms . In other words you gamed it in every way possible to ensure a win for the Caracal. If you were the slightest bit objective you would fit something that can work outside of web range with a disrupter at a reasonable orbit to ensure max speed. You know, like people will actually do? But hey, that would have buggered up your test wouldnt it have? The only thing clear about your post is that you havent the vaguest intention of flying a cerb or caraacal after these idiotic changes. Soporo, you (as usual) don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about. AML Caracal will continue to casually slaughter these over-rated AFs. Unless you're using some hilarious lolfit... oh. You're one to talk. Werent you the one nagging everyone for months after the missile nerf about how everything is fine because everyone will be using MWD and thus "self paint 500%" which will enable more missile damage thus it's ballance? Many many times you used that argument as the be all, end all of missile vs speed ballance. That's not happening anymore now is it? Small sig, uber AB speed, NO "500% SELF PAINTING" as you call it = another unnecessary light missile nerf which still does nothing to adress ship specific AF issues.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.20 20:12:00 - [339] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 20/09/2009 20:13:25 I think an AB boost would be great...for some AFs. Not so much for others. AFs shouldn't all get a sweeping 15% per level bonus to ABs...It would be great for some ships, certainly, but not all. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the Harpy is made for rails. The ship's description mentions 2-3 times that it's meant to fight at long range (relative to other frigates, of course). An AB bonus for such a ship just doesn't make sense because you need to control range. A minor MWD bonus, a tracking bonus, or an agility bonus, however, would be great. Personally I'd shy away from giving too many ships AB boosts. The choices and tradeoffs between MWDs and ABs on AFs leads to some interesting variety which I wouldn't want to see dead. Having a couple AFs have an AB/MWD boost might be cool, but not all of them. Quote: If you were the slightest bit objective you would fit something that can work outside of web range with a disrupter at a reasonable orbit to ensure max speed. You know, like people will actually do? But hey, that would have buggered up your test wouldnt it have? great. So a skirmish fit. Except skirmish fits require MWDs to keep range. The AML caracal will MWD at you and kill you.
Xing Fey	Posted - 2009.09.20 21:03:00 - [340] Edited by: Xing Fey on 20/09/2009 21:04:08 Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 20/09/2009 20:13:25 I think an AB boost would be great...for some AFs. Not so much for others. AFs shouldn't all get a sweeping 15% per level bonus to ABs...It would be great for some ships, certainly, but not all. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the Harpy is made for rails. The ship's description mentions 2-3 times that it's meant to fight at long range (relative to other frigates, of course). An AB bonus for such a ship just doesn't make sense because you need to control range. A minor MWD bonus, a tracking bonus, or an agility bonus, however, would be great. Personally I'd shy away from giving too many ships AB boosts. The choices and tradeoffs between MWDs and ABs on AFs leads to some interesting variety which I wouldn't want to see dead. Having a couple AFs have an AB/MWD boost might be cool, but not all of them. Quote: If you were the slightest bit objective you would fit something that can work outside of web range with a disrupter at a reasonable orbit to ensure max speed. You know, like people will actually do? But hey, that would have buggered up your test wouldnt it have? great. So a skirmish fit. Except skirmish fits require MWDs to keep range. The AML caracal will MWD at you and kill you. Really, this. I feel the 15% AB bonus is great for the "heavy tackler" line of AFs (Enyo, Vengance, Hawk, Jaguar) but for the other "combat" AFs it's either overpowering (Ishkur, Wolf) or redundant/useless/silly (Harpy, Retribution). I'd rather see the second line get a set of tracking bonuses for the gun AFs and a (5% ?) drone velocity bonus or something for the Ishkur. Not only would this help general balance, it would also make them excelent counters for the tackler AFs.

Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2009.09.20 22:47:00 - [341] Originally by: Xing Fey Really, this. I feel the 15% AB bonus is great for the "heavy tackler" line of AFs (Enyo, Vengance, Hawk, Jaguar) but for the other "combat" AFs it's either overpowering (Ishkur, Wolf) or redundant/useless/silly (Harpy, Retribution). I'd rather see the second line get a set of tracking bonuses for the gun AFs and a (5% ?) drone velocity bonus or something for the Ishkur. Not only would this help general balance, it would also make them excelent counters for the tackler AFs. Most of the AF were designed with one being "combat" or up close and the other being a "sniper." Remarkably the HACs were designed the same way. The advent of the new scrambler has allowed the combat AF to effectively tackle. You can get a point AND turn off the MWD of your opponent. Give these the AB bonus to give them their intended role. These would be the: Wolf Enyo Vengeance Hawk Fix rockets. Let's talk about the other AF.
Cpt Branko The Scope	Posted - 2009.09.20 23:38:00 - [342] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/09/2009 23:44:17 Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Originally by: Xing Fey Really, this. I feel the 15% AB bonus is great for the "heavy tackler" line of AFs (Enyo, Vengance, Hawk, Jaguar) but for the other "combat" AFs it's either overpowering (Ishkur, Wolf) or redundant/useless/silly (Harpy, Retribution). I'd rather see the second line get a set of tracking bonuses for the gun AFs and a (5% ?) drone velocity bonus or something for the Ishkur. Not only would this help general balance, it would also make them excelent counters for the tackler AFs. Most of the AF were designed with one being "combat" or up close and the other being a "sniper." Remarkably the HACs were designed the same way. The advent of the new scrambler has allowed the combat AF to effectively tackle. You can get a point AND turn off the MWD of your opponent. Give these the AB bonus to give them their intended role. These would be the: Wolf Enyo Vengeance Hawk Fix rockets. Let's talk about the other AF. Tbh, how to fix Wolf/Enyo: Wolf: - 10% mass (mainly because it needs the agility tbh, the small speed increase also wouldn't kill it) + 15% armour+structure HP - utility highslot, + midslot + 30 more CPU + 20% more cap (to offset the fact you don't have a nos now, plus for anything even resembling a repper the Wolf fails capwise) + tracking 4th bonus (seriously. I get tempted at times to fit a arty wolf. Then I decide I'm just going to use a thrasher, because the wolf can't track crap. Also would be incredibly useful for drone slaughter) Enyo: -> see wolf, copy paste + extra damage bonus so it has a "I'm meltinnngg" effect when up close and has a reason to exist other then "Ishkur is more expensive", alternatively something worthless so the Wolf can still be a much better ship. Imagine, the Enyo becomes an actual assault ship which can gank stuff almost like a T1 cruiser now. Add role bonus to heat, if you want to make them really competitive. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ametyste Aek	Posted - 2009.09.21 13:17:00 - [343] Personaly i like this change, AF will be heavy tackler wich would be able to kill lone cruiser/dumBSs, i'm fine with it. Neut will shut theyr ab/scram since they'll always be in range and if you don't have any neut/web on your ships, you shoud mb as well stay docked.
Bunzan Cardinal Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.21 15:08:00 - [344] Edited by: Bunzan Cardinal on 21/09/2009 15:08:46 i like the change as well. AFs have been a bit underpowered. They should be able to last longer to a cruiser. ATM from what i've noticed, if you're not flying an ishkur or vengeance you should stick to smaller targets or make sure you fly in a gang, this should hopefully fix that, and make even the crappiest/slowest AFs viable for solo/tackle work.
Grut Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.21 16:50:00 - [345] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Originally by: Xing Fey Really, this. I feel the 15% AB bonus is great for the "heavy tackler" line of AFs (Enyo, Vengance, Hawk, Jaguar) but for the other "combat" AFs it's either overpowering (Ishkur, Wolf) or redundant/useless/silly (Harpy, Retribution). I'd rather see the second line get a set of tracking bonuses for the gun AFs and a (5% ?) drone velocity bonus or something for the Ishkur. Not only would this help general balance, it would also make them excelent counters for the tackler AFs. Most of the AF were designed with one being "combat" or up close and the other being a "sniper." Remarkably the HACs were designed the same way. The advent of the new scrambler has allowed the combat AF to effectively tackle. You can get a point AND turn off the MWD of your opponent. Give these the AB bonus to give them their intended role. These would be the: Wolf Enyo Vengeance Hawk Fix rockets. Let's talk about the other AF.[/.quote] These 2 posts win the thread. 4 poor afs buffed and given a role - check 2 op'd afs not massively buffed - check 4th bonus of tracking + drone speed sound good. Maybe cap recharge for the retrib. Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know... Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought
Xing Fey	Posted - 2009.09.21 17:30:00 - [346] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf The advent of the new scrambler has allowed the combat AF to effectively tackle. You can get a point AND turn off the MWD of your opponent. Give these the AB bonus to give them their intended role. These would be the: Wolf Enyo Vengeance Hawk Fix rockets. Let's talk about the other AF. I realy can't agree with makign the wolf faster than the jag, even if it still has less tank I feel that's jsut another enyo/ishkur in the making. Not to mention the absurdity of a thukker ship being the slow one... When I designated half the AFs as tacklers i did it based on the damage output of the vessels. Neither of the enyo, jaguar, vengance, and hawk are stellar dps dealers (and the enyo isn't a douvolle ship, so stop asking for more damage, roden ships are supposed to be tacklers) but as branko said, i'd defintley put a tracking bonus on the wolf, that would be absolutely awesome.
Grut Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.21 19:47:00 - [347] Originally by: Xing Fey I realy can't agree with makign the wolf faster than the jag, even if it still has less tank I feel that's jsut another enyo/ishkur in the making. Not to mention the absurdity of a thukker ship being the slow one... Nope, the Jag could fit a MWD so would still be ~1kms faster then the new AB'd Wolf. Give the Jag a tracking bonus and the two give some nice options. Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know... Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought
Defias Mortorus	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:05:00 - [348] Edited by: Defias Mortorus on 21/09/2009 20:06:40 Edited by: Defias Mortorus on 21/09/2009 20:06:00 I'm a new player so I wont comment on the AB good/bad issue. You all can experiment with its ramifications better than me. And have much more experience in the matter. I'd like to make a comment on the heat bonus idea. I really like the idea, sounds like a great bonus. But considering its probably one of the first effective tech 2 combat frigates a new player would consider using besides an interceptor. Is piling on another lvl5 skill, with at least level 3 probably level 4 in thermal dynamics really a good idea from a newer player perspective? I know for you guys its not a problem at all. And if that becomes the solution I wont lose sleep over it. But that does make that ship even harder to use partially effectively. Again, not commenting on balance ship wise (I couldn't). But is it worth considering balance time wise for a new player? Thanks much hmm.. and how do I choose another character for my posting? This one isn't the one I'd like to use.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:16:00 - [349] Originally by: Defias Mortorus <Skill gap woes> No skill requirements are set in stone and the interim patch notes say: Originally by: Dominion Patchnote Thermodynamics has Engineering at level 5, Energy Management at level 3(instead of 5) and Science at level 4 You are going to want Energy Management at 5 (cap is life) eventually anyway, but should speed up the overheat aspirations of many. CCP are pretty good at tweaking little things like that to make things more accessible and/or balanced. Tournament showed that even us old rats are not necessarily better than others when it comes to heating (Drake burned out his missiles I believe )
Defias Mortorus	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:35:00 - [350] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Originally by: Defias Mortorus <Skill gap woes> No skill requirements are set in stone and the interim patch notes say: Originally by: Dominion Patchnote Thermodynamics has Engineering at level 5, Energy Management at level 3(instead of 5) and Science at level 4 You are going to want Energy Management at 5 (cap is life) eventually anyway, but should speed up the overheat aspirations of many. CCP are pretty good at tweaking little things like that to make things more accessible and/or balanced. Tournament showed that even us old rats are not necessarily better than others when it comes to heating (Drake burned out his missiles I believe ) I did not know this. Thanks much for that info. Makes me feel better about that idea.

Augin Soric Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:58:00 - [351] I like where this is going, the one thing i get annoyed at when I fly a wolf / jag is that practically any ship with a MWD will outrun it, even plated ones.
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.09.21 21:01:00 - [352] Originally by: Cpt Branko The wolf is very useless compared to a Jaguar post-patch, honestly. Doesn't the Jaguar, post patch, make every other AF basically useless? (And any T1 cruiser / battlecruiser that can't sport at least two webs/neuts?)
Liang Nuren The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.21 22:38:00 - [353] Originally by: Ulstan But I think any class wide AF buff is not a good idea until problems within the class are addressed. You'll wind up with the good AF's being overpowered or the sucky AF's continuing to be sucky. The good AF are worth flying right now, and a boost wouldn't change that. The sucky AF's aren't worth flying right now, and a boost to all AF's wouldn't change that either. Well, no. I wouldn't bother flying a Jag when I can fly a Rupture, Hurricane, Vaga, or similar. It still needs some boost, just not as much as the Hawk (for example). -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Opertone Caldari Monsters	Posted - 2009.09.22 00:45:00 - [354] Edited by: Opertone on 22/09/2009 00:45:26 wtf is jaguar? I prefer wolf for its DPS. I mainly orbit big targets and NOSF them. Jaguar is a good tackler, sturdy fast and good lock resolution. But DPS wise, wolf is my favorite. Best anti AF platform by far, sabre - nothing can match barrage, ambit autocannons... every assault frigate falls apart at 2-20 kms. Expect the rise of the savage sabre.
ZigZag Joe Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.22 01:12:00 - [355] interesting enough bonus, but putting it as a 4th bonus is completely missing the point of buffing afs. They need slot changes, among other things. Not just a role bonus. (should be a role bonus, not 4th) also, my af buff idea thingie Nothing particularly groundshaking. tl;dr: +1 slot bonuses changed about
Roemy Schneider Vanishing Point.	Posted - 2009.09.22 06:02:00 - [356] Originally by: Opertone Edited by: Opertone on 22/09/2009 00:45:26 wtf is jaguar? I prefer wolf for its DPS. I mainly orbit big targets and NOSF them. Jaguar is a good tackler, sturdy fast and good lock resolution. But DPS wise, wolf is my favorite. Best anti AF platform by far, sabre - nothing can match barrage, ambit autocannons... every assault frigate falls apart at 2-20 kms. Expect the rise of the savage sabre. humm.... considering sabres are not all that far away from their t1 hull, would you say the throwaway-savage-thrasher might be an alternative? it does have more pg and more rig slots, too... ^^ - putting the gist back into logistics
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.09.22 06:49:00 - [357] Originally by: Opertone Best anti AF platform by far, sabre - nothing can match barrage, ambit autocannons... every assault frigate falls apart at 2-20 kms. Expect the rise of the savage sabre. I think you are off by about 10km here. And then there is the pricetag, why would you ever fly a Sabre when you can just fly a Trasher instead? (I actually fly the Sabre myself, but apart from dropping bubbles it doesnt deal with AFs any better than the Trasher already does.)
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.09.22 07:51:00 - [358] Honestly, can I have some of what you're smoking right now? Seriously, this is a *terrible* idea. You remember that patch where you nerfed all the nano setups and stated that un-killable speed setups were bad for game balance? Why would you ever think that bringing them back is a good idea? Your new super-AFs are going to have some major balance issues: 1) Low sig radius + insane speed = missiles do zero dps, and all other weapons will have extreme tracking issues. 2) Faster than everything but a MWD frigate + MWD-killing warp scrambler = no way to pin down an AF and keep it from running away the moment you threaten it. 3) Tiny cap needs of AB/scram + huge speed/low sig + close orbit + enough tank/dps to handle light drones + NOS = neut-immune, un-killable tackler frigate. Get caught by one while flying solo? Better hope you can afford the ransom demand. Congratulations, you just made Falcon alts mandatory again in 1v1, after you FINALLY made them go away for a while. And AFs are still trash in gang fights, as no matter how much of a boost you give ABs, a frigate still can't keep up transversal against an entire gang, or tank an entire gang's Warrior IIs, which means you have a ship that's barely better than a Rifter for 50 million ISK each. Now why exactly is this a good idea? ========== Merin is banned (yet again). Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you! * Your signature is locked due to violating forum rules. Please file a petition once you have an appropriate signature - Fallout
Endless Subversion The Accursed	Posted - 2009.09.22 13:18:00 - [359] Originally by: Sera Ryskin 1) Low sig radius + insane speed = missiles do zero dps, and all other weapons will have extreme tracking issues. 2) Faster than everything but a MWD frigate + MWD-killing warp scrambler = no way to pin down an AF and keep it from running away the moment you threaten it. 3) Tiny cap needs of AB/scram + huge speed/low sig + close orbit + enough tank/dps to handle light drones + NOS = neut-immune, un-killable tackler frigate. Get caught by one while flying solo? Better hope you can afford the ransom demand. THIS!! THIS!! Especially #3. Unkillable tackle frigate holds you for the blob. Awful, awful awful idea.
Kirzath Blackwater Syndicate	Posted - 2009.09.22 14:12:00 - [360] Edited by: Kirzath on 22/09/2009 14:12:43 Originally by: Endless Subversion THIS!! THIS!! Especially #3. Unkillable tackle frigate holds you for the blob. Awful, awful awful idea. As if this was any different pre-AF boost? Dual webs will still murder AFs, and there will still be the stupid pilots who burn straight at your Heavy Pulse Harbinger with 0 transversal.



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