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Titans - let's be creative since CCP obviously isn't

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kyrieee Brutal Deliverance Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2009.09.16 16:53:00 - [1] I'm sure I'm not the only one who was a bit disappointed at the recent dev blog regarding the capital ships in EVE. The Titan changes in particular aren't really much of a change. Their role in combat is still just to deploy a superweapon. I think the fundamental problem with Titans is rooted in the fact that CCP have taken a normal ship and 'turned it up to eleven'. The idea of having a 100 billion ISK ship that fundamentally functions just like any other ship doesn't work. When you have a regular ship that costs that much it will never be cost effective, because if it were then it would simply be overpowered. I know CCP have stated that Titans were never meant to be cost effective, but that's just a lazy answer. Anything that costs tens or hundreds of billions must be an investment, not a gamble. It's clear that Titans cannot be given abilities to justify their price in a single battle. The obvious solution is: make them justify their price over time Something so expensive should (in my opinion) obviously be something you have around, and use, for quite some time. I don't know what systems CCP have planned for sovereignty in Dominion, but I'm sure Titans could be worked into them. There's been a lot of talk about investing in your space, and I don't see why Titans couldn't be a part of that and give bonuses the way structures will. I'm sure there's a ton of interesting things Titans could be used for to justify an investment, so lets come up with some! Currently they have a huge logistics potential with their jump bridges, and that's a good example of a useful role unique to the Titan. I'm just gonna throw some out there, good or bad, w/e Cloaking field generator: give a Titan the ability cloak ships near it, allowing you to conceal your shiptypes (and with delay local your numbers too) Gate disabling device: allow a Titan to temporarily disable the gates in a system (activation should not be instant). Would allow you to cut off enemy reinforcements 'POS' shield generator, siege module: make a titan temporarily capable of creating shields within which other ships can seek refuge These ideas might be overpowered, but the point is that they're not direct combat abilities. You can't make a Titan a great remote repper, because any remote rep ability that justified the pricetag would be overpowered. Any direct combat ability that justifies the price tag would be overpowered. Make Titans unique goddammit! Also, I think that Titans should be more or less indestructible in a regular engagement. The process of killing a Titan should involve attacking its support infrastructure, which it should require. Like other people suggested, they should be expensive to OWN and MAINTAIN. If you knock out its support infrastructure then it would not be possible to maintain it and you would be able to kill it Anyway, I'm hoping for some ideas here
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:00:00 - [2] The problem is any idea has to account for now when a supernapfriends can field 20+ titans. Then you have to account for 3+ years from now when 100+ titans can be fielded. So their role needs to be fairly limited. imho the only answer is that when enough titans are on grid it creates a wormhole that opens up to when titans were first introduced and removes them from the game.
Lori Carlyle Void Engineers Mass - Effect	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:01:00 - [3] ok own up, Which race titan skillbook did you buy just before you saw the blog? Your ideas while ok if there was 1 titan in system, now think if there was 5 or 10..
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:01:00 - [4] Wrong forum. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:06:00 - [5] Edited by: TimMc on 16/09/2009 17:06:36 Here is my stupid idea of the evening. Titans require fuel from moons to operate/jump/whatever. There is only 1 of these moons in each region. Therefor a region of space can only support one or two titan pilots, unless the titan isnt used while a stockpile is built up (maybe fuel denatures so must be used regularly? too much coding and rubbish probably). Ergo, titans go from being something every big alliance has 20 of, to something that people fight over regions to simply use a single one. I would keep its currently form though, as the AoE explosions are very cool. /edit but yes wrong forum.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:07:00 - [6] Best solution - Remove them, reimburse all SP Related to them. If needs be also reimburse the materials required for them to a random hanger in highsec or something _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Korovyov Cool Story Bro	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:08:00 - [7] Originally by: Crackzilla imho the only answer is that when enough titans are on grid it creates a wormhole that opens up to when titans were first introduced and removes them from the game. My preference would be to bring TomB back from the grave, give him a Jovian invulna-titan, and watch the forums flood with WTFTOMBNUKEDMEH20TITANS! threads.
Aurora Nyx Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:11:00 - [8] Can't believe Chribba hasn't been on to suggest that everyone use Titans for mining Veldspar
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:13:00 - [9] Originally by: TimMc There is only 1 of these moons in each region. Rarity just drives the price up. Now its in the best interest of large alliances to rent out regions to pets with the proceeds of that titan moon as payments. Alliances won't fight over regions for that moon. They'll fight over the moon. They'll take titan moons in other alliances regions with the threat that if the moon is attacked the other alliance will lose everything. In the end large alliances will be the only ones with the resources to use titans. Look at the r64 moons in low sec. Locale doesn't mean much when alliances can move a fleet and hotdrop. Just because you're close to something doesn't mean you own it. Hopefully with sov changes if an alliance can't protect and cover a moon for 8-10 hours a day then it'll be effectively lost to gang that is willing to maintain a constant presence. This way the system rewards who lives there versus who can drop a pos and refuel it.
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.09.16 17:24:00 - [10] Originally by: Aurora Nyx Can't believe Chribba hasn't been on to suggest that everyone use Titans for mining Veldspar This is actually a decent idea. The focus of titans should have been something other then instant and direct damage dealer from the start. Maybe they will add a mothership in the future, that does something like this. At some point we have to stop putting new ships into the game, that basicly just do what every other combat ship does, but only 1 level/size bigger. Even a AOE DOT effect would have been something new and it couldn't be used to do drive-by doomdays, but still maintain some anti-fleet capability.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2009.09.16 18:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Aurora Nyx Can't believe Chribba hasn't been on to suggest that everyone use Titans for mining Veldspar Surely noone in their right mind would do that?!

Hoo Is	Posted - 2009.09.16 18:30:00 - [12] it is an investment... and investment into a super death ray. Here's a twist, make it so the only way to destroy one is to have a frigate fly inside it and destroy the core. All the firepower of 100 fleets can't kill that thing, but one boy from a farm and his Ibis can take it out ---- a reply which adds nothing to a thread or results in a thread being bumped with no new discussion worthy content is considered spam and as such warrants a forum ban
Blake Armitage	Posted - 2009.09.16 18:50:00 - [13] Originally by: Hoo Is it is an investment... and investment into a super death ray. Here's a twist, make it so the only way to destroy one is to have a frigate fly inside it and destroy the core. All the firepower of 100 fleets can't kill that thing, but one boy from a farm and his Ibis can take it out Maybe there could be subsystems on the Titan that you can target and destroy and can only be repaired by a logistics ship. Engines - can't jump or create jump bridges Shield Generators - destroy and bring down the shields Hangars - can't launch drones anymore Weapon Array - can't DD or Smarbomb I'm having flashbacks to taking out ships in X-Wing or Tie Fighter
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.09.16 19:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Blane Xero Best solution - Remove them, reimburse all SP Related to them. If needs be also reimburse the materials required for them to a random hanger in highsec or something Something like this. No one wants to hear it but titans were a stupid idea to begin with(moms too). They will either be useless or so overpowered that they start to break the game sooner or later. I don't particularly like the refund idea though. Better make them useless fluff and don't refund anything. We all have lost countless sp/isk to nerfs. Ofc. the isk/sp amount in a titan is exceptionally large but conceptually its just the same. Not to mention we're talking about pilots that usually own a multitude of accounts with acccumulated sps in the hundreds of millions. Losing 50m of them to a nerf is not a fundamentally different thing than losing 2-4m sp to a regular nerf for someone who has only 20m sp in total. Those titan/mom alts are still going to be exceptional capital or bs pilots. Eat that. :) Personally i'd go even further and nerf dreads/carriers too but thats just me. And yeah I know its not gonna happen so save your 5minutes - I am just voicing my personal (crazy) opinion here. -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2009.09.16 19:47:00 - [15] Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 16/09/2009 19:51:28 Titans should become mobile resort hotels for Incarna, and hold luxurious cruises for socially awkward single EVE pod pilots. There's a big difference between being 'creative', and having good ideas.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.09.16 20:05:00 - [16] CCP has it right. They are shifting the game to provide fun action for more people rather than be a POS bash fest where everyone is a drone except the few in giant ships. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Zarstrax	Posted - 2009.09.16 20:27:00 - [17] One thing I do find amusing about titans is that they were implemented to "break up blobs" if I remember correctly that seemed the initiative that seems to have stopped now. Maybe a script either DD like normal maybe slightly nerfed (more cost) or a script. The script would cause the damage on all the ships is focused on one. So if you warped your titan with the script in and there was one BS and one carrier and you used the focused script and attacked the carrier it would do the same damage as it did to the BS but if there were 100 BS on the gate it would do the same equilivent damage of what you are doing to 100 BS so 100x more. Probably wouldn't work though just thought it sounded cool.
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.09.16 20:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Zarstrax One thing I do find amusing about titans is that they were implemented to "break up blobs" if I remember correctly that seemed the initiative that seems to have stopped now. You arent paying attention then. Currently 0.0 is primarily a series of POS bashes punctuated with super capital encounters. POS bashes are blobs. Dominion aims to reduce the focus on POS bashes thus reducing the blobs. So they are changing the focus of super capitals so they will still be useful. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.09.16 20:52:00 - [19] Originally by: Zarstrax One thing I do find amusing about titans is that they were implemented to "break up blobs" if I remember correctly that seemed the initiative that seems to have stopped now. That was the original idea. The players quickly figured out the best way to counter a titan was with bigger blobs. Then (small) blobs of titans. The best way to break up blobs is for roaming gangs to have an impact. Shooting station services should be much easier. Taking a pos should be about controlling the space for a better part of a week without serous contest. Think faction warfare concepts. If splitting a fleet has a real benefit then blobs will lose their edge.
Southern Suzy Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.16 20:53:00 - [20] Well how about changing DD into a percentage based AOE weapon e.g. 40% of everyone on the grid's tank, this way titans can not be used to mass slaughter entire fleets but can make them weaker so the friendly fleet can take on the remainders who are allready somewhat battered. So wait this is the end of my post allready? I'm not in multiple alliances to spy! I'm in them so I'll always be on the winning team
Atticus Fynch	Posted - 2009.09.16 21:55:00 - [21] TITANS are a status symbol...nothing more.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2009.09.17 00:01:00 - [22] Originally by: Zarstrax One thing I do find amusing about titans is that they were implemented to "break up blobs" They should have been optimized for bumping. Covert Ops pilot gets a warp-in for the Titan in the middle of a blob, Titan warps in, blob is bumped away in all directions at 20,000 kph. *-- He said "The President is near."*
Val Amon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.09.17 03:05:00 - [23] they should give them a high slot refinery to refine ore and allow people to dock and such like a mobile station, I can imagine the sweet fleet battles again where fcs dont have to worry about every cyno and just have 5 hour slugfests since the lag is much better now than the lag was 3 years ago. Bravo bravo
Seluko	Posted - 2009.09.17 03:16:00 - [24] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Zarstrax One thing I do find amusing about titans is that they were implemented to "break up blobs" They should have been optimized for bumping. Covert Ops pilot gets a warp-in for the Titan in the middle of a blob, Titan warps in, blob is bumped away in all directions at 20,000 kph. A whole new type of warfare Would be funny as hell to have a ship class for that.
Noxic	Posted - 2009.09.17 11:14:00 - [25] Edited by: Noxic on 17/09/2009 11:16:32 Originally by: kyrieee I'm sure I'm not the only one who was a bit disappointed at the recent dev blog regarding the capital ships in EVE. The Titan changes in particular aren't really much of a change. Their role in combat is still just to deploy a superweapon. I think the fundamental problem with Titans is rooted in the fact that CCP have taken a normal ship and 'turned it up to eleven'. The idea of having a 100 billion ISK ship that fundamentally functions just like any other ship doesn't work. When you have a regular ship that costs that much it will never be cost effective, because if it were then it would simply be overpowered. I know CCP have stated that Titans were never meant to be cost effective, but that's just a lazy answer. Anything that costs tens or hundreds of billions must be an investment, not a gamble. It's clear that Titans cannot be given abilities to justify their price in a single battle. The obvious solution is: make them justify their price over time Something so expensive should (in my opinion) obviously be something you have around, and use, for quite some time. I don't know what systems CCP have planned for sovereignty in Dominion, but I'm sure Titans could be worked into them. There's been a lot of talk about investing in your space, and I don't see why Titans couldn't be a part of that and give bonuses the way structures will. I'm sure there's a ton of interesting things Titans could be used for to justify an investment, so lets come up with some! Currently they have a huge logistics potential with their jump bridges, and that's a good example of a useful role unique to the Titan. I'm just gonna throw some out there, good or bad, w/e Cloaking field generator: give a Titan the ability cloak ships near it, allowing you to conceal your shiptypes (and with delay local your numbers too) Gate disabling device: allow a Titan to temporarily disable the gates in a system (activation should not be instant). Would allow you to cut off enemy reinforcements 'POS' shield generator, siege module: make a titan temporarily capable of creating shields within which other ships can seek refuge These ideas might be overpowered, but the point is that they're not direct combat abilities. You can't make a Titan a great remote repper, because any remote rep ability that justified the pricetag would be overpowered. Any direct combat ability that justifies the price tag would be overpowered. Make Titans unique goddammit! Also, I think that Titans should be more or less indestructible in a regular engagement. The process of killing a Titan should involve attacking its support infrastructure, which it should require. Like other people suggested, they should be expensive to OWN and MAINTAIN. If you knock out its support infrastructure then it would not be possible to maintain it and you would be able to kill it Anyway, I'm hoping for some ideas here Pfft.. If titans should be boosted then give them like 12 Siege weapon turret slots with a 250% damage bonus modifier per level. that way you get a big ship thats spewing multiple beams of energy or projectiles like they do in the movies.. anyone remember the dreadnought class from X-BTF ? id prefer a titan to be something like that not just a lump of space metal looking like a giant p.e.n.i.s. aka amarr. On another note who wants a superdeath ray beam of energy to come spewing out of the centre of the avatar.. you may as well fully legalise internet p.o.r.n. to all age ranges with the backing of eve online.
Vysnaite	Posted - 2009.09.17 11:36:00 - [26] I'm gonna throw in some ideas, of what I believe a titan should do/be able to do. I have no experience flying one, nor I intend to, but I certainly believe they have to exist. I'm just brainstroming, so I expect only someone to look at it and perhaps take an idea or two they liked. I'd make a titan more of a anti-cpital ship + support. By anti cap I mena give it 6 turret/ or launcher slots, +1 DD - the new version and 1 siege mode. Add +25% dmg per skill level and turret tracking, and same for missiles. Add middle slot for new module, that does not allow ships to warp out, use mwd, jump out (so all ship types from bs,cs to mothers, dreads and other titans, friendly or foe are affected). This eats lots of cap and can't be activated smth like for 5-10 mins after firing DD, and DD can't be activated if this mod was used in past 5-10 mins. Next tie it up with sovereignity system, that you can assign Titan for system defense, thus until it is destroyed or leaves, the system "claim marker" cannot become vulnerable. It has to stay within claim marker range, so you can't log of and it warps off somehwere - if you log, it stays in same place. Perhaps this can only be done in "capital" systems, were you start claiming sov or is considred as "main" base or smth. Just some random ideas.
Mamba Lev The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.17 11:40:00 - [27] Originally by: Hoo Is it is an investment... and investment into a super death ray. Here's a twist, make it so the only way to destroy one is to have a frigate fly inside it and destroy the core. All the firepower of 100 fleets can't kill that thing, but one boy from a farm and his Ibis can take it out WinRAR
Gaelan Lionhardt Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.09.17 11:52:00 - [28] Quote: I don't particularly like the refund idea though. Better make them useless fluff and don't refund anything. Why not have Concord consider using Titans to be war crime and disarm them all, with no Doomsday/Weapon of mass destruction Titans will soon lose there... charm
Ackwell Imperial Pharmacy	Posted - 2009.09.17 12:00:00 - [29] What about if they would limit the offensive capability of the titan but make it kind of a movable outpost you can actually dock into. It could also be an important part of the new sov system. And having a titan have Squadrons of heavy fighters as it's defence. You could get 5 fighter squadron per fighter skill and 5 heavy fighter squadron per new heavy fighter skill totalling 5 squadrons maximum. Of course able to warp with assisted ship inside the system etc. And give good fleet bonuses to own fleet members in system. Or maybe it would give bonuses automatically to all alliance members even when not in fleet. The titan would be always orbiting a planet or a moon in the system it is in requiring active defence even when the pilot is not on. It could be in a some kind of reinforced mode then though... And moving it should be a bigger task somehow. Maybe just by limiting the fuel sources. Just to lay down some wacky ideas. Born in Caldari State Raised by Khanid Kingdom Living for Amarr Empire Dying for Imperial Pharmacy
Normin Bates	Posted - 2009.09.17 12:05:00 - [30] Mobile outpost: Make them Anchorable (Higher HP & auto defensive weapons) Outpost size hanger Larger clone vat Refinery, Jump Bridge etc. active when anchored Have Titans fill the role of mobile forward operating base.

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