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Intelligence forbidden in EVE?

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Zonia	Posted - 2003.06.23 18:51:00 - [1] Now it seems that the people at ccp are now punishing players that happen to be smarter than them and come up with dubious (but not banned) ways to make money. Let me explain, 1: you are flying your brand new badger MK II fully loaded with robotics you bought for 6500 isk a piece. then come some pirates blow you to bits (uncluding your pod) and take the robitics.... suck doesn¦t it, but this is "legal" in the game of EVE, you just lose some sec rating and that is that. 2: Now if you put up a market scam (nr 1 in the news) you gain a little something from the other person but it¦s not like your forcing the other person to buy as you force someone to get killed, it¦s just that people are greedy :). but now the GMs are taking the law of the game in they¦re own hands and taking the money from the scam away from the scammers. What about my badger and 14950000 isk worth robotics? don¦t I get them back? NO! Because killing someone is allowed in the game but conning money from them is not ?!?! This is in my humble opinion just not right. why don¦t the scammers just lose sec rating like in the realworld with white collar crimes? ...just my 5 cents, I think the gms shouldn¦t stick they¦re nose in every little thing on the game ... I don¦t pay money to let someone else tell me how to play the game AFTERWARDS!
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.23 18:56:00 - [2] One con is semi-legit and one is not. The courier mission that cannot be completed is considered an exploit as the entire purpose is to take the collateral fee from the player as they cannot reach the delivery point through any means. The con of creating supply/demand and cancelling the demand on purchase is, and I quote: "This is an underhanded technique, but not one we can interfere with." So, con away :) I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Arko	Posted - 2003.06.23 19:15:00 - [3] no they (the gms) took all our money and intend to take more ... we didn¦t do any courier mission scams..
Greeble	Posted - 2003.06.23 19:40:00 - [4] Actually, the news post tells you how to avoid being conned with the market scam it describes. At no point do they say people doing it are breaking the rules, just that they're unscrupulous. Fair enough ;) The thing that CCP say ISN'T allowed is exploiting a flaw in the courier contract generation tool to make money by putting up impossible-to-complete contracts. Yeah, what the first reply said, had I but read it ahead of posting. Edited by: Greeble on 23/06/2003 19:41:43 - Greeble Polaris BugHunter
Zonia	Posted - 2003.06.23 20:07:00 - [5] but I am saying you that some gms (fate and Caztor) have told me that this is illegal and have taken money from my friends account because of this! tha marketing scam that is! and they tell me that they¦ll reverse ALL the tranactions
Nevron	Posted - 2003.06.23 20:27:00 - [6] I agree with Zonia. If they are going to have some sort of a legalsystem it should atleast be visible so people know what to expect in situations like this. How would player-pirates feel if concord used invisible ships that killid everyone in one shot and there was no way of escapeing it?
Zonia	Posted - 2003.06.24 12:29:00 - [7] Are you telling me people that it doesn¦t bother you that the GMs in eve can just put the law of the game in their own hands and take money from the wallets of players just because they feel like it?!?!?!?
Blackout	Posted - 2003.06.24 12:52:00 - [8] Yes Zonia -Perfer at obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.06.24 13:18:00 - [9] spot on. You pull exploit scams, and you will be punished. I don't have a problem with it. And the GM's didn't 'take the power' CCP gave it to them to stop this rather weak practice. The worst thing about it is that they have to step in at all. But then life ain't perfect. Edited by: drunkenmaster on 24/06/2003 13:19:42 .
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.06.24 13:26:00 - [10] "re you telling me people that it doesn¦t bother you that the GMs in eve can just put the law of the game in their own hands and take money from the wallets of players just because they feel like it?!?!?!?" I like the fact that CCP steps in and punishes greifers like you. I don't have a problem with it at all. "Trust No One"
Nevron	Posted - 2003.06.24 13:32:00 - [11] I would like to remind you that we took advantage of people playing the game not of some built-in flaw
Game	Posted - 2003.06.24 13:43:00 - [12] If you were caught for a confidence scam in the UK, you would have your cash/possessions taken away to the amount of the sums "con'd". In real life the bailiffs do it, here, the GM's are the bailiffs. You do a white collar crime, you pay the white collar price.
Immacolata	Posted - 2003.06.24 13:46:00 - [13] I think it's weak that GMs interfere in this at all. It's a con, yes, isn't this a cut throat m0o-eats-n00b kind of world? Im all up for it. Rather than having gm yank people's chains, make a clever counter to it. I think it's valid and removign it would just detract another fun aspect of Eve.
Nevron	Posted - 2003.06.24 14:08:00 - [14] Game, If an organization killed god-knows-how-many-m0o-has-podded of US citizens in the real world and their whereabouts was known, US government would stop at nothing to bring them all down. Has this happened in eve? NO. I¦m sorry to say, but eve cant be just like the real world or there would be no game
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.24 14:16:00 - [15] << Are you telling me people that it doesn¦t bother you that the GMs in eve can just put the law of the game in their own hands and take money from the wallets of players just because they feel like it?!?!?!? >> Zonia, if what you claim is true then it bothers me very much. If you or your friends pulled that supply/demand scam and had the money taken from your accounts, it goes expressedly against what was told to the entire playerbase. Now does CCP want to answer this one? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
GM Regius	Posted - 2003.06.24 15:49:00 - [16] I would like to point to the SCC that is very well described in an POTW http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/feb01-02.asp . As you may read there SCC is ensuring safe trade and may interact when fraud is discovered. Hope this clarifies the cause of this interaction. Regius Edited by: GM Regius on 24/06/2003 15:49:21 Edited by: GM Regius on 24/06/2003 16:26:08 best regards, Regius Division Manager EVE Online Customer Support Get support: http://support.eve-online.com/cgi-bin/eve_online.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.24 16:00:00 - [17] << Hope this clarifies the cause of this interaction. Regius >> Makes it as clear as mud. The news specifically states that "This is an underhanded technique, but not one we can interfere with.". Yet you're saying you did just interfere, aren't you? I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Tigersbane	Posted - 2003.06.24 16:05:00 - [18] "may interact when freud is discovered." Is this an example of a fraudulent slip? :)
Dearth	Posted - 2003.06.24 16:27:00 - [19] Sigmund was a Griefer.
Zonia	Posted - 2003.06.24 19:26:00 - [20] so yes you say that I should be punished for this well ok, put what about pirates? in the real world if you attack someone and beat them up the victim gets money from the attacker when he or she is convicted. and another thing it didn¦t say ANYWHERE!! that this was not allowed, now that it has been said I agree we should let all future transactions from this market scam go back. but why reverse them far back in the past? it¦s not my fault I found a good way to make money. But what does this do in the future if someone finds a good way to make lots og money... will that be banned too? or won¦t it? ... we won¦t know!!! so please tell us in advance what we can and cannot do!!!!
Acix	Posted - 2003.06.24 23:29:00 - [21] Zonia you scammed the hell out of people. I don't care if you think it was a good way to make money. Would you really like it if someone scammed you out of 10 mil of hard earned isk, made from low end mining when you were a noob. I really think you should have had your account banned. You screwed people and you try to compair that to pirates killing people. I have yet to be held up for any money/killed for cargo or podded since the first week of playing EVE. I send out a scout about two jumps ahead of me in a pathetic reaper or rifter. I pay the clone fee for my partner if they are podded by the pirates. My indy gets though un-touched because I can take precautions. You scammed people for a lot of meney in a way they had no idea how to take precautions for. Now everyone should know, but you can still get taken if you aren't careful and just go for the low end goods. What I am trying to say is that the pirates can be avoided and this scam cannot because it can be very well hidden. I hope that CCP takes your isk and places it in a fund for podded noob's. HAHA SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts. For more info click below http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313
Amandyke	Posted - 2003.06.25 01:46:00 - [22] You really have no reason to complain. You fell for a classic scheme. It's your own fault for falling for it. Ever notice how the quick ways to make money are usually the scams? Hopefully this is a lesson to you. Don't fall for cheap tricks. I think that what he did is perfectly OK. If not for the simple reason that is was a SIMPLE plot. It's like fishing. You lure the fish in. Hook it, and voila, the deed is done. But is fishing illegal? On the contrary it's encouraged. I don't think that it should be encouraged to do this. But I don't think that GM intervention is necessary. The news post was FINE. Inform the players that this sort of thing is happening. And let them LEARN to heed warnings. Playing babysitter wont help to further this game. Allowing truely dynamic gameplay and only interviening when cheating occurs will further this game. My vote is reinstate the players money, and slap them on the wrist for being bad. Don't take adverse action.
Ansuul	Posted - 2003.06.25 05:58:00 - [23] Just as in RL, market mechanics can not prevent fraud. In RL, we have the legal system to handle it, and it is called upon regularly to do so. In Eve, we have GMs--ok it may be inconsistent and heavy handed at times (and the RL legal system isn't?), but it is probably the best solution to a lot of possible ways to defraud someone. This isn't to say that market mechanics shouldn't be changed if it is simple to do so. Edited by: Ansuul on 25/06/2003 05:58:32
DarkRift	Posted - 2003.06.25 06:27:00 - [24] Quote: How is this an exploit? They sell high buy higher and cancle when you buy...what if someone buys from somewhere else and just sells it to you....you get burned thats what. Wrong. You get screwed again because that alt that placed the buy order has no money to begin with.
Game	Posted - 2003.06.25 09:11:00 - [25] Well, imho the market is pretty screwy. At each station you should be able to see who has put in market bids for what stocks. If you know someone to be a rogue trader you can just ignore their trades. This means that you could also choose which trade you wish to fill, so if you are mining for a specific corp as a freelancer you can sell to them. Come on, if you go to a market and see all the prices available, you will ALWAYS know who you are buying off. Also, why was the zoom function disabled on the market map?
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.06.25 09:28:00 - [26] What happen with the items if you sell it to a person who has no money? __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
M0RPHEUS	Posted - 2003.06.25 10:17:00 - [27] To regius: Why hasn't the "peek of the week" updated for a month now? Ask me nicely and I won't pod you...
Myrmex	Posted - 2003.06.25 11:47:00 - [28] one thnig i'd have to say if scam like this is illegal why then can a people scam another putting a buy order with number looking strangely like the average cost of an item but at like 1/10 of his real price ( if you look fast and do a quick sell ) say a opsrey at 4,570 000 and someone seeling 4,570 000 FOR 1 ISK ... if that isnt a scam then what it is ?
Validus	Posted - 2003.06.25 11:57:00 - [29] fantastic! down with rip off merchants in with pirates!
Nevron	Posted - 2003.06.25 12:35:00 - [30] We like to be called "market pirates" :)

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