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SuiJuris 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.09.21 04:13:00 - [1] And Pray tell me, what happens when 2 AF's meet 2 cruisers?, or 2+ AF's meet any equel number of a larger class of ship huh? so what if they can MURDER larger ships 1v1, IF i had to bet on 10 Harbingers vs 10 AF's guess where my money is? in group pvp you CANNOT maintain a orbit on 1 target while maintaining transversal on other targets. Great concept eh, and btw if they are effing scram fit they CANNOT CAMP A GATE SOLO. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
SuiJuris 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.09.21 13:17:00 - [2] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Ignore the Ghoest fellow. He is answering questions that were never asked, use arguments that were never made and avoids answering any challenges that does not fit his world view - all the characteristics of a troll. Originally by: SuiJuris <The Gang/Fleet Argument Unless the two larger ship have the prerequisite minimum of 2-3 webs, lots of light drones, points and neuts available they will die. It will require an unnaturally high level of cooperation between them (moving away from eachother for transversal negation etc.). If they are able to do this AND have the necessary modules then they win, but it is a longshot since unintuitive thinking/actions like moving away from buddies being attacked is a rare and hard learned skill. Why would 10 AFs engage 10 Harbingers unless they were TD wielding Ishkurs using rails? It is the same argument as saying that 10 BS would die attacking 10 Carriers, its a useless hypothetical scenario that will never happen. At any rate, scaling up gang/fleet sizes can ALWAYS be used to counter anything, it is the basis for the blob. One of the reasons the Titan changes are such a hot topic at the moment 1 is fine, 5 nearly OP Focusing a fleets heavy firepower on tackle is a sure fire way of losing a battle. By the time you down one half your ship are vaporized to the other sides dps .. Scrams with 1.5-2k/s are perfectly fine for normal gates, on AB burst is enough for overheated scram to land - your lock probably wont finish though, but that is unrelated to issue. Unusual amount of cooperation? You mean looking to see which one he is orbiting and having the second cruiser burn away to decrease transversal and increase range further decreasing the .... oh yea thats too complicated for most wow players to figure out... This is eve. THAT can be done even if neither of them have a web and if both of them have 1 web chance are 1 af is dead and the second is going to run away. Seriously it is impossible to orbit 1 target and do ANYTHING to it, especially orbit at Autocannon range and keep transversal up on a second target. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
SuiJuris 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.09.21 14:56:00 - [3] Wow maybe you fly with some terrible pilots but its pretty straight forward to burn away from someone to decrease transversal. And thats if both the cruisers didn't have a web and chances are PvP Fit cruisers will have 1 web each. 9 out of 10 times 2 cruiser sized ships murder 2 af's so what if there amazing solo provided your target doesn't have 1 friend for backup. and in a fleet you simply would IGNORE the AF's until you murdered all the big damage dealers they have then murder the AF's last. Tanking is not a roll and there DPS isn't too frightening. You guys cry end of the world because the AF is going to be a great solo boat, bar it doesn't run into more then 1 target, or any gang with a Sentinel, or a Curse, or a Assault Missile launcher ship. also HAVE YOU Tried tackling on gate with a scrambler? I have in a Scram fit inty, catching a battlecruiser isn't a sure thing and catching a Cruiser is Iffy at best. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
SuiJuris 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.09.21 21:00:00 - [4] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Khandahar Bob Reality called. He wants you to know that a 25% speed increase (yes, that is what this is -- the bonus is not to speed, it's to the afterburner speed modifier) to an assault frigate is not game breaking. He also wanted to let you know that it's not an agility increase and so any assault ship in a tight orbit will still be going exactly the same speed as before the new bonus. He'd also like to high-five the guy who said that really the only difference now is that assault ship will be able to catch/escape MWD cruisers with a little more ease. Reality called - you can fit istabs or nanos and get more agility at higher speeds. -Liang Reality called again, once more then 2 ships are involved the AF's arn't all that stunning. OMG I CAN solo a battleship in HAC, but 2 hac's can't solo 2 battleships. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
SuiJuris 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.09.21 21:54:00 - [5] Edited by: SuiJuris on 21/09/2009 21:54:13 Originally by: goazer Edited by: goazer on 21/09/2009 21:52:55 Edited by: goazer on 21/09/2009 21:51:07 Shocking... Think about interceptors. Strap a faction scrambler into Jaguar... That goes like...eleventybillion ms after that change? EDIT: [Jaguar, Jaguar ] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Power Diagnostic System II 1MN Afterburner II Medium Shield Extender II Small Shield Extender II Warp Scrambler II 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot] Small Core Defence Field Extender II Small Core Defence Field Extender II With that 75% total bonus this thing could do with HG snake set over 2700 ms...with nearly 10k EHP tank... EDIT2: With two 60% webs hitting that thing, it would still go faster than most interceptors without their MWD on And Vega's still go faster, have more slots, do more damage... oh and have WAY more hitpoints. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
SuiJuris 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.09.21 22:00:00 - [6] Originally by: goazer Originally by: SuiJuris And Vega's still go faster, have more slots, do more damage... oh and have WAY more hitpoints. Does your vaga have 47.1 m^2 signal radius too? Nope, but it can still engage and kill a wider variety of targets then your Jag can, and it won't be sub par to a t1 cruiser once more then 2 ships are involved, unlike your jag. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
SuiJuris 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.09.21 22:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Mystical Dawn Originally by: SuiJuris Originally by: goazer Originally by: SuiJuris And Vega's still go faster, have more slots, do more damage... oh and have WAY more hitpoints. Does your vaga have 47.1 m^2 signal radius too? Nope, but it can still engage and kill a wider variety of targets then your Jag can, and it won't be sub par to a t1 cruiser once more then 2 ships are involved, unlike your jag. Still waiting to figure out your point of this yabbering about more than two ships and HACs in AF thread. Does not compute. I mean that.... NO ** SHERLOCK?! Everyone is **ing and moaning about these new AF's being the end of the world of EVE as we know it. I'm trying to bring some sense to these threads telling people that once its not a 1v1 there not impressive. So what if there great solo boats that are hard to catch in a gatecamp and can engage and slowly kill a wide variety of targets provided the engagement remains a 1v1. Haven't we been asking for a boost to solo pvp for a while now? Quit all your whineing and theorycrafting in a gang your AF, brings something that will quickly slow things down and keep them from re approaching the gate AFTER the inty gets the initial tackle, it will also bring between 100-300 DPS max, which is less then a T1 cruiser significantly less. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
SuiJuris 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.09.22 13:01:00 - [8] Branko, I can aggree whole heartedly that looking at them each individually would be better then this blanket boost. Enyo will still be good but completely outshined by a Ishkur. Hawk just doesn't have the fitting to compete, also a resistance bonus to shields would be much better then a active tanking bonus as you could then active tank or passive tank it. Harpy seems fine to me right now. Retribution, unless it gets a tracking bonus or a second midslot, will have trouble not getting owned by anything that can web and orbit it. (right now you don't even need to web it in a inty most times, after the ab nerf you probably will.) Vengeance uses lol rockets and BOTH amarr AF's are too fat. Jag, is Amazing as is right now, I like MWD's on the damn things because you can overheat and catch a ceptor , Wolf I'm less inclined to liking but its just because I started life as a Amarr spec'd player and crave midslots. ALL that being said, I don't think the Jag will be Overpowered after these changes. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
SuiJuris 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.09.22 19:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: SuiJuris ALL that being said, I don't think the Jag will be Overpowered after these changes. You're 100% wrong on this. If these changes go through, I probably won't leave a Jag until they get nerfed to hell. -Liang Liang, yes it will be a amazing 1v1 boat. Once your fighting more then 1 person a bigger ship would almost always be more useful, and you will be relagated to glorified secondary tackler. Yes you will be useful in larger gangs but your not going to turn the fight around where another Battlecruiser can. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons

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