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Uber killjoy exploit! Invalid noob good-for-nothing-else'ers take note

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Joe Starbreaker Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2009.09.20 21:36:00 - [31] So, let's get this straight. You're... ... flying a faction-fit battleship ... mission-running in Dodixie; ... providing free tears; I think only two questions remain to be asked: What do you usually name your ship? What type of faction modules do you fit (and approximate value please)?
Msgerbs Gallente Imperial Assualt Guild Raikiri Assasins	Posted - 2009.09.20 21:40:00 - [32] Originally by: Sq7 Suggested fix C =============== Take away these missions where you don't get bounty or add bounty rewards for them. Or since they are against faction ships give LP. Give something. This is the only good suggestion here. ------ C&P wannabe
Sq7	Posted - 2009.09.20 21:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Msgerbs Originally by: Sq7 Suggested fix C =============== Take away these missions where you don't get bounty or add bounty rewards for them. Or since they are against faction ships give LP. Give something. This is the only good suggestion here. Yes!! Somebody got it right! This is exactly the point I was trying to make. To Gen Paul: You are right. If it's but a bug then I agree. As a programmer I have a lot of empathy for fellow programmers and are very lenient on bugs, because there is no such thing as bug free software. As long as a program can do what I need it to do I can ignore the occasional crash if it's not too obvious (aka sloppy) for example. I think this was actually built in though.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.09.20 22:05:00 - [34] Originally by: Sq7 Did somebody bribe CONCORDE or something? And if they did. Hell yeah! That would make sense. At least it'll cost something to do and have more of a strategic side to it. But calling it an actual tactic is laughable. That's like saying raiding Willy Wonka's magical chocolate factory is a "tactic". It's not tactic, it was an unintended side effect of a minor game mechanic change. CCP decided to stick with it for some reason. Seems to me some faction inside ccp has an anarchy complex. "People should be able to do whatever they want short of killing someone with no consequences." Whatever the reason, they bend over backwards to keep this unintended "mechanic" in the game. I've been saying exactly what you are since they broke loot with the salvage patch. You won't get much sympathy here though. The people that love to ninja also love to flame on the forums. Go figure.
Woodwraith Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.09.20 22:08:00 - [35] Originally by: Lear Hepburn Originally by: Sq7 You imply there is something I must learn. OK teach me dude. What do I not know? What can you do when somebody salvages your wrecks? They're not your wrecks. quotin dis as it obviously hasn't sunk in. _________________________________
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.09.20 22:15:00 - [36] Yer not gonna convince anyone that thinks you are stealing from them that you aren't by saying "not your wrecks". There are quite a few indications and precedences that support ownership. It's the same arguement they used to use for jet/loot cans. "It's in a garbage can, so it must be trash. Everyone should have the right to take garbage." That argument failed too.
Sq7	Posted - 2009.09.20 22:28:00 - [37] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Seems to me some faction inside ccp has an anarchy complex. I hear you there man. Funny when you think how they are planning on revamping the sov and capital ship system now since basically "Just too damned much monotonous carbon copy brawling going on in 0sec" The anarchy devision should realize that some of what they like is good, but anarchy is just a social manifestation of entropy. Inescapable yes, but left unchecked in the form of complete anarchy it just leads to nothing - literally. And that's no good at all.
Chi Quan Bibkor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.09.20 22:32:00 - [38] Originally by: Lear Hepburn They're not your wrecks. good perception there, neither do they belong to the ninjas, they are ccps. Originally by: General Paul Hmm, the solution for your problem exists, mission in lowsec. NO, pray to "Banjo the Clown", this is the solution!! (see, i can make nonsensical suggestions as well) Originally by: General Paul I think these guys stealing your lewts are actually 0.0 or lowsec folk (or maybe even other mission runner in the same system as you) who are bored with the monotony of their career in eve, and fancy taking that out on someone else. another case of good perception. welcome to 0.0, where ppl screw others over out of boredom using broken game mechanics. and you actually wonder why there are so many ppl in highsec? Originally by: Joe Starbreaker * ... flying a faction-fit battleship * ... mission-running in Dodixie; * ... providing free tears; * nope - how does this contribute to or against being ninjaed? * nope - Dodixie is not the only palgued area * unfortunately yes, but can't do anything about ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare Gypsy Nation	Posted - 2009.09.20 22:35:00 - [39] Originally by: Sq7 Edited by: Sq7 on 20/09/2009 18:47:36 This is your big chance zero risk almost zero skill needed can do it in a noob frigate costs nothing to do huge payoff **es everybody off wastes everybodies time Sure to get you flamed all over the local chats zero risk zero risk etc... Where else do you get that. It's called ninja salvaging. Start today - Before you know it you'll have enough isk to buy all those things you can't use yet. Example: ======== On a regular basis people get lvl4 missions against enemy faction ships. They get no bounty and have to spend half an hour popping 30 BS just to finish the mission and make 2mil isk and a bit of LP. You on the other hand stand to make up to 20mil. Oh yay, another one of these.... First of all, if you are running level 4 missions and only making 2 mil, you are doing something HORRIBLY wrong. You should be making about 2mil every time bounties hit. If someone is making 20 off of salvage then some god loves them. I'm sure this is possible, but it's the upper end of payment that I've never seen. Zero Risk: Mission runner warps off, you get aggro'd and alpha'd because your in your noob ship. You warp into Recon 3 of 3 and get pop'd. You get primaries by a new spawn, popped again. Even if you don't get alpha'd there are quite a few level 4 missions with warp scrams. Almost Zero skill: True, all you -need- are salvages and scanners, but unless you want to spend all day scanning someone down, and then all day salvaging one mission, and all day moving between wreaks, you need to put at least a month of skills into afterburners, ships, possibly expanded cargo bays, overdrive injectors, salvage to 4 or 5, and scanning skills to at least 4. Can do it in a noob frig: again, the bare minimum. I've yet to see anyone try this and it would be a long and painful process to do. Not to mention I don't think you can fit an expanded probe launcher needed to find your ship on one, though I admit, I've never tried to fit one. Costs nothing to do: Neither do missions, plexes, or mining. I assume you mean after you put the initial isk into buying the ships and equipment. Even if you do it in the free noob frigate, you still need to buy probes, probe launchers, salvagers, etc. Huge payoff: I've tried ninja salvaging once, and yes I have the above discussed skills and ships to do it correctly. I found one guy that was doing a level 3, payoff was around 2 mil, and one guy doing a level 4 that popped all his wreaks. So I made 2 mil in the course of about 3 hours. Granted I wasn't in a mission hub, so maybe that's why. If you are in a mission hub how about moving? The ISK/Hour of ninja salvaging is alright for new players, but if your already doing level 4's, trust me, you have the upper hand. **es everyone off: Good. I think I'll try to find you for making annoying posts about something that's has more topics than anything else in this game. Wastes everybody time: I really don't see how any of this wastes anyone elses time... Get you flamed: This is usually what they want, so don't flame them, simple fix. Zero Risk: You've entered broken record mode. And I'm out of characters. Your example is horrible, most of your "facts" are wrong, and you're reposing a topic that's been discussed a hundred times. Its not changing, it never will change, and I hope you catch herpes for dragging this through the forums again, DIAF!
Sq7	Posted - 2009.09.20 22:56:00 - [40] Originally by: BeanBagKing I see I have to explain some things here... First of all, if you are running level 4 missions and only making 2 mil, you are doing something HORRIBLY wrong. You should be making about 2mil every time bounties hit. If someone is making 20 off of salvage then some god loves them. I'm sure this is possible, but it's the upper end of payment that I've never seen. Some missions you get no bounty at all. This is the problem. Zero Risk: Mission runner warps off, you get aggro'd and alpha'd because your in your noob ship. You warp into Recon 3 of 3 and get pop'd. You get primaries by a new spawn, popped again. Even if you don't get alpha'd there are quite a few level 4 missions with warp scrams. You mean I have to hope that I get ninjaed in a mission where there is warp scram/webbing and hope the guy is slow enough to get caught when I warp out. Almost Zero skill: True, all you -need- are salvages and scanners, but unless you want to spend all day scanning someone down, and then all day salvaging one mission, and all day moving between wreaks, you need to put at least a month of skills into afterburners, ships, possibly expanded cargo bays, overdrive injectors, salvage to 4 or 5, and scanning skills to at least 4. Wow a whole month... Can do it in a noob frig: again, the bare minimum. I've yet to see anyone try this and it would be a long and painful process to do. Not to mention I don't think you can fit an expanded probe launcher needed to find your ship on one, though I admit, I've never tried to fit one. Probably right there. I did not consider that they might need to fork out a full 500k isk to get going. Costs nothing to do: Neither do missions, plexes, or mining. I assume you mean after you put the initial isk into buying the ships and equipment. Even if you do it in the free noob frigate, you still need to buy probes, probe launchers, salvagers, etc. As compared to the 300 odd mil invested in my BS you mean... Huge payoff: I've tried ninja salvaging once, and yes I have the above discussed skills and ships to do it correctly. I found one guy that was doing a level 3, payoff was around 2 mil, and one guy doing a level 4 that popped all his wreaks. So I made 2 mil in the course of about 3 hours. Granted I wasn't in a mission hub, so maybe that's why. If you are in a mission hub how about moving? The ISK/Hour of ninja salvaging is alright for new players, but if your already doing level 4's, trust me, you have the upper hand. Let me explain the rewards of a serious mission runner to you. For a decent mission I make 20 mil in bounty, about 5-10 (so I was exxagerating kill me) mil in salvage, anywhere from 5-20 mil from the loot depending on how lucky I am. So anyway. I think my point is clear that even an average ninja can make a lot from following me around. Much more than a noob certainly deserves to make (in my opinion).. And yes. Complete and utter noobs do it too. I had a guy the other day who has been playing since July ninja'ing me in a firetail. A firetail... After 3 months of play. Scanning is easy. Don't waste your breath trying to convince me it's not. You can even do it with poor skills. Trust me I know. All you need is half a brain. Moving on... ****es everyone off: Good. I think I'll try to find you for making annoying posts about something that's has more topics than anything else in this game. What will you do to me when you find me? I'm in empire friend. And it's hard to suicide a BS. Mine is definitely harder than most as well
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.20 23:03:00 - [41] Originally by: Sq7 I'm going to turn that on you. The solution lies in forcing noob salvagers to actually train some decent skills and buy decent ships. If they are still inclined towards PvP then they can then join a good lowsec or 0sec corp. Why would they do that when its just as profitable and rather safer to salvage level 4 mission wrecks? And I find your repeated attempts to brand all salvagers as "noobs" particularly funny.
Sq7	Posted - 2009.09.20 23:11:00 - [42] Originally by: Uronksur Suth Why would they do that when its just as profitable and rather safer to salvage level 4 mission wrecks? And I find your repeated attempts to brand all salvagers as "noobs" particularly funny. You argue like my sister. Round and round the wheel goes. Read what he said! It was in response to a comment that was implying that mechanics in the game that encourage people to stay in empire are bad. So... Do you think it's good that they are encouraged to stay in empire? Maybe they're not all noobs, but I show info on all the ninjas I encounter and they generally are a fresh bunch. Lol I still fondly recall the one guy who was trying to convice me that he usually makes more in T2 salvage from gate camps, but that he was just doing it to **** me off. Worst is that I ended up getting most of the salvage in that mission, because he just couldn't fly.
Woodwraith Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.09.20 23:20:00 - [43] Originally by: Chi Quan good perception there, neither do they belong to the ninjas, they are ccps. They belong to who ever gets them first, this has been stated and restated by the devs ad naseum. _________________________________
Komi Toran	Posted - 2009.09.20 23:20:00 - [44] You know, I haven't ninja salvaged that much, but every time I have, it's been because of threads like these. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some names to run locators on... lots of delicious isotopes in those mission runner tears.
Sq7	Posted - 2009.09.20 23:30:00 - [45] Originally by: Komi Toran You know, I haven't ninja salvaged that much, but every time I have, it's been because of threads like these. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some names to run locators on... lots of delicious isotopes in those mission runner tears. Isotopes? Ok... Come along. As long as you don't find me in the missions where there is no bounty I could not care less. Enjoy the scanning. I know how boring that can be.
Woodwraith Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.09.20 23:36:00 - [46] Originally by: Sq7 As long as you don't find me in the missions where there is no bounty I could not care less. That you would perceive control or influence over what he does and when he finds you is telling. _________________________________
Sq7	Posted - 2009.09.20 23:46:00 - [47] Originally by: Woodwraith That you would perceive control or influence over what he does and when he finds you is telling. Yeah. It says exactly what this whole topic is about. So... was I saying, what I was saying, what I was saying all along? Or do you think that I was just idly giving you a space to insert your Freudian 1 1/2 cent's worth? Does it say anything about my mother do you think? Do you think I was breast fed or not? C-Section or natural birth? Is it linked to a possible lack of sex or a desire to just get more than I'm already getting? -_-
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.20 23:56:00 - [48] Originally by: Sq7 Originally by: Woodwraith That you would perceive control or influence over what he does and when he finds you is telling. Yeah. It says exactly what this whole topic is about. So... was I saying, what I was saying, what I was saying all along? Or do you think that I was just idly giving you a space to insert your Freudian 1 1/2 cent's worth? Does it say anything about my mother do you think? Do you think I was breast fed or not? C-Section or natural birth? Is it linked to a possible lack of sex or a desire to just get more than I'm already getting? -_- We find it indicative of the stereotypical carebear attitude that they can do whatever they want and be safe from non-consensual interactions with other players such as war decs, PvP, suicide ganking, ninja salvaging, scams etc. and that CCP is obligated to alter the game mechanic for their maximum convenience (and profit).
Woodwraith Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:04:00 - [49] I'd flame you back, but i fear getting the thread locked and letting your bleeding heart clot and heal. Salvage was designed, from its outset, to be free rights to anyone who got it, the name they used is not an accident. The mini profession that's sprung up is exactly what was intended. I can't recall how many times they've stated it. If you want to profit from the mission salvage either: a. salvage it first b. mission in low/null sec, where you'll have all the relevant tools to stop/kill said salvagers to the best of your ability. zero risk - eh, in high sec, ok, the risk in minimal and restricted to a rat respawn in the mission area almost zero skill needed - the skills in SP aren't epic, but nor are they trivial, the skills at scanning to find someone in a timely manner and make decent isk/hr at it are certainly not trivial. can do it in a noob frigate - find me someone that both scanned down your mish and salvaged it with just a noob ship costs nothing to do - there is an investment in the covops and fittings to find you, if you have an income source with a higher overhead than someone else, well, thats your problem isn't it. huge payoff - thats relative to what you consider huge, I dont do it because I don't consider the "huge" payoff to be worth my time ***es everybody off - this is a payoff, more than the isk from the salvage material* wastes everybodies time - obviously not a waste of his time if he keeps doing it to people eh? Sure to get you flamed all over the local chats - again, better payoff than the isk could ever be. _________________________________
Sq7	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:07:00 - [50] Originally by: Uronksur Suth We find it indicative of the stereotypical carebear attitude that they can do whatever they want and be safe from non-consensual interactions with other players such as war decs, PvP, suicide ganking, ninja salvaging, scams etc. and that CCP is obligated to alter the game mechanic for their maximum convenience (and profit). Ahem... As has already been stated the ninja salvaging issue is a side-effect of another change that was made. It's a bug therefore. Anyway... You've only played for 5 months so basically all you know is the new exploit (now waiting for the garbage about this being your 3rd alt after 4 years playing you just so happen to suddenly had an uncontrollable urge to start shooting rocks in a really l33t way).
Lord Kazuhiro	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:12:00 - [51] Let me start off by saying I agree ninja salvagers are one of the lowest lifeforms in eve. With that said, it's very easy to avoid them, or prevent them from getting anything. 1. Mission AWAY from the mission hubs. 2. Do level 4's with a corpmate/friend. They go by much easier, less risk, and you can salvage while you fight. 3. As others mentioned, use a marauder/nightmare. They have 2 or more spare highslots for a salvager + tractor beam. 4. Have a buddy/alt stay outside the mission in a gank fit ship of choice. And kill + pod the first ninja you see. I have an entire alt account just for this. (With a orca you can keep using -10.0 alts. No need to make new ones.) Not a cheap method, but very fun. 5. And finally, if you absolutely must, you can do what some do and shoot the wrecks before they get to them. Although it's not a very good idea, as you'll lose the loot also. But some like this method. I can agree it makes no sense why CCP think loot should be property and the wreck the loot is in should not be. But then a LOT of things CCP do make absolutely no sense. You just have to adapt or tell them you don't like it with you wallet. Most of us adapt and just mock them.
Woodwraith Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:17:00 - [52] Originally by: Sq7 Ahem... As has already been stated the ninja salvaging issue is a side-effect of another change that was made. It's a bug therefore. Name the change that you think has generated this 'bug'. I'm waiting with baited breath. _________________________________
Chi Quan Bibkor Enterprises	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Woodwraith Originally by: Chi Quan good perception there, neither do they belong to the ninjas, they are ccps. They belong to who ever gets them first, this has been stated and restated by the devs ad naseum. you fail at reading comprehension ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Sq7 Ahem... As has already been stated the ninja salvaging issue is a side-effect of another change that was made. It's a bug therefore. See here: Linkage, scroll down until you see the CCP post Originally by: GM Faolchu This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Originally by: Sq7 Anyway... You've only played for 5 months so basically all you know is the new exploit (now waiting for the garbage about this being your 3rd alt after 4 years playing you just so happen to suddenly had an uncontrollable urge to start shooting rocks in a really l33t way). Um, thats true, I played for about 2 months back in 2007, then quit, and came back about 5 months ago, although I'm a little disturbed that you bothered to look that up. And I'm a little confused by your sense of elitism, as if your playing longer makes my observations (and ability to use google to discover that CCP has explicitly endorsed ninja salvaging) invalid.
JordanParey Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:23:00 - [55] I feel obligated to direct you to this post. CCP stating that they love ninjas for having a creative playstyle: CCP Endorsement of Suddenly Ninjas and ninjas everywhere
Woodwraith Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:24:00 - [56] Originally by: Chi Quan Originally by: Woodwraith Originally by: Chi Quan good perception there, neither do they belong to the ninjas, they are ccps. They belong to who ever gets them first, this has been stated and restated by the devs ad naseum. you fail at reading comprehension Considering CCP owns the servers and everything recorded therein its astronomically moot to try to make a distinction between a nuetrally tagged item and 'Its CCP's'. My original statement is completely correct. Fail some more. _________________________________
Sq7	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:43:00 - [57] Originally by: Woodwraith I'd flame you back, but i fear getting the thread locked and letting your bleeding heart clot and heal. My heart is just fine thank you friend. I don't have sleepless nights about all the stupid carebears in eve who don't want to come out and play with me. If you had read carefully then you would realise that what you have said has already been said here and is actually off topic as far as I'm concerned. I will however respond to your comment in kind. Your part of a very tired crowd man. The freeloader lobby. The most ardent arguments for controlling the way Eve should be comes from you guys. You just don't get it that what you want is exactly why 0sec is so boring these days. The moment there's a lazy way to make a buck you defend it for dear life. Your probably frustrated that you can't sleep yourself into a position to pull off a decent corporate scam. If you are in 0sec then I have to say it's a sad existence at the moment. You can't really even use proper ships there. You can fly them, but it means nothing. So the RPG experience has definitely taken a hit there. Battles have degenerated into lolcomms. It's exactly why they are going to change it so that people have an incentive to do more than the same thing over and over and over again in 0sec. There's going to be more rules. Player rules that's a given as it is the 0sec sandbox, but rules none the less. And I think eventually they will fix this 'unintended feature'. It was the same for jet-canning, it was the same for the Monty, etc... etc... High-sec is high-sec... Anyway... I'll check back to gauge the troll-well thought out opinion ratio in the morning. Gotta get some zzz's or I'm toast tomorrow.
Woodwraith Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:49:00 - [58] Originally by: Sq7 "Words that have nothing to do with the OP and a weak ad hominem attack against my supposed playstyle" Originally by: Sq7 Ahem... As has already been stated the ninja salvaging issue is a side-effect of another change that was made. It's a bug therefore. Anyway... You've only played for 5 months so basically all you know is the new exploit (now waiting for the garbage about this being your 3rd alt after 4 years playing you just so happen to suddenly had an uncontrollable urge to start shooting rocks in a really l33t way). I'll ask again: Name the change that you think has generated this 'bug'. _________________________________
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:50:00 - [59] I find it a little disturbing that Sq7 ignored all the previous posts which quotes CCP specifically endorsing ninja salvaging and still called it an "unintended feature".
JordanParey Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.09.21 00:55:00 - [60] Originally by: Uronksur Suth I find it a little disturbing that Sq7 ignored all the previous posts which quotes CCP specifically endorsing ninja salvaging and still called it an "unintended feature". I know, right? I love the post that I linked from a dev, though. I think that one is the most supportive, period. ...on another note, I wish that these posts would either be deleted on sight or merged with the zillion other posts on the subject..

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