| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
   |
Posted - 2009.09.24 16:50:00 -
[31]
BTW: The ONLY situation in which disabling VSYNC in Eve MAY be if you constantly get slightly less than Monitor Refresh Rate/2 (usually this means slightly less than 30fps). In this situation you MIGHT get a little bit more (more fps but possible tearing) from disabling it.
_________________________
EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 17:43:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Razin on 24/09/2009 17:44:51
 Originally by: DigitalCommunist
All you need to know about v-sync, double buffering and triple buffering.
Since EVE isn't twich based and simulated server-side, input lag is irrelevant. So, v-sync enabled isn't a problem and will usually spare your graphics card from heating up pointlessly. Though tearing can still be an issue.
There are other disadvantages to enabling vsync. From the article you referenced:
"While enabling vsync does fix tearing, it also sets the internal framerate of the game to, at most, the refresh rate of the monitor (typically 60Hz for most LCD panels). This can hurt performance even if the game doesn't run at 60 frames per second as there will still be artificial delays added to effect synchronization. Performance can be cut nearly in half cases where every frame takes just a little longer than 16.67 ms (1/60th of a second). In such a case, frame rate would drop to 30 FPS despite the fact that the game should run at just under 60 FPS."
...
|
Black Leather
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Razin
... if the frame rate drops to 29 or below FPS...
Good God!
How old would your system have to be to be running EVE at that frame rate.
My comp is not all that high end (any more :P) and I can run two instances of EVE premium as well as playing Fallout 3 at the same time at ultra high settings without a hiccup.
Vsync enabled. 1920x1200 resolution.
BL
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:18:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Black Leather
Originally by: Razin
... if the frame rate drops to 29 or below FPS...
Good God!
How old would your system have to be to be running EVE at that frame rate.
My comp is not all that high end (any more :P) and I can run two instances of EVE premium as well as playing Fallout 3 at the same time at ultra high settings without a hiccup.
Vsync enabled. 1920x1200 resolution.
BL
I'm glad you're satisfied with EVE's graphical performance for your mining activities while playing another game.
Being in a fleet fight with hundreds of ships on grid, all effects on, and FSAA+HDR @1920x1200 tends to stress my system.
...
|
Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Razin
In fact, if the frame rate drops to 29 or below FPS (in the scenario described above), the vsync will further cut it down to 15 (10?) just to keep synchronization.
Thats just plain wrong.
If it drops to 29 (or below) vsync would limit it to 20 or 25 (depending on how queueing is realized in eve).
And as I wrote this is about the only range where this really may matter because below this the limiting is so little that it makes nearly no difference (e.g. if it drops to 9fps with VSync you would get 8.5 instead).
_________________________
EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net |
Mr Epeen
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:45:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Razin
I'm glad you're satisfied with EVE's graphical performance for your mining activities while playing another game.
Being in a fleet fight with hundreds of ships on grid, all effects on, and FSAA+HDR @1920x1200 tends to stress my system.
So hundreds of blue and red squares drifting around on screen stress your system? LOL!
FYI, it's not the graphics that cause problems in fleet fights.
Mr Epeen 
|
Lork Niffle
Gallente
External Hard Drive
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 18:51:00 -
[37]
Performance can be cut in half for Vertical Sync. With my system i never go below 60FPS until i reach 8-10 clients and i do not experience the halving system it simply drops down.
There is no reason to make your system run at 60/75/85+ FPS since your monitor cannot show it, your eyes can tell a massive difference from 30-75 FPS and you can certainly feel a difference from 75-120 on CRT. Unless you are using a CRT or glass screen which can go above 300Hz even on old 90s models you should set Vertical sync ON
-------------------------------------
Don't click the links or even the forum topics. |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:00:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Amida Ta
Originally by: Razin
In fact, if the frame rate drops to 29 or below FPS (in the scenario described above), the vsync will further cut it down to 15 (10?) just to keep synchronization.
Thats just plain wrong.
If it drops to 29 (or below) vsync would limit it to 20 or 25 (depending on how queueing is realized in eve).
And as I wrote this is about the only range where this really may matter because below this the limiting is so little that it makes nearly no difference (e.g. if it drops to 9fps with VSync you would get 8.5 instead).
Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure about this and should have said so.
It's still a drop though, so I don't like it.
...
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:08:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
So hundreds of blue and red squares drifting around on screen stress your system? LOL!
FYI, it's not the graphics that cause problems in fleet fights.
Mr Epeen
It's usually a lot more stuff than just hundreds of "blue and red squares", and those usually do a lot more than just drift.
Your "FYI" has jack shit to do with the subject of this thread.
...
|
Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:22:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lork Niffle
There is no reason to make your system run at 60/75/85+ FPS since your monitor cannot show it, your eyes can tell a massive difference from 30-75 FPS and you can certainly feel a difference from 75-120 on CRT. Unless you are using a CRT or glass screen which can go above 300Hz even on old 90s models you should set Vertical sync ON
Well to be exact eyes can tell a massive difference from 30-75 *Hz*!! (At 30Hz you will get a really bad headache in no time). But this has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the fps that a game reaches. For a game to be smooth 30fps (with VSync!) are more than enough. Movies are running at 24fps and they are smooth and comics/animations (e.g. Simpsons) run at 18 or even 15 fps and they are smooth.
BTW if you have VSync off you need twice the fps for smooth animation (worst case).
_________________________
EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:45:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Razin on 24/09/2009 19:46:18
Originally by: Amida Ta
Edited by: Amida Ta on 24/09/2009 19:28:16
Originally by: Lork Niffle
There is no reason to make your system run at 60/75/85+ FPS since your monitor cannot show it, your eyes can tell a massive difference from 30-75 FPS and you can certainly feel a difference from 75-120 on CRT. Unless you are using a CRT or glass screen which can go above 300Hz even on old 90s models you should set Vertical sync ON
Well to be exact eyes can tell a massive difference from 30-75 *Hz*!! (At 30Hz you will get a really bad headache in no time). But this has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the fps that a game reaches. For a game to be smooth 30fps (with VSync!) are more than enough. Movies are running at 24fps and they are smooth and comics/animations (e.g. Simpsons) run at 18 or even 15 fps and they are smooth.
Right, now you are completely wrong. Movies seem smooth because of motion blur, and cartoons are perceived and judged differently because of presentation.
In a fast action game you can definitely see the difference between 30 and 60 FPS.
...
|
Mr Epeen
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 19:50:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Mr Epeen
So hundreds of blue and red squares drifting around on screen stress your system? LOL!
FYI, it's not the graphics that cause problems in fleet fights.
Mr Epeen
It's usually a lot more stuff than just hundreds of "blue and red squares", and those usually do a lot more than just drift.
Your "FYI" has jack shit to do with the subject of this thread.
You are correct, but that 'stuff' is the server load from calculating trajectories of ships, bullets, missiles etc. System carrying multiple chat channels. Logins from gates and cynos. Log offs from ships going boom. Multiple mod activations. And on and on.
What does any of that have to do with your gpu since unless you are in your first fight, you are zoomed out to the before mentioned blue and red squares?
So while my FYI to you has jack to do with the thread topic, neither does your response to Black leathers post. If it wasn't for your ill thought out emo post I wouldn't be making the ones I have to show you your error in thinking ( or lack of).
Mr Epeen
|
Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 20:16:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Razin
Edited by: Razin on 24/09/2009 19:46:18
Originally by: Amida Ta
Well to be exact eyes can tell a massive difference from 30-75 *Hz*!! (At 30Hz you will get a really bad headache in no time). But this has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the fps that a game reaches. For a game to be smooth 30fps (with VSync!) are more than enough. Movies are running at 24fps and they are smooth and comics/animations (e.g. Simpsons) run at 18 or even 15 fps and they are smooth.
Right, now you are completely wrong. Movies seem smooth because of motion blur, and cartoons are perceived and judged differently because of presentation.
In a fast action game you can definitely see the difference between 30 and 60 FPS.
Well motion blur does help a bit but it is in no way needed and surely not the reason why movies seem smoth. Just take a normal videocamera and film yourself: The result will have no motion blur and still be smooth at 24 fps. And whats with cartoons. I have never heard anybody say: Oh, this lags horribly, but its a cartoon, so I don't care.
Only if you have VSync off then 30fps may not be enough and you might see a difference between 30 and 60 fps (in fact I edited that away in the previous posting because I'm not particulary interested in explaining why as this is a bit more complex) but with VSync on you will not.
_________________________
EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net |
Washell Olivaw
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 20:33:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Washell Olivaw on 24/09/2009 20:35:17
Originally by: Amida Ta
Well motion blur does help a bit but it is in no way needed and surely not the reason why movies seem smoth. Just take a normal videocamera and film yourself: The result will have no motion blur and still be smooth at 24 fps. And whats with cartoons. I have never heard anybody say: Oh, this lags horribly, but its a cartoon, so I don't care.
Exposure times of 1/24th a second will generate motion blur on the captured frame, unless you're filming yourself while dead. And it is the reason movies are smooth at 20+ frames whereas games need to go 50+ for the same smoothness. As for cartoons, read some anime forums for debate on this, though they refer to it as cell count.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 21:21:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Razin
It's usually a lot more stuff than just hundreds of "blue and red squares", and those usually do a lot more than just drift.
Your "FYI" has jack shit to do with the subject of this thread.
You are correct, but that 'stuff' is the server load from calculating trajectories of ships, bullets, missiles etc. System carrying multiple chat channels. Logins from gates and cynos. Log offs from ships going boom. Multiple mod activations. And on and on.
What does any of that have to do with your gpu since unless you are in your first fight, you are zoomed out to the before mentioned blue and red squares?
Other 'stuff' I was referring to is ships and other effects, bubbles, caps, supercaps, POS structures, etc. Often enough it is necessary to zoom in, for example to see which way the ships are moving, for various reasons. All of this can be very GPU intensive.
Server performance can certainly put a ceiling on the framerates in this situation. However, this ceiling can be quite high on a reinforced node, and in this case your GPU will be the limiting factor; and enabled vsync will just cost you unnecessary loss of visual performance.
Originally by: Mr Epeen
So while my FYI to you has jack to do with the thread topic, neither does your response to Black leathers post. If it wasn't for your ill thought out emo post I wouldn't be making the ones I have to show you your error in thinking ( or lack of).
Perhaps flawed logic, inexperience, and ignorance are causing you to see something in my posts that isn't there. No offense intended.
...
|
Lazarann
Gateway Industries
House of Mercury
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 22:46:00 -
[46]
Question to Razin: If you're going to be in such large fights, why not turn off effects or turn down your graphics settings? I can understand wanting everything to look pretty, but it's not really fun if it's lagged to hell.
----------------
A million faces, each a million lies |
Black Leather
|
Posted - 2009.09.24 23:53:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Black Leather on 24/09/2009 23:54:52
Originally by: Lazarann
Question to Razin: If you're going to be in such large fights, why not turn off effects or turn down your graphics settings? I can understand wanting everything to look pretty, but it's not really fun if it's lagged to hell.
Most people do, Lazarann.
In fact a lot of people only use system view so graphics is more or less a non issue.
Unless you are FC, you can pretty much blank your screen in a fleet battle. The only thing you really need to see is the WT list and your modules activation icons. (Oh the joy of fleet warfare  )
BL
Edit: grammar
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2009.09.25 00:31:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Lazarann
Question to Razin: If you're going to be in such large fights, why not turn off effects or turn down your graphics settings? I can understand wanting everything to look pretty, but it's not really fun if it's lagged to hell.
My PC can handle the graphics just fine, my only argument is against the use of vsync since it causes a decrease in valuable framerate in the most critical of situations. And since I've never experienced any overheating I can't see any good reason to enable it (at least not 'till CCP codes triple-buffering into EVE).
...
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |