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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 07:22:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: CCP Nozh
Oh, and also Tracking Computers. We're looking at some falloff love.
This is a good idea.
I'm sceptical how much of a big deal high alpha strike is in most common situations (while certainly useful in specialised circumstances ie. any short long-range engagement). If you look at big fleet battles you tend to find Matari BS pilots aren't ranked any lower (damage wise) on individual killmails but they tend to appear on fewer killmails, because their slow rof prevents them firing on some of the primaries. The high alpha srike is almost masking their low dps. (I wish I had harder figures on this - maybe I'll try to churn some stats out of our kb database at some point).
The reason they have low dps is not directly due to the projectiles but battleship fitting. To match the range and tank of other race's battleships you sacrafice damage mods. The reason for that is low range of projectiles but also that none of the Minmatar battleships really suit fleet fits. The Tempest is hard to get tank on compared to bships that are more clearly armour or shield. The Maelstrom lacks the double-damage bonus that all the best Matari ships need to make up for the low inherent dps of proj and instead gets the shield booster bonus that has no use in fleet battles. Infact the Maelstrom and a 1400mm fitted Abaddon perform very similarly for common styles of fleet fitting. If you want more tank the Abaddon is better, if you want more damage the Maelstrom. They're both wastng one bonus.
The Maelstrom shield boost bonus is quite fun for small-scale combat but maybe it should be exchanged for a decent fall-off bonus which would still leave it useful in autocannon mode. Kinda similar to when the Apoc got it's optimal bonus and became awesome for fleet work.
In other ship classes the Muninn, Hurricane, hell even the Naglfar now, the Trasher ^^ etc.. have no problems competing when projectile fitted.
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Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 12:50:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Originally by: Blazde
The reason they [fleet bs] have low dps is not directly due to the projectiles but battleship fitting
This is only partly correct. Even if all ships fit the same number of damage mods, Artillery never peaks above the damage curves of other weapon types, even without figuring in reload times, which were the major crippling factor in Artillery DPS. Compound that with the fact that it's harder to make projectiles shoot far, and you end up with even more underwhelming results.
But this is a characteristic of projectiles: they have low dps, but they don't need cap and thus Minmatar get double-dps bonused ships, while Amarr get cap-use bonuses, and Gallente tend to get other stuff to compensate like tracking. If you compare a 1400mm Tempest with 425mm Megathron, maxed skills t2 ammo same number of damage mods, the Tempest has a touch better dps out to it's optimal and regains an edge eventually in fall-off (or when the megathron runs out of cap). This despite having 6 turrets instead of 7. The issue is the rest of the fit, and the fact that optimal range cranks up much better (and is more useful) than fall-off.
Originally by: Seriously Bored
I think it sort of defeats the purpose of the Maelstrom as a tier 3 ship. It's supposed to tank like all the others, and does it quite well outside of a fleet.
Yea agreed, I like the tier3 bships having a tank theme. Maybe give it shield resists like the Rokh, but that's kinda boring. I can't see anything that could be done to the Tempest to make it more fleet like, even with an extra turret hardpoint it couldn't fit it without sacraficing something to increase powergrid.
I know this is about ammo balancing, but I think the main reason people complain about arties is because the battleships suck in long range fits. Boosting t1 ammo differences is great for ac, but relatively moot for arties since they're more often than not firing Tremor and I really can't see increasing alpha-strike fixing the problem.
Regarding Tracking Computers, Minmatar got hit harder by the scripting change than other races which tend to use Tracking Enhancers more, since for the same range bonus on TC, TE also gets tracking (albeit TC gets flexibility). If you added a falloff bonus to the TC that was on the script as optimal rather than a 3rd dedicated falloff script it would boost Minmatar not only because they have more falloff but because their armour tanking ships are heavy users of TC. Just need to be careful it doesn't boost autocannons too much since their falloff characteristics are already godly.
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Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 14:32:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Blazde on 24/09/2009 14:35:13
Aye true, though honestly I think the Rokh and Apoc are overpowered and need bringing down to +7.5%/+5% optimal bonus more than say Tempest needs boosting. It's more relevant to compare the Tempest to the Megathron, or the Maelstrom to the Abaddon. Making Matari battleships as good as Apoc/Rokh would leave Gallente in the dust.
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Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 14:56:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter
There is no reason you couldn't make a gun that generated electrical power as it was fired, it just wouldn't be of much use.
Patent title: Linear Generator and System to Capture Energy from Irregular Linear Movement
I don't think this is a very constructive line of thought, but in EVE most things can be justified loosely RP wise. Projectiles generating cap is interesting (flavah wise) but it's not at all useful in many cases (long range static tanks) and potentially overpowered in those cases where it could be useful (close range active tanks) which need less boosting and it'd be a tank boost rather than a weapon boost.
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Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 15:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
If you did so you may discover the a Maelstron with megapulse is better than one with 800mm AC, which is a definite proof of projectiles issue...
Megapulse Maelstrom has less dps over (almost) all it's range profile, less tracking, and is cap unstabe while using more CPU and PG, what are you referring to?
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Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 17:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Vertical Axis
BC's:bc chart
BS: bs chart
Observe how the gallente are completely screwed, how minmatar starts out almost the same as amarr and then immediately loses its advantage, and how amarr with scorch simply dominates everything on the field in terms of range and dps.
I think you're misinterpeting how turrets works, in falloff ranges the damage drops off much more gracefully than you've shown. Here's a good guide: http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Turret_damage
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Blazde
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.24 20:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Caroline Nikon
It adds FLAVOR to these weapons, make them DIFFERENT.
It's Matari FLAVAH, mon. Yeeah?
I disagree with the culmination of your thought recommendation, but the harmonisation of these weaponisations needs to stand the test of diversification and fully represent the anti-rail Matari nation.
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