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Namran	Posted - 2009.09.28 11:54:00 - [1] Hello, I know several sides of eve and wanted to suggest an idea, covering several issues. 1) Too much isk in the game 2) Too many players leaving due to character growing slowly 3) Many people having a weird feeling about certificates being good for nothing. KILL EM ALL! Certificate does not look like a piece of game character like skill, it looks like something more formal, achievable, acquirable. And yet they dont get too deep into the game, just towards real good core and ok spec skills. So let the Eve universities sell them! Certificate needs all prerequisite certificates to be bought and a BIG sum of money to get. I'm talking about approx 20 bils for core competency elite summed up. After like hour of intense thinking, I'm really sure it wont upset the balance, it will get iskies out of the game quicker and it will get rid of people from level based mmorpgs complaining unability to use their massive online presense to catch up with the bigger guys. P.S. I'm almost sure someone must have raised that issue already, but maybe related to skills only? But evesearch is unreachable atm, so I eagerly spam what I feel like being right. Thanks for reading.
Argonis Valentio Senex Legio	Posted - 2009.09.28 12:06:00 - [2] EVE has defined itself as a game where time is significant. You need to subscribe for a period to earn SP, you have to be active (to change skills) and you can earn ISK to purchase equipment. CCP earns money from you submitting to this treatment of game-play. Therefore, what's wrong with your proposal: (a) CCP loses money due to not requiring players to subscribe to the game for longer periods of time. I myself buy GTC's when I want to make another character etc but not stop my training process. What you propose would mean I wouldn't need to buy those GTC's on market, price may go down (if global effect is strong) and then less people will supply GTC. (b) Unfair treatment towards older players of EVE. These players are CCP's real market, they have earned CCP a steady stream of income over the years and probably for years to come. Do they really want to wake these sleeping giants? (c) Breaks the imagine of EVE Online. What makes EVE different from WoW? Well for one, the skill process. I hate playing games where the troll standing next to me is 30 levels higher simply because he has no life. EVE doesn't reflect the amount of social life you've thrown away playing the game. That is why I'm not going to support this. To change that feature would be to trim the advantages or differences which set EVE apart from every other MMO. These differences are important!
Namran	Posted - 2009.09.28 12:16:00 - [3] Argonius I heartfully thank you for a very good note of criticism, it basically means putting together all issues possible due to my suggestion. And you are right, basically what you said IS the real drawback of what I'm offering. However, I'd like to once again stress on the BIG part of isk cost. If you think 20bils is not big enough make it 100bils. For reason. Respect to older players - man, remember how actually MANY skills are out of certification planning cover for good and are NOT achievable through proposed system. Time based nature of the game - BIG cost stands for it. To get the money you need time. It's just a question of deciding how big. Not selling GTCs - and where do you think a person from out of the game would suddenly get all that isk with isk farmers currently in rapid decline? Right - from buying gtcs and selling plexes to the community, while plexes as you know, are very well affected by existing marketting balance. In all, I'll end here. Our two votes form a nice shape of pros and cons of the mentioned idea. Thanks again.
darius mclever	Posted - 2009.09.28 12:33:00 - [4] firs of all you failed at searching. buying SP was a topic not even a week ago. and the consensus was NO. what many players really fail to understand: training the SP is one thing. learning how to use those new skills properly is a 2nd thing. last but not least ... just because a skill is training doesnt mean you cant do anything in eve. and btw ... buying certificates/titles irl is also illegal. you have to stay there and do all the tests aswell. that said ... not supported.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.28 17:24:00 - [5] Why the hell would I want to spend ISK on something that is nothing more than a piece of paper saying "I know this"? ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Dretzle Omega Caldari Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts	Posted - 2009.09.28 18:16:00 - [6] Originally by: Drake Draconis Why the hell would I want to spend ISK on something that is nothing more than a piece of paper saying "I know this"? I think he's talking about spending ISK to get Certificates which would give you the SP specified in the Certificate. If that's the case, fail for another thread from a new player that wants SP but doesn't want to wait around for it. In WoW you spend every waking moment killing X number of rats to make your character level up. In Eve you set skills that train over real life hours. Much better, in my opinion, which is why I'm playing this game. If he meant spending ISK to get the Certificates after you've skilled, which we currently get for free, I'm with Drake and would just say no to certificates. They would be pointless. The day you can buy SP, with ISK or otherwise, is the day I quit Eve as it would have become Neopets Online, pay money for your new clothes on your character, Yay! Thankfully, that day will never come.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.28 19:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Dretzle Omega Originally by: Drake Draconis Why the hell would I want to spend ISK on something that is nothing more than a piece of paper saying "I know this"? I think he's talking about spending ISK to get Certificates which would give you the SP specified in the Certificate. If that's the case, fail for another thread from a new player that wants SP but doesn't want to wait around for it. In WoW you spend every waking moment killing X number of rats to make your character level up. In Eve you set skills that train over real life hours. Much better, in my opinion, which is why I'm playing this game. If he meant spending ISK to get the Certificates after you've skilled, which we currently get for free, I'm with Drake and would just say no to certificates. They would be pointless. The day you can buy SP, with ISK or otherwise, is the day I quit Eve as it would have become Neopets Online, pay money for your new clothes on your character, Yay! Thankfully, that day will never come. It's a rhretorical question at best but yes.. my sentiments exactly. Buying SP? Hell no. An ISK Sink for cert's? Hell the majority of the playerbase doesn't give a damn over certs at best! ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Tortugan Internal Anarchy	Posted - 2009.09.28 20:37:00 - [8] Here's a thought- though admittedly, I probably wouldn't support my own idea, despite it benefiting CCP: Players submit PLEX cards to CONCORD covering the amount of days they want to train- in other words, say you were 90 days away from the skills needed for a Hull Tanking - Elite certificate. You would submit 3 PLEXes to CONCORD in exchange for the skills- that way you tie it in to legally purchasing isk, and CCP gains revenue overall from PLEX sales. ^Rough idea, like I said- but I'm curious what your opinions are of it. :D
darius mclever	Posted - 2009.09.28 21:16:00 - [9] any buying SP for money is wrong.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.28 21:43:00 - [10] Originally by: Tortugan Here's a thought- though admittedly, I probably wouldn't support my own idea, despite it benefiting CCP: Players submit PLEX cards to CONCORD covering the amount of days they want to train- in other words, say you were 90 days away from the skills needed for a Hull Tanking - Elite certificate. You would submit 3 PLEXes to CONCORD in exchange for the skills- that way you tie it in to legally purchasing isk, and CCP gains revenue overall from PLEX sales. ^Rough idea, like I said- but I'm curious what your opinions are of it. 1: Get Cash or Grind for ISK 2: Get lots of PLEX 3: Trade up for SP 4: Sell 3 day old uber account for a crapload of ISK 5: Rinse and repeat. Conclusion - Anyone who makes a suggestion for buying SP is a ####ing ######## of a idiot. Sorry... you have no excuse for not thinking ahead. Please people... give it up... stop turning EVE into WOW. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================

Namran	Posted - 2009.09.30 07:49:00 - [11] Drake Drakonis your calling those who see things differently some bad names qualifies your IQ, not theirs, also I think direct insults were forbidden here and your using symbols to conceal them too speaks for your respect to all people. Also, this thread helps me to understand how exactly the eve community reacts to this. I myself am perfectly okay with the timeframes we currently have for skills, and would not benefit from it directly, but I did benefit from seeing your points. A bit sad to lose very many people who dont like waiting to train the "everyone has to train" core skills, but guess thats the way it has to be to keep it balanced. Thanks people.
Efrim Black Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.09.30 08:28:00 - [12] Originally by: Drake Draconis 5: Rinse and repeat. Conclusion - Anyone who makes a suggestion for buying SP is a ####ing ######## of a idiot. Sorry... you have no excuse for not thinking ahead. Please people... give it up... stop turning EVE into WOW. I happrrrn to think you're the idiot here drake. Wow has 7 million more people playing thann eve. maybe this kind of thinking is the problem??? ???? supportted.
Odins Blood Nagrom Security Syndicate	Posted - 2009.09.30 08:44:00 - [13] im a new player "hi new player" hi everyone. so anywho yeah please do nt let skill points be bought. i like this game cause i can have a life and sleep at night and 8 hours later BOOM i can fly my uber cruiser. and during those 8 hours somebody else is getting in there new cruiser too. but if i understand your proposal then 8 hours later im flying in my new cruiser happy as a clam mining to get me some guns on my baby and some other guy in those 8 hours bought enough skills to get into a m,assive uber ship of epic proportions and comes along on me and kills me cause he bought all of it while i did it the old way. no thank you. the very least i would like to see is some sort of level system that just gives you a benchmark of were you are in the game not effecting the game at all except to be another blinking light in my character sheet.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.09.30 08:54:00 - [14] Buy a char then, which has the certificates you need.
darius mclever	Posted - 2009.09.30 10:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Efrim Black Originally by: Drake Draconis 5: Rinse and repeat. Conclusion - Anyone who makes a suggestion for buying SP is a ####ing ######## of a idiot. Sorry... you have no excuse for not thinking ahead. Please people... give it up... stop turning EVE into WOW. I happrrrn to think you're the idiot here drake. Wow has 7 million more people playing thann eve. maybe this kind of thinking is the problem??? ???? supportted. CCP got rid of ghost training for that reason?:) just in case you missed it.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.30 14:24:00 - [16] Originally by: Efrim Black Originally by: Drake Draconis 5: Rinse and repeat. Conclusion - Anyone who makes a suggestion for buying SP is a ####ing ######## of a idiot. Sorry... you have no excuse for not thinking ahead. Please people... give it up... stop turning EVE into WOW. I happrrrn to think you're the idiot here drake. Wow has 7 million more people playing thann eve. maybe this kind of thinking is the problem??? ???? supportted. I happen to like the fact that your forced to train to fly a Hulk for 1 to 2 months. I happen to like the fact your forced to train for carriers (properly) for nearly 6 Months. I suggest you take a step back and rethink your stance. It's bad enough people are allowed to buy characters... After playing EVE For over a year I can see why people would take issue with taking shortcuts. Which is why I draw the line there.. you want it that bad? Buy the ######## character legally and STFU. There's your bloody SP. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Dretzle Omega Caldari Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts	Posted - 2009.09.30 18:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Efrim Black Wow has 7 million more people playing thann eve. maybe this kind of thinking is the problem??? No, actually. WoW has more people playing than Eve because WoW dumbed it down enough to appeal to the masses. CCP did not take shortcuts with their game and destroy it just for the sake of getting more subscriptions. Hence, smaller player base, but more fun game, at least for those of us that like it. For those that don't.... well, there's always WoW.
Efrim Black Gallente Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.09.30 18:21:00 - [18] Originally by: Drake Draconis Originally by: Efrim Black Originally by: Drake Draconis 5: Rinse and repeat. Conclusion - Anyone who makes a suggestion for buying SP is a ####ing ######## of a idiot. Sorry... you have no excuse for not thinking ahead. Please people... give it up... stop turning EVE into WOW. I happrrrn to think you're the idiot here drake. Wow has 7 million more people playing thann eve. maybe this kind of thinking is the problem??? ???? supportted. I happen to like the fact that your forced to train to fly a Hulk for 1 to 2 months. I happen to like the fact your forced to train for carriers (properly) for nearly 6 Months. I suggest you take a step back and rethink your stance. It's bad enough people are allowed to buy characters... After playing EVE For over a year I can see why people would take issue with taking shortcuts. Which is why I draw the line there.. you want it that bad? Buy the ######## character legally and STFU. There's your bloody SP. Oh settle down drake. it was 2 in the morning and I was drunk. This idea is so laughable the only supports have come from it's originator and me with a few screw drivers in me.
Nekopyat	Posted - 2009.09.30 19:03:00 - [19] Originally by: Efrim Black I happrrrn to think you're the idiot here drake. Wow has 7 million more people playing thann eve. maybe this kind of thinking is the problem??? I am guessing that you have not taken basic game theory, have you? EVE does well because it appeals to people outside the WoW playerbase. If it altered to compete directly with WoW, it would die a horrible death, just like all the other 'WoW killers' out there.
Efrim Black Gallente Shadow Cadre	Posted - 2009.09.30 19:46:00 - [20] Originally by: Nekopyat Originally by: Efrim Black I happrrrn to think you're the idiot here drake. Wow has 7 million more people playing thann eve. maybe this kind of thinking is the problem??? I am guessing that you have not taken basic game theory, have you? EVE does well because it appeals to people outside the WoW playerbase. If it altered to compete directly with WoW, it would die a horrible death, just like all the other 'WoW killers' out there. 1. I was drunk. 2. Even while drunk I was being sarcastic. I mis-typed on account of laughing, not the vodka. ;p

Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.30 19:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Efrim Black Originally by: Nekopyat Originally by: Efrim Black I happrrrn to think you're the idiot here drake. Wow has 7 million more people playing thann eve. maybe this kind of thinking is the problem??? I am guessing that you have not taken basic game theory, have you? EVE does well because it appeals to people outside the WoW playerbase. If it altered to compete directly with WoW, it would die a horrible death, just like all the other 'WoW killers' out there. 1. I was drunk. 2. Even while drunk I was being sarcastic. I mis-typed on account of laughing, not the vodka. ;p Don't drink and post Efrim. :) ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
jemos Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.30 20:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Namran Drake Drakonis your calling those who see things differently some bad names qualifies your IQ, not theirs, also I think direct insults were forbidden here and your using symbols to conceal them too speaks for your respect to all people. Also, this thread helps me to understand how exactly the eve community reacts to this. I myself am perfectly okay with the timeframes we currently have for skills, and would not benefit from it directly, but I did benefit from seeing your points. A bit sad to lose very many people who dont like waiting to train the "everyone has to train" core skills, but guess thats the way it has to be to keep it balanced. Thanks people. Lol, I just have to point out that a persons IQ have nothing to do with social skills. As if I insult you for a stupid opinion. According to your statement it means I have Low IQ? Mind clarify this just a little. And for the record, the higher IQ a person have, the less social skill they tend to have. So; are you saying that Drake is a genius? And to the topic, I think buying all SP associated with a certificate is not a good idTa. Like Core competency Elite. That's HUGE amount of Sp's involved. Core fitting Elite is usually only associated with T2 bs and/or Dread pilots due to the "Adv weapon upgrades lvl5" requirement. And I may also point to the character bazaar where you can buy chars only to be called "Ebay" when you actually try to do something with them. So, not supported. Not at all. Originally by: FireT If you have capitals..... well for the love of Raptor Pope, use them before they rust away.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.30 20:32:00 - [23] Originally by: jemos Lol, I just have to point out that a persons IQ have nothing to do with social skills. As if I insult you for a stupid opinion. According to your statement it means I have Low IQ? Mind clarify this just a little. And for the record, the higher IQ a person have, the less social skill they tend to have. So; are you saying that Drake is a genius? NICE! o7 ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.09.30 20:56:00 - [24] Not supported. If I had to go uphill, in the snow, both ways, in the dead of Winter, barefoot, three times now, then so should all the new people. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Cheekything Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.10.01 00:03:00 - [25] I like how the sp training means most of the whiny annoying 12 year olds will play wow instead of eve For that i am truely thankful amarr men
Namran	Posted - 2009.10.02 06:40:00 - [26] Edited by: Namran on 02/10/2009 06:44:14 Edited by: Namran on 02/10/2009 06:40:43 Jemos, I meant exactly what I meant. I had enough IQ and mere guts to say "ok, I'm wrong, respect to your opinion", and Drake does not have the ability to control himself enough to point to mistakes of others without resorting to insults which are of not intellectual, but purely biological nature. Now I think opinions are more thank clear. I thank everyone again, let's end this.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.02 14:50:00 - [27] Originally by: Namran Edited by: Namran on 02/10/2009 06:44:14 Edited by: Namran on 02/10/2009 06:40:43 Jemos, I meant exactly what I meant. I had enough IQ and mere guts to say "ok, I'm wrong, respect to your opinion", and Drake does not have the ability to control himself enough to point to mistakes of others without resorting to insults which are of not intellectual, but purely biological nature. Now I think opinions are more thank clear. I thank everyone again, let's end this. You call your idea intellectual and reasonable? You could have fooled us. Some people tend to think before they speak.... apparently you don't. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Foolish Bob Caldari FireTech In Tea We Trust	Posted - 2009.10.02 15:29:00 - [28] in before the lock to say glad you saw the light dude. Also, to use the youth vernacular of the day, way to pwn yourself drake. ----------- I am me. I am not the corp I've joined nor the alliance I fly in. I'm also not a unique and special snowflake. Everything I say should be taken in that context.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.02 15:59:00 - [29] Originally by: Foolish Bob in before the lock to say glad you saw the light dude. Also, to use the youth vernacular of the day, way to pwn yourself drake. Way to epic fail post bob. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Foolish Bob Caldari FireTech In Tea We Trust	Posted - 2009.10.02 16:52:00 - [30] wow you know when you're in a hole you dug that you want to get out of, the trick is to dig UP. some people won't be helped I guess. Off to threads new and green. ----------- I am me. I am not the corp I've joined nor the alliance I fly in. I'm also not a unique and special snowflake. Everything I say should be taken in that context.



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