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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2009.10.01 13:41:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: KustoMKilleR
lol. love how i speak my mind and i get told to "L2P".
so just to set the record straight, i fly ECM ships in pvp. Rooks to be precise. i love them and think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
HOWEVER
with most of the people in RvB pvping in T1 frigs and cruisers and operating in small gangs, ecm is the biggest fun killer in the entire game. No other EWAR can completely remove someones ability to fight back.
remote sensor damps - close range or fit a sebo
tracking disruptors - gain range to reduce effects
the only way to fight back against ECM is waiting for your opponent to miss a cycle or going outside their lock range. and for the people saying "hurr...just use drones against them". most smart ecm pilots will orbit outside of the 45km drone range so how exactly will drones help?.
meh wtf do i care, think what you want. ill go back to griefing WT's in high sec.
My drones go further then 45km, train your skills dude, or just close range and wait for the cycle to end. Fit ECCM or use the implant set to counter many more ECM cycles. 
ECM is not less fun then being TD/SD to death. At least ECM is chanced based and not a totally reliable form of EWAR like SD/TD is.
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Intigo
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.10.01 14:49:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Intigo on 01/10/2009 14:52:43
...
You really are incompetent, Lindsay. How does it being chance-based make it a BETTER effect? TDs and RSDs can be countered through efficient piloting and player skill, ECM you can not counter through moving closer or piloting in a specific way.
How is something chance-based that is affected by randomness in any way shape or form a GOOD thing? The mind boggles at your stupidity. "It's more balanced because it's random!!!"
Who is your main? Seeing as this alt of yours has no PvP kills. I wonder if you have remotely any PvP experience at all.
"Fit ECCM" - yes, let's give those T1 Cruisers & Frigates a percentage boost to the massive sensor strength they already have, that will save us! Not to mention ECCM has no usage at all in engagemenst where ECM is not present (whereas Webs that help counter TDs do, Sensor Boosters have a use as well even if there are no RSDs present).
"Use Drones" - yes, not let's even begin to mention that the majority of pilots in the RvB are either new PvP'ers or low-SP alts. There's a ton of T1 Drones or bad skills all over the place, it will not dent the Blackbird. Not to mention the fact that you need to get a lock before you can assign them if the Blackbird is smart and warps in mid-fight. Or the massive amount of T1 frigs that love targeting drones. Or the fact that the majority of the Frigs we see (Rifters) can't even use Drones.
How do you propose they counter ECM? Make sure you bring atleast 4 Frigates to counter a single ECM ship? Oh joy.
"Use FoFs" - hahaha. No, really, you're kidding, right?
ECM was a terrible decision design-wise in the first place, but that's too late to change now. And haha, to the foolish person saying "if ECM is overpowered CCP would have nerfed it more!" - yeah...we all know CCP do a great job of game balancing, right?
ECM is not overpowered in the general PvP sense and has less of an impact the more people you get, but in the RvB setting it is extremely stupid due to the nature of the ships we fly and the relatively small size of the gangs.
I can't believe how foolish some of you people are. :\
Please realize that RvB is meant as a fun PvP outlet - the single-most annoying effect in the game is getting jammed (I think you can get the majority of people to agree with that, even if you don't). ECM completely takes away fun from the fights where-as TDs and RSDs can be countered through good piloting (lower your transversal, close range).
___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
BiggestT
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2009.10.01 15:39:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Intigo
ECM was a terrible decision design-wise in the first place, but that's too late to change now. And haha, to the foolish person saying "if ECM is overpowered CCP would have nerfed it more!" - yeah...we all know CCP do a great job of game balancing, right?
Actually, they do do a great job.
Last I checked, EVE was as balanced as it ever was. Sure there are some annoying trends, some lameduck ships, and an arguable case about turret imbalance atm, but this is far from an issue considering days of old.
I find it funny you talk of noobs not being able to fight ecm as easily, when you forget that many ecm pilots will be noobs also (many wld warp at 0 and yell "JAM!" when they lock a frig)
Btw, Calling us incompetent and foolish is not a valid argument, hmm what if I were use the same tactic?
...
"With your incompetence, how the hell did you ever make it into -A- in the first place??"
(awaits fish bite)
EVE Trivia EVE History
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.10.01 15:57:00 -
[34]
Originally by: KustoMKilleR
the only way to fight back against ECM is waiting for your opponent to miss a cycle or going outside their lock range. and for the people saying "hurr...just use drones against them". most smart ecm pilots will orbit outside of the 45km drone range so how exactly will drones help?.
Because drone control range is 60km at max skills?
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.10.01 16:09:00 -
[35]
A lot of you seem to be treating this as a discussion of ECM in EVE at large.
But in reality, they are discussing ECM in the context of RvB.
RvB players fly around small squads of T1 frigates and some T1 cruisers.
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Intigo
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.10.01 16:40:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Intigo on 01/10/2009 16:42:42
Originally by: Ulstan
A lot of you seem to be treating this as a discussion of ECM in EVE at large.
But in reality, they are discussing ECM in the context of RvB.
RvB players fly around small squads of T1 frigates and some T1 cruisers.
Ding, ding, ding.
Thank you for seeing what I highlighted in the last part of my last post. Selectively quoting some parts and not the entire post makes people look pretty silly.
___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.01 17:22:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ulstan
A lot of you seem to be treating this as a discussion of ECM in EVE at large.
But in reality, they are discussing ECM in the context of RvB.
RvB players fly around small squads of T1 frigates and some T1 cruisers.
I think they're just mostly trolling OR are incapable of realising different situations than the one they're in (kinda similar to the "all PVP ships need to be EHP armor tanked" idiots, just because THEY fly in 0.0 BS blobs).
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Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.01 17:56:00 -
[38]
Red Verses Blue is played by people with low skillpoint alts flying small cheap ships for the ~good fights~ that they cant get with their mains. If you are one of the "play to win at all costs" crowd, then RvB wouldnt be fun for you, because you would be wondering why your FC was jumping you into a larger enemy gang.
Its for the lulz. |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.10.01 18:04:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Glissando Fugue
So a bunch of my friends decided they'd join up for the Red VS Blue war. For my entire eve existence, I've focused on EWar, which is Jammers for Caldari. Unfortunately, it seems as though they've "banned" ECM. So basically, as Caldari, I'm useless.
Btw, msot of my other skills are pretty lacking. As I've said, I just recently got all my ECM skills to 4/5.
Should I swap to another race? Or train in something else... Or just leave this war entirely =P.
Go missiles.
Frigs: rocket kestrel = win over most frigs.
t2 frigs: crow is still decent
t2 dessys: flycatcher (with rockets) can be quite awesome. even w/o sphere it still murders smaller ships
cruisers: caracal = good all roudner (anti frig, anti cruiser or support-long range)
t2 cruisers: onyx - rock solid tank + decent damage, cerb = pwnsauce missile boat (its just caracal on steroids), basilisk - awesome gang support
BCs: drake... and this should be it :) drake is probably one of best if not the best battlecruiser in game. Drake gang + some rr support can take on battleship gangs. And win.
t2 BCs: NH is sad (IMO, some people like PVP NH but imo drake is better)
BS: torp raven is solid, just get shield rr (scimis, basilisks). active tanked torp ravens can take on megas and wins due to overheat and crystal implants
Thats missile way. You can go also rails/blasters for beagle, harpy, moa, ferox (they can be good), vultures (sick tank in small combat, blasters hurt like hell), blaster rokhs (awesome for 1v1 or small gang combat with local active tank). Probably missing some.
So yeh, even without ECM caldari can be (and is) fun to fly.
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Brodde Dim
Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2009.10.01 18:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Intigo
Gypsio, don't be silly, a Blackbird at range with your ships jammed while you're webbed down will completely ruin a small gang fight. You should realize this. We're all in T1 frigs & cruisers for the most part, hence why ECM is extremely overpowered.
Thank you! You are more than welcome to not join. What do you propose as "ECM counters" when you are flying around in T1 Cruisers and you're webbed down 30-40km from a Blackbird jamming you?
Please, do tell me.
RvsB should ban webs tbh. 
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
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Posted - 2009.10.01 19:10:00 -
[41]
Originally by: KustoMKilleR
if by failure you mean not being able to bring a few ecm ships with every gang and decimate your opposition because they cant even lock you then yeah i guess your right
No, I'm pretty sure he meant failure, as in, you'll never learn how to counter ECM in other PvP by playing RvB. So have fun in your fail WoW arena.
-- He said "The President is near."
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.10.01 19:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
So have fun
I do believe that is the point.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
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Posted - 2009.10.01 19:18:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Intigo
What do you propose as "ECM counters" when you are flying around in T1 Cruisers and you're webbed down 30-40km from a Blackbird jamming you?
Gallente: Celestis will make it impossible for him to jam you from 30-40km. If he jams the Celestis instead, well one of your dps ships is not being jammed, then. MWD over and kill the BB.
Amarr: sucks to be Amarr
Minmatar: sucks to be Minmatar
Of course, any character can train Caldari Cruiser to III or IV in a few days, and hop in a BB to counter-jam.
-- He said "The President is near."
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.01 19:26:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mikayla Grey
Indeed its just like in boxing. To get good fights both boxers just have to agree they can only stand on one leg during the fight.
It IS just like boxing. Keep it clean, keep it a good fight. ECM is a punch to the nuts or a gouge in the eyes. It's for no-rules street fighting.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
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Posted - 2009.10.01 19:27:00 -
[45]
Originally by: KustoMKilleR
remote sensor damps - close range or fit a sebo
A BB with a sebo has one less jammer. A BB at close range has not even a dixie cup, let alone a tank. Bring Celestis often, BB will soon become less of a threat because they will know they need to fit a sebo. Celestis fit for damping isn't all that sexy, but then neither is the dreaded BB.
In RvB does anyone ever bring a ship fit for RSB?
-- He said "The President is near."
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.10.01 19:33:00 -
[46]
People bring T1 frigs, T2 frigs and dessies, and the occasional T1 cruiser. (Mostly vexors and thoraxes and caracals).
I've not seen a single blackbird or celestis. Or indeed, any of the logistics T1 cruisers except for a lone osprey.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.10.01 20:35:00 -
[47]
ECM is one of the biggest reasons combat in EvE sucks so much. Click to move and the complete lack of position combat are some others.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
The AB/OD Fix |
KustoMKilleR
Axe Gang
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Posted - 2009.10.02 02:47:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
have fun in your fail WoW arena.
wow is for intellectually challenged people (like yourself), who like games where you can mindlessly grind away and progress. which is why i play eve and not any other MMO. Its not a grind fest .
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
No, I'm pretty sure he meant failure, as in, you'll never learn how to counter ECM in other PvP by playing RvB.
pretty sure the point of RvB is not to teach you how to play but to have fun. i believe Eve university are the people you should contact to teach you how to play Guillame.
Shununununun.......
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Smabs
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Posted - 2009.10.02 03:26:00 -
[49]
As far as the op goes...
Most of the counters to ECM require bigger ships or larger gangs. Fitting an ECCM to a frig or cruiser cripples its combat ability and you'll probably end up getting jammed anyway. ECM might work with higher sp characters who can counter it, but for smaller gangs or newer players it really is a game breaker. If you're solo and encounter an ECM boat it usually boils down to getting out or watching your ship die. I'm sorry, but ECM is just not fun for small gangs... which is why I keep a list of ECM pilots to avoid when I go roaming.
Non-ecm Caldari ships really aren't that bad. The Merlin is an excellent frig, the kestrel isn't bad, the moa and caracal are pretty decent too. Even the cormorant can be made into a fairly nice destroyer. And you can surprise people who have the misconception that Caldari can't pvp :).
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Voridor Malevolence
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.02 03:58:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
No, I'm pretty sure he meant failure, as in, you'll never learn how to counter ECM in other PvP by playing RvB.
yeah sorry some of us dont really care about being as hardcore as you at playing internet spaceships you clown
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
So have fun in your fail WoW arena.
have fun being a bitter jackass about what other people do for enjoyment while not really affecting you all that much on an online forum
its sad how seriously people take this ****
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.10.02 04:24:00 -
[51]
NO FUN!!! INTERNET SPACESHIPS IS SRS BSNSS!!!
_________
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fox weik
Caldari
Caucasian Culture Club
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Posted - 2009.10.02 04:39:00 -
[52]
What's the point of ECM being in the game at all then? They ban it at alliance tourney's too, it's ridiculous. If you can't balance it, delete it.
lol fail
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Updyke
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.02 05:39:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Of course, any character can train Caldari Cruiser to III or IV in a few days, and hop in a BB to counter-jam.
And Herein lies the problem.
Since the side with the most ecm usually has an advantage, ECM usage will escalate and RvB would degenerate into Blackbirds Online.
Like Plave has stated countless times, ECM is not banned. The majority of players have a sort of 'gentleman's agreement' not to use it, since it takes the fun out of evenly matched fights, especially when most of us are in t1 frigs and cruisers (crappy sensor strength).
The funny bit is that a bunch of forum*****s that aren't even involved in RvB, are now offering their 2 cents. WTF has it got to do with you? You have no say. GDIAF. People that are involved in RvB, that know what the fights are like, they have a say. If the majority of players in RvB wanted ECM to be part of the fights, it would be. But it isn't.
And to the ECM***s that say 'Oh well then I'm not going to join RvB' : Thank you, have a nice day, bye now o/
To the people that scream 'ZOMG wow arena!' Get a ****ing clue.
We roam, we fight on gates, we have highly interesting 1v1, 1v2, 2v2 and small gang fights, that are fun for both sides.
And if you dislike:
1) less ecm
2) less podding
3) no sentry fire
4) no bubbles
then maybe RvB is not for you.
Good day to you sirs.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.02 09:45:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Marko Riva on 02/10/2009 09:45:18
It's like this;
- the people that understand that the idea of RvB is to have fun for both sides are the ones that get it and keep to the 'rules'
- the people who can only see fun in "I'm winning at any cost" are the ones that simply won't 'get' RvB, and as they don't understand it they either won't join or will join but mess things up
- the rest of the posters here are either clueless, incapable of seeing things from a different angle than their own situation or trolls. Quite possibly it'll be a combination of the three, but as they're not part of RvB their opinion has no merit.
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Pepper Candy
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Posted - 2009.10.02 11:12:00 -
[55]
RvB is for FUN guys. It aint about killmails, its not about OMG MY UBER L33T RED SIDE IS BETTER THAN YOURS COS OUR EFFECIENCY IS GREATER. Its about a bunch of people running around in smaller ships (and occasionally bigger ones when the time is right) and killing eachother for a laugh! I know this may be a hard concept for most of eve to understand, the whole concept of fighting for fun and not for the killmail or stat pad...
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Irida Mershkov
Gallente
War is Bliss
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Posted - 2009.10.02 13:36:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Plave Okice
ECM is not banned
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Yalezorn
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.02 21:30:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Marko Riva
Originally by: Yalezorn
Originally by: KustoMKilleR
Originally by: Lindsay Logan
No ECM in R v B?
What a failure R v B is then...
if by failure you mean not being able to bring a few ecm ships with every gang and decimate your opposition because they cant even lock you then yeah i guess your right
What's the point of ECM being in the game at all then? They ban it at alliance tourney's too, it's ridiculous. If you can't balance it, delete it.
If the goal is to have "good fights" then ECM is meh, if the goal is to win then ECM is great. Understand the subtle difference
Bringing a domi full of light drones ruins good fights for people in frigates, guess you better make sure no one does that.
Sniper fleet vs blaster fleet: no can't have that.
Part of what makes things fun for real players is knowing you might go into a fight where the enemy has a hard counter to whatever you brought. If RvB is just a carebear war where people only want totally even fights, it certainly isn't for me. If you ban (or even discourage) ECM because it's so useful, you better be prepared to micromanage every fight. Otherwise you're just a bunch hypocrites.
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Voridor Malevolence
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.02 22:02:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Voridor Malevolence on 02/10/2009 22:05:46
Why do people with no interest of getting involved in rvb care so much?
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
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Posted - 2009.10.02 22:41:00 -
[59]
Why do RvB peeps care so much about what others think of their fun?
-- He said "The President is near."
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Kail Storm
Caldari
The Unforgiving.
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Posted - 2009.10.03 00:10:00 -
[60]
ECm should not be frowned upon...At mos the guys should maybe limit ECM and hell all EWAR to T1 frigs. Its true the BB may be a TAd tough for 4 man teams to stop but in no way impossible.
But If you had the Griffin with ECM and you cant stop them its really sad, RVB should be fun but it should also help newer guys to be better at fights hence all ewar ships should be t1 frigs only, the get a taste of ewar but not killed in secs.
But a web is just as dangerous to a T1 frig as Ewar since once you are webbd cruisers can eat you up.
I do find it funny a AAA member arguing about ECM making battles not fun lol and fighting in RVB, Havent you had enough war, you my friend need to speak to a therapist lol , and haven`t most of wars youve won been huge blobs of EWAR Maybe its your`s and AAA masterplan to make all the new PVPers in eve totally ECM stupid and hence ez prey for your Post Patch offensive on the rest of eve 
If you run, You`ll only die tired :) |
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