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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
419
   |
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
EVE Roy Mustang wrote:Tippia wrote:EVE Roy Mustang wrote:lying... what? Yeah you Yes you. It wasn't 75% and, as always, it wasn't players. So no, [whatever]% of players are not in highsec. By the way, do you have an actual source for that quote? Yeah twitter. use His name and scroll down... https://twitter.com/#!/CCP_Diagoras 29 february There for all to read, but I dont do twitter so I dont know how to link it :p But yeah.... cause CCP_diagoras, TOTALLY not CCP Your reaching now (pssst? Last post I said "oops it was 66% not 75% so yeah cram it lol)
Those numbers still don't work though. Out of my six eve characters four of them are located smack in the middle of highsec right now, and my carrier pilot spends a considerable amount of his time in lowsec. They aren't "Highsec players" and my carrier pilot isn't a "Lowsec player". All of these pilots are doing things to support the pilot that is in Nullsec. I'd wager that most "Invested" (i.e. more than one account nullsec player) have similar setups, and I imagine the guy that does most of our shipping logistics spends almost 99% of his time in highsec. But he's still a nullsec player.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: If they want the numbers to mean anything they really need to take a census. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
420
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ginseng Jita wrote:Also, if you listen further, he states that the number one activity in EVE is PvE - mission running.
I'd probably run missions for isk if they would let us install agents as system upgrades in Null. It would be slightly more engaging than mindless ratting. So I can see that.
Also the above poster is correct. More than a little bit of that money is to pay for kablooie.
I don't rat for the sake of ratting. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
422
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Ginseng Jita wrote:
If all the people in null-sec left, others would move in and take their place. The game is not all about null-sec. Never has been. It is because of this fact that a few. like yourself that whine and moan about the rest of the game, that the rest of the game is constantly being shelved to address a small percentage of players. There are more people playing than just you - remember that....many, many, many, more.
We've seen your hi sec community in action with the recent incursion nerf. "We're a vital and relevant roleplaying community CCP and the bonds we've forged will endure through time" --1 nerf later-- "ISK/hr for incursion not good enough I'm gonna solo level 4s again" Yep. You guys totally have the drive, determination, and skill it takes to build a nullsec empire. You only complain about it because nullsec is too hard for you because it would require you to form real connections with other people and actually fight for something. Yeah look, concerning the bolded bit up there, I have a job and a family. I'm the boss all day and I only have between one and three hours to log on to Eve for some fun and laughs. Tore down the hisec POS because feeding it got to be like a job. Damned if I'm gonna burn too many IQ points doing personnel, logistics and accounting work when I log on. If that's what you enjoy, or need to feel like you're significant, go for it. I'm playing Eve for fun and the srs bsnss pvppppppers often strike me as a tragic minority of douches. The CSM is loaded with em so they can vent their frustrations maybe?
Yeah you really didn't address anything there no offense. One doesn't have to lead a community to be a part of it. For every "Dynamic Leader" and "Heroic Logistics Team" there are a dozen guys who just play when they can, chill out and are active members of the community who add to it by simply being there.
The fact that the "Incursion Community" couldn't survive a punchdown in payouts that brought it about even with mission running just shows that it was never a "Community". Just a means to an end. There is nothing embarrassing about it. Our incursion SIG (Special Interest Group) literally keeled over and died with the changes, and we were doing them in low. We were there for the money, when the money dried up to the point where doing anoms in our home space was a similar enough payout not to justify living out of our carriers, we went home.
Oh and I think they got hit too hard as well. But that's neither here nor there. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
426
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:
I wonder if the Incursion code is irrespective of security rating of the system?
It seems like the risk vs. reward should scale up.
If low/null Incursions pay the same as high-sec's, that's really a horse of a different color.
Personally, I feel high-sec Incursions were hit quite rightly.
Oh hey: Knowledge that I can post on!
Highsec incursions did pay less, but the complete lack or risk allowed for fitting and optimization that made them pay out far more than a group doing lowsec incursions could make if they were to fit prudent to their situations due to the speed at which they could be run.
The name of the game in lowsec incursions was HAC's and T3's that way you were moderately nimble, well tanked and small sigged running with at least 3 logi's. This was pretty much how they had to be run in null and low because tangling with pirates wasn't something that "May" happen. It was something that simply was going to happen.
I didn't go to a single incursion where we didn't fight off a gang or lose members of the incursion group to gangs that successfully jumped us.
If we were to run the big Mach/Vindi etc etc etc gangs like the highsec people were: We'd have been murdered in very expensive ships due to the giant sigs. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
427
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 02:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:Tippia wrote:What he and I are saying is that the amount of people in highsec is unknowable and that trying to extrapolate them from something as unrelated as a character count will be so inherently unreliable that, yes, it could very well be that highsec has a minority of the players. The first chart that shows around 70% is a "Population" count; the chart with the 66% is a "Character above 5m sp" count. But both 70% and 66% are still a "majority", and it's pretty clear that the presenter is talking in terms of players. The first charts are titled "Where in the world do people live?" Unless you want to take it up with Dr EyjoG? 
How would you differentiate between my Carrier pilot who spends most of his time in low and my subcap dude who spends most of his time in null (And admittedly sometimes low)? The only real way to find out of I'm a guy who likes roaming nullsec but makes my home in low is to ask me. I have ships spread all over hell so even looking at my primary accumulation of assets won't work. Especially since I still have most of my incursion staging crap in the bowels of lowsec.
Also the thought that CCP has a reporting tool competent enough to make these distinctions is laughable. We're talking about "Zee logs show nothing!" CCP here. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
427
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Disregard That wrote:
This is quite insightful. Quite insightful, indeed.
So what this means is that, typically, low and null Incursions pay less reward for their relative risk than high-sec Incursions?
Yeah, maybe they were hit too hard. But not in high-sec.
From my understanding if you discount combat losses and compared a straight "Isk per hour" assuming you were single boxing: Highsec incursions were making about 10-20M an hour more than those of us in lowsec with absolutely no risk. Bear in mind that my own knowledge of isk per hour in highsec is mainly second hand here. On average WE were netting about 90-100m an hour, mainly dependent on how many newbee's in hurricanes we were letting in :v |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
428
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yeah look: I know my way around a database, and I'm telling you right now that CCP does not have a nice pat query that is going to tell them that kind of information without some pretty ******* hefty guessing and interpretation. Mainly for the reasons I stated.
Once again.
I have two characters. One is sitting in lowsec: most of his assets are in lowsec.
The other is sitting in Nullsec: most of his assets are in nullsec.
Now lets pretend my alliance is one of those that floats between NPC null and Low.
Am I a nullsec player, or a lowsec player? |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
428
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Tippia, take from it what you will (hell, I know a hi-sec player who at one time ran 26 accounts, all in hi-sec - there will always be statistical flyers) the snapshots show a consistent trend - as you say, it would be a logistical nightmare to know where all the players are. But given a long enough time frame and the numbers remaining somewhat consistent year to year, character activity is the best information we have. vOv
To get back to the OP (and my point) Null sec'ers need to do a better job of recruiting and supporting new players if they want them to leave hi-sec.
Bottom line.
Part of the problem is for entire chunk of nullsec isk generation is absolute bullshit for the individual player. So you get people who spend days running L4's to support a PVP habit that pops up once a week in null.
Our alliance and our allies are unique in that we attempt to make our space livable: But even then a good chunk of our population is probably sitting in highsec right now running missions. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
428
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Surely common sense tells you that the type of player who'd go to the effort of hiding things that much is going to be relatively rare. It wouldn't bias the numbers that much, certainly not enough to change a substantial majority into a minority.
I'm guessing but I don't think it was obfuscation: There's more than one case of boyfriends and girlfriends playing together. And I know one guy shoots eve videos with his daughter. Two players, two accounts, probably even two computers, one IP, one credit card.
I don't think it's statistically noteworthy though. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
428
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 03:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Which are you more active on?
Now? The nullsec guy. But when Incursions didn't suck I was in lowsec most of the time. But all of that money was being funneled back into nullsec.
This is why that categorization is inherently broken. It pretends people don't bounce between the sec's on a regular basis. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
436
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 21:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:masternerdguy wrote:... Fun fact: The real world, where you have a job and taxes, is a pure sandbox. You *can* do anything, but you must acquire the prerequisite capital (resources), team (friends), and knowledge (science) to do it. ... Aaand, I'm protected by forces paid for by my taxes... Which of course has nothing to do with say, the concept of Highsec and Concord...
This is now how it works actually. I can run up to a person and shoot them in the head. No magic cop is going to pop out of thin air and stop the bullet from killing them. What is going to happen is the police and judicial system is going to do their best to ensure that I get punished for that crime: Hence concord.
You could wiffle waffle and make claims about how judicial sentencing is a bit more final than what concord does: But given the rates of recidivism in violent offenders: It's really bullshit. Also we exist in a system where the victim happily comes back to life after the "Fatal" shot. So the harshness of the punishment needs to also mellow out in order to reflect that. |
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