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Yristor
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Posted - 2009.10.05 05:50:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Yristor on 05/10/2009 08:35:04
 Originally by: Logit Probit
Interesting that there seems to be a lot of disagreement here. Goes to show that there is only a loosely-defined normative structure regarding ransom payments. There seems to be somewhat of a consensus that immediate ransom payment should be met with release, but as soon as the player who is being ransomed deviates from expected behavior, opinions on what is/is not acceptable vary widely.
...
Can this analogy be extended to other situations in EvE, such as station fights and carebear/ninja conflicts?
In these situations, often the player who ends up getting ransomed is the one who initiates conflict or makes the first aggressive move. Also, the incentive structure constraining the behavior of the ransomer in these situations seems different to me, because not being pirates, they do not depend on ransoms as the core source of income.
Thoughts, C&P?
Non-pirates have no incentive to honor ransoms, because their future expected income isn't affected.
Since players have a low probability of encountering the same pirate twice (unless they both frequent the same systems), pirates' future income expectations from ransoms rests on pirates as a group honoring ransoms, such that a player feels safe paying a pirate he has no personal history with.
Of course, some pirates don't give a **** about income and just like to pew pew, and since players can't easily differentiate the two types, pirates' overall income suffers.
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Lord Cath
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:07:00 -
[32]
would you have honoured it if he had payed immediately though ?
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Rico Minali
Gallente
Sons Of 0din
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:21:00 -
[33]
As a pirate, I have to say you were not in the wrong unless you never intended to honour the ransom. Ransoms should be honoured because basically its the only worthwhile income a pirate makes and so we want people to trust that itll be honoured, so they pay up... Non paying customers are..well, just killmails..
But, since he tried to scam you with a crappy 500K for what are very expensive ships then he was a fool and you did the right thing. Do not try to rip off pirates, itll only end in carebear tears...
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
guska Cryotank
Gallente
ZCMI
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Posted - 2009.10.05 11:42:00 -
[34]
As a non-pirate who has had a few ransoms dishonoured (on this char and various alts)...Actually, never had one honoured, but even pirates gotta make ISK too... I fully believe you to be in the right.
As mentioned, if he had paid 50mil, then you could understand a mistake (under pressure and such), but 500k, both ships deserved to die, pods too if it had been lowsec.
Seriously, if people keep not paying ransoms, or trying to pull this sort of crap, the pirates are going to stop offering them.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.05 12:47:00 -
[35]
ITT: We learn why trying to scam someone who has your billion ISK ship scrammed and in hull is a very bad idea.
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Alliance Overlord
Nightmare Carnival
Taboo.
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Posted - 2009.10.05 13:42:00 -
[36]
Originally by: jimmyjam
I dont care what anyone says blowing up a target after he payed ransom is lame i would kick people out of my corp for doing that ish.
He tried to pass off 500k as 500mill...and paid the price
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Alty McAltyalt
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:00:00 -
[37]
Honoring a ransom is only more profitable than not honoring a ransom if you expect some return business. People like this won't ever agress a ninja again, so you might as well ransom and kill him anyway.
Sure, it might make it harder for other people to ransom him somewhere else in the future. But you'll never see the dude again, so what do you care? |
Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:16:00 -
[38]
I don't pay ransoms anymore, never had one honored, so I stopped...BUT, the dumbass deserves to be blown up for trying to scam while he's at a disadvantage.
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olzi
Caldari
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:40:00 -
[39]
Right, so you're working from home one day, when an intruder smashes the front door in and begins to beat the **** out of you. Just before you begin to black out, he says:
"Give me your wallet and I won't burn the whole house down."
Now, instead of giving him your wallet, you try to pass your daughters pink hello kitty wallet as your own to him. What do you think is going to happen next ?
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Hanso Sparxx
Order of Shadows
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:47:00 -
[40]
He tried to scam you for 500 mil. He got what he deserved.
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Go Deep! |
Uncle Maxx
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:48:00 -
[41]
The carebear forgot the first rule of Eve:
Never fly what you can't afford to lose.
Assume that the ship is already lost once you undock, all of the isk you make is towards the purchase of the next ship.
If he had followed this rule he would have laughed at your ransom negotiations and would have ended this encounter 500.5 million isk richer.
You can not buy your way out of danger. This should be the new first rule of Eve. |
VengeanceMK2
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Posted - 2009.10.05 17:02:00 -
[42]
loL, the carebears actually tried to fish you with a few zeros, thats the first part where he was trying to fool you. He deserved to die even if he ransomed you with 500m when a Golem and Tengu got under structure. At first, he should not decide to shoot you unless he is well prepared encounting other peers you might bring along. There are basically no honors besides smacks when you do piracy or even fair dual pvp. So killing him after getting ransom is ok I guess, and it's 100% up to you on your mood to kill or let him go.
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jimmyjam
Gallente
Sinner Among Saints
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2009.10.05 17:20:00 -
[43]
Originally by: olzi
Right, so you're working from home one day, when an intruder smashes the front door in and begins to beat the **** out of you. Just before you begin to black out, he says:
"Give me your wallet and I won't burn the whole house down."
Now, instead of giving him your wallet, you try to pass your daughters pink hello kitty wallet as your own to him. What do you think is going to happen next ?
So eve is Rl then right. Real world rules dont apply here. The whole issuse thats in question here really seems to be the target stalling for time with fake amounts.Me personaly i will raise the amount of the ransom if they do this to waste my time.Good pirates will honor there word despite the antics of the target.I would be safe to say most new school pies give dont give a F*** about it.
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Laruant Wiggins
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.05 17:40:00 -
[44]
As a non-pvping carebear, I have no problem with what you did.
He tried to scam you.
You did the right thing.
To those that think OP was wrong...you do know this is the Eve Online forums right?
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AvaAlt
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Posted - 2009.10.05 21:08:00 -
[45]
The guy tried to rip you off for 500m, after making the choice to agress you in the first place. The loss is on his head, imo. If he had paid the 500m in the first place, and you then blew him up, would be a far different scenario. He learned stupidity is painful.
All the people whining that ninja salvaging should be "flaggable" would do well to read this tbh.
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Xaunt Rauber
Minmatar
The Undead Righteous Knights
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Posted - 2009.10.05 21:27:00 -
[46]
You offered him the chance to buy his way out. He tried to scam you. You killed him. He made his mistake, and tried to make up for it. I'd say you'd have worse Karma if you'd not killed him after he paid the full ransom. Fool's like this need to learn to either pay ransoms or take there licks. Not try to scam there way out of it, after they've ******ly shot a ninja salvager as well.
Poor fella was only trying to clean up after them.
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guska Cryotank
Gallente
ZCMI
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Posted - 2009.10.05 21:32:00 -
[47]
I had a thought, and correct me if I'm being a nub, but surely the Tengu pilot *SHOULD* have had more sense than to let his mate try something that stupid. I mean after all, he does have a fair bit more to lose than the Golem pilot, in terms of ISK value and SP.
Possibly could have ransomed the Tengu seperately for a lot more than 500.5mil, or used the 500mil as the ransom for the Tengu.
God damn how many times did I write Tengu in there? Tengu Tengu Tengu Tengu Tengu Tengu
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Gilad Ayn
Gallente
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.10.05 22:16:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Alty McAltyalt
Honoring a ransom is only more profitable than not honoring a ransom if you expect some return business. People like this won't ever agress a ninja again, so you might as well ransom and kill him anyway.
Sure, it might make it harder for other people to ransom him somewhere else in the future. But you'll never see the dude again, so what do you care?
Tragedy of the Commons, really.
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Logit Probit
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Posted - 2009.10.05 23:12:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Alty McAltyalt
Honoring a ransom is only more profitable than not honoring a ransom if you expect some return business. People like this won't ever agress a ninja again, so you might as well ransom and kill him anyway.
Sure, it might make it harder for other people to ransom him somewhere else in the future. But you'll never see the dude again, so what do you care?
Favorite response, so far. Well thought out, and to the point. Plus, toon portrait is F'ing Brutor. Hats off to you sir!
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