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Logit Probit	Posted - 2009.10.04 06:18:00 - [1] So I was ninja-salvaging (and looting) in my usual highsec haunt and a Tengu and Golem that I was not expecting to get shoosty with me, did indeed get shoosty with me. I summoned Ozzy the Australian for assistance, and within no time at all the offending carebears were both warp scrambled. The Golem was packing remote shield reps, so we decided to pound him first. After we broke the Golem's tank, I convo'd him and demanded 800 mil. (A scan had revealed a pretty bad fitting; All Tech II, with the only faction mods being a pair of Gist B-type hardeners.) After some haggling, I accepted an offer of 500 mil. My wallet blinked, and he says "ok ISK sent, let me go." I open my wallet. 500,000 ISK. We re-apply the DPS. Just as his structure fails, he says, "OK, just hold on" and the wallet blinks again. I blew him up anyway, and then we killed his wingman's Tengu. After the fight, I checked my wallet again. 500,000,000 ISK this time. * C&P, I ask you the following question: Who comes out of this with worse karma, us or them? * (I'll post killmails upon request)
Soralio Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.04 06:23:00 - [2] The way I see it, he paid his ransom and it was not enough, so you had any and all rights to shoot him, aye? If at that point you decided to kill him because the ransom was not enough, nothing is stopping you from 'accepting' a charitable donation of 500mil, since you've already ransomed him. Also, KMs plz. HYRDA WILL PROVAIL
Rock urSocksoff The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.10.04 06:27:00 - [3] He ****ed up, you're in the right.
Logit Probit	Posted - 2009.10.04 06:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Soralio Also, KMs plz. Very well. Might take 2 posts. 2009.10.04 01:43:00 Victim: Corp: Alliance: Faction: Destroyed: Golem System: Security: 0.9 Damage Taken: 37721 Involved parties: Name: Logit Probit (laid the final blow) Security: 1.0 Corp: Sebiestor tribe Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Pilgrim Weapon: Infiltrator II Damage Done: 22864 Name: Security: 4.5 Corp: Alliance: Faction: Ship: Guardian Weapon: Acolyte II Damage Done: 9368 Name: Core Rear Admiral / Serpentis Damage Done: 5489 Destroyed items: Broken Drone Transceiver, Qty: 7 (Cargo) 1MN Afterburner I (Cargo) Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 27 Cargo Scanner I (Cargo) Gist B-Type Photon Scattering Field Large Shield Transporter II Monopulse Tracking Mechanism I (Cargo) Armor Plates, Qty: 4 (Cargo) Small Armor Repairer I (Cargo) Small Nosferatu I (Cargo) Fried Interface Circuit (Cargo) Cap Recharger II, Qty: 2 Power Diagnostic System II, Qty: 2 Large Capacitor Control Circuit I, Qty: 2 Lead Charge M, Qty: 100 (Cargo) Medium Remote Armor Repair System I, Qty: 3 (Cargo) 100MN Afterburner II Ballistic Deflection Field II Small Energy Transfer Array I (Cargo) Contaminated Lorentz Fluid, Qty: 13 (Cargo) Contaminated Nanite Compound, Qty: 8 (Cargo) Burned Logic Circuit, Qty: 3 (Cargo) Damaged Artificial Neural Network, Qty: 8 (Cargo) Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 2750 (Cargo) Cruise Missile Launcher II, Qty: 2 Acolyte I (Cargo) Small Remote Armor Repair System I (Cargo) Medium Capacitor Battery I (Cargo) Dropped items: Survey Scanner I, Qty: 2 (Cargo) Small Capacitor Booster I (Cargo) Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 81 X-Large Shield Booster II Charred Micro Circuit, Qty: 7 (Cargo) Iridium Charge M, Qty: 100 (Cargo) Tripped Power Circuit, Qty: 41 (Cargo) Small Shield Booster I (Cargo) Tracking Disruptor I (Cargo) Infiltrator I (Cargo) Tungsten Charge M, Qty: 100 (Cargo) Power Diagnostic System II, Qty: 2 Antimatter Charge M, Qty: 100 (Cargo) Salvager I Gist B-Type Heat Dissipation Field Small Tractor Beam I Small Capacitor Battery I (Cargo) 150mm Railgun I (Cargo) Ship Scanner I (Cargo) Conductive Polymer, Qty: 6 (Cargo) Cruise Missile Launcher II, Qty: 2 Medium Proton Smartbomb I (Cargo) Large Remote Armor Repair System I (Cargo) Ogre II, Qty: 2 (Drone Bay)
Logit Probit	Posted - 2009.10.04 06:36:00 - [5] 2009.10.04 01:45:00 Victim: Corp: Alliance: Faction: Destroyed: Tengu System: Security: 0.9 Damage Taken: 21106 Involved parties: Name: Logit Probit (laid the final blow) Security: 1.0 Corp: Sebiestor tribe Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Pilgrim Weapon: Infiltrator II Damage Done: 16716 Name: Security: 4.5 Corp: Alliance: Faction: Ship: Guardian Weapon: Acolyte II Damage Done: 4390 Destroyed items: Invulnerability Field II Damage Control II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I, Qty: 3 10MN Afterburner II Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Heavy Missile Launcher II Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 47 Dropped items: Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 1638 (Cargo) X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Power Diagnostic System II, Qty: 3 Large Shield Booster II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Qty: 4 Gist B-Type Photon Scattering Field Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile, Qty: 87
Rock urSocksoff The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.10.04 06:51:00 - [6] Those are some pretty mediocre fits for 2 good ships
PiratesBiteMe	Posted - 2009.10.04 06:59:00 - [7] why I never pay ransoms anymore... been about a year since I had a ransom honored...about 9 months since I even considered the offer when given one. 90% of the time I can: 1. Die. 2. Pay ransom and die anyway. So the few bad apples that kill after ransom, have screwed it for those that truly want to "catch and release" me.
whispous Gallente NibbleTek	Posted - 2009.10.04 12:27:00 - [8] You were right to kill him. You gave him an honest chance to save himself, he tried to cheat you, so good for blowing him up and keeping the money.
Dirk Culliford H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.10.04 13:55:00 - [9] Originally by: PiratesBiteMe why I never pay ransoms anymore... been about a year since I had a ransom honored...about 9 months since I even considered the offer when given one. 90% of the time I can: 1. Die. 2. Pay ransom and die anyway. So the few bad apples that kill after ransom, have screwed it for those that truly want to "catch and release" me. The guy tried to pass off 500k as 500M. If he's going to act like an idiot when he has billions of isk on the line he deserved to lose his ships.
Venetian Tar Black Water.	Posted - 2009.10.04 14:04:00 - [10] No hono(u)r. Nice kills though.
Vulpes macrotis	Posted - 2009.10.04 14:28:00 - [11] Edited by: Vulpes macrotis on 04/10/2009 14:30:02 Edited by: Vulpes macrotis on 04/10/2009 14:28:50 Ransom paid? - Check Ships destroyed? - Check Can't see it as anything other than dishonoured ransom to be honest, regardless of how you spin it. Sorry. The fact you post this story here "For our consideration" suggests you see it the same way too tbh.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.04 14:45:00 - [12] It depends; If after the fake payment you just kept silent and not try to reopen negotiation but started firing again then it's very simple; you offered him a ransom, which he borked and now he's going to die for it. Whatever he does after that (without being agreed upon by you) is completely up to him. After the real ransom he can try to renegotiate and make a new deal but if he just sends cash without getting your agreement on a new ransom that's his fault, regardless of how much time you had to realise you got paid. If you DID get into an argument with him afterwards and agreed again, got paid according to the new ransom and THEN blew him up, it would have been your 'fault'.
jimmyjam Gallente Sinner Among Saints Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2009.10.04 16:33:00 - [13] I dont care what anyone says blowing up a target after he payed ransom is lame i would kick people out of my corp for doing that ish.
Asuka Smith Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.10.04 16:40:00 - [14] Looks to me like he tried to cheat you with a scam ransom payment. He got what he deserved for his arrogance and if you explain what happened to anyone who calls you out for dishonouring you will not catch any flack.
Suzie Slurp	Posted - 2009.10.04 17:14:00 - [15] you asked for 500mil he paid you 500.5mil which what was not what you asked for... therefore he did not pay the ransom but gave you a donation.
Joe Starbreaker Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2009.10.04 17:27:00 - [16] I think it was a good job. The only thing that troubles me is that you give the impression you would have allowed him to go if he'd paid the ransom properly? You wouldn't really have let them go, would you?
Doktor Feeelgoood	Posted - 2009.10.04 19:16:00 - [17] You should have checked your wallet again. You had a chance to degress but didnt. You need to pay the 500 back.
Logit Probit	Posted - 2009.10.04 22:11:00 - [18] Interesting that there seems to be a lot of disagreement here. Goes to show that there is only a loosely-defined normative structure regarding ransom payments. There seems to be somewhat of a consensus that immediate ransom payment should be met with release, but as soon as the player who is being ransomed deviates from expected behavior, opinions on what is/is not acceptable vary widely. Here's a related discussion topic- Ransoming by pirates clearly has a long history beyond this game. Anyone operating in a dangerous, lawless area who draws attention to themselves can expect to be forced to pay protection money to local organized crime. Clearly, it is in the interest of the organized crime to not rough up those who pay protection money. Can this analogy be extended to other situations in EvE, such as station fights and carebear/ninja conflicts? In these situations, often the player who ends up getting ransomed is the one who initiates conflict or makes the first aggressive move. Also, the incentive structure constraining the behavior of the ransomer in these situations seems different to me, because not being pirates, they do not depend on ransoms as the core source of income. Thoughts, C&P?
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.10.04 22:28:00 - [19] Originally by: jimmyjam I dont care what anyone says blowing up a target after he payed ransom is lame i would kick people out of my corp for doing that ish. We will take the people you kick. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Ather Ialeas Amarr the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.10.05 00:52:00 - [20] Originally by: Logit Probit Interesting that there seems to be a lot of disagreement here. Goes to show that there is only a loosely-defined normative structure regarding ransom payments. There seems to be somewhat of a consensus that immediate ransom payment should be met with release, but as soon as the player who is being ransomed deviates from expected behavior, opinions on what is/is not acceptable vary widely. Here's a related discussion topic- Ransoming by pirates clearly has a long history beyond this game. Anyone operating in a dangerous, lawless area who draws attention to themselves can expect to be forced to pay protection money to local organized crime. Clearly, it is in the interest of the organized crime to not rough up those who pay protection money. Can this analogy be extended to other situations in EvE, such as station fights and carebear/ninja conflicts? In these situations, often the player who ends up getting ransomed is the one who initiates conflict or makes the first aggressive move. Also, the incentive structure constraining the behavior of the ransomer in these situations seems different to me, because not being pirates, they do not depend on ransoms as the core source of income. Thoughts, C&P? Used a lot of words here to say absolutely nothing.
HottyChick	Posted - 2009.10.05 00:56:00 - [21] U are 1 of those who should be removed from eve permanently. 1.you were salvaging hes wrecks and stealing hes loot. 2.he paid ransom. 3.u killed them both. You have no honour watsoever. You dishonour pirat society.(pirats when ransom keep given word!) You failed and I hope and I wish you exactly same wat you did to them It will come back-its called karma
Lucia Wilber King's Pride Manufacturing Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.05 01:21:00 - [22] Edited by: Lucia Wilber on 05/10/2009 01:21:18 Originally by: HottyChick U are 1 of those who should be removed from eve permanently. 1.you were salvaging hes wrecks and stealing hes loot. 2.he paid ransom. 3.u killed them both. You have no honour watsoever. You dishonour pirat society.(pirats when ransom keep given word!) You failed and I hope and I wish you exactly same wat you did to them It will come back-its called karma People like that are what keep CCP in business! As for the ransom. No...it wasn't paid. The ****** tried to trick his way out of it. The trick failed, so only THEN did he try to pay up. This is like someone trying to steal an expensive item from a store, then when they get caught and arrested for shoplifting, they say "This is BS! I offered to pay for it after I got caught! WTF?!"
AdmiralJohn Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub	Posted - 2009.10.05 01:25:00 - [23] I'm pretty sure you're in the right, here. Imagine if you scammed him out of something, saying it's 500 million ISK but only paying 500 thousand. He'd be pretty **ed, right? Call you dishonorable s**and all that jazz, maybe even hire mercenaries out on you. You did nothing to him he wouldn't have done to you were the positions reversed, except you didn't shed tears, you shed blood.
Dessie Enta Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.10.05 02:14:00 - [24] Originally by: Logit Probit Interesting that there seems to be a lot of disagreement here. Goes to show that there is only a loosely-defined normative structure regarding ransom payments. There seems to be somewhat of a consensus that immediate ransom payment should be met with release, but as soon as the player who is being ransomed deviates from expected behavior, opinions on what is/is not acceptable vary widely. Here's a related discussion topic- Ransoming by pirates clearly has a long history beyond this game. Anyone operating in a dangerous, lawless area who draws attention to themselves can expect to be forced to pay protection money to local organized crime. Clearly, it is in the interest of the organized crime to not rough up those who pay protection money. Can this analogy be extended to other situations in EvE, such as station fights and carebear/ninja conflicts? In these situations, often the player who ends up getting ransomed is the one who initiates conflict or makes the first aggressive move. Also, the incentive structure constraining the behavior of the ransomer in these situations seems different to me, because not being pirates, they do not depend on ransoms as the core source of income. Thoughts, C&P? Despite all of this useless babble, it's pretty obvious that you never intended to honour the ransom.
Bunzan Cardinal Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.10.05 02:30:00 - [25] ransom amount wasnt paid for at the time it was asked for. The golem tried to scam you and gave you what you asked for after the newb found out his scam didnt work .... he deserved it. I would have done the same, he didnt pay the ransom when you asked thus making the offer void.
Logit Probit	Posted - 2009.10.05 02:40:00 - [26] Originally by: Ather Ialeas Originally by: Logit Probit Interesting that there seems to be a lot of disagreement here. Goes to show that there is only a loosely-defined normative structure regarding ransom payments. There seems to be somewhat of a consensus that immediate ransom payment should be met with release, but as soon as the player who is being ransomed deviates from expected behavior, opinions on what is/is not acceptable vary widely. Here's a related discussion topic- Ransoming by pirates clearly has a long history beyond this game. Anyone operating in a dangerous, lawless area who draws attention to themselves can expect to be forced to pay protection money to local organized crime. Clearly, it is in the interest of the organized crime to not rough up those who pay protection money. Can this analogy be extended to other situations in EvE, such as station fights and carebear/ninja conflicts? In these situations, often the player who ends up getting ransomed is the one who initiates conflict or makes the first aggressive move. Also, the incentive structure constraining the behavior of the ransomer in these situations seems different to me, because not being pirates, they do not depend on ransoms as the core source of income. Thoughts, C&P? Used a lot of words here to say absolutely nothing. I guess constructive criticism is too much to expect from such a busy guy. It's cool, I understand that those T1 frigates and cruisers aren't going to blob themselves.
Lucia Wilber King's Pride Manufacturing Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.05 02:57:00 - [27] You have to love people complaining about the lack of honor exibited by pirates and then using real life pirates as a comparison. Men that basically swore an oath and then spat in its face to become pirates in the first place. Men that stole, ****d, and plundered. There were a FEW relatively honorable pirates, yes. However, the vast majority of them were complete jerks. The only times they would honor ransoms would be if killing the hostage could bring down the might of a rich family or government down on them. Pirates thoughtlessly murdered thousands of people, and killed thousands more that were innocent bystanders, women and children that just happened to live in the port towns they would often bombard with cannon fire for a while to soften up the defenses before finally raiding them on foot to make away with the loot. You need to stop using Disney movies as a reference for pirate lore.
Lana's Alt Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.10.05 02:57:00 - [28] This really is a morality question and as such everyone's opinion will be different.. I'll give you my take on it. Originally by: Logit Probit I convo'd him and demanded 800 mil. After some haggling, I accepted an offer of 500 mil. OK, so while I don't believe in negotiating ransoms a 'deal' was struck. You receive 500M and he keeps his ship. Originally by: Logit Probit My wallet blinked, and he says "ok ISK sent, let me go." I open my wallet. 500,000 ISK. He has dishonored the negotiated ransom. Personally at this point I would have advised him as such, but I guess you aren't obliged to as he did miss 3 zeros (missing 1 would have been a believable mistake). Originally by: Logit Probit We re-apply the DPS. Just as his structure fails, he says, "OK, just hold on" Which basically says he knows what he did. No tears about 'I paid stop shooting' so it wasn't a mistake. The bear dishonored his part of the ransom. Originally by: Logit Probit and the wallet blinks again. I blew him up anyway, and then we killed his wingman's Tengu. So now you get to choose how honorable you are. 'Squeaky clean' would be to return his 500M isk (with a note saying to pay in full next time). Every other moral ground involves you keeping his isk. If you wish to keep the isk and play the morality card still you should send him a mail advising that you blew him up because he dishonored the ransom, if he would not have done that he and his wingman wouldn't be down 2 rather expensive ships now. If you wish to take the least moral ground then send him some smack about how bad his fit was and he should have just spent the 500M on a better fit in the first place. Istvaan Shogaatsu: As with most such situations the answer is simple: rob them first.
Lyris Nairn Caldari Yakiya Tovil-Toba Memorial Foundation REIGN Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.05 05:22:00 - [29] Edited by: Lyris Nairn on 05/10/2009 05:24:40 Assuming that you are in fact a right-honourable member of a pirating organization in keeping with good standards and practices as put forth by the IEEE, and that thereby your conveyance of the ordering of events what have transpired may be fully trusted to be accurate beyond reproach, it therefore appears to me that you acted within your rights but not extensively so. I am in concurrence with Lana on this one: you had no obligation to NOT kill him once he tried to trick you, and what to do about re-negotiation or returning the money was entirely up to you. That said, piracy is bad m'kay. -- Quite possibly the nicest person who'd ever want to kill you.
Mutant Caldari Caldari Psykotic Meat Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.10.05 05:49:00 - [30] Originally by: Logit Probit So I was ninja-salvaging (and looting) in my usual highsec haunt and a Tengu and Golem that I was not expecting to get shoosty with me, did indeed get shoosty with me. I summoned Ozzy the Australian for assistance, and within no time at all the offending carebears were both warp scrambled. The Golem was packing remote shield reps, so we decided to pound him first. After we broke the Golem's tank, I convo'd him and demanded 800 mil. (A scan had revealed a pretty bad fitting; All Tech II, with the only faction mods being a pair of Gist B-type hardeners.) After some haggling, I accepted an offer of 500 mil. My wallet blinked, and he says "ok ISK sent, let me go." I open my wallet. 500,000 ISK. We re-apply the DPS. Just as his structure fails, he says, "OK, just hold on" and the wallet blinks again. I blew him up anyway, and then we killed his wingman's Tengu. After the fight, I checked my wallet again. 500,000,000 ISK this time. * C&P, I ask you the following question: Who comes out of this with worse karma, us or them? * (I'll post killmails upon request) Did exactly as I would have. He tried to fool you by intentionally sending you 500k ISK instead of the agreed upon 500 mil so both ships deserved to be popped. Those who say that you dishonored a ransom have no idea what they are talking about and most likely never will. Anyways nice kills and you did the right thing from my viewpoint. Yeah I am a pirate. What are you gonna do about it?
Yristor	Posted - 2009.10.05 05:50:00 - [31] Edited by: Yristor on 05/10/2009 08:35:04 Originally by: Logit Probit Interesting that there seems to be a lot of disagreement here. Goes to show that there is only a loosely-defined normative structure regarding ransom payments. There seems to be somewhat of a consensus that immediate ransom payment should be met with release, but as soon as the player who is being ransomed deviates from expected behavior, opinions on what is/is not acceptable vary widely. ... Can this analogy be extended to other situations in EvE, such as station fights and carebear/ninja conflicts? In these situations, often the player who ends up getting ransomed is the one who initiates conflict or makes the first aggressive move. Also, the incentive structure constraining the behavior of the ransomer in these situations seems different to me, because not being pirates, they do not depend on ransoms as the core source of income. Thoughts, C&P? Non-pirates have no incentive to honor ransoms, because their future expected income isn't affected. Since players have a low probability of encountering the same pirate twice (unless they both frequent the same systems), pirates' future income expectations from ransoms rests on pirates as a group honoring ransoms, such that a player feels safe paying a pirate he has no personal history with. Of course, some pirates don't give a **** about income and just like to pew pew, and since players can't easily differentiate the two types, pirates' overall income suffers.
Lord Cath	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:07:00 - [32] would you have honoured it if he had payed immediately though ?
Rico Minali Gallente Sons Of 0din Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:21:00 - [33] As a pirate, I have to say you were not in the wrong unless you never intended to honour the ransom. Ransoms should be honoured because basically its the only worthwhile income a pirate makes and so we want people to trust that itll be honoured, so they pay up... Non paying customers are..well, just killmails.. But, since he tried to scam you with a crappy 500K for what are very expensive ships then he was a fool and you did the right thing. Do not try to rip off pirates, itll only end in carebear tears... Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
guska Cryotank Gallente ZCMI	Posted - 2009.10.05 11:42:00 - [34] As a non-pirate who has had a few ransoms dishonoured (on this char and various alts)...Actually, never had one honoured, but even pirates gotta make ISK too... I fully believe you to be in the right. As mentioned, if he had paid 50mil, then you could understand a mistake (under pressure and such), but 500k, both ships deserved to die, pods too if it had been lowsec. Seriously, if people keep not paying ransoms, or trying to pull this sort of crap, the pirates are going to stop offering them.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.10.05 12:47:00 - [35] ITT: We learn why trying to scam someone who has your billion ISK ship scrammed and in hull is a very bad idea.
Alliance Overlord Nightmare Carnival Taboo.	Posted - 2009.10.05 13:42:00 - [36] Originally by: jimmyjam I dont care what anyone says blowing up a target after he payed ransom is lame i would kick people out of my corp for doing that ish. He tried to pass off 500k as 500mill...and paid the price
Alty McAltyalt	Posted - 2009.10.05 15:00:00 - [37] Honoring a ransom is only more profitable than not honoring a ransom if you expect some return business. People like this won't ever agress a ninja again, so you might as well ransom and kill him anyway. Sure, it might make it harder for other people to ransom him somewhere else in the future. But you'll never see the dude again, so what do you care?
Barakkus Caelestis Iudicium	Posted - 2009.10.05 15:16:00 - [38] I don't pay ransoms anymore, never had one honored, so I stopped...BUT, the dumbass deserves to be blown up for trying to scam while he's at a disadvantage.
olzi Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.10.05 15:40:00 - [39] Right, so you're working from home one day, when an intruder smashes the front door in and begins to beat the **** out of you. Just before you begin to black out, he says: "Give me your wallet and I won't burn the whole house down." Now, instead of giving him your wallet, you try to pass your daughters pink hello kitty wallet as your own to him. What do you think is going to happen next ?
Hanso Sparxx Order of Shadows	Posted - 2009.10.05 15:47:00 - [40] He tried to scam you for 500 mil. He got what he deserved. ------------------ Go Deep!
Uncle Maxx	Posted - 2009.10.05 16:48:00 - [41] The carebear forgot the first rule of Eve: Never fly what you can't afford to lose. Assume that the ship is already lost once you undock, all of the isk you make is towards the purchase of the next ship. If he had followed this rule he would have laughed at your ransom negotiations and would have ended this encounter 500.5 million isk richer. You can not buy your way out of danger. This should be the new first rule of Eve.
VengeanceMK2	Posted - 2009.10.05 17:02:00 - [42] loL, the carebears actually tried to fish you with a few zeros, thats the first part where he was trying to fool you. He deserved to die even if he ransomed you with 500m when a Golem and Tengu got under structure. At first, he should not decide to shoot you unless he is well prepared encounting other peers you might bring along. There are basically no honors besides smacks when you do piracy or even fair dual pvp. So killing him after getting ransom is ok I guess, and it's 100% up to you on your mood to kill or let him go.
jimmyjam Gallente Sinner Among Saints Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2009.10.05 17:20:00 - [43] Originally by: olzi Right, so you're working from home one day, when an intruder smashes the front door in and begins to beat the ** out of you. Just before you begin to black out, he says: "Give me your wallet and I won't burn the whole house down." Now, instead of giving him your wallet, you try to pass your daughters pink hello kitty wallet as your own to him. What do you think is going to happen next ? So eve is Rl then right. Real world rules dont apply here. The whole issuse thats in question here really seems to be the target stalling for time with fake amounts.Me personaly i will raise the amount of the ransom if they do this to waste my time.Good pirates will honor there word despite the antics of the target.I would be safe to say most new school pies give dont give a F* about it.
Laruant Wiggins Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.05 17:40:00 - [44] As a non-pvping carebear, I have no problem with what you did. He tried to scam you. You did the right thing. To those that think OP was wrong...you do know this is the Eve Online forums right?
AvaAlt	Posted - 2009.10.05 21:08:00 - [45] The guy tried to rip you off for 500m, after making the choice to agress you in the first place. The loss is on his head, imo. If he had paid the 500m in the first place, and you then blew him up, would be a far different scenario. He learned stupidity is painful. All the people whining that ninja salvaging should be "flaggable" would do well to read this tbh.
Xaunt Rauber Minmatar The Undead Righteous Knights	Posted - 2009.10.05 21:27:00 - [46] You offered him the chance to buy his way out. He tried to scam you. You killed him. He made his mistake, and tried to make up for it. I'd say you'd have worse Karma if you'd not killed him after he paid the full ransom. Fool's like this need to learn to either pay ransoms or take there licks. Not try to scam there way out of it, after they've ******ly shot a ninja salvager as well. Poor fella was only trying to clean up after them.
guska Cryotank Gallente ZCMI	Posted - 2009.10.05 21:32:00 - [47] I had a thought, and correct me if I'm being a nub, but surely the Tengu pilot SHOULD have had more sense than to let his mate try something that stupid. I mean after all, he does have a fair bit more to lose than the Golem pilot, in terms of ISK value and SP. Possibly could have ransomed the Tengu seperately for a lot more than 500.5mil, or used the 500mil as the ransom for the Tengu. God damn how many times did I write Tengu in there? Tengu Tengu Tengu Tengu Tengu Tengu
Gilad Ayn Gallente Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.10.05 22:16:00 - [48] Originally by: Alty McAltyalt Honoring a ransom is only more profitable than not honoring a ransom if you expect some return business. People like this won't ever agress a ninja again, so you might as well ransom and kill him anyway. Sure, it might make it harder for other people to ransom him somewhere else in the future. But you'll never see the dude again, so what do you care? Tragedy of the Commons, really.
Logit Probit	Posted - 2009.10.05 23:12:00 - [49] Originally by: Alty McAltyalt Honoring a ransom is only more profitable than not honoring a ransom if you expect some return business. People like this won't ever agress a ninja again, so you might as well ransom and kill him anyway. Sure, it might make it harder for other people to ransom him somewhere else in the future. But you'll never see the dude again, so what do you care? Favorite response, so far. Well thought out, and to the point. Plus, toon portrait is F'ing Brutor. Hats off to you sir!

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