Seems we should buy on the announcement, sell on deployment.

Edit: First!

I fully support suicide ganking being possible and common, but I think Hulks need a bit of a tank buff. They're just huge targets with nary the ability to move, and aside from not mining or not fitting mining lasers, it's nearly impossible for them to avoid getting ganked. Seems a bit silly that 3 Thrashers (total value ~30mil) can easily gank something that costs 180mil+.

This just proves how wrong the doomsayers really are. They predicted that such events would cause the market to go out of control, but as the graphs show (thank you, CCP Recurve), the market simply finds a "new equilibrium". Another example of "the invisible hand" theory at work as characterized by Adam Smith when he authored the book "Wealth of Nations".

Can anyone say, Unified Inventory sucks and miners are only slowly starting to get any work done again?

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/62806/1/Mined_Volume_-_2.png

Yeah, hulkageddon didn't slow the drop of mineral prices...the Inventory system did it....that is really sad, your broken system did more dmg than the GOONS!!!!

lol @ lowsec mining stats

lol @ lowsec mining stats

When some people notice a fire, their instinctive reaction is to reach for a bucket of fuel. Many of those people play EVE.

and most of them are Goons

Just hope we're not going to run into full-on stagflation.

Why would that be a bad thing for Eve? Please answer taking into account that this is a pretend spaceship game, and unlike in the real world, nobody goes hungry or loses their job when it occurs.

apart from people at ccp loose their job

apart from people at ccp loose their job

because cancelled subs don't usually return

recruiting new subs to a game, with a well documented history of misconduct by the people who make it as well as indifferent attitude to the displeasure their ineptness cause isn't as easy as u imagine.

think

incursion nerf
walking in stations
unified inventory
etc, etc...

not to mention its northern hemisphere summertime and competion from other games

just wait till you can hear the sound of all the neut RR alts being biomassed cos of upcoming crimewatch changes

they may try to tell you that its all fixed in 2-3 months but chances are its 2-3 years before they even realized what happened, let alone figure out any way to "fix" it and implement fix

As the dev blog quite clearly shows, we've been experiencinng a period of high inflation, driven primarily by the removal of drone alloys, a major source of minerals.

Bring back the QEN! What ya scared of?
Also shouldn' graph #3 included the amount of ore processed from alloyes so we get a better picture of the amount of ore in the system?

The danger is that we may hit a point where the tedium of the grind exceeds the rewards.

And ISK-making in EVE is actrociously boring; EVE is perhaps the only game where players regularly watch movies or do other things during PvE. At that point player activity may decline. For a game like EVE, where players generate most of the game content, a decline in player activity is very dangerous, for obviious reasons.

... Only the income of miners and Technetium moon holders has increased, and mining has its own problems, which I will not discuss here.

So nominal prices have increased across the board while nominal individual income has remained static or has gone down. Real player income has gone down, aside from a few special cases. In more simple terms, if it took an hour of anomaly running to buy a Drake this time last year, it now might take two hours, so it takes more grinding to get the reward (whether it is PvP or a new shiny module or what have you).

I am not saying that we are at that point. CCP is watching the game economy, and they should have all the tools necessary to nudge the EVE economy if necessary. We know that the game needs more ISK sinks, but it also probably needs more sources of moon goo and of basic minerals.

Alice provides some excellent, well-reasoned thoughts. I think it compliments my earlier post.




Yes, yes, and a thousand times, yes. And, what happens when players don't want to grind? They buy PLEX. .

After reading the blog, I have one question -

Where is the fun factor in the game?

On the other hand, the easier it is to make money the less rewarding it becomes to do so. If everyone is stupendously rich and has a deadspace tengu and a supercap alt, where's the excitement and sense of achievement in joining that not-so-exclusive club yourself?

Or they unsub which I'm planning on doing this week.
TBH I liked the Incursion grinding pre-Escalation because of the communities but post-Escalation the DEVs just made it way too tedious and DESTROYED whole communities! I bet with the meta-0 NERF the tedious factor of missions has gone way up too. The tedious factor of mining of course is unchanged.



It was NERFed out of the game by DEV's for me.

Follow the PLEX.

What the Eve economy comes down to is simply this: the null-sec players making boatloads of ISK, which they cash in for PLEX to play for free. Meanwhile, the newbies have to grind away, get bored, and buy PLEX to sell for ISK.

The null-sec players are diehard Eve players here to stay. And why not? They play for free. CCP counts on new customer turnover to constantly refresh the supply of PLEX to the null-sec player base.

Dust 514 will be the saving grace for CCP, which has exhausted its supply of new players willing to forkover money for PLEX. Endless fodder of young kiddies needing new shinies to fight, after getting griefed by the Goons.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll continue to grind, never having bought a PLEX ever on principal.

Or, get wise, like the rest, and quit.

Am I really reading these responses correctly?

People have been saying for years that mining needs a buff to be a valid profession in Eve. The reason is you can run lvl 4 missions in hi-sec or belt rat in 0.0 and bring in more minerals in addition to the bounty paid and the salvage collected. So, drone regions get a change and start paying bounties and mission runners have meta 0 loot removed. These two things, in addition to hulkageddon having some effect on mining, and apparantly the war on botting has reduced the supply of minerals, has made mining a profitable profession and mining appears to be needed more by the player base now....

...and people are complaining because they are getting exactly what they wanted?

Whats next? Someone figures out the isk / hr a hulk pilot is now bringing in? We are going to start hearing, "Nerf hi-sec mining! People can make tons of isk mining in hi-sec with little risk while us poor 0.0 and low-sec people have to run gate camps to get our minerals to market.".

Seems recent posts are trolling to portray me as a whiny carebear.

My original posts were intended to come to understand what CCP is trying to do with the Eve economy, theoretically-- something few understand these days, Alice excluded. And to point out that the alternative to the grind is shelling out real money to CCP for PLEX or take the plunge into low/null sec.

Am I really reading these responses correctly?

People have been saying for years that mining needs a buff to be a valid profession in Eve. The reason is you can run lvl 4 missions in hi-sec or belt rat in 0.0 and bring in more minerals in addition to the bounty paid and the salvage collected. So, drone regions get a change and start paying bounties and mission runners have meta 0 loot removed. These two things, in addition to hulkageddon having some effect on mining, and apparantly the war on botting has reduced the supply of minerals, has made mining a profitable profession and mining appears to be needed more by the player base now....

...and people are complaining because they are getting exactly what they wanted?

Whats next? Someone figures out the isk / hr a hulk pilot is now bringing in? We are going to start hearing, "Nerf hi-sec mining! People can make tons of isk mining in hi-sec with little risk while us poor 0.0 and low-sec people have to run gate camps to get our minerals to market.".

So "take the plunge"?

By your logic, anything devaluing high sec is dismissed as CCP forcing players to purchase plex. Maybe it's not, maybe it's them redressing a risk/reward imbalance that has crept into the game?

You even place claim their anti-botting efforts, something which has been almost universally praised by the community, are secretly motivated by a desire to force players to buy plex? This does not strike me as a logical set of arguments. It sounds to me more like you are angry, presumably at not being able to afford plex, and are attempting to vent your rage at CCP by assigning an ulterior motive to every single action they take.

And that's without even getting into whether or not their actions will in reality increase plex sales.

CCP Recurve is known for keeping a close eye on the economy and how it reflects your various undertakings. Check out his latest price indices blog, complete with sexy graphs!

Now on a different note, the PLEX has been slowly dropping from its high at the graphics card offer. Sort of expected, and does not look too different from typical market variations. But what is odd is the PLEX daily traded volume has been dropping (this is all based on Jita data). That is a little odd. Its been rising steadily since the creation of the PLEX. This is the first real drop in traded volume. Is that an indication of a contracting economy? Or a sustained anti bot and RMT effort?

If CCP management is not thinking about how to raise the subscription numbers and how to maximize revenue from each customer, they better be looking for new management. If you think they just willy-nilly make changes to the ingame economy, you are mistaken. They employ economists for eve.

I agree, the removal of botting is not 100% motivated by their desire to sell PLEX. But when you take all their actions into account, I beg to differ. I think it is a pretty simplistic view if you think they do not understand the effects of all these changes.

I think it is pretty obvious CCP will stop at nothing to sell PLEX. After the Fashion Cluster F*ck (where all they wanted to do was sell clothes and call it content) they were at least smart enough to pay attention to people unsubbing and salvage the situation (by abandoning it) Believe it or not, many companies do not seem to pay attention to their cash cows.

Now they are messing with the economy. They are doing their best to ensure everyone needs to buy PLEX to play this game (in addition to monthly fee). Soon the people who have no interest in the economic side of eve will probably move on, as the price to play will get too high. Until the unsub's increase, we know nothing will be done to easy this inflation.

CCP really really wants have a forced cash shop (PLEX) with a monthly fee. And, this is fine, if the game provides the entertainment value. I am willing to bet, over all, Eve is already one of the highest costing MMO's out there on a per customer basis (not account). Lets say they have 400k accounts, that probably translates to 150k customers (or less) And I bet 20% of those buy at least 1 PLEX or more every month, in addition to month subscription. If the PLEX prices were rising also, I would see less issues, but they seem to be going in opposite direction lately.

They are here to make money. And they have the some of the most loyal fans. Lets hope they don't take us for granted and continue to provide great entertainment value in exchange for our money.

the cost of your ship isn't part of its tank, hope this helps

On the other hand, the easier it is to make money the less rewarding it becomes to do so. If everyone is stupendously rich and has a deadspace tengu and a supercap alt, where's the excitement and sense of achievement in joining that not-so-exclusive club yourself?

Hm, wish I had watched this thread and responded sooner. Anyway, no, you are right. But only technically. In reality, the cost of a ship almost always reflects its ability to tank: Titan costs ~30bil, has millions of EHP. Incursus costs ~300k, has a few thousand EHP. You can most certainly fit those ships in a way which robs them of tank, but if you are TRYING to tank them it's easily done. Even if you TRY to tank a Hulk, it can still be ganked by just a few much cheaper ships.

And no, I'm not a miner.

You're right, the only ones deserving to fly 3billion Tengus, buy super caps and titans+ pilots are Alliance leaders, their fellah directors and corp leaders/directors. The rest of you shouldn't even fly other thing than rifters/drakes to be the previous ones content.

Awesome player driven content for a dog shift sandbox

My cynabal costs ~700m, has a **** tank.

My hurricane costs ~60m, has an epic tank.

Go figure.

Or you could just get better at PvE? I can afford a super just fine and I'm in a 3 man corp.

Considering that cynabal by themselves are around 250mil, it sounds like you have just disclosed to the Eve forums that you fitted the cynabal with close to 450mil worth of mods.

Hmmm, wonder how long it will be before someone runs a locator agent on you....

Im not great at the economics, but I do pattern analysis for a living. It seems the bottom line is people aren't mining. It's just people flooding the market with inventory to take advantage of market prices. It might take monthes for those supplies to dry up, but unless mining increases everything will get more expensive. again. With the isk sinks being impemented, no one is going to be able to afford the expensive ships/mods. people will turn to plexing for isk, at least the serious players , so in the end you are going to have pay to win, which i thought CCP stood firmly against.

too many ppl don't really grasp the concept of PLEX.

It is an item a player sells to another player.
It may be a way to keep content or discontent ppl in the game, thus maintaining a bigger player base. BUT
It is as profitable to ccp as having everyone pay their subscription as usual. Go find out for yourself.

There may be games, mmo's, where companies charge unfairly for content. EVE isn't one of them.

Think outside the box.

Oh, the irony. PLEX is actually marginally more profitable for CCP than a paid subscription.

Not that I agree with the "CCP are forcing us to sell PLEX" tinfoil hattery, but the reason their tinfoil hattery is misguided is a little less simplistic.

Gate camps? JFs... Hell, can even just bridge a regular freighter.

But yeah, the people complaining are the ones who see the Eve economy as a real economy, or they are new to the game and they don't realise there was a time when ships were genuinely valuable. In a game economy cheap and readily available gear is not always a good thing, being able to grind out the money for a drake in an hour in high sec is silly.

I sincerely hope CCP mess with the economy some more.