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60 day - $4 Billion Bond

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Tom Selek	Posted - 2009.10.05 23:52:00 - [1] TL;DR I want to borrow money to continue/expand trading since I just spent all of it on Platinum, Neodymium, Sylramic Fibers, in anticipation of Dominion. Reservations Current available shares: 40 * * * * * Summary Yesterday I invested heavily using all of my cash reserves on several of selected post-patch winners, specifically Platinum, Neodymium, Sylramic Fibers Titanium Carbide, Ferite Carbide and Tungsten Carbide (but having missed the boat on the racial armor plates!) and thus, drained all of my available reserves. IÆd rather not sell my current stocks to buy orders nor start canceling the buy orders I already have out to generate income. So I though I would try you, the secondary market. And how handsome/cute you look today! My plan is basically to continue trading, focusing on patch related information as indicated by patch release notes, changes of Sisi and the test server feedback forum (please no 75% boost for Assault Ships!) and as well as continuing my regular trade activities About Me IÆve updated this characters skills to eve-sheet.com. I use Tom strictly for trade, he is and will remain in a NPC corporation. In addition, I have a hauling alt and a PVP toon. IÆm willing to have my API audited to show all of that but would rather keep it private since I use Tom and the hauler to move equipment for the pvp toon and would rather not have them out-ed to the masses. Bond Details 40 bonds of 100 million ISK are up for sale. There is no maximum number of share and would encourage larger purchases over smaller. If you would like to buy the whole bond out that would make my life simpler. The interest is 7%, which I feel is relatively good but patch profits easily can outstrip that rate by double (in fact several items I bought yesterday have already hit that target) so I should be fine meeting that target. The interest will begin accruing when the bond begins which will be as soon as all shares are bought (preferable before 0:00 10/10). If I do not reach the target of 4 billion ISK, I will reconsider moving forward. I ask that you all hold your ISK until I request it. If you need to send it early for some reason, please contact me. The bond will operate for 60 days from the start and end no later than 09/12. Interest will be paid at 30 day intervals, with the last payment including the principle. Let me know if you have any questions.
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.10.06 00:24:00 - [2] What would you think about offering some collateral? It appears you have a good stock of "Platinum, Neodymium, Sylramic Fibers, in anticipation of Dominion" that could be held by a 3rd party to secure this bond. <Amarr's signature>
Tom Selek	Posted - 2009.10.06 00:35:00 - [3] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 What would you think about offering some collateral? It appears you have a good stock of "Platinum, Neodymium, Sylramic Fibers, in anticipation of Dominion" that could be held by a 3rd party to secure this bond. Hey now, that doesn't sound like a bad idea...that is something to think about. One obvious issue is I have less than 4 billion in those items (this I would like to fix ). Would partial collateral work? If someone is one is willing to do so, please post here. In either case however, let the bond continue as I'd rather not push the start/end date out to far in October/December.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.10.06 02:16:00 - [4] I'd hold collateral for you, for what that's worth. I'm not sure I count as a "trusted third party" for most folks, though.
cosmoray Cosmoray Construction	Posted - 2009.10.06 02:50:00 - [5] Edited by: cosmoray on 06/10/2009 02:51:18 I have been doing 3rd party collateral holding, lockdown and brokering. Over 20B so far. Started expanding recently. I will do it, my fee for just holding product is a one time payment of 20 million. I just put all your stuff in a station container. Has to be in high sec.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.06 08:41:00 - [6] I also perform audits, collateral holding and 3rd party but since Cosmoray made himself available I'll just stick to encouraging you at using his services. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Rose Nuke State War Academy	Posted - 2009.10.06 08:56:00 - [7] Can i reserve 100mil worth please pending audit maybe more depending on the outcome
flakeys Vanguard Frontiers	Posted - 2009.10.06 13:46:00 - [8] Willing to take this fully , send you a mail regarding collateral etc.
Tom Selek	Posted - 2009.10.06 16:08:00 - [9] Originally by: flakeys Willing to take this fully , send you a mail regarding collateral etc. I didn't make it home last night (lucky me) but I'll be checking your offer when I get home. Barring that keep the reservations coming!
Alaki Kant	Posted - 2009.10.06 18:04:00 - [10] I'd like to reserve 4 shares (400m) pending 3rd parting collateral holding

flakeys Vanguard Frontiers	Posted - 2009.10.07 18:08:00 - [11] Retracting offer
Tekota legion industries ltd Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2009.10.07 18:31:00 - [12] Given the above retraction I guess this is open again, unless flakeys wishes to offer any insight as to whether his retraction was due to anything other than personal reasons. With conditions of collateral at 75%+ (and either Cosmo or VV are fine by me) and no adverse new information arising from flakey's withdraw I'll provisionally go in for 5 shares - 500m.
flakeys Vanguard Frontiers	Posted - 2009.10.07 18:51:00 - [13] Originally by: Tekota Given the above retraction I guess this is open again, unless flakeys wishes to offer any insight as to whether his retraction was due to anything other than personal reasons. With conditions of collateral at 75%+ (and either Cosmo or VV are fine by me) and no adverse new information arising from flakey's withdraw I'll provisionally go in for 5 shares - 500m. The collateral was 30% in his offer to me.There was only mention of mods and not specifically the items stated above wich he allready had purchased according to his own statement. This gives me a few indications and since i allready have 4 loans going without collateral i am not going to dig myself a deeper hole with the information i have here.
trickamonis Intergalactic Shared Services Corp	Posted - 2009.10.07 19:01:00 - [14] Hi, given the above, please count me in for one share. Thanks.
Tom Selek	Posted - 2009.10.07 20:49:00 - [15] Originally by: flakeys The collateral was 30% in his offer to me. There was only mention of mods and not specifically the items stated above which he already had purchased according to his own statement. Sorry if I was unclear in my evemail. I have ~30% collateral available (at Jita prices in the form of mats and one Charon - just purchased last week, wish I had held off on that!). When I mentioned mods, I was indicating I could come up with more collateral but that since it would be in mods spread out all over the universe, it would be difficult to assemble and price them. So 30% collateral is what I can offer. I'm happy to use cosmoray or whomever the investors trust to hold the collateral. Originally by: Tekota With conditions of collateral at 75%+ (and either Cosmo or VV are fine by me) and no adverse new information arising from flakey's withdraw I'll provisionally go in for 5 shares - 500m. As indicated the liquid collateral I can offer is about 30%. I'll put you on the reserve list just in case that might be acceptable, if not I'll remove you. Same to anyone else who has reservations.
Julius Rigel	Posted - 2009.10.07 21:08:00 - [16] I'll reserve a share of this pending that love letter from cosmoray.
narrat Caeli Grimm Trading Company	Posted - 2009.10.08 03:21:00 - [17] I'd like to reserve 1 share (100m), pending confirmation of partial collateral holding. thanks!
Tekota legion industries ltd Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2009.10.08 06:54:00 - [18] Thanks to flakeys & Tom for clearing that up. No, I'm afraid that 30% with a char this new and no further information doesn't quite hit my personal risk/reward bar at this time. Wish you the best of luck, but as they say, I'm out.
Taram Caldar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.10.08 11:34:00 - [19] Sorry to say but at only 30% backing on a fairly new & unproven member of the community it's just not secure enough for me. Unfortunately I already have as much unsecured/partially secured loans out as I'm willing to carry at this time. Good luck on your offering though. I'll be watching how it goes so that if you offer in future I might be willing to risk on you. PS: CCP sucks and needs to remove this asinine 5min timer. Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Alaki Kant	Posted - 2009.10.09 01:45:00 - [20] Originally by: Taram Caldar Sorry to say but at only 30% backing on a fairly new & unproven member of the community it's just not secure enough for me. Unfortunately I already have as much unsecured/partially secured loans out as I'm willing to carry at this time. Good luck on your offering though. This basically mirrors my sentiments. Sorry, but 30% collateral is really pushing it in this situation. I'll have to withdraw my reservation unless you can provide much higher collateral. (Reducing the number of bonds to increase the collateral coverage would also work.)

narrat Caeli Grimm Trading Company	Posted - 2009.10.09 04:29:00 - [21] I'm not withdrawing my reservation, but Alaki might be on to something with reducing the size of the bond. This would help with collateral coverage, and smaller investment means smaller payouts on your end. a 20 bond cap would mean 60% collateral, and half to motivation for you to take the money and run - a common concern around here, I've noticed.
Taram Caldar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.10.09 12:45:00 - [22] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 09/10/2009 12:45:21 Originally by: narrat Caeli I'm not withdrawing my reservation, but Alaki might be on to something with reducing the size of the bond. This would help with collateral coverage, and smaller investment means smaller payouts on your end. a 20 bond cap would mean 60% collateral, and half to motivation for you to take the money and run - a common concern around here, I've noticed. Aye, at 60% collateral I'd be willing to invest 500 millions. Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.09 12:52:00 - [23] Quote: This gives me a few indications and since i allready have 4 loans going without collateral i am not going to dig myself a deeper hole with the information i have here. Your considerate money management confirms you as one of the very good investors hanging around MD in these days. There are RL traders that don't show the same wisdom. I wish others knew to hold their money as good instead of giving it off first, then regret it later. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Tom Selek	Posted - 2009.10.09 16:37:00 - [24] It looks like this isn't going to happen by the deadline (0:00 10/10). I do appreciate all you feedback, all of your comments have be helpful (and surprisingly lacking in flame). I've considered dropping the bond level to meet the collateral you all indicated would be more acceptable (60-75%) but I think I will probably just end up liquidating orders. Thanks again everyone!
Tsang Chou Tsang Chou Bonds	Posted - 2009.10.09 17:25:00 - [25] I'll take the risk at 30%, if you're willing to keep this open. I'd only invest 200m, but if it'll float your bond, I'm all for it.
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.10.09 17:25:00 - [26] I will make an interesting deal here. 1. The bond goes ahead for the 4B stated 2. The interest rate is reduced to 6% 3. I hold collateral for at least 30% 4. I will insure the 4B bond at 100% value. 5. A full list of investors will be given to me, with any sales of the bonds have to inform me so I can amend my list. 6. My fee, is that any profits over 6%, I take 40% 7. I have the right to ask for an audit via full API key note: I may be interested in doing more of this, with conditions.
Tekota legion industries ltd Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2009.10.09 17:37:00 - [27] Edited by: Tekota on 09/10/2009 17:43:35 That's an interesting approach Cosmo. Unless I've seriously misunderstood point 4) then it looks like a no brainer for potential investors (6% return 100% backed by yourself?). What I can't understand is (a) why you'd want the hassle of providing a guarantee to investors (why not just take the 4b on yourself) and (b) how you'd confirm the operator's true profits (although that's more a curiosity question than one which would affect potential investors). edit: hmm, hang on, think I've gotten (a) - if it goes wrong you'd be out of pocket 3.7bn whether you took the whole lot or guaranteed it, but if you invite further investors and provide a guarantee you get to maintain your own liquidity while it runs.
flakeys Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.10.09 17:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Tekota Edited by: Tekota on 09/10/2009 17:47:21 Edited by: Tekota on 09/10/2009 17:43:35 That's an interesting approach Cosmo. Unless I've seriously misunderstood point 4) then it looks like a no brainer for potential investors (6% return 100% backed by yourself?). What I can't understand is (a) why you'd want the hassle of providing a guarantee to investors (why not just take the 4b on yourself) and (b) how you'd confirm the operator's true profits (although that's more a curiosity question than one which would affect potential investors). edit: hmm, hang on, think I've gotten (a) - if it goes wrong you'd be out of pocket 3.7bn whether you took the whole lot or guaranteed it, but if you invite further investors and provide a guarantee you get to maintain your own liquidity while it runs. edit 2: 3.7bn isn't right, some part of my brain (the part that ends up costing me a lot of money in mistakes) had equated 30% collateral to 300m. It is a wise step in some extend: He get's a lot more interest back and he does not have the need to put any isk up for it UNLESS it goes wrong.In wich case he offcourse has the highest risk hence why the better return of interest. Question is now not if this will attract investors but will the OP mind sharing more of his profits so that he can launch this deal OR find it not worth going through with it because his margin because so low he might as well liquidate that 30% guarantee and go on from there. An interesting twist there and a fresh approach on securing investments cosmoray.
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.10.09 19:10:00 - [29] Edited by: cosmoray on 09/10/2009 19:13:19 Originally by: Tekota Edited by: Tekota on 09/10/2009 17:47:21 Edited by: Tekota on 09/10/2009 17:43:35 That's an interesting approach Cosmo. Unless I've seriously misunderstood point 4) then it looks like a no brainer for potential investors (6% return 100% backed by yourself?). What I can't understand is (a) why you'd want the hassle of providing a guarantee to investors (why not just take the 4b on yourself) and (b) how you'd confirm the operator's true profits (although that's more a curiosity question than one which would affect potential investors). edit: hmm, hang on, think I've gotten (a) - if it goes wrong you'd be out of pocket 3.7bn whether you took the whole lot or guaranteed it, but if you invite further investors and provide a guarantee you get to maintain your own liquidity while it runs. edit 2: 3.7bn isn't right, some part of my brain (the part that ends up costing me a lot of money in mistakes) had equated 30% collateral to 300m. To answer your questions: 1. If I have 30% collateral I would be out of pocket 2.7B 2. I won't buy the 4B as I have all my money dumped in the market speculating on the patch and other investments 3. This way I invest nothing on the fact that a player won't scam, and potentially make a free return. Kind of like Lloyds of London. I put up NO money, collect profits but have unlimited liabilty if things go wrong. I am trying to find new ways to make investments, and I am certainly interested in any ideas people have. On a final note, I have the funds that if anyone scammed me I will pay to have that person put on 'Kill On Sight' by mercs regardless of wardec mechanics for an unlimited amount of time.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.09 19:28:00 - [30] Originally by: cosmoray To answer your questions: 1. If I have 30% collateral I would be out of pocket 2.7B 2. I won't buy the 4B as I have all my money dumped in the market speculating on the patch and other investments 3. This way I invest nothing on the fact that a player won't scam, and potentially make a free return. Kind of like Lloyds of London. I put up NO money, collect profits but have unlimited liabilty if things go wrong. I am trying to find new ways to make investments, and I am certainly interested in any ideas people have. On a final note, I have the funds that if anyone scammed me I will pay to have that person put on 'Kill On Sight' by mercs regardless of wardec mechanics for an unlimited amount of time. Evesurance.



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