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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.06 17:33:00 -
[1]
The only carebear arguement which annoys me is the one where they try to claim that PvE is a seperate playstyle, rather than just a bunch of activities played out on a PvP stage.
Eve is PvP. Anything which excludes competitive interaction is bad. (That doesn't mean killing people in the face ... well, not exclusively)
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.06 19:18:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Avon on 06/10/2009 19:21:27 Agreeing with Matthew is a rare pleasure.
I would add that some game design changes probably did upset the way ISK flows, increasing the seperation between "PvP" and "PvE", notably the availablity of rare ore (even in limited volumes) outside of 0.0
The fact that some resources were available only in the "PvP zone" created a requirement for interaction. "Carebears" had the safe ISK printing, "PvP'ers" had something they wanted/needed.
To some extent this balance was attempted again with moon mining and its requirement in T2 production, however this was not well thought out. Mining had far greater availability, and the chance of "ninja mining" for great profit. Moons, alas, require POS - and so not only is there reduced resource availability, but also restricted methods of aquisition. Whilst it was great for the alliances with access to good moons it was not in itself good game design.
I agree that Dominion provides some hope for rebalancing the "carebear" "PvP'er" interaction, but I also think more needs to be done to recreate the symbiotic relationship that used to exist between 0.0 and Empire.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.07 00:45:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Dictum Factum After reading the original post, along with several of the poster's replies, I walked out to my garage. Once there I wrote "Rells" on every tool that I own.
Did you write it backwards so you can read it in the mirror?
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.07 12:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: PostWithYourAlt It is rather funny how on one side whenever we discuss the removal of the insurance system all PVP players state it will ruin PVP because of how it will make their ships even more expensive and how small alliances will suffer from it, -
Not really. I would certainly support the total removal of insurance from Eve, and have called for it before. There is no point to PvP if there is no loss, and insurance greatly mitigates such losses.
Actually, that might be a good way to tie up with CCP's push to get players out of NPC corps. Remove personal insurance and allow only corp insurance of ships. I would rather it was gone completely though.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.07 12:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Heroldyn
with the absence of carebear-'activities' ship prices would just explode.
This would be a good thing. Ships should be more expensive, or ISK less easily available.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.07 12:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Heroldyn
Originally by: Tippia
besides all your twiddling around, my point still stands:
Quote:
the more people do less pve and more pvp, the higher the prices of 'stuff' becomes.
Which means PvP losses are more meaningful and the remaining producers make more profit. Would you care to point out why you think this wouldn't be a desireable situation?
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.07 22:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: BeyondRelief
so then as I said lets change all mission bounty to loot that automaticly appears in your hanger. This way bountys dont create ISK anymore but only wealth and all you elite pvp people are happy ?!.
And then what do you do with all that loot? Sell it? Wouldn't that require people to have ISK to buy it?
Do you see the difference between generating ISK and generating wealth yet?
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:21:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Avon on 08/10/2009 11:21:57
Originally by: Ban Doga
Do those people suggest that carebears have some sort of means to force a game developer to actually introduce certain changes? ... As for the "The carebear will want to reduce game functionality": removing protection (highsec / CONCORD / Security Status / ...) is is just that; it's removing functionality.
It was okay to add certain listed functionality to the game, but removing it again would be wrong? How so? Because it favours your playstyle?
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.08 19:36:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zartanic
No, because it forces your playstlye on others. There are areas for PVP and no one suggests removing them. Also there is PVP in hi sec, plenty of it. Some PVP players seem extremely selfish when they post. Not all but its clear many cannot handle a mindset different from them or the fact people play for numerous reasons. There is no 'us' and 'them' that some like to pretend exists. That's why you will never be satisfied because what you want is impossible and even trying to attain it would be financial suicide for CCP and make the game as exciting and involved as Hello Kitty Online.
You missed my point. Concord was added to Eve after release. People who say it shouldn't be removed are doing so because it suits them to have that added functionality.
When I started Eve I was in a corp called Independent Manufacturers (great bunch). They did mining and ship building and stuff, I ran defence (along with a few other "pvp" types). I wouldn't think of any of those guys as being carebears back then - we worked together, played to our strengths, and got the job done. No-one sat around wishing that an NPC uberforce would come and help them. I have never lumped industialists together with carebears.
Eve was, for all its faults, a better game then. Players knew that Eve was hostile and that success came from cooperation. All "carebear" activities took place in a hostile enviroment, and that in itself provided much of the fun and made it all more rewarding.
People who call for the game mechanics to protect them and insulate them from that hostile enviroment are the people I think of carebears, and as such I agree with Rells, Eve would be better off without them.
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