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Skippermonkey
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Posted - 2009.10.13 12:31:00 -
[31]
Should have local chat, but only show up for like 5 mins after typing or something.
Or maybe automated message from ships computer whenever a stargate shows activity, and no local?
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MirrorGod
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2009.10.13 13:25:00 -
[32]
Edited by: MirrorGod on 13/10/2009 13:29:31 Delayed local isn't even necessary; when a 70 man blob jumps in, locals should know about it, immediately. What needs to be delayed is small gangs and solo pilots. I'd like to see the following mechanic.
1 pilot jumps in - doesn't appear for 90 seconds 2 pilots jump in - doesn't appear for 60 seconds 5 pilots jump in - doesn't appear for 30 seconds 10+ jump in - appears immediately
Talking in local or aggressing anythings from NPC's to other players would then give up your "local cloak" up.
This would, in affect, give small gangs, scouts, and solo pilots a fighting chance. I feel this would be especially nice now that nano's are dead, and a nice nerf to macros too.
Additionally, if there's a 70 man gang on the other side of the gate, maybe half these timers, or even nullify it. If those same 70 are in space in the next system, axe it less. Really push scouts to keep tackle on targets if they want stealth.
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Vidi Angelus
Caldari Axis and Alloys Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.10.13 14:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: MirrorGod Edited by: MirrorGod on 13/10/2009 13:29:31 Delayed local isn't even necessary; when a 70 man blob jumps in, locals should know about it, immediately. What needs to be delayed is small gangs and solo pilots. I'd like to see the following mechanic.
1 pilot jumps in - doesn't appear for 90 seconds 2 pilots jump in - doesn't appear for 60 seconds 5 pilots jump in - doesn't appear for 30 seconds 10+ jump in - appears immediately
Talking in local or aggressing anythings from NPC's to other players would then give up your "local cloak" up.
This would, in affect, give small gangs, scouts, and solo pilots a fighting chance. I feel this would be especially nice now that nano's are dead, and a nice nerf to macros too.
Additionally, if there's a 70 man gang on the other side of the gate, maybe half these timers, or even nullify it. If those same 70 are in space in the next system, axe it less. Really push scouts to keep tackle on targets if they want stealth.
Why?
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Stupid McStupidson
Gallente Hoek Lyne and Sinker
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Posted - 2009.10.13 15:40:00 -
[34]
I'm glad you were brave enough to broach this topic. It's about time the silence was broken! We now look to you to have the courage to bring up some other forbidden topics, like maybe ninja salvaging and AFK cloakers. |
Vidi Angelus
Caldari Axis and Alloys Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.10.13 16:41:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Stupid McStupidson I'm glad you were brave enough to broach this topic. It's about time the silence was broken! We now look to you to have the courage to bring up some other forbidden topics, like maybe ninja salvaging and AFK cloakers.
I like to think this comment is dripping with sarcasm.
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Uncle Maxx
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Posted - 2009.10.13 19:49:00 -
[36]
In the upcoming changes the Local channel should be based on standings. The sov holder can set the threshold where Local works at all. So if you are a -5 alliance coming into their system, you never get local, yet their +5 allies get immediate updates. So not only do you see the bad guys coming, they don't even know you are there.
Systems with no sov, no local.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.10.13 20:34:00 -
[37]
Everyone overcomplicates this.
0.0 Local should work just like wormhole space Local - in Recent Speakers mode. It works, it's great, it benefits the smart pilots on both the offensive and defending sides equally. It nerfs lazy pilots on both sides equally. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Zephyr B
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Posted - 2009.10.14 03:34:00 -
[38]
Here is my two cents, when CCP update the game using the new sov system. When you upgrading your system, you should have the option that your corp/alliance can see the enemy and denying them the use of the local unless someone uses it.
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Markus Banguel
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Posted - 2009.10.14 04:23:00 -
[39]
Here is my two cents, when CCP update the game using the new sov system. When you upgrading your system, you should have the option that your corp/alliance can see the enemy and denying them the use of the local unless someone uses it.
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Xerra Yeltrox
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Posted - 2009.10.14 08:13:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Uncle Maxx In the upcoming changes the Local channel should be based on standings. The sov holder can set the threshold where Local works at all. So if you are a -5 alliance coming into their system, you never get local, yet their +5 allies get immediate updates. So not only do you see the bad guys coming, they don't even know you are there.
Systems with no sov, no local.
Yeah right, and make the bloody alliance carebears even more safe in their little blue sea bunkers...
Local doesnt just protect lone nullsec ratters, it foremost protects those lazy alliance carebears...those are the ones I'd be going after once nullsec local drops (if ever).
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Tanja Cyprus
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Posted - 2009.10.14 09:28:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Tanja Cyprus on 14/10/2009 09:29:32 Yes, please remove local altogether. Please also autoincrease every characters wallet by 200mil a day, so they can still make money in 0.0 somehow and you still have someone to shoot at all.
Seriously people, take a look at killboards, killing does happen quite frequently, and if you can't do it with an existing local, you might as well go play wow. Removing possible income, and no local will absolutely kill any income, be it ratting or mining in low sec/no sec. It will also lead to total abandoning of that space by everyone, even the non carebears.
If you want to change anything, seriously up bounties/missionrewards/miningrewards (more in low/nosec than in highsec ofc) so people have more time for pvp and need less money. At least that will result in more pvp happening.
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.14 09:47:00 -
[42]
I'd prefer to see local go today instead of tomorrow.
Yes, I heavily use local myself, it sure makes space a lot less scary and predictable. However, I like my space scary and unpredictable. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
IIIAsharakIII
BlackListed Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.14 21:16:00 -
[43]
Edited by: IIIAsharakIII on 14/10/2009 21:27:28
Originally by: Tanja Cyprus Edited by: Tanja Cyprus on 14/10/2009 09:29:32 Yes, please remove local altogether. Please also autoincrease every characters wallet by 200mil a day, so they can still make money in 0.0 somehow and you still have someone to shoot at all.
Seriously people, take a look at killboards, killing does happen quite frequently, and if you can't do it with an existing local, you might as well go play wow. Removing possible income, and no local will absolutely kill any income, be it ratting or mining in low sec/no sec. It will also lead to total abandoning of that space by everyone, even the non carebears.
If you want to change anything, seriously up bounties/missionrewards/miningrewards (more in low/nosec than in highsec ofc) so people have more time for pvp and need less money. At least that will result in more pvp happening.
This. If anyone ever asked why you never see more carebears out in the fringe, this is the answer. Any pilot who is in 0.0 based on aspirations rooted in greed will not be willing to die for your lols. Remove that factor and you just might find more of them happy to undock in no-local 0.0 space and die for you lols.
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Kell Braugh
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.10.15 04:36:00 -
[44]
Quote: Also lots of ppl who's main is in null sec have at least 1 alt grinding missions so say wat you want but that makes null sec residents CAREBEARS too
Nope Haven't done a mission in high sec for almost 2 years, and that was just for standings...
Problem is that local makes 0.0 safer than high sec. In high sec, there can be possibly hundreds of people in local, making a new jump in hard to spot. In 0.0, you usually have one persona in local, you. Someone jumps in, its bells and whistles...
- In essence, any combat related activity involving damage has been 'speed nerfed' to just take 6 times longer with a predetermined outcome coined balance by CCP. |
Swearte Widfarend
Gallente Aurora Security Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.10.15 16:55:00 -
[45]
I've thought about local/delayed local/w-space local for a long time, and I love getting hate mail about it. I don't think Local changes should be limited to 0.0 though (and I'm not a pirate).
Local count should be live in all k-space systems. In other words you can see the number of ships in system but you don't know anything else without a scanner or probe.
Local ID should exist in station systems - based on the concept that the stargate(s) transmit data to the station(s), and ships/pilots have signature/transponder beacons that would identify them, and the stations would have an uplink to translate that beacon to a particular pilot or ship.
Local Chat should always be available, but immediately broadcast your ID if you are stupid enough to talk.
I do like the idea someone mentioned, about non-NPC 0.0 space being able to control local more. I'd give them control of the Local ID flags. Of course that works both ways - if they disable Local ID for their system stations it's disabled for all players, not just visitors. Alliace/Corp/Intel channels exist for a reason, after all.
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.10.15 17:00:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kell Braugh In high sec, there can be possibly hundreds of people in local, making a new jump in hard to spot. In 0.0, you usually have one persona in local, you. Someone jumps in, its bells and whistles...
Dominion sov changes are intended to increase pilot density within alliance held space. CCP has stated that they want to see large numbers (1oo+) in 0.0 sov space. In this situation it would make sov systems even more crowded then most high sec systems. At that point your argument fails. It will be harder to see new pilots coming in after Dominion.
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Xerra Yeltrox
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Posted - 2009.10.15 17:49:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kell Braugh
Dominion sov changes are intended to increase pilot density within alliance held space. CCP has stated that they want to see large numbers (1oo+) in 0.0 sov space. In this situation it would make sov systems even more crowded then most high sec systems. At that point your argument fails. It will be harder to see new pilots coming in after Dominion.
How hard can it be to pick that 1 red/neutral from the list?
Nullsec should have no local, period.
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Drakarian
HackCheck
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Posted - 2009.10.15 19:49:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Drakarian on 15/10/2009 19:49:37 0.0 shouldn't have local.
It seems like the people who want to keep local are people who don't want to PVP...but still want all the rewards that 0.0 offers. They want Reward without any Risk, doesn't seem very eve-ish to me.
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Shootmenot dammit
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Posted - 2009.10.16 16:34:00 -
[49]
With no local, 0.0 will be even emptier.
Local is perfectly fine the way it is.
Stop whining for changes in the game mechanics, as you tell carebears who want Concordokken-related insurances removed, etc.
If you want more kills, work harder.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.10.16 17:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Shootmenot dammit With no local, 0.0 will be even more fun.
Local is an overpowered, omnisicent intelligence tool the way it is.
Fixed. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
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Precisionist
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Posted - 2009.10.16 17:15:00 -
[51]
I like the idea of 1 pilot going in, takes 60-90 secs to be detected,
2 pilots 45-60 secs
3 pilots 30-45 secs
4 15-30 secs
5 0-15
anything more = instant,
So this will basically help a lot due to the 0.0 macro botters, who has a detection of local increase and will automatically goto a SS and log or activate a cloaking device.
Sorry but either get rid of the afk macro'ers in 0.0 or change the system of local IMO.
Plus 1 person, he could be detected in 60 secs, or he could be detected in 90 secs, random somewhat, so it would be luck factor plus scanning skills.
But when the SOV happens, maybe have an option to upgrade that system, so it will be shorter to see local, or instant see local depending on the upgrades, it will add more upgrades, thus more to strive for, = better game.
Who wants radar in a sandbox game, that is basically what local is in null sec and most low sec.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.10.16 17:36:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Precisionist I like the idea of 1 pilot going in, takes 60-90 secs to be detected,
2 pilots 45-60 secs
3 pilots 30-45 secs
4 15-30 secs
5 0-15
anything more = instant,
That gives all of the advantage to the roamer / hunter. There's more than just macro's out there in the belts, there are legit (non-macro) ratters and miners.
Setting Local to Recent Speakers mode benefits and nerfs the hunters and the hunted equally - it's a better solution than the delay which boosts only one side. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2009.10.16 18:05:00 -
[53]
I suppose one idea would be to remove local and make a system upgrades that activates a communication beacon. Either a seperate one that only gives local, or it could be an integrated function in some of the other upgrades.
However I dont think removing local would really be a boost to pvp. Only a boost to ganking of ratters really. And when they've given up there wont be more ganking of ratters than there is today.
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Precisionist
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Posted - 2009.10.16 20:33:00 -
[54]
Called risk vs reward, pretty much what EVE was suppose to be about.
but not since High sec can make more money then most of all low sec, it is quite stupid to even go below high sec, just have 2 alts doing L4's and you make 200 mill an hour.
Quite stupid, I think they just decrease Isk making by 25% in high sec, Increase 25% in low sec, Increase 50% in null, and then add in the local appearance times, you will see people taking more chances for this right isk,
and hey if you do not like danger, and are too lazy to check your scanner once ever 10 secs(or have an alt at the gate) then you deserve to make less isk.
Right now we got carebears getting richer, while real pvp'ers getting poorer, due to the fact it is in carebear mode atm.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.17 08:31:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Soarer425
Originally by: xxxak It's a ****ing game.
Removing local would create a HUGE number of problems that would have to be addressed. As it is, the risk vs reward of 0.0 is pretty low compared to having a mission running Alt in high sec.
At the very least removing local would require a HUGE buff to the ship scanner, as well as other intel related systems (probes, tactical map etc).
I would support it, but only if it was replaced with other "radar" technologies/skills/modules etc.
Why would you need this? WH space already works like that and it is great. It is not hard to scan out a ship. In fact, if you go in a WH, throw your combat probes so they cover anything, and even look for a ship hit that's all the warning you should need. Directional scanner works fine if you know how to use it. What problems would it create? I support this in 0.0 but have local in 0.1 and up.
You forget that bringing a blob in WH space has issues, like bringing larger ships than your targets.
That is why delayed (EVE definition for a chat where you don't appear until you type, BTW) work fine while in 0.0 normal space it require access to a "radar" technology.
Note that it is the Dev opinion too. In one of the many threads about this idea it was clearly stated that they are thinking about removing local but only after they have found a way to implement a scanning option to partially substitute it and that will not kill the server with thousand of queries every second.
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druid 99
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Posted - 2009.10.17 09:28:00 -
[56]
i have lived in wh space for about 4 months now currently on holiday so wont be on eve for anouther week and delayed local work well there directional scanner comes into a world of its own and with the corp im in having a way to make out the difrence betwen our ships and theres its great and covo ops ships arethe kings in wh space they can scan down targets for you with ease especily if there doing anomilys or sites so removeing local can work and is currently working in eve it make it more reallistic im mean come on if in real life ur in a war u dont always knot if there is gong to be a sniper sitting in a house wating for u but if u do a proper look around the area u might or via word of mouth some one screems there a big bad vaga at the gate ye i beleve that they should remove it for a more realistic feel
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Sloan X
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Posted - 2009.10.18 00:13:00 -
[57]
if there is no local, then they should remove all WTZ points and HUD icons in 0.0 also.
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Shootmenot dammit
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Posted - 2009.10.18 10:20:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Originally by: Shootmenot dammit With no local, 0.0 will be even more fun.
Local is an overpowered, omnisicent intelligence tool the way it is.
Fixed.
Stop whining. If you want more kills, work for them.
I know it sounds quite good to be able to enter a 0.0 system with your roaming gangs and miners/ratters not being able to see you coming, but honestly, that's a game mechanics that have been implemented from the beginning (IIRC).
If you don't like it, there are quite a lot of other games where you will be able to shoot countless people per minute.
There are also several other game mechanics I don't like (suicidal gankers absurdly receiving insurance compensations, for instance) and that we have to live with.
Local is fine. If you find your killboard lacking for some reason, change your tactics.
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Darius Brinn
Gallente Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate
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Posted - 2009.10.18 10:27:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Darius Brinn on 18/10/2009 10:27:52
Originally by: Precisionist and hey if you do not like danger, and are too lazy to check your scanner once ever 10 secs(or have an alt at the gate) then you deserve to make less isk.
When you are ratting in a battleship, even checking your scanner every three seconds (like I do in WH space) will not save you. Even if you see them coming from the very first instant, most things can tackle you before you align and warp.
Why stop at that? Remove players from the Overview completely. Remove players from the directional scan. Make cloaked ships not scannable.
You want your roaming gangs/ganking ships to come unnoticed. Also, you demand mission running and all High Security activities to have decreased profits, to force more people into 0.0 and, once again, have more targets.
You are no different from whiners who ask for nbertanks in mining barges. All you do is cry for the game mechanics to be changed in order to get you easier/more kills.
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Blake Zacary
Volatile Nature Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.10.18 11:44:00 -
[60]
There are valid arguments for both sides but the whole game would need to be looked at and changed for example take cloaks.Unlike wh where you have to probe people out null sec has static bodies meaning cloaked gangs would become over powered as you would just get loads of recon/sb/cloaky gangs going thru null sec staying cloaked so never showing on probes or scan.This is just one of many aspects of the game that would need to change to make it balanced if local was removed.
In it's current form if local was removed it would either make people move to empire or you would get people just living in dead end constellations and having a scout sit on the gate 23/7 thus making roaming even harder.Not to mention how long it's gonna take people to roam just try and see how many jumps you can go when you have to scan down every ship sig you pick up because you don't know if it's neut or blue after 5 jumps you'd be bored silly.
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