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hauntingappiriton
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Posted - 2009.10.07 00:17:00 -
[1]
So many players keep saying if you can't use t2 you shouldn't be flying it .that's always funny to me cause when you look at best named its the same as t2 but with better fitting pg and cpu. And I know some named are way over priced so t2 makes more sense but a lot of the guns meta 4 are the same price or less then t2. T2 gives you t2 ammo use and in some cases t2 ammo is not better then faction or t1 ie missiles. So why keep arguing about. You shouldn't be flying that if you can t2 it?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.10.07 00:21:00 -
[2]
T2 weapons are (at least) 10% better than best named, because of the specialization skill. It only applies to T2 weapons.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
N Ano
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.07 00:21:00 -
[3]
Look at the skill bonus a t2 gun/missile launcher gets
then come back and edit/delete your post
 Originally by: Blane Xero
SoonÖ. Shortly AfterÖ Iceland Conquers the WorldÖ
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Sun'Tzu Yin
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.07 00:53:00 -
[4]
The t2 specialized weapon bonus is only applicable to t2 ammo; if you are doing pve there is no benefit to spewing expensive t2 ammo (with often dubious bonuses)all over the grid, and thus, there is no reason to bare the higher resource cost of t2 weapons. The OP's intuition is correct for his purpose. T2 is cost effective and really shines in pvp where you are likely to lose the ship eventually anyway.
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hauntingappiriton
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Posted - 2009.10.07 00:58:00 -
[5]
Edited by: hauntingappiriton on 07/10/2009 01:01:56
Yeah you get bonus for spec skill to that gun but its still 100% vviable to use meta 4 if you got sup skills which most people get long b4 they get to t2. Its like telling newer player to go f888 them selves you can't use t2 you can't join our fleet go back to doing missions and I see that a lot when players ask about ther t1 fit for pvp
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Bronnwynn
Minmatar
Cobalt Dragon Exploration Company
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Posted - 2009.10.07 01:00:00 -
[6]
t2 is cheaper, and in virtually everything is better than best named, or equal.
t2
Learn it
love it
live it
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2009.10.07 01:01:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 07/10/2009 01:04:19
Originally by: Sun'Tzu Yin
The t2 specialized weapon bonus is only applicable to t2 ammo
This is completely wrong.
Originally by: HauntingApparition
Yeah you get bonus for spec skill to that gun but its still 100% vviable to use meta 4 if you got sup skills which most people get long b4 they get to t2
Yes, when you can't use T2, you should use Meta 4 (or faction, in some cases). But, if you can use T2, [i]it is inexcusable to use Meta 4). They are not the same.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
Dominatus Atrum Mortis
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Posted - 2009.10.07 01:08:00 -
[8]
t2 turret ammo is really important.
t2 missile launchers are generally significantly cheaper than best named.
I'm a huge advocate of thinking about cost when designing fittings (do you really need that t2 mwd on that T1 hull?) but, the guns are NOT anything to skimp on, especially when you need t2 ammo. T2 gun ammo really, really matters (at least for amarr and minmatar, not 100% sure for gallente.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.10.07 01:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sun'Tzu Yin
The t2 specialized weapon bonus is only applicable to t2 ammo; if you are doing pve there is no benefit to spewing expensive t2 ammo (with often dubious bonuses)all over the grid, and thus, there is no reason to bare the higher resource cost of t2 weapons. The OP's intuition is correct for his purpose. T2 is cost effective and really shines in pvp where you are likely to lose the ship eventually anyway.
Wrong.
--
Bellum Eternus
Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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hauntingappiriton
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Posted - 2009.10.07 01:16:00 -
[10]
Guess that's what t1 frigate or cruiser gangs are for.... but since your worried so much about dps for t2 I gatta ask why evrey one says solo pvp dose not happen even though it dose but still primary is primary a t1 crusier gang is still gonna kill your 150m isk hac sorry
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Kaylee Juuna
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Posted - 2009.10.07 01:19:00 -
[11]
So... T2 guns for PvP, meta 4s for PvE?
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hauntingappiriton
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Posted - 2009.10.07 01:22:00 -
[12]
Also come to think of it best named faction ammo good dps. Makes a marky in those spec skills a little fly free and kill sh*8
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Drixil
Minmatar
The After LIfe
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Posted - 2009.10.07 01:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: hauntingappiriton
Guess that's what t1 frigate or cruiser gangs are for.... but since your worried so much about dps for t2 I gatta ask why evrey one says solo pvp dose not happen even though it dose but still primary is primary a t1 crusier gang is still gonna kill your 150m isk hac sorry
And a gang of t1 cruiser hulls fitted with t2 weapons would kill that 150 million isk HAC even faster 
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hauntingappiriton
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Posted - 2009.10.07 01:27:00 -
[14]
Meta 4 for pve pvp t2 for pve pvp. Faster you get out there and pvp and lose some ships the better you are when you can. Use t2 point is evrey one stop telling noobs not to go pvp in a t1 ship with t1 guns t2 for any t2 hull. Other wise let them learn and quit trying to control other players cause you get controlled in rl
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.10.07 02:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kaylee Juuna
So... T2 guns for PvP, meta 4s for PvE?
t2 guns for pvp, t2 guns for pve
You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Kaylee Juuna
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Posted - 2009.10.07 03:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Manu Hermanus
Originally by: Kaylee Juuna
So... T2 guns for PvP, meta 4s for PvE?
t2 guns for pvp, t2 guns for pve
Got it.
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.07 06:50:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Darthewok on 07/10/2009 06:54:31
This question comes up soooo many times the answer should be stickied.
The T2 guns DPS advantage over Best named is
with faction/regular ammo: around 10% (purely from the weapon spec bonus)
with T2 short range ammo: around 11-12% but with much worse tracking so most use faction for short range anyway
with T2 long range ammo: around 50% and much better range
so basically +10% DPS for short range and +50% DPS for sniping
for PVE: +10% DPS is of course very nice but not completely compulsory
for PVP: +50% is a MUST for snipers, +10% for short range applications is a significant advantage that decides who wins a fight
think of T2 guns as having a free non-stacking affected extra damage mod (10% damage) for the short range and like having 3-4 damage mods and 2 tracking computers for long range(!)
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2009.10.07 08:44:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Madmi CEO on 07/10/2009 08:44:36
Originally by: Darthewok
The T2 guns advantage over Best named is
with T2 long range ammo: around +50% DPS and much better range
Not sure where you get the +50% dps figure, but regarding energy turrets it's far too complex to simply put up as a single number. Scorch is perfect for the medium to long range fight, but at short range Multifrequency will work out better. Comparing a Meta 4 T1 Pulse Laser with Microwave Ammo (~ same optimal as Scorch) with a T2 Pulse Laser with Scorch ammo, the Meta 4 T1 laser will yield significantly lower damage. If you compare their damage at 10-15km, then the T2 Pulse Laser would first of all have to switch to MF ammo to even compete, and even then the difference would be +10% at the most.
And don't forget that getting your large turret specialization from level 4 to level 5 is almost a month worth of training. Most people will have it at level 4 giving you an 8% increase in damage mod compared to Meta 4 with the same ammo.
Of course, once you *can* use T2, the only reason to use Meta 4 would be for the decreased cap usage. And that's really not a good reason.
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.07 09:08:00 -
[19]
sorry should specify i meant LR T2 ammo in LR guns (beam/arty/rails).
for SR guns both long and short ammo are around 10% better for T2.
for LR guns at short range T2 guns are about 10% better (with faction used usually) and at long range 50% or even more with T2 long range ammo.
whether a player considers 10% a crucial advantage in PVP speaks volumes about how serious at PVP that player is. any SERIOUS PVPer won't even bother arguing that he/she needs that 10%. that 10% is the difference between victory and defeat, a kill or a miss.
if you don't think 10% is important for PVE thats another matter. all that is at stake is your mission takes slower to complete. no real biggie.
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Axebreaker Jones
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Posted - 2009.10.07 09:09:00 -
[20]
Generally T2 is best by quite a margin, however if you cant use t2 you aren't useless, many people overemphasize every last percentage, however it does mean you shouldn't be winning any 1v1 engagement but you should be able to fly with your friends.
There is places were t2 isn't always the best choice, like if you are severely pg limited, on many stealth bombers meta 4 torp launchers + an xtra bcu is often better, and when i pve in my nightmare i do like my faction tachyons as they use way less cap and do quite nice dmg too, ofc thats not meta4 but still
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.07 09:43:00 -
[21]
yeah, no shame in using best-named and PVPing with friends before getting T2 guns.
you bring the best you got at whatever level of training you have.
however, if the question is whether T2 guns are worth the training for PVP, the answer is clear to any serious PVPer. every point of DPS counts.
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clixor
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Posted - 2009.10.07 09:46:00 -
[22]
The real question should be: why are faction guns only slightly better then meta4?
If you look at Republic fleet 1200's f.i., they only have a slight ROF advantage compared to the meta4's .
And to the purists who say you can only PvP with T2. BS. If you're in a gang every little bit helps and you can still use faction Ammo. Ofcourse in time everybody should go T2 due to the said bonusses.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.10.07 11:52:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Ghoest on 07/10/2009 11:52:34
1 For fitting reasons in PVE often a faction gun is a better choice than a T2. Not always it depends on the ship and situation.
2 T2 realistically gives 8% not 10% more damage. If your are really focused and train it to lvl 5 thats cool but most people dont.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:31:00 -
[24]
just an observation:
the difference is actually 13% because people either*
a) train turret to 4 and use T1 guns
or
b) train turret to 5 (+5%) with spec to 4 (+8%) and use T2
*usually i doubt people train turret to 5 and not train the specs as the specs are not much time over the turret 5.
if 13% is not a significant difference i dunno what is.
let's not even go into the greater impact if overheating is used on the higher damage base.
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Roos Stormshadow
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:50:00 -
[25]
And to be 100% sure: specialization skill bonus applies to T2 weapons even if you use T1 ammo?
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Darthewok
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:56:00 -
[26]
yup
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Amy Tan
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Roos Stormshadow
And to be 100% sure: specialization skill bonus applies to T2 weapons even if you use T1 ammo?
Yes. It's a bonus to the gun, not the ammo.
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Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.10.07 15:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: hauntingappiriton
So many players keep saying if you can't use t2 you shouldn't be flying it
Eve players say a lot of stuff, hardly any of which is true.
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Riedle
Minmatar
Raptus Regalitor
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.07 17:58:00 -
[29]
Originally by: hauntingappiriton
Meta 4 for pve pvp t2 for pve pvp. Faster you get out there and pvp and lose some ships the better you are when you can. Use t2 point is evrey one stop telling noobs not to go pvp in a t1 ship with t1 guns t2 for any t2 hull. Other wise let them learn and quit trying to control other players cause you get controlled in rl
A big glass of Pepsi for you sir
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Sinderblock
Caldari
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.10.07 18:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Darthewok
just an observation:
the difference is actually 13% because people either*
a) train turret to 4 and use T1 guns
or
b) train turret to 5 (+5%) with spec to 4 (+8%) and use T2
*usually i doubt people train turret to 5 and not train the specs as the specs are not much time over the turret 5.
if 13% is not a significant difference i dunno what is.
let's not even go into the greater impact if overheating is used on the higher damage base.
I was going to chime in with this...everyone acts like only the spec skill is making the difference (which theoretically it is) but the real barrier for t2 is the weapon skill to V which makes a huge difference when combined with spec skill. Getting t2 weapons for a ship you are dedicated to is very important. It is one thing to be a newbie with to much stuff to train but completely different when you start getting to BC and BS sized ships and won't set aside the time to train up some your most important skills to V. It kind of sucks but the rewards are great...
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