| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sig Sour
   |
Posted - 2009.10.07 17:27:00 -
[1]
This is a topic that has started to concern me, and I am wondering how the rest of the Eve community feels about it.
Wormhole space is supposed to be dangerous. It is 0.0 secure space. However when you look at it from the perspective of a POS, there is no safer place in this game than a class 1 or class 2 wormhole.
In high sec, a corp can have war declared on them and a blob of battleships could in theory take out a large tower. In low and null sec there are dreadnoughts. In class 1 and 2 wormholes... battle cruisers. Yes that's right, try siege a large pos with a fleet of battle cruisers? I know you are more intelligent than that.
For a second lets pretend you are not more intelligent than that, and lets speculate on what it would actually take to drop one of these pos's in "unprotected" space. From my experience, I have taken out a medium tower with about 20-25 battleships in fleet. I do not know the exacts, but lets say a large is twice that, so in order to take out a pos in the same time you would need 40-50 BS to take one out. Now convert that into battle cruisers - BC on average is about 1/2 - 1/3 the tank and damage of a BS, lets roll with 1/3.
If it is going to take 120-150 people in battle cruisers to reinforce a large tower, and lets say the tower has 2.5 days of stront in it. Well you want to finish what you started right? You could leave a prob in system and cross your fingers that you get a wormhole into that system from a place you can access at the right time, but the only sure shot way of killing that pos is to keep everyone there.
120 people * 2.5 days = 300 days of game time
150 people * 2.5 days = 375 days of game time
Congrats, killing a large tower in a low class w-space system is about the largest investment you can make in this game.
When game design doesn't even follow video game logic, it comes off to me as an exploit. What is your take on it?
|
Kaar
Rionnag Alba
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 17:34:00 -
[2]
really, does anyone care?
---
|
Sun Clausewitz
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 17:36:00 -
[3]
Options and consequences... 2 things EVE has
You have the option of attacking that POS, but you have to face the consequences of your decision.
You also have the option to leave it alone.
Why does this POS bother you? Why do you want to destroy it? If you are doing it fer teh lulz, then you deserve to waste 300 days of game time. if you have a reason, maybe there is another option to accomplish your objective.
Pick Three:
Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 17:37:00 -
[4]
I was under the impression that this was a player vs player game. I apologize if I was under the wrong impression.
|
ddogg
Amarr
HuzzaH
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 17:39:00 -
[5]
I would say the - flipside is that its way harder to fuel a WH space pos, and of course take your booty to empire - so all balances out.
CEO - |
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 17:45:00 -
[6]
That does not balance out for a PvP game. In a PVE game that argument would hold water.
|
Mr. Orange
Gallente
Band of Freelancers
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 17:47:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: ddogg
I would say the - flipside is that its way harder to fuel a WH space pos, and of course take your booty to empire - so all balances out.
Fueling WH POS in a c1-2 is cake if the WH has a static WH to high sec. Takes about 2-3 minutes to find a new WH exit.
Oh and @OP, cry more so CCP makes it an exploit. 
The Pusher Man |
Awesome Possum
Imperium Signal Corps
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 17:51:00 -
[8]
Quote:
From my experience, I have taken out a medium tower with about 20-25 battleships in fleet. I do not know the exacts, but lets say a large is twice that, so in order to take out a pos in the same time you would need 40-50 BS to take one out.
I've taken out a high sec large tower with ~20 BS. Taken out a medium with a hell of a lot less.
But yes, large towers in class 1-2 WH are ridiculous.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 17:54:00 -
[9]
Ouch Awesome Possum, how long did that take?
|
Korizan
Red Mercury Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 17:56:00 -
[10]
Well sometimes bigger is not always better.
Answer - Stealth Bombers
Less mass and can pack a serious punch.
I believe they do more DPS then a BS considering BS could not use short range ammo. (Correct me if I am wrong here)
|
Jason Marshall
Gallente
Hammer Of Light
Aegis Militia
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 17:57:00 -
[11]
Stealth Bombers are GOOOOOOO
|
ArmyOfMe
Black Nova Corp
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 18:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Korizan
Well sometimes bigger is not always better.
Answer - Stealth Bombers
Less mass and can pack a serious punch.
I believe they do more DPS then a BS considering BS could not use short range ammo. (Correct me if I am wrong here)
can u post the setup so i can how u managed to find one that can tank a pos?
|
rofflesausage
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 18:11:00 -
[13]
It's a non-issue for me.
We recently did a bit of WH exploration and the results were a bit disappointing for a few reasons.
1)As soon as we put up a POS, the number of sites that spawned decreased until there is only currently anoms in the system. As soon as you put a POS up and take into account fuel, a WH becomes less profitable.
2)Logistically, while fuelling a POS in a WH isn't hard, it is tedious. 0.0 alliances have logistics in place to deal with this, a small corp can quickly find a few hours of an evening wiped out. More if combat shows up.
On the plus side, I think it helps the POS situation if anything. We had someone else setup camp in 'our' wormhole. While we both couldn't bash each others POS, it lead to several nights of ship killing, smack, and competition for anything the WH had to offer. It actually forced us to concentrate on those things as opposed to boring POS wars.
We are just about to leave the WH however, because of one simple fact: Profitability. In the last 2 days there have been no new site spawns with the POS up. No sites = no profit. I can understand why CCP have done this but one simple fact remains: As a small corp, we can make *vast* amounts of profits chain running L4s or L5s with considerably less risk than a WH. Sure, we miss the PvP aspect which we enjoy, but we all need to make a living 
So in short....A POS up in a WH? It needs fuelling, it doesn't make much profit, it has its own logistics.....There is no issue in my eyes. If people want to stay 'safe' they can just stay in the station. At least with them being in a WH there is a chance to catch any ships out and about
|
Korizan
Red Mercury Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 18:24:00 -
[14]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
can u post the setup so i can how u managed to find one that can tank a pos?
THink out of the box.
Well bombs have what kind of range ? and considering most people tend to group guns.
You are only really concerned about the smalls and maybe the mediums depending on your speed.
Some good coordination and some effort could in theory take out POS defenses with minimal losses.
Then it is only a matter of settling down and with the torpedoes to finish the job.
It might work and this is very rough, and I can think of several more options augment this.
THe point being it is not impossible, you just have to have a plan.
|
XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 18:33:00 -
[15]
what is your obsession with abandoned/random POSs
are they really bothering you that much?
there are plenty of moons up for grabs in w-space and if theres no one there at the time when you find it...ignore it or remove it if you wish
seriously...explain to me how abandoned/inactive POS are negatively affecting you
_____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
|
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 18:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Korizan
THink out of the box.
I promise you Korizan, that if you came across a POS I setup, even without a gunner you wouldn't be able to incap a single module, and you would suffer great losses.
|
JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 19:03:00 -
[17]
Originally by: rofflesausage
It's a non-issue for me.
We recently did a bit of WH exploration and the results were a bit disappointing for a few reasons.
1)As soon as we put up a POS, the number of sites that spawned decreased until there is only currently anoms in the system. As soon as you put a POS up and take into account fuel, a WH becomes less profitable.
2)Logistically, while fuelling a POS in a WH isn't hard, it is tedious. 0.0 alliances have logistics in place to deal with this, a small corp can quickly find a few hours of an evening wiped out. More if combat shows up.
On the plus side, I think it helps the POS situation if anything. We had someone else setup camp in 'our' wormhole. While we both couldn't bash each others POS, it lead to several nights of ship killing, smack, and competition for anything the WH had to offer. It actually forced us to concentrate on those things as opposed to boring POS wars.
We are just about to leave the WH however, because of one simple fact: Profitability. In the last 2 days there have been no new site spawns with the POS up. No sites = no profit. I can understand why CCP have done this but one simple fact remains: As a small corp, we can make *vast* amounts of profits chain running L4s or L5s with considerably less risk than a WH. Sure, we miss the PvP aspect which we enjoy, but we all need to make a living
So in short....A POS up in a WH? It needs fuelling, it doesn't make much profit, it has its own logistics.....There is no issue in my eyes. If people want to stay 'safe' they can just stay in the station. At least with them being in a WH there is a chance to catch any ships out and about
Your whole post is a fail since theres no such a thing as a POS nerfing respawn rates.
Its not about the system your putting the pos its about wormholes.
Now responding to the OP.
C2 wormholes can fit BS so your wrong here.
C1 on the other hand is somehow broken by not allowing BS and allowing poses.
Yes you can set up ninja pos and produce BS en masse in there , its not worth it considering your BS are stuck with no way to get out , reprocess.
And no fuelling poses in w-space are not difficult nor tedious.
|
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 19:42:00 -
[18]
The OP is a tool.
If you really want to to take any POS you can.
But who really cares most the time - if a corp is making WH POS the backbone of its infrastructure then that corp is fairly innocuous.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
|
Chi'kote
Serenity Ascension
G-R-I-E-V-A-N-C-E
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 19:45:00 -
[19]
Well, if you really want to take out a pos, throw up a tower of your own, and build a fleet of battleships, or even dreads, in the system. And there you go, you can own the system as the only people with a standing dread fleet
|
rofflesausage
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 19:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Your whole post is a fail since theres no such a thing as a POS nerfing respawn rates.
Oh how original, another poster who can't construct a sentence without the word "fail" on the Eve forums 
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1042748/page/1
Even the most basic search terms will show plenty up on this.
Google. Eve-Search. Ask in the exploration channels, whatever - but I assure you, after being in WH's for several months now I have little doubt this is the case.
WH exploration with an Orca as a base vs a POS as a base, is worlds apart in terms of spawns.
http://www.ngi-corp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41
Quote:
11. Weather intended or not, Wspaces apparently DO bottom out when you take up residence within them. Five confirmed cases, three with POSs and two without. The Wspaces eventually dwindled to one static wormhole and one exploration spawn. Sites DESPAWN as usual, but simply to not RESPAWN at the "normal" rate.
|
Miss Xerox
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 22:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Your whole post is a fail since theres no such a thing as a POS nerfing respawn rates.
Its not about the system your putting the pos its about wormholes.
Incorrect.
Check resources and you'll discover that 'residing' in a Wormhole (with a POS or just a cloaked Orca/Carrier) cuts down on spawns dramatically.
With an active 10 man corp working a class 1 it is rendered effectively pointless after a couple weeks, a class 2 in a month.
|
rofflesausage
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 22:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Miss Xerox
With an active 10 man corp working a class 1 it is rendered effectively pointless after a couple weeks, a class 2 in a month.
I suspect we have either been unlucky, or the rates have been changed. We are in a Class 3 and in under a week it is worthless.
We're going back to carebear in highsec. More profit.
|
Lance Fighter
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 22:35:00 -
[23]
pro tip - Set up a pos in a wh system that has a static wh to ANOTHER W-SPACE SYSTEM.
Blane Xero > Lance is at -0.9 sec status with a 1 million bounty. LAnce is also amarrian. Thats 3 evil points |
Breaker77
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.10.07 23:05:00 -
[24]
Quote:
11. Wspaces have a low site spawn rate. With even a little bit of player interaction you can rapidly deplete a Wspace of all sites. POS presence or absence has NO effect on respawn rates. They are just really slow naturally.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1060651
Read that then try again.
|
kongking wang
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 00:15:00 -
[25]
first why do people always want the easy life. if you want to take out a pos it shouldn't be a case of oh lets grab a few ships off the market and kill someone. if you desperately want to wipe out that pos in a low class wormhole then you are going to have to work hard to do it.
first set up your own pos and ferry in supplys and people then build a fleet inside and then when you build all those shiney battleshipes etc you can take them out. the mechanics are there.
whs are an even better sandbox than the rest of eve due to the fact you can take your time to reach your goals. if that means taking the time to build a fleet rather than gather 1 then thats what you have to do to get the job done.
besides its only class 1's that have a restriction of bc's and below so all other classes are doable.
|
Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 00:54:00 -
[26]
If you really want to take down a large tower in a WH, you're going to have to blockade it. Move in and live there, kill anyone trying to refuel it, camp them into the tower and kill all the defensive mods. Scan out any WHs and blockade them with bubbles and gank ships. Wardec the corp and kill any refuelers while they're still in known space.
Eventually it'll run out of fuel and you can kill it quickly.
Shooting it's an option but if it's a large tower you're gonna be busy for a while.
Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast |
kongking wang
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 01:18:00 -
[27]
tactics...
this is wh space and as such it has different tactics and the only one to combat your so called exploit is to exploit it yourself. gone are the days of simple just fitting bigger guns or taking more ships. now its a planning game
|
Spei Prodetor
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 01:20:00 -
[28]
Its called a war of attrition... Find the WS to KS points and camp them with larger fleets 23-7 the tower will run out of fuel and go offline at which point you simply enter the WH with your bc and lay waste to everything but the tower thus causing large amounts of dmg.
|
Major Templar
Caldari
KINGS OF EDEN
Sev3rance
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 02:47:00 -
[29]
Stealth Bombers FTW!!!
Yes, 30 Stealth bombers can take down a large POS. Take enough in and nothing can stand up to them. Period.
Major Templar
Senator's Aide
Kings Of Eden
Sev3rance |
Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Remote Soviet Industries
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 03:44:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Miss Xerox
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Your whole post is a fail since theres no such a thing as a POS nerfing respawn rates.
Its not about the system your putting the pos its about wormholes.
Incorrect.
Check resources and you'll discover that 'residing' in a Wormhole (with a POS or just a cloaked Orca/Carrier) cuts down on spawns dramatically.
With an active 10 man corp working a class 1 it is rendered effectively pointless after a couple weeks, a class 2 in a month.
random spawns are random
I've been in W-space for over 6 months now, same system.
There have been dry spells. But POS has no effect. In the past week I have had 4 radars, 3 mags, 4 gravs, 2 ladars and at least a dozen anomalies.
Stop spreading rumors.
|
Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 04:24:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 08/10/2009 04:30:05
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 08/10/2009 04:25:00
Quote:
In the past week I have had 4 radars, 3 mags, 4 gravs, 2 ladars and at least a dozen anomalies.
... and what did you do for the other 5 days of that week? 
Honestly, if I "really" felt the need to take out a large POS in a class one I would cage it with bubbles first and kill anything that attempts to use it or refuel it. Once it runs out of fuel, take it out.
Conversely, you could take out its guns with heavily tanked BC. Once they are down blast it with stealth bombers in perfect safety.
Either way is probably not worth the time though, tbh.
=====
If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
skidoo
Amarr
Armored Core Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 05:57:00 -
[32]
Wow... what an interesting post, and alot of fail statements (from some ppl). Others nailed it, but not completly. I am the CEO of a WH corp. There are some key points everyone is missing and some info that is not accurate at all.
#1. THERE IS NO POS NERF. The sites go on a 3-5 day timer when u warp to them. SOLOUTION: get the site to 100%, put the BM in the can and wait till you are ready to do the site. When you first go into a WH there are tons of sites cause ppl dont farm them, and warp to each site every day (those that are not occupied).
#2. If you love to seige pos's so much in high sec, wtf??
#3. GUYS, give these WH people credit here. They moved into the C2 or w/e before you had the balls to- so dont bash on them cause they got there first.
#4. As stated earlier- a corp can fued over a WH. The #1 reason of moving into a WH is profit. If you are constantly fighting eachother = no profit. Hence even though you have a safe haven at pos.... it sucks u dry eventually (and it is no fun). AND DO NOT FORGET THE FUTURE OF AMBULATION. (havent heard anything about walking in POS'S yet :P)
You are right when you say that you can build a cap fleet and 'claim' a WH system as your own. PLZ WATCH THE FAN FEST VIDEOS ON FUTURE SOV. Organizations currently feel that they have to go out to WH space cause there is no room in 0.0 (and they are right). Once the new sov system comes out, i bet you will see some ppl get out of the WH's, and back out into 0.0 (since it will be available for the taking due to the fact that there wil be no more 'AFK' empires.)
Oh, btw- if they are building CAPS in a WH for protection and spending BILIONS of isk on it.... who is anyone to say that what is being done is not fair? THEY CAN NOT TAKE THOSE SUCKERS OUT ANYWHERE U KNOW lol.
And dont forget to mention that pos's are not freeking fool proof. (heard of corp thieves?) You can imagine what a pos needs to support a corp.... oh yea, you need everything to be available for access to thier members (ships, mods, ect). That means EVERY ship is available to EVERY member. I have a system in place which HIGHLY discourages corp thievery (which i wont go into sice this is not the topic for it).
If CCP is reading this, PLZ do not change WH space POS mechanics.
And i will leave you all with a famous saying, "high risk = high reward."
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 06:22:00 -
[33]
Getting back on topic, you're absolutely right about your key assumptions but I believe you've missed a couple of important factors. Say you have a class 1 or 2 wh with a static highsec exit and you decide to set up a full reactor farm inside it. I'm talking 20+ large POS all reacting market-bought materials for profit. You can load up on defences for the POS and anyone attacking is limited to battlecruisers. You've just set up an impenetrable reactor farm and with daily highsec wormholes big enough for a freighter, hauling isn't a problem at all. I can definitely see why that's a problem.
But what they CAN do is set up their own POS and build dreadnoughts and battleships in-system. That gives you some warning time but it removes the entire battlecruiser bottleneck. They could get around this by placing POS on every moon in a system though. However, one thing you CAN'T do in wormhole space is jump drive past a gatecamp (or in this case a wormholecamp). A corp could feasibly starve your operation out by keeping a camp on your highsec wormhole and unless you bring in a force big enough to take them out, you're screwed. Granted, they have to keep up a small round the clock watch with anchored bubbles for a week or so but in doing so they get to ransom or dismantle a multi-billion-isk operation. This is how large POS operations were destroyed before dreads and co-incidentally it's more like a real siege than a dread siege ever has been.
If you have a significant enough force to back you up, you can also bring them in and successfully defend but this is the same for all POS operatons. But being in a C1/2 does add a layer of defensibility, it's not like a lowsec reactor farm where dreads and bs can appear without warning. You either get warning that they're coming or you wake up one day to find bubbles on your wormhole and people stopping your freighter from getting through. And if you have a lot of fuel and reacting materials, you can turtle up for quite a while. But the more you invest, the more you're risking if someone does pull a siege on you. It's a complex issue but not one I believe is a major problem.
|
Jojo Jackson
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 07:52:00 -
[34]
Spawns have nothing to do with POS or not.
WH space is clustered. So several WH systems are combined to one block and share a fix amount of max posible spawns. When you clean up one system, this encounter will spawn either again in your system or one of the other systems. If now the other, lets say 9 systems of your cluster are not farmed, it might take a long time until this encounter despawn and have a new changs to spawn in your system.
It is easy to handel, just do a step out of your WH into other WHs you can reach from yours ;).
For the POS killing ... it is posible to kill largh tower in WHs. Sure, it take time and you can not brainless "gang" them. But you can do it. While class 2 allow BS even class 1 WHs are no real problem. There are several BC, HAC or T3, which can tank OK and dish out a nice punch (Sacrileg, Drage, all T3 just as excample). And all Logistics are Cruiser class. So you can bring a realy cool suport fleet too. Sure, Amarr BC aren't great as soon as they have to tank as they can't realy tank. But even a passive shield Hurrican maybe with suport can do it without problem.
Plus most WH POSes are realy bad fitted :). Large Beam Batterys aren't great at BC killing as soon as they move.
There is just one question: why the heck do you want to kill this POS?
Just for emo it is good, that you have trouble with killing it.
And for the numbers. You do not need several hundret BS for a large Tower. 20 might be enough, if you do a little more then warp in, sit around and watch the firework ;).
|
Cypherous
Minmatar
Liberty Rogues
Rally Against Evil
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 10:25:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Korizan
.
Well bombs have what kind of range ? and considering most people tend to group guns.
You are only really concerned about the smalls and maybe the mediums depending on your speed.
Except bombs damage is sig based and POS turrets have small sig, trust me from experience when i say bombs are useless against POS :P
|
Some Advisor
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 10:27:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Some Advisor on 08/10/2009 10:34:55
Originally by: skidoo
#3. GUYS, give these WH people credit here. They moved into the C2 or w/e before you had the balls to- so dont bash on them cause they got there first.
i did it since patch for 1 week, then redid it again with proper "expedition" sized fleet, resources, and all the stuff, and ventured trough 2 wormholes until we arrived at our pretty nifty class 4 Wh with a static Class 3 Corridor connector with a nice highsec/lowsec/0.0 or any of those combos daily including some poor sobs who were in that class3 aswell (waves to many poor sobs we killed outside :P and thanks to that "pvp corp" that came from class 5 full in cruiser shít, cerberus, tengus, lokis and all that crap and hurt us plenty :( ) and moved in. we are living there since about month 1 of the patch. iam sure others had the balls aswell ^^
Originally by: skidoo
#4. As stated earlier- a corp can fued over a WH. The #1 reason of moving into a WH is profit. If you are constantly fighting eachother = no profit. Hence even though you have a safe haven at pos.... it sucks u dry eventually (and it is no fun). AND DO NOT FORGET THE FUTURE OF AMBULATION. (havent heard anything about walking in POS'S yet :P)
iam new in that pvp thing indeed, but i adapted and fought more and somehow managed to die less often. i got a ****znitz of covops devices and now even sister expanded launchers and can even sell them off fast enough. iam pretty sure there is some profit in the lots of t2 modules i accumulated and is sitting in the POS for being sold/used for ships (we also find btw. were on our 4th ship bay now :-/ )
Originally by: skidoo
You are right when you say that you can build a cap fleet and 'claim' a WH system as your own.
So? its fun :P i thought its all about having fun and doing crazy shít? :)
Originally by: skidoo
Oh, btw- if they are building CAPS in a WH for protection and spending BILIONS of isk on it.... who is anyone to say that what is being done is not fair? THEY CAN NOT TAKE THOSE SUCKERS OUT ANYWHERE U KNOW lol.
sometimes, just sometimes i get a class6 entry, there might be an way out if iam desperate.
sooner or later we want to move up a level anyway :P and so far i dont want to take the suckers out.
its a nice feeling when someone comes and they get suddenly hotdropped a
dread, carrier, orca for the lulz & loot an have just the "omg wtf" face on it :)
i like it ^^
Originally by: skidoo
And dont forget to mention that pos's are not freeking fool proof. (heard of corp thieves?) You can imagine what a pos needs to support a corp.... oh yea, you need everything to be available for access to thier members (ships, mods, ect). That means EVERY ship is available to EVERY member.
i surely hope so. I trust my Members i have, and we trust each other. no issue here.
Sometimes that nice world of just playing and sharing the fun is still there :P
No crappy things like corpthiefs and such stuff here.
|
Securitas Protector
Stealthfield
Ihatalo Cartel Navy
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 10:31:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Jimer Lins
If you really want to take down a large tower in a WH, you're going to have to blockade it. Move in and live there, kill anyone trying to refuel it, camp them into the tower and kill all the defensive mods. Scan out any WHs and blockade them with bubbles and gank ships. Wardec the corp and kill any refuelers while they're still in known space.
Eventually it'll run out of fuel and you can kill it quickly.
Shooting it's an option but if it's a large tower you're gonna be busy for a while.
This. On a contract, S-F and IHANA deployed to a WH (class 3) and shuttled in 25+ battleships. We blockaded it for a day, reinforced a medium tower (which took FOREVER), killed most of the people in system. Scanned out WH's and blockaded them.
Then they hired Noir.
It took a ridiculous amount of time to RF that POS to.
Proud to be shaych |
Aurora Nyx
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 10:34:00 -
[38]
OP is either troll, or fruitcake.
There are thousands of POS's in high-low-null sec, go blow those up.
Maybe he likes the look of WH POS's because many are run by small corps, with limited PvP capability.
Grow some.
|
David Grogan
Gallente
Final Conflict UK
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 11:39:00 -
[39]
u could try sieging the pos by placing lots n lots of large bubbles from every concievable angle and celestial object and preventing the owner from refueling it ^^ then blow it up when it goes offline...........
or u could be a risk taker and using a fleet of interceptors fly as fast as u can around the pos at large gun activation range and wait til it runs out of ammo then rince & repeat with mediums pos guns (make sure u got a logistics cruiser nearby to rep the intys when required)
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 11:57:00 -
[40]
Originally by: rofflesausage
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Your whole post is a fail since theres no such a thing as a POS nerfing respawn rates.
Oh how original, another poster who can't construct a sentence without the word "fail" on the Eve forums
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1042748/page/1
Even the most basic search terms will show plenty up on this.
Google. Eve-Search. Ask in the exploration channels, whatever - but I assure you, after being in WH's for several months now I have little doubt this is the case.
WH exploration with an Orca as a base vs a POS as a base, is worlds apart in terms of spawns.
http://www.ngi-corp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41
Quote:
11. Weather intended or not, Wspaces apparently DO bottom out when you take up residence within them. Five confirmed cases, three with POSs and two without. The Wspaces eventually dwindled to one static wormhole and one exploration spawn. Sites DESPAWN as usual, but simply to not RESPAWN at the "normal" rate.
You know what.
Stay igonorant while me and my crop taking advantage of the actual facts.
I have advice for you. Do not belive everything you read.
Hint :
Even DEVs confirmed theres no POS nerfing spawn.
|
rofflesausage
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 12:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Hint :
Even DEVs confirmed theres no POS nerfing spawn.
Not that I'm calling you a liar, but do you have a source by any chance?
|
Apple Ginger
Minmatar
United Security Services and Resources
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 12:19:00 -
[42]
Maybe this needs a bit more creative thought applied than sticking with traditional routes.
While it is indeed a challenge to take out a pos in such systems, perhaps you should be considering that the systems aren't so profitable for those farming them and it should be sufficient to disrupt their activities enough so that they leave. Maybe. I havent given this enough thought to be honest.
Ninjas have had some success with SB at least on a small tower.
I'd like to see how long it takes to get 120 bc into a c1/c2 wormhole. It would probably be quicker to ahem, anchor a pos in there and build a couple of dreads, of course you would have to abandon them afterwards.
|
Cadde
Gallente
FireworX
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 12:34:00 -
[43]
WH space site respawn functionality is the same as in any system anywhere in eve. That is, once you clear them out they spawn ELSEWHERE. And they remain ELSEWHERE until someone does them or they time out. That when they spawn somewhere ELSE (not necessarily in your own w-space) until they are done or time out.
The reason they, as you guys who believe you are right about it based on your own experience, disappear when you anchor or use orcas in system is because as soon as one spawn you clean it out. While all the other wormholes that hasn't been visited for a while have plenty of signatures in them waiting to be cleaned out and circulated in the constellation. As was the case when you guys first moved into your pos-less system. No-one had been there and cleaned it out yet.
So, either you stop focusing on a single wormhole system or you wait until every w-space system is claimed and you'll see the signature spawn rates in your own system will rise no matter if you have 10 poses and 200 orcas in that system or not.
---
Killing poses in W-space is easier than it is in known space because it's harder to fuel them. And to kill a large pos doesn't require dreads or a carriers. Just a bunch of battleships or likewise, something that can tank and take down the pos guns. Then it's a matter of TIME.
Also, battleships can jump into Class 1 wormholes. Orcas can sometimes even jump to class 1 wormholes. And even if they can't jump into class 1 from known space at all times. They can get to class 1 wormholes from class 2 w-space when there are wormholes between w-space and w-space.
It is also entirely possible that a class 6 wormhole will spawn in a class 1 w-space.
It's entirely RANDOM. There's just a bigger chance to get a class 1 wh from highsec than it is to get a class 6. I've seen three class 6 wormholes coming from highsec to date.
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
|
andeira
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 18:14:00 -
[44]
Can I suggest setting up a large tower youself and build some dreads inside the wormhole? correct me if wrong but I believe it is possible to build dreads in wormholes. logistical nightmare to get the goods in but it works
|
Comodore John
Gallente
Xennon Industria
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 18:23:00 -
[45]
Step 1: Put up a POS of your own.
Step 2: Put up a X-Large Assembly Array.
Step 3: Build a Dread.
Step 4: Fit dread and go shoot other POS.
Step 5: Find a way to get dread out of WH or SD.
|
Tellenta
Gallente
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 19:04:00 -
[46]
Another one of these "I don't like it so it is an exploit" posts?
Rage on I guess.
|
JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 19:06:00 -
[47]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 08/10/2009 19:05:57
|
skidoo
Amarr
Armored Core Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 19:09:00 -
[48]
Well, i love this topic. And i appologize for such a long post the first time :P. Our corp also resides in a C4. We go from the C4-> C2-> high sec or low sec. And if the C2 is occupied (which it usually is) we send in a buzzard, scan down a fleet- and our t3 fleet will blast the crap out of em. Afterwards we will do the sites in the C2 (what few there are) if the C4 is empty (which it usually isnt).
Point being is this: WH space is a different world. It isnt like 0.0 AFK empires where it is nearly impossible to take over if you are a new allaince (unless u join a powerfull coalition). And it is DEFINATELY impossible to take over if you are one corp. WH wars a few months ago was considered illogical- now it is reality. So WH space isnt some high- nigh fortress for a corp.
Different strokes for different folks. We have 30 ppl in our WH system (which is alot more than most corps). So i can tell you first hand the pains it is to get pos fuel, ship mods, ships, ammo, ect. Not horrible, but it is a pain. #1 reason for us for living in a WH is that the teamwork is increadible. I have played eve for like... forever it seems. And i have done it all: industry, piracy, 0.0, high sec, grieveing- ect.
So this isnt the easiest thing we have done- but is has been the coolest think i have ever done.
|
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 19:52:00 -
[49]
People who setup a pos in w-space are not the ones I am picking a bone with here. It is the carebears who seek the SAFETY of the class 1 systems. The overhead it takes to actually PVP with these folks is outrageous, they are removed from the PVP element of the game, which to me is an exploit. People are using it as an immunity card which is not what Eve is supposed to be about.
|
Mojihito
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:00:00 -
[50]
Originally by: skidoo
Well, i love this topic. And i appologize for such a long post the first time :P. Our corp also resides in a C4. We go from the C4-> C2-> high sec or low sec. And if the C2 is occupied (which it usually is) we send in a buzzard, scan down a fleet- and our t3 fleet will blast the crap out of em. Afterwards we will do the sites in the C2 (what few there are) if the C4 is empty (which it usually isnt).
Point being is this: WH space is a different world. It isnt like 0.0 AFK empires where it is nearly impossible to take over if you are a new allaince (unless u join a powerfull coalition). And it is DEFINATELY impossible to take over if you are one corp. WH wars a few months ago was considered illogical- now it is reality. So WH space isnt some high- nigh fortress for a corp.
Different strokes for different folks. We have 30 ppl in our WH system (which is alot more than most corps). So i can tell you first hand the pains it is to get pos fuel, ship mods, ships, ammo, ect. Not horrible, but it is a pain. #1 reason for us for living in a WH is that the teamwork is increadible. I have played eve for like... forever it seems. And i have done it all: industry, piracy, 0.0, high sec, grieveing- ect.
So this isnt the easiest thing we have done- but is has been the coolest think i have ever done.
Welcome our neighbours . Wonder when you will open up to our system again.
|
necrosia demora
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:06:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sig Sour
People who setup a pos in w-space are not the ones I am picking a bone with here. It is the carebears who seek the SAFETY of the class 1 systems. The overhead it takes to actually PVP with these folks is outrageous, they are removed from the PVP element of the game, which to me is an exploit. People are using it as an immunity card which is not what Eve is supposed to be about.
they are not immune. look at the replys. there are many, many suggestions on how to take out a pos. you just want a fast fix. eve isnt about fast fix's, its about adapting and overcoming. your problem is you want to kill anything with ease, but whs arent about ease they are about challange. if your not willing to accept that challange then you should stay away from whs.
|
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:08:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Sig Sour on 08/10/2009 20:11:58
In theory they are not immune. Reality is they are.
Originally by: necrosia demora
eve isnt about fast fix's, its about adapting and overcoming. your problem is you want to kill anything with ease, but whs arent about ease they are about challange. if your not willing to accept that challange then you should stay away from whs.
There is a loophole that allows someone the ability to avoid PVP with ease. Knock that one down (the reason for this thread), then talk to me about eve not being about doing anything with ease.
|
Red Thunder
tr0pa de elite
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:14:00 -
[53]
ccp mentioned sleepers coming to kill your pos.....lets hope and pray :)
Eagles may soar, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines |
Mad Sc1entist
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:38:00 -
[54]
You could always just kill the defenses then sit afk with a cap-stable lazor ship(s)...
|
necrosia demora
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:45:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Sig Sour
Edited by: Sig Sour on 08/10/2009 20:11:58
In theory they are not immune. Reality is they are.
Originally by: necrosia demora
eve isnt about fast fix's, its about adapting and overcoming. your problem is you want to kill anything with ease, but whs arent about ease they are about challange. if your not willing to accept that challange then you should stay away from whs.
There is a loophole that allows someone the ability to avoid PVP with ease. Knock that one down (the reason for this thread), then talk to me about eve not being about doing anything with ease.
omg how stupid are you.
the pos is there. you want it dead you either attack it or form a fleet to attack it. as is the case with a c1 wh you need to build your fleet instead of just jumping through a hole and insta poping it with easy.
if your not willing to even try it then thats your fail. how is a pos in a wh a loophole that is immune to attack. it is only immune because you wont try. wh pos's call for different tactics and there are many different ones to from. this is not a broken mechanic its all your arrogance and unwillingness to try a different approach
|
Yerotun
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:45:00 -
[56]
To tell you the truth, there are other ways to get someone in a w-space system. a war of attrition, this means you just would have to live there too, and prevent them from getting supplies in. but that is for too much work for the avg alt ya know.. siege the damn hole man!!
|
necrosia demora
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:54:00 -
[57]
Edited by: necrosia demora on 08/10/2009 20:55:36
a war of attrition is going to hit a carebears wallet far more in a wh than an all out attack. think about it how many millions does it take to run a pos. now if its sole purpose if for producing t3 then its going to have all its reasources for the production there for ease. you blockade that pos and they not only loose a pos when it finnaly goes but all the fuel stores which by the end have run out and now all the gas/t3 componants and maybe even ships. if they stay they die and if they run you have a chance of stealing everything.
this compared to just destroying it is that time loss. time is afterall money and in eve loosing a month due to an attrition war can be very costly especially if you have so much invested in that pos.
|
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 20:55:00 -
[58]
For what it is worth, you can get battleships into class 1 and class 2.
I think only one kind of class 1 allows battleships, Z971 at 100 million kg. Not all battleships will fit though.
All class 2 allow all battleships (even an Orca will fit), and you can get about 20 battleships in on a fresh wormhole.
|
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 21:46:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Sig Sour on 08/10/2009 21:47:50
Originally by: necrosia demora
omg how stupid are you.
the pos is there. you want it dead you either attack it or form a fleet to attack it. as is the case with a c1 wh you need to build your fleet instead of just jumping through a hole and insta poping it with easy.
if your not willing to even try it then thats your fail. how is a pos in a wh a loophole that is immune to attack. it is only immune because you wont try. wh pos's call for different tactics and there are many different ones to from. this is not a broken mechanic its all your arrogance and unwillingness to try a different approach
Care to put your money where your mouth is? I propose a wager, 1 billion isk. I will setup a pos in a class 1 WH, and if you can kill it within 2 weeks, you get a billion isk. If not, you pay me a billion isk. What do you say?
|
LeeIaa
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 21:55:00 -
[60]
dude, you just bring in bs till the hole closes, find exit, move bs not in the hole to that site, bring in more till hole closes, find next exit, rinse repeat. come on man you just makin excuses to be lazy.
|
Lucjan
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 21:56:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
pro tip - Set up a pos in a wh system that has a static wh to ANOTHER W-SPACE SYSTEM.
Stop giving away 'pro tip's!
|
Yerotun
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 22:09:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sig Sour
That does not balance out for a PvP game. In a PVE game that argument would hold water.
hmm, no pve...then wtf are missions and npc rats, and ...an....a....
the game is interpreted by the player playing the pod pilot. The game is presented as a sandbox. Some people build castles in this sandbox, others destroy it. You seem to fail in both and not really know how long it takes to remove a pos with a compentent group of pilots.
this seems to be where you are failing.
|
Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 22:11:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Ukucia on 08/10/2009 22:11:43
Originally by: Sig Sour
Edited by: Sig Sour on 08/10/2009 21:47:50
Originally by: necrosia demora
omg how stupid are you.
the pos is there. you want it dead you either attack it or form a fleet to attack it. as is the case with a c1 wh you need to build your fleet instead of just jumping through a hole and insta poping it with easy.
if your not willing to even try it then thats your fail. how is a pos in a wh a loophole that is immune to attack. it is only immune because you wont try. wh pos's call for different tactics and there are many different ones to from. this is not a broken mechanic its all your arrogance and unwillingness to try a different approach
Care to put your money where your mouth is? I propose a wager, 1 billion isk. I will setup a pos in a class 1 WH, and if you can kill it within 2 weeks, you get a billion isk. If not, you pay me a billion isk. What do you say?
I like the part where he gives a time frame shorter than how much fuel one can expect him to have at the POS. Especially since he'd be setting up a deathstar, so he wouldn't be wasting CPU/Grid with reactions, assembly arrays and the like.
|
Capt Fossil
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 22:24:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Sig Sour
People who setup a pos in w-space are not the ones I am picking a bone with here. It is the carebears who seek the SAFETY of the class 1 systems. The overhead it takes to actually PVP with these folks is outrageous, they are removed from the PVP element of the game, which to me is an exploit. People are using it as an immunity card which is not what Eve is supposed to be about.
lol...another L337 "PvP whiner". Man there's another thread goin right now u should jump in on. In spite of Mr SourPuss here, thanks to all the other folks who have supplied a wealth of info and links.
Here it is, you may wanna get over and contribute some of your Whine!
|
JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 22:32:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Lucjan
Stop giving away 'pro tip's!
This !! Just stop.
|
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 22:33:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Ukucia
I like the part where he gives a time frame shorter than how much fuel one can expect him to have at the POS. Especially since he'd be setting up a deathstar, so he wouldn't be wasting CPU/Grid with reactions, assembly arrays and the like.
Hey I am just coming up with a figure that seemed reasonable to me, what do you want 2 months? Make it 16 bil then, although I don't have that kind of liquid isk and somehow I doubt most of you do either. Which brings me to the very point that time investmnet vs possible return is NOT WORTH IT and makes it immune to pvp. Make it worth my time and Ill be there. If you really want me to slap on some carebear modules, I can swing that as well.
|
necrosia demora
|
Posted - 2009.10.08 22:46:00 -
[67]
why the hell would you want to kill someone in a c1 anyway. nothing in there worth fighting for and if its just a case of a war dec then an attrition war would win that war for you.
|
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 02:50:00 -
[68]
Originally by: necrosia demora
why the hell would you want to kill someone in a c1 anyway.
He's looking for free/cheap kills. Having a POS in system means there's somewhere safe for the prey to hide, so he can't rely on his warp disruptor bubble snaring them as they try to flee through the exit.
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Jojo Jackson
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 03:15:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 09/10/2009 03:16:26
Originally by: Sig Sour
People who setup a pos in w-space are not the ones I am picking a bone with here. It is the carebears who seek the SAFETY of the class 1 systems. The overhead it takes to actually PVP with these folks is outrageous, they are removed from the PVP element of the game, which to me is an exploit. People are using it as an immunity card which is not what Eve is supposed to be about.
For me it is an exploid, that there are so many ways to FORCE people into PvP if the want or not.
EDIT: and no, EvE is not all about PvP as CCP allways mention "EvE is a sandbox where you can play as you like" - and get over it, many do not like to PvP! So stop crying and try to force them to!
And with this you just show, that you are nothing but a dam pirat who do NOT look for real PvP but for easy kills to pimp your K/D ratio.
There are several WH inhabitants, who actual fight for there systems. We try it too, not allways with success but we try. We tryed to settle in 00 before but it failed becouse we can't bring quadillions of Caps and Supercaps .. so we lost becouse of not enough SP. For WHs we do have the SP as we all can fly BS or Logistic ships.
But you can be sure, that we check our changs before we try to fight! We don't come out of our bubble with 2 BC when the scanners tell us there are 20 BS waiting for us ;).
We did some hostil takeover of some WHs and so I can tell you: it is absolut posible within accepteble time and manpower! (ps: waiting to run out of fuel is no great idear. Many WH-POSes contain fuel for 60 to 300 days *g*).
So why the hell should it be an exploid?
Just becouse you can't gangbang them without brain? Well, maybe your brain needs a buff but for sure WH-POSing no nerv ;).
|
Brachis
Caldari
Eve Liberation Force
Circle-Of-Two
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 03:25:00 -
[70]
It does seem a bit ridiculous to attempt to take out a large tower in low level W-space, but I think the issue the OP is trying to bring to light is the fact that such a tower, given the circumstances, is essentially an indestructible bastion for whichever corporation has the means to access and fuel it.
Considering that W-space seems to have been intended as even more of a no-man's-land than lowsec or nullsec, the prospect of having an indestructible tower in W-space is a lucrative prospect, since an industrialist corp can have a private staging ground in a potentially profitable system.
Assuming that an opposed force is attempting to disrupt that corporation's economy or defeat them in a legitimate war, that W-space bastion is a very safe, effective means of continued production that is nearly impossible to disrupt if the corp in question is even at least halfway competent. You can argue the logistics issues of shipping supplies to and from W-space, but a competent, prepared and experienced corporation that is intentionally taking advantage of W-space starbases is going to understand the limitations, and most likely have their own solutions.
Really though, while they would have logistics methods, there are other ways of offlining such a tower without even reinforcing it, and they would require much less manpower.
After all, it only takes a handful of pilots to entirely disrupt a supply chain. If there are alliances capable of keeping gatecamps and station camps running 23/7 for weeks at a time, surely you can use a small number of ships to keep your enemy corp distracted enough to the point that it runs out of fuel entirely and offlines itself (And that way you can take the stuff inside for youselves).
I suppose either method involves quite a lot of time investment, but I think many of us have come to expect that kind of gameplay from EVE.
-
"I do this with but one small ship and I am called a terrorist... you do it with an entire fleet and are called an Emperor." |
Jojo Jackson
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 03:38:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 09/10/2009 03:41:27
Originally by: Brachis
a competent, prepared and experienced corporation that is intentionally taking advantage of W-space starbases is going to understand the limitations, and most likely have their own solutions.
thx for this point.
If the owner is somewhat competent ... you should be somewhat competent TOO if you want to destroy there tower.
And here we found the main problem of the OP -> it is not posible to brainless gang this tower with 200 Dreads but you need some logistic, time and on top competence to kill the tower.
And this is one of the facts, why many small corps/allys use WH towers. They might not have the SP- or just Man-Power to bring 200 stupid Dreads but can bring a good logistic and a nice BS and lower fleet. With WH POSing they found there place in the EvE-Sandbox and it's good this way :).
PS: and even with a POS WH life is dangueres!
Every then and now someone jumps in with his H-Dictor or medium fleet and attacks you. So you will for sure lose some ships and have PvP. So WH POSer take this risk for a (medicor as L4s are much more lucrativ) income and try it.
Why the hell can't you respect this risk (PvPers allways whine "risk v reward" don't they??) this corps take?
|
Blasphemour
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 12:42:00 -
[72]
Yes, trying to not get killed is an exploit... so your WT docks when his armor is getting pounded at and you petition him 'ZOMG EXPLOITZORS BANHAMMER NAO!'
pittyfull...
Wormhole space is not safe. dictor gangs come in regularly and blast the hell out of everyone not inside the pos forcefield.
I smell a bit of jealousy...
|
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 16:20:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Brachis
It does seem a bit ridiculous to attempt to take out a large tower in low level W-space, but I think the issue the OP is trying to bring to light is the fact that such a tower, given the circumstances, is essentially an indestructible bastion for whichever corporation has the means to access and fuel it.
Considering that W-space seems to have been intended as even more of a no-man's-land than lowsec or nullsec...
Yeah that's it and that's why it doesn't feel right to me.
And for anyone who wants to say "you could, you are just being lazy" - Put your money where your mouth is, the offer is out there, take me up on it.
|
necrosia demora
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 16:30:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: Brachis
It does seem a bit ridiculous to attempt to take out a large tower in low level W-space, but I think the issue the OP is trying to bring to light is the fact that such a tower, given the circumstances, is essentially an indestructible bastion for whichever corporation has the means to access and fuel it.
Considering that W-space seems to have been intended as even more of a no-man's-land than lowsec or nullsec...
Yeah that's it and that's why it doesn't feel right to me.
And for anyone who wants to say "you could, you are just being lazy" - Put your money where your mouth is, the offer is out there, take me up on it.
no because unlike you we dont care.
got far better things to do than prove you wrong. why would i want to waste my own money and time to prove to you that it can be done when its obvious with a little effort it can be.
|
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 16:40:00 -
[75]
Originally by: necrosia demora
..its obvious with a little effort it can be.
put your money where your mouth is.
|
necrosia demora
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 16:50:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: necrosia demora
..its obvious with a little effort it can be.
put your money where your mouth is.
what part of no dont you get.
your whole argument is just for the sake of arguing. you want easy targets and whs dont offer that to you. it does offer a challance though to those that want it and if i wanted to take out a pos in C1 i would find a way to do it at any cost same as i would to a 0.0 corp or a high sec corp. all have there challanges but all totally doable. just because its time consuming and expensive to do doesnt mean is wrong. your just un willing to addapt. and dragging anyone into a pos fight just to prove it isnt worth the hastle and i certainly dont want to waste my time on a lowlife like you. i got better things to do
next you will be wanting to be able to shoot pos's in high sec freely or have them removed.
|
Cadde
Gallente
FireworX
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 17:32:00 -
[77]
Originally by: necrosia demora
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: necrosia demora
..its obvious with a little effort it can be.
put your money where your mouth is.
what part of no dont you get.
your whole argument is just for the sake of arguing. you want easy targets and whs dont offer that to you. it does offer a challance though to those that want it and if i wanted to take out a pos in C1 i would find a way to do it at any cost same as i would to a 0.0 corp or a high sec corp. all have there challanges but all totally doable. just because its time consuming and expensive to do doesnt mean is wrong. your just un willing to addapt. and dragging anyone into a pos fight just to prove it isnt worth the hastle and i certainly dont want to waste my time on a lowlife like you. i got better things to do
next you will be wanting to be able to shoot pos's in high sec freely or have them removed.
This man speaks the truth!
If it's possible to take down a pos in class 1 wormholes then it's not an exploit issue but rather a balance issue. So to begin with, stop calling it an exploit! Because it IS possible, even if it takes a billion isk to to it... IT IS POSSIBLE to take down a POS in a class 1 w-space.
I have bashed a large pos before with a few battleships and that took about 6 hours to bring to reinforced mode.
If someone really wanted to bring a pos down in class 1 space they would do it. Using a few battleships or even smaller ships capable of withstanding the defenses of that pos. When the defenses are taken down then more ships with real damage fits on could join the frenzy.
If the target is a deathstar pos then what's the point in taking it down? It has no strategic value beyond being a safe spot for the owners. What you do then is fit cloaks on your ships, wait for them to come out of the pos and go to a signature. Then you scan them down, uncloak and warp to them. Scram them and kill them! They will miss the beat sometime, and you will get your kills!
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
|
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 17:51:00 -
[78]
necrosia demora, you are not willing to back up your own words, I am. So you seem to be the one coming here just to argue.
cadde, please get up to speed with the conversation before you post.
|
Atropos Kahn
Caldari
Solarflare Heavy Industries
Kahora Catori
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 18:17:00 -
[79]
Why not just put up your own POS in the same system... what can they do about it?
Then PVP them into oblivion, and you will win the hole...
"what is good for teh goose is also good for the gander"
|
Selina Starfire
Silver Snake Enterprise
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 19:47:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Sig Sour
Edited by: Sig Sour on 08/10/2009 20:11:58
In theory they are not immune. Reality is they are.
Originally by: necrosia demora
eve isnt about fast fix's, its about adapting and overcoming. your problem is you want to kill anything with ease, but whs arent about ease they are about challange. if your not willing to accept that challange then you should stay away from whs.
There is a loophole that allows someone the ability to avoid PVP with ease. Knock that one down (the reason for this thread), then talk to me about eve not being about doing anything with ease.
I'm not sure you're in the same reality as everyone else...
You claim they are "immune" to pvp...in a 0.0 security system...with no Concord present to save their butts from being shot at...... Call me a moron if you want, but I and obviously everyone else here so far that's posted to your thread, have failed miserably at seeing your logic.
How is this any more of an exploit than those who reside in high sec empire space, making their millions/billions with Concord watching their backs?
Because they can run to their POS? How is that any different than running to a station?
Because their POS is nearly impossible to destroy through common methods of overwhelming firepower? Try the uncommon methods, such as cutting them off from the ability to resupply, as so many have suggested here that you so blatantly seem to be ignoring.
Please elaborate and explain to me, to everyone(because obviously no one else sees it but you), in a little more detail as to how these C1 w-space dwellers are more removed from PVP than your standard high sec carebear....How this is an "exploit" as you have called it.. I would really love to hear this..
|
necrosia demora
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 19:47:00 -
[81]
Edited by: necrosia demora on 09/10/2009 19:52:38
Originally by: Sig Sour
necrosia demora, you are not willing to back up your own words, I am.
ok first of i have no interest in your warmongering and secondly you expect me to satify your need for pvp by wasting all my money on trying to take you out single handedly without any skills even remotely capable of doing that even in empire. im not the one trying to prove something here you are.
if your willing to set up a pos for me to attack you then how about doing that to attack someone else. this attitude trying to get me to fight you just shows what your really after and thats a 1 sided easy win. my part in this is for facts, facts which you in your small mindedness and nievity are un willing to accept. i unlike you am a strategist who takes pride in planning and preperation and taking my time to reach my goals. your just in it for cheap thrills and preying on the weak.
what is it with some pvper's that when anyone show strength towards them they say its an exploit.
a wormhole pos's offers time not immunity. they are only immune when people like you are unwilling to even consider your options of attack
|
Sig Sour
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 20:11:00 -
[82]
Originally by: necrosia demora
im not the one trying to prove something here you are.
By making false claims that it is feasible, and not willing to back your words up in the slightest, you are trying (not very hard obviously) to prove something. So again (try and get it this time) - put your money where your mouth is.
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations
Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 20:14:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Sig Sour
So again (try and get it this time) - put your money where your mouth is.
You first.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Cadde
Gallente
FireworX
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 21:48:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Sig Sour
necrosia demora, you are not willing to back up your own words, I am. So you seem to be the one coming here just to argue.
cadde, please get up to speed with the conversation before you post.
I'll have you know I've been actively following this particular thread since i made my post at #48. I can also say that what your title says and what you keep trying to convince us of is that players that set up poses in W-space are using an "unintended" mechanic to their advantage thus they must be exploiting.
Just because they can hid in their pos in relative safety doesn't mean they are safe. Quite the contrary, they are in 0.0! While it can be hard, time consuming and costly to evict them from that space it isn't by any degree impossible. No matter HOW much isk the attacker will require to make it work, it is still possible within the current game mechanics. So fine, it's quite possible that it's too hard for the average Joe to pull off considering his current available resources but so is barging into goon space and killing one of their poses.
considering the number of posters in here that disagree with you, it's quite obvious that you are wrong in your way of thinking.
But i guess you are just one of those guys that never admit fault even if your life depended on it. So since you know you are so right about it why don't you take it to where it matters, petition it, escalate it when they decline your petition. After the second dismissal, please go ahead and write a letter to CCP about how everybody is wrong but you. Then petition some more!
When you petition enough, CCP will fix the problem for you. It will probably go something like this:
"Abuse of the petition system, banned for X days/months/years/permaban. *CLICK*"
...
OR, you can come to your senses and realize that the only way to change this is to come at it from a different angle.
Post a thread suggesting a way to make it easier to take down towers in Class 1 wormholes without changing the way poses in Class 2 and up work. Something along the lines of larger wormholes leading to class 1 space to allow you to take more battleships through.
Features and ideas is that way --->>
Have a nice evening!
//Cadde
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
|
necrosia demora
|
Posted - 2009.10.09 21:53:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: necrosia demora
im not the one trying to prove something here you are.
By making false claims that it is feasible, and not willing to back your words up in the slightest, you are trying (not very hard obviously) to prove something. So again (try and get it this time) - put your money where your mouth is.
so myself and everyone else in this post are all making false claims and you are the only one who is right. dont make me laugth.
your just digging your grave deeper and you just dont see it. your baseing your whole argument on me not wanting to fight you. you cannot come up with any constructive crytisism over suggestions others have made other than prove it. your acting like a 10yr old. we dont need to prove anything. the mechanics of the game do not lie. they are set in stone and all the suggestion myself and everyone else has suggested will work if you try them.
telling me to prove it is irrelivent if you have never even tried to prove your own facts.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |