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zalasti
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Posted - 2009.10.09 19:26:00 -
[1]
I am a region wide trader in The citadel region, I have noticed over the last week one trader in Motsu has updated his order 5 minutes after I have updated mine.
It's 23/7, this last week, and as I change my orders every few hours I see that no matter who updates their order he tops it 5 mins after.... I spent a couple of hours on the toon one evening to test him out, I update my orders over those few hours and it was always the same... he was straight in behind me updating his.
To me it looks and smells like a bot, especially since it goes from DT to DT.
So i have petitioned him. Maybe i am wrong and he is a person, but i doubt it.
Has any other trader noticed it?
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.09 19:33:00 -
[2]
Buy 1 item from him. Find his name.
If you think it is a bot, report him.
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Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.09 20:22:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: zalasti
I am a region wide trader in The citadel region, I have noticed over the last week one trader in Motsu has updated his order 5 minutes after I have updated mine.
It's 23/7, this last week, and as I change my orders every few hours I see that no matter who updates their order he tops it 5 mins after.... I spent a couple of hours on the toon one evening to test him out, I update my orders over those few hours and it was always the same... he was straight in behind me updating his.
To me it looks and smells like a bot, especially since it goes from DT to DT.
So i have petitioned him. Maybe i am wrong and he is a person, but i doubt it.
Has any other trader noticed it?
1. How can you be sure it has been going on 23/7 DT to DT? Have you stayed on for weeks, 23/7, DT to DT, testing him out? If you have, then by your own estimation, you are a bot. If you have not, you have no idea if he has been and cannot claim such.
2. I've done this before myself. I spent maybe half an hour to an hour warring with a guy, topping his order every 5 minutes. The only reason I stopped was because my wife and I were going somewhere. Otherwise I probably would have continued for a while, just to see how it turned out. I guess I am a bot.
3. How do you know it is one trader? I'm not saying you're wrong here. I can tell sometimes when it is the same person or a different person making orders. Just throwing that out there. But you really see that it is the same person topping orders every 5 minutes? Whether your order or other peoples?
So yeah, I guess petition, but I've run into similar circumstances, so I am a bot as well! Strange what this does for the self-image.
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Maurice MerleauPonty
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Posted - 2009.10.09 20:44:00 -
[4]
I too have been revealed to be a bot. I thought I was a trader doing market pvp, but when others pointed out the symptoms in a thread a couple of weeks ago, my personal existential crisis/hell began. It has been a disturbing and tumultuous time for my family and those who love me. Nevertheless, I thank this game for bringing my true nature to my attention.
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DONJUAN v
Tarnak inc.
The Kadeshi
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Posted - 2009.10.09 20:45:00 -
[5]
your not a bot , but now we know whos the owner 
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TraderAlt 3104989531
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Posted - 2009.10.09 21:02:00 -
[6]
Originally by: zalasti
I am a region wide trader in The citadel region, I have noticed over the last week one trader in Motsu has updated his order 5 minutes after I have updated mine.
That was you?!? If you get something from ccp, my apologies, I reported you as well.
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Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.10.09 21:16:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 09/10/2009 21:16:36
I had a similar incident, only this guy was updating his buy order few secs after the highest buy order. It was like this every day and every part of the day; only a bot could do something like this.
So, I brought one item and sold it to him, found out who he was and reported him. Sure enough, few days later, his character wasn't found.
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.10.09 21:30:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Frenden Dax on 09/10/2009 21:30:15
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Edited by: Brock Nelson on 09/10/2009 21:16:36
I had a similar incident, only this guy was updating his buy order few secs after the highest buy order. It was like this every day and every part of the day; only a bot could do something like this.
So, I brought one item and sold it to him, found out who he was and reported him. Sure enough, few days later, his character wasn't found.
[Sarcasm]There aren't bots, how do you know he was a bot? Maybe he thinks you're a bot since you're always on when he's on. You have no proof, bots don't exist.[/sarcasm]
Oh, inb4 the "bots don't exist" crowd.
Originally by: Karanth
Or, in other words, random people can't usurp rights from government because they are insane/bitter/vengeful/made of potato salad.
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Liliana Rahl
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Posted - 2009.10.09 22:03:00 -
[9]
"Bots don't exist crowd" reporting in
now what are we talking about?
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Andron Blaxcor
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Posted - 2009.10.09 23:31:00 -
[10]
Does the trick of offering a station trade to them still work? Offer them some items and see if they accept. Someone did this to me a few months ago, I can only guess it was to see if I was a real person or a bot. Unless the bit is programmed to accept station trades. With a bit of thinking around the problem you could distinguish a bit from a person I wager...
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clixoras
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Posted - 2009.10.09 23:49:00 -
[11]
why can't CCP just filter on dubious market orders and ban bots if they are here at all?
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Sin Sati
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Posted - 2009.10.10 00:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: zalasti
I am a region wide trader in The citadel region, I have noticed over the last week one trader in Motsu has updated his order 5 minutes after I have updated mine.
It's 23/7, this last week, and as I change my orders every few hours I see that no matter who updates their order he tops it 5 mins after.... I spent a couple of hours on the toon one evening to test him out, I update my orders over those few hours and it was always the same... he was straight in behind me updating his.
To me it looks and smells like a bot, especially since it goes from DT to DT.
So i have petitioned him. Maybe i am wrong and he is a person, but i doubt it.
Has any other trader noticed it?
same happened in JITA 10days ago,I posted a pettion about that
And that's why I hate 0.01 Isk WAR!!
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Jei'son Bladesmith
The Storm Knights
The Cool Kids Club
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Posted - 2009.10.10 02:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: clixoras
why can't CCP just filter on dubious market orders and ban bots if they are here at all?
define dubious
and yes, that was my point
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BigBank Hank
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Posted - 2009.10.10 02:44:00 -
[14]
As MD algorithm experts, please define an algorithm to determine if a player is a bot vs an no-life loser who sets their alarm clock every 30 minutes. Please also include a contingency case for polyphasic sleep.
Oh, and a proof that your system doesn't produce massive numbers of false positives would be nice.
ps: If you can solve this, you should probably send a resume to CCP along with a description of the problem and solution.
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Eifersucht87
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Posted - 2009.10.10 04:44:00 -
[15]
who cares, volume in citadel sux anywayz
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zalasti
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Posted - 2009.10.10 08:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dretzle Omega
Originally by: zalasti
I am a region wide trader in The citadel region, I have noticed over the last week one trader in Motsu has updated his order 5 minutes after I have updated mine.
It's 23/7, this last week, and as I change my orders every few hours I see that no matter who updates their order he tops it 5 mins after.... I spent a couple of hours on the toon one evening to test him out, I update my orders over those few hours and it was always the same... he was straight in behind me updating his.
To me it looks and smells like a bot, especially since it goes from DT to DT.
So i have petitioned him. Maybe i am wrong and he is a person, but i doubt it.
Has any other trader noticed it?
1. How can you be sure it has been going on 23/7 DT to DT? Have you stayed on for weeks, 23/7, DT to DT, testing him out? If you have, then by your own estimation, you are a bot. If you have not, you have no idea if he has been and cannot claim such.
I have allot of free time. so I'm online about 10 to 12 hours a day... plus I have asked a few friends in different time zones to add him and tell me if he's offline for any period of time when I'm not on to watch him... they tell me that if he goes offline, he is back on within 30 seconds
Originally by: Dretzle Omega
2. I've done this before myself. I spent maybe half an hour to an hour warring with a guy, topping his order every 5 minutes. The only reason I stopped was because my wife and I were going somewhere. Otherwise I probably would have continued for a while, just to see how it turned out. I guess I am a bot.
I have 0.01 him for a solid 2 hours, and alas he has followed me every time, I could only last that long till I was bored of my ***'s
PS, to all the MD elite that have posted nothing but sarcasm, move along to EBANK/DBANK threads, where someone will actually give a crap!
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flakeys
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.10.10 08:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Eifersucht87
who cares, volume in citadel sux anywayz
I disagree
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Signore Kaeota
Caldari
Caelum Incognitum
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Posted - 2009.10.10 09:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: zalasti
I have 0.01 him for a solid 2 hours, and alas he has followed me every time, I could only last that long till I was bored of my ***'s
PS, to all the MD elite that have posted nothing but sarcasm, move along to EBANK/DBANK threads, where someone will actually give a crap!
1) Then just keep doing so, then either buy his stock or fill his order (depending on if it's a sell / buy).
2) Everyone is quite within their rights to think your an idiot, and to post sarcasm about it. The 'OMG trading bot!' thread comes up every other week at least. More often than not, they're false - and this isn't the place to post it one way or the other (the correct place being, nowhere. The petition system exists for a reason).
-_-_-_-
I, Signore Kaeota, hereby apologise for any and
all offence caused by the contents of this above
post, and all others that I have written, or
otherwise been responsible for.
-_-_-_ |
zalasti
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Posted - 2009.10.10 09:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Signore Kaeota
Originally by: zalasti
I have 0.01 him for a solid 2 hours, and alas he has followed me every time, I could only last that long till I was bored of my ***'s
PS, to all the MD elite that have posted nothing but sarcasm, move along to EBANK/DBANK threads, where someone will actually give a crap!
1) Then just keep doing so, then either buy his stock or fill his order (depending on if it's a sell / buy).
2) Everyone is quite within their rights to think your an idiot, and to post sarcasm about it. The 'OMG trading bot!' thread comes up every other week at least. More often than not, they're false - and this isn't the place to post it one way or the other (the correct place being, nowhere. The petition system exists for a reason).
Dude have you even read my first post... I have petitioned him... and as for sarcasm, I'm only returning what I received.
Plus this is the right place to post, I pay for eve same as everyone and I'm entitled to voice my opinions where I see fit.
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Ivy Brookdale
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Posted - 2009.10.10 10:04:00 -
[20]
It doesn't matter if its a bot, a chinese farm shop or just someone with way more time to spend than you. Fill a petition if you like. But most important you should adapt to the situation and change your strategies. If I was an established region trader I'd be very happy to see some new kid on the block eager to raise region price levels and afterwards letting me dump all my stuff in low-sec and scattered places I'd never visit to haul anyway.
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Baron vonBlood
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Posted - 2009.10.10 11:16:00 -
[21]
I seem to recall reading about a script/app that would alert the player if their sell order was not the lowest sell order on the market. Apparently the player would still have to manually lower the sell order though. I guess this wouldn't be too hard to make into a bot. I'm just guessing, but try matching the sell order exactly, from the same station with the same quantity of items, etc. I'm not sure a bot could easily tell the difference.
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Nostra Dameus
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Posted - 2009.10.10 12:09:00 -
[22]
Originally by: zalasti
I'm online about 10 to 12 hours a day
Clear case of bot infestation, I recommend that you visit your local medical unit for a physical examination and purge.
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Hugh Hefner
Caldari
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.10 15:52:00 -
[23]
I cant help but wonder how many bot-petitions CCP get daily from enraged Jita-4-4-traders lol
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Signore Kaeota
Caldari
Caelum Incognitum
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Posted - 2009.10.10 21:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: zalasti
I have petitioned him
Making this another whine thread - thank you for clarifying.
-_-_-_-
I, Signore Kaeota, hereby apologise for any and
all offence caused by the contents of this above
post, and all others that I have written, or
otherwise been responsible for.
-_-_-_ |
Wieting Foyu
Gallente
Foyu Trading World
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Posted - 2009.10.11 07:32:00 -
[25]
One way I have found to test for bot is to make your sell order just .01 isk higher than the highest buy order. In 5 min the bot that was continuously undercutting me was no longer on the market and the highest buy order was filled so I relisted and no undercutter.
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ARMTEL
Value Added Traders
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Posted - 2009.10.13 11:14:00 -
[26]
Edited by: ARMTEL on 13/10/2009 11:14:48
Originally by: Wieting Foyu
One way I have found to test for bot is to make your sell order just .01 isk higher than the highest buy order. In 5 min the bot that was continuously undercutting me was no longer on the market and the highest buy order was filled so I relisted and no undercutter.
So once found could you not have many of those items in stock and then increase the b/o by double or more and when the bot increases its order sell the stuff you have in stock to it...just a thought as I dont know how these bots work, they could have a ceiling price not to go above?
Also what happens if you ave 2 bot fighting each other in the same system 
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Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.17 21:27:00 -
[27]
It was most definitely a bot. I reported it myself on the 14th. As of 10ish am eastern on the 17th it was not online. Not sure if its because it was busted by CCP or because it just hasn't been logged in yet..
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Sria
Opportunity Cost
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Posted - 2009.10.18 02:13:00 -
[28]
I don't understand how you could possibly believe that there aren't sell bots. There are bots that will mine for you, what would make you think this is any different?
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Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.18 03:56:00 -
[29]
Motsu bot back online as of 11:50pm eastern. 3-5minute updates as it cycles through its check list. Also it does appear to have a price limit set on individual items as I was not able to get it to respond to the old .01 isk less than lowest sell price trick.
When I get back to my main cpu at home (outta town right now) Ill confirm his ID and post it up (the only cheap item the bot is buying is solar system only.) It only purchases implants at region wide.
If anyone wants to see the bot in action, put up a buy order for 'Local Hull conversion expanded cargo I' (among many possibilities)
Don't worry about purchasing any if you don't need. Your order won't last longer than 4 minutes.
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Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.18 05:27:00 -
[30]
Okay I couldn't sleep so I flew over to Motsu anyway. Time for name and shame
The bot is running on character 'Grr sales'
Come on CCP, how many people have to petition something this obvious to get some action?
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Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
Stir Crazy Research and Manufacturing
Wicked Nation
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Posted - 2009.10.18 07:02:00 -
[31]
Stop crying about it and move on. I've competed with price bots and there is literally no easy way of getting around them, they will always pop back up. Best move on to another item and leave the loser to his cheap tactics :)
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Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.18 13:45:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kuzya Morozov
Stop crying about it and move on. I've competed with price bots and there is literally no easy way of getting around them, they will always pop back up. Best move on to another item and leave the loser to his cheap tactics :)
Lol good advice. If someone cheats then quit trying. Thanks Dr. Phil.
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Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.18 21:07:00 -
[33]
Confirm, 11am eastern no 'Grr sales' online and bot is not working
5pm eastern, 'Grr sales' online and bot back online.
Do not mistake this for crying or whining. This is documenting.
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Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.19 00:12:00 -
[34]
8pm eastern, 'Grr Sales' still online
Market bot still functioning. 3-4 minute bot bidding still in effect.
Bot might be watching this thread. No longer on 'Local hull conversion expanded cargo' (prob just filled quantity)
Now look for "'pandemonium' I ballistic enhancement"
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2009.10.19 01:53:00 -
[35]
With a 5 minute minimum interval for updates there's hardly any point to a bot, and if you can't figure out how to work around it you probably should just pick up a Hulk and go mining. The asteroids won't run from you, I promise.
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Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.19 02:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tiberizzle
With a 5 minute minimum interval for updates there's hardly any point to a bot, and if you can't figure out how to work around it you probably should just pick up a Hulk and go mining. The asteroids won't run from you, I promise.
While your post is mostly antagonistic I won't hold it against you. One, I kinda like it and two, it would make me quite the hypocrite.
More to the point. You make no sense at all. the 5 minute interval is what causes the problem. If the timer was 30 minutes it would both not be such a nuisance, and most likely never caught.
Let me break it down for you.
minute 1, I update orders
minute 2, Bot updates orders while I am still on order 'cooldown'
minute 5, I update orders
minute 6, Bot updates orders while I am still on cooldown
Net time 'order on top'
me = 1 minutes * # of attempts
bot = 3 or 4 minutes * # of attempts
Please with your infinite wisdom, tell me how to 'work around it'
Perhaps something that doesn't require multiple alt and meta gaming. Or better yet something within the spirit of the game, whatever that might be.
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Sria
Opportunity Cost
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Posted - 2009.10.19 04:20:00 -
[37]
If it is just one person, and it is indeed a bot there is a way that you can have your items listed ahead of his consistently while you are actively price raising/lowering.
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Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.19 05:44:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Haven Wind on 19/10/2009 05:45:27
Originally by: Sria
If it is just one person, and it is indeed a bot there is a way that you can have your items listed ahead of his consistently while you are actively price raising/lowering.
1. If you are refering only too 'while actively price raising/lowering. Then yeah I can use an alt to get ahead in the cooldown cycle. This would be a bandaid on a compound fracture, thanks for nothing
2. If you are refering too a concrete solution then your assuming all bots function with the same methodology, but they don't so it's a push. Might help, might not.
3. If there is some full proof way and you are treating this as privaliged information then I would say that's borderline collusion.
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Emily Envy
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Posted - 2009.10.19 07:06:00 -
[39]
Split your orders.
Update first order, wait for bot to update.
Then update your second order.
Shouldn't that work?
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Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.19 11:43:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Emily Envy
Split your orders.
Update first order, wait for bot to update.
Then update your second order.
Shouldn't that work?
that would work for a few minutes. I'm not really looking to babysit the orders all day. More looking for a 3 hour solution, not a 3 minute one.
I've decided to update my orders once (per update session) and then ignore them, outbid in 3 minutes or not.
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.19 18:30:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Emily Envy
Split your orders.
Update first order, wait for bot to update.
Then update your second order.
Shouldn't that work?
hell theres a bot in jita that runs two orders ~2:30 apart its pretty amusing
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Joel McBeth
Caldari
JJ Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.19 18:41:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Joel McBeth on 19/10/2009 18:42:03
Edited by: Joel McBeth on 19/10/2009 18:41:38
The other day while trading at Motsu I noticed some guy would always outbid me on a particular item every 5 minutes or less. I kept trying out outbid him for an hour or two. I eventually was able to get my by order on the top by beating his buy price by a more significant amount.
I started to assume it was a bot, but I never petitioned it, although I thought about it. I did find out his name was 'Grr Sales'
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2009.10.19 21:07:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Let me break it down for you.
minute 1, I update orders
minute 2, Bot updates orders while I am still on order 'cooldown'
minute 5, I update orders
minute 6, Bot updates orders while I am still on cooldown
It appears I'm a bit late, so I'll let this other user break it down for you:
Quote:
Split your orders.
Update first order, wait for bot to update.
Then update your second order.
Shouldn't that work?
There's at least a couple other ways to take advantage of the 5-minute interval alone to make it difficult for other traders to edge you out. I am not going to spell them out for you.
Quote:
I'm not really looking to babysit the orders all day. More looking for a 3 hour solution, not a 3 minute one.
What's this, you want free ISK for doing nothing? I have a great idea, why don't you setup a bot!
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Xetal Maelstrom
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Posted - 2009.10.19 23:48:00 -
[44]
Cheating is cheating, CCP should come down hard on any form of it.
I bet the "just ignore it" crowd would be crying their eyes out if someone cheated in PvP and popped their ship.
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Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.20 00:51:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Tiberizzle
stuff
1. Thanks for pointing out stuff I already addressed
2. If your putting in more work than updating orders once every 8 hours then your either making billions a week (day?) or your doing it wrong.
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Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.20 02:33:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Haven Wind on 20/10/2009 02:34:19
10:29 eastern
'Grr Sales' online
Bot functioning as normal. updating within 2:30
Tried opening trade window and chat request. Funny part is that while neither stopped the bot, it continued to update orders without closing the requests or responding to them.
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SexyTrader 01
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Posted - 2009.10.21 02:30:00 -
[47]
Goldman Sachs bot trades IRL and makes $3 billion profit per quarter and pays its average employee $700k per year. What's the problem? |
Haven Wind
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Posted - 2009.10.21 03:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: SexyTrader 01
Goldman Sachs bot trades IRL and makes $3 billion profit per quarter and pays its average employee $700k per year. What's the problem?
In eve we can dream(?) of regulation and enforcement?
Also, Bot was online as of 5pm eastern but 'not' active.
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