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Druithynn	Posted - 2009.10.11 11:15:00 - [1] I'm new to the game; my toon is about a month old. I had been in Eve for about a fortnight when I bought some ISK on-line. I admit I hadn't read the 'rules' and because there are so many sellers I thought it was OK. To be honest I wanted some ISK quickly. My ISK was confiscated by CCP and I was directed to the rules - I now know I shouldn't have done this! I wasn't banned - presumably because my character is so young and I was given the benefit of the doubt and my purchase was attributed to naivety. Anyway, my question is: why is it so bad to but ISK? If I put more ISK into the game doesnÆt everyone benefit in the long run (I buy things so traders, manufacturers etc. all benefit). Why is it legal to but game cards/PLEX on-line to sell but not ISK? On-line sellers benefit no matter what so it's not as though they suffer. The same sellers provide both ISK and PLEX. Or is the bottom line that CCP only benefit is I buy/sell GC/PLEX. If the latter fine - I have no problem - I'd just like to know. Thanks
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2009.10.11 11:30:00 - [2] Edited by: Serge Bastana on 11/10/2009 11:30:23 The big difference between getting isk via the sellers/farmers and selling GTC/PlEX is that when you sell the timecode the money comes from another player and that player then has purchased game time, keeping them playing, whereas the isk from the sellers you see in various chat channels is considered RMT, real money transactions. The isk sellers also, more than likely, used macros to gather the isk you're buying, mining, mission farming, etc. You also run the risk of downloading keyloggers when you buy from the isk selling sites as well, which compromises the security of your account, allowing the isk seller to use your account to generate even more isk which they can then sell to people willing to buy it. ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Agent Crush	Posted - 2009.10.11 11:31:00 - [3] Well, buying ISK from sellers takes money away from CCP. If you were to buy ISK, just buy it from CCP so the developer gets the money to improve the game instead. Money to an ISK seller goes into their pockets for ??hookers and drugs?? while money to CCP has a small chance to benefit game players in terms of better server stability and possibly better user/gamer experience. Secondly, ISK farmers compete with others in game, undermine prices, use more server CPU, etc etc.
Morgan La'Chance Caldari Dynamic Reallocation and Logistics	Posted - 2009.10.11 11:37:00 - [4] Disconnect your Internet connection, do a full virus scan, change all your passwords from a different computer. About one third to half of all ISK purchases gives you a FREE (!!) keylogger with every purchase. Also it's bad because it encourages people to be lazy **s depending on the * farmers, it leads to keylogged accounts and stolen ISK, and it's a third party turning the game into a business. Only buy gamecards/PLEX from CCP or licensed dealers. Also, ** you for buying ISK.
Gsptlsnz	Posted - 2009.10.11 11:59:00 - [5] Worth remembering that the game-illegal ISK sellers compete with real players for the easiest ISK. For example all those Hulks in highSec sucking up the Veldspar you'd like to mine in your frigate? They're not all real players.
Druithynn	Posted - 2009.10.11 12:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Morgan La'Chance Disconnect your Internet connection, do a full virus scan, change all your passwords from a different computer. About one third to half of all ISK purchases gives you a FREE (!!) keylogger with every purchase. Also it's bad because it encourages people to be lazy **s depending on the * farmers, it leads to keylogged accounts and stolen ISK, and it's a third party turning the game into a business. Only buy gamecards/PLEX from CCP or licensed dealers.[/quote Thanks for the advice Originally by:** Morgan La'Chance Also, ** you for buying ISK. Now you spoilt a constructive reply by being abusive - well if it makes you feel better...**
Druithynn	Posted - 2009.10.11 12:44:00 - [7] Thanks for the information - I guess I've learned my lesson. Another question - how do I know who 'authorised' PLEX sellers are? A google search gives the same sites as ISK sellers. Is it 'legal' to but PLEX off the latter? I don't want to fall foul of CCP again Thanks
Morgan La'Chance Caldari Dynamic Reallocation and Logistics	Posted - 2009.10.11 13:11:00 - [8] Edited by: Morgan La''Chance on 11/10/2009 13:10:40 https://secure.eve-online.com/etc.aspx has the list of certified dealers.
Vikura Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.11 13:12:00 - [9] www.evetimecode.com www.battleclinic.com www.shatteredcrystal.com To name few. Also you can buy 30day PLEX from account managment, but i don't know if it's applied to your account right away.
rofflesausage	Posted - 2009.10.11 13:19:00 - [10] http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=550 Buying ISK = More hacked accounts for them to get ISK = Hacked accounts is bad You only need to look at the explosion of key loggers that were on the forum once the Unholy Rage kicked in.

Dr Lebroi	Posted - 2009.10.11 13:19:00 - [11] Is it ok to buy plex from the auction siteEbay? I see them on there but not sure if it's allowed?
Morgan La'Chance Caldari Dynamic Reallocation and Logistics	Posted - 2009.10.11 13:27:00 - [12] Not allowed.
Druithynn	Posted - 2009.10.11 13:48:00 - [13] Thank you all again - I've just used Shattered Crystal which is an authorised GTC seller (or so they say!). Pity I didn't know all this earlier - guess I should have read the rules!!
Druithynn	Posted - 2009.10.11 21:14:00 - [14] Well I've discovered that buying GTC/PLEX from Shattered Crystal is actually cheaper than buying from one of the (presumably Chinese) sites that sells PLEX and ISK. (ú43/$69.99 from SC; ú50/$79.18 from the 'other' site for 2 x 60 day GTC). So I guess it is better to stay on the proverbial 'straight and narrow'!
Serge Bastana Gallente GWA Corp	Posted - 2009.10.11 22:20:00 - [15] As you discovered, authorized vendors save you money and give you more isk for your cash, I've had a few laughs with people watching the isk sellers advertise their service, knowing that you can get more just by selling a GTC than they offer. And you're actually helping another player to keep playing, so you benefit the game while you pad your wallet. ------------------------------------------------ You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag. Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited!
Mocam	Posted - 2009.10.12 02:13:00 - [16] Plex is appreciated by many players. You have those that haven't paid a subscription fee in months because they can afford to buy the plex in game. Those that try and talk about plex as "bad" get shouted down by many players -- they like not having to pay to play the game. When you buy ISK, you feed the spammers that flood the channels -- NOBODY likes spam so you'll get a lot of hostile reactions talking about buying it because that is you supporting spam in the game we all play. So, buying plex and selling it for ISK in the game is appreciated by many where as the only ones that appreciate you buying ISK are the ISK vendors. That's a pretty simple explain on "player" logic for the differences. The rest is all about safety in buying/selling, and the like but player wise -- you won't hear folks yelling about your buying plex, you will hear a lot of crap talk for buying ISK...
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.10.12 02:18:00 - [17] Edited by: De''Veldrin on 12/10/2009 02:18:39 Originally by: Gsptlsnz Worth remembering that the game-illegal ISK sellers compete with real players for the easiest ISK. For example all those Hulks in highSec sucking up the Veldspar you'd like to mine in your frigate? They're not all real players. Some of us are, in fact, real players. Jackass. the ones that aren't real players are the ones who never seem to need to sleep. --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2009.10.12 03:27:00 - [18] Edited by: Zartanic on 12/10/2009 03:35:49 Buying ISK from unofficial sites = Online spamming Forum spamming Botting which includes a disproportionate strain on the server as bots spam commands. Honest players are pushed out of farming spots. Account and credit card theft Phishing attempts and players's email ruined/abused Additional costs to CCP and indirectly the players to deal with the above. Inconvenience to players (scanner nerf, 5 minute posting delay etc) Distorted market prices with players unable to compete in the market Overpriced Plex prices High probability of other loggers, trojans and viruses being installed on the buyers computer which may then affect others. Buying ISK from CCP = CCP makes money and none of the above. Players can play for free Its not that hard to work out why its bad from unofficial sources is it? As to buying ISK at all I think EVE is one of the very few games where it works reasonably well. If a player can't handle what the ISK buys he loses it fast anyway. If they do use it wisely then good luck to them, its not for me though as I still consider it cheating.
Janice Jankowski	Posted - 2009.10.12 04:45:00 - [19] Originally by: De'Veldrin Edited by: De''Veldrin on 12/10/2009 02:18:39 Originally by: Gsptlsnz Worth remembering that the game-illegal ISK sellers compete with real players for the easiest ISK. For example all those Hulks in highSec sucking up the Veldspar you'd like to mine in your frigate? They're not all real players. Some of us are, in fact, real players. Jackass. the ones that aren't real players are the ones who never seem to need to sleep. Reading comprehension FTW
Kara Sharalien	Posted - 2009.10.12 05:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Druithynn why is it so bad to but ISK? If I put more ISK into the game doesnÆt everyone benefit in the long run (I buy things so traders, manufacturers etc. all benefit). oh dear, you dont get economics, do you? tell me, if i use my magic wand to create bars of gold out of thin air at no cost, and go around paying people in bars of gold for my shopping, maccas etc. and basically hand it out like candy, what do you think will happen to the value of gold? if you spend IRL money to get ISK, and then go spend piles of ISK like it is candy, then you devalue the ISK. baseline mineral prices will drop like a stone because ISK sellers are mining using bots and flooding the mineral market to earn the ISK they sell to you, the prices of every ship as a result will drop and profit margins will become slim, and everyone makes less ISK except the macro miners, who then go and sell it to you. the amount of money in eve is like a basin of water. the tap up the top is dropping water in, the plug is letting it out, but the total amount remains more or less constant. if you drop a hyper-absorbent sponge in the mix, the sponge absorbs lots of the water into itself, and there is less water in the basin for everyone else. the Luminare titan: lets pop that *****! http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1175042&page=1

Dagny Bronstein	Posted - 2009.10.12 07:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Kara Sharalien oh dear, you dont get economics, do you? lol, half of your post is simply wrong because of the way insurance mechanics work in EVE - and you accuse other people of not getting economics. explanation for newer players: insurance payout is calculated using fixed mineral "baseprices". Real market prices often deviate from these baseprices by quite a bit, but the whole "mineral basket" (prices weighted with approximate demand from building ships) cannot drop significantly under the level given by the baseprices as otherwise insurance fraud becomes possible (build ship, insure platinum, self-destruct, profit!) soaking up the excess minerals and bringing the price level up again. And yes, some people have been self-destructing dozens of battleships during the last few days/weeks, as the mineral basket is at a low (due to increased respawn rates in high-sec and a lack of warfare in null-sec). So basically, there is a bottom floor in mineral and ship/mod prices - even macro users/isk buyers cannot change this. Profit margins for producers becoming slim has nothing to do with the price of minerals, but solely with the competition amongst industrialists. If you price your ship at <cost> + 5% or something similar, your margin will always be 5% regardless of cost. It will only go down is industrialist B comes along and sells his ships for <cost> + 3%.
Winters Chill Amarr Genetic Perfection	Posted - 2009.10.12 11:40:00 - [22] Try to use GTCs responsibly, if you rely on them for your ISK, you'll miss most of the rather spiffing content. Also losing real money to ship loss with just stress you out.
Druithynn	Posted - 2009.10.12 12:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Winters Chill Try to use GTCs responsibly, if you rely on them for your ISK, you'll miss most of the rather spiffing content. Also losing real money to ship loss with just stress you out. I have sold just one GTC; I'm 'saving' the other! I wanted some ISK to start trading and I didn't want to ask players for loans and I'm still in an NPC corp so I have no corpmates as such. I do not intend to rely on GTC to make my money in Eve but I did want a kick-start... Cheers
Mashie Saldana BFG Tech	Posted - 2009.10.12 13:50:00 - [24] Originally by: Druithynn Thanks for the information - I guess I've learned my lesson. Another question - how do I know who 'authorised' PLEX sellers are? A google search gives the same sites as ISK sellers. Is it 'legal' to but PLEX off the latter? I don't want to fall foul of CCP again Thanks Buying PLEXs for cash is not allowed as they are ingame items, buying GTCs is allowed as they are out of game items.
Captain Tardbar	Posted - 2009.10.12 15:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Vikura www.evetimecode.com www.battleclinic.com www.shatteredcrystal.com To name few. Also you can buy 30day PLEX from account managment, but i don't know if it's applied to your account right away. I bought throuhg shattered crystal using paypal. They called me to verify I was legit and then emailed me the time codes. Only took about 30 minutes for them to call me when I ordered it on the page of course this was about noon US east coast time. Then I logged onto Eve and converted the GTC into plex and sold it through Jita using the approved CCP methods.
Druithynn	Posted - 2009.10.12 23:21:00 - [26] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Buying PLEXs for cash is not allowed as they are ingame items, buying GTCs is allowed as they are out of game items. Thanks for the clarification. So, presumably all the stuff you can buy on these sites - skill books, modules, ships etc. are illegal items?
Mashie Saldana BFG Tech	Posted - 2009.10.12 23:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Druithynn Originally by: Mashie Saldana Buying PLEXs for cash is not allowed as they are ingame items, buying GTCs is allowed as they are out of game items. Thanks for the clarification. So, presumably all the stuff you can buy on these sites - skill books, modules, ships etc. are illegal items? That is correct, no ingame items are allowed to be sold for cash, including characters.
Haguu Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.10.13 01:52:00 - [28] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Buying PLEXs for cash is not allowed as they are ingame items, buying GTCs is allowed as they are out of game items. It is allowed to purchase 2,4, or 6 plexes from CCP with a credit card. http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/30_days_Concord_Pilot_License_Extension
Morgan La'Chance Caldari Dynamic Reallocation and Logistics	Posted - 2009.10.13 07:13:00 - [29] Because when buying them straight from CCP you are essentially buying a 60 day GTC but skipping the shipping and PLEX conversion process.
Mashie Saldana BFG Tech	Posted - 2009.10.13 08:37:00 - [30] Originally by: Haguu It is allowed to purchase 2,4, or 6 plexes from CCP with a credit card. True, but I don't think it was the EVE-store the OP was browsing. The latest and greatest form of RMT is PLEX's being sold on eBay and other sites for dead easy ISK to cash convertion.



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