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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.10.12 00:49:00 -
[1]
During one of the fanfest videos posted on youtube, the browser team says
"someone said something about oAuth and OpenID, we may make our own"....
Crack smoking?
So how did "making your own" browser work out?
Straight off on the same path again? Brave.... and stupid.
Every single social network is going OpenID and oAuth.
While CCP walks off in their own direction with nothing in hand....
Most of the new functionality being talked about is exposed through javascript hooks (so 1990s)
which means only CCPs new browser will work. Out-of-game most sites designed for this browser will simply error.
This could mostly be done with standard remote authentication schemes without locking any browsers out.
Then the social network has none of the features of any standard social network.
No OpenSocial?..... Without OpenID and oAuth API access there is no real increase in functionality for API users.
Why bother? If users have a choice between CCP's dodgy social network that fails at most things,
and a 3rd party that offers all the modern convienences.... Why would a user visit the CCP wasteland?
Need a clear picture from the social network and browser teams explaining why they are deciding to go off
in their own direction. Are they in-fact planning to not implement any open standards like they keep hinting?
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.10.12 01:41:00 -
[2]
The real world:
Stand-alone app:
* Eve players authenticate via OpenID with 1-2 clicks.
* Application is given oAuth tokens for the user, no more API keys.
* Application can interact with Eve via shellextensions or local API/library.
* API Encryption provided via oAuth.
OpenSocial app:
* User can install the app on social network of their choice, CCP, Facebook, MySpace, etc.
* Application can authenticate user with OpenID/oAuth and consume Eve API on their behalf.
* Application can interact with Eve client via shellextensions, or browser addon/toolbar (which then uses local API/lib).
* API Encryption provided via oAuth.
Eve client integration:
* Browser addon/toolbar or OS level shell extensions all browsers could be made to support the new hooks.
User Options:
* User can disable IGB and instead use the browser of their choice.
Software that tries to do everything, usually does everything poorly.
Thus users like to have software specifically built for each purpose.
i.e. Browser for browsing, spreadsheet for doing spreadsheets....
Benefits:
* All browsers and all applications benefit from newly exposed features.
CCP's world:
Stand-alone apps:
* Still require API keys.
* Can't trigger interactions with Eve client.
* No encryption is provided.
OpenSocial app:
* Sorry our social network isn't social.
Eve client integration:
* Only available from CCP's browser when used in-game.
Benefits:
* Security, as only the IGB can use anything or benefit from any new features.
User Options:
* User is unable to open URLs in external browser with removal of shellexec: extension.
* Disabiling IGB results in brick-wall.
* User has no real options. IGB or nothing.
Cons:
* Miss out on each new feature being leveraged across the whole net within any technology.
Result:
* COSMOS sold-short, can't provide what others can, no unique selling point.
* IGB the only way to access anything, killing user choice.
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Mr Spot
I Blame Chum
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Posted - 2009.10.12 07:39:00 -
[3]
Fully supported.
This COSMOS thing could be so much more useful if CCP would ditch the whole not-invented-here mindset.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.10.12 08:16:00 -
[4]
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jemos
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.12 15:36:00 -
[5]
I did some easy readup on OpenId and oauth.
Since I know nothing about how these mechanics works, I can only asume that OpenId and oAuth somehow interacts with the client during the session.
Since the ingame browser will (Bah all those layers) using awsomeium, they said something about the site not being able to interact with the client. Or at least not send stuff to the client since it all gets rendered into a picture.
Perhaps that's the reason that this will not work?
I do however think that CCP is a bit overprotective with their white/black-list.
 Originally by: FireT
If you have capitals..... well for the love of Raptor Pope, use them before they rust away. 
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.10.13 00:34:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 13/10/2009 00:35:27
Originally by: jemos
Perhaps that's the reason that this will not work?
No.
..........
OpenID would allow you to securely login to other sites using your Eve credentials (without exposing them).
Then using oAuth the 3rd party site can make hits to the Eve API on your behalf without any further API keys or the like.
OpenSocial allows you to run social graph aware applications that can be installed on any social network.
These technologies are the basis for any social network being built today.
There is no one except CCP considering doing a social network without these technologies.
A crapton of existing content/work/technology out there and CCP is rolling their own.
So CCP is making a calendar..... great....
Why not just implement OpenSocial so I can choose from the 5000 existing calendar applications?
CCP will be in the same boat they're in now in another 8 months.
Dealing with a custom built non-stanard system that doesn't play well with others.
The other half of the picture is most of the features of the social network are only accessable using the IGB.
It could all be done in any browser, all browsers, including IGB. Instead everything is locked into IGB. No Choice.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.10.13 01:06:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 13/10/2009 01:14:01
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 13/10/2009 01:08:05
Here's some scenarios for the non-tech.
A:
I'm at the office, I have an idea, I want to add it to my calendar, I can't open the black background CCP site at work.
REAL WORLD:
I open up my Google homepage and add it to the calendar app running there (or on my desktop, or whereever it might be).
These changes then appear on my AvatarsUnited, Facebook, MySpace and COSMOS pages instantly.
CCP's WORLD:
I write it down on paper and remember to add it when I get home.
B:
I'm browsing an Eve related site and encounter a showinfo link.
REAL WORLD:
I click it and the Eve addon to my browser sends the command to my Eve client.
CCP's WORLD:
I click it and get a javascript error.
Copy paste the URL, open another browser in-game, re-navigate to the same page, click it again.
C:
I wish to write a web application for Eve users.
REAL WORLD:
I can choose OpenSocial and will be able to install the application in many different containers.
Social features for little extra work.
User registration/confirmation/login is all handled for you.
I can use oAuth to access the API without further API keys.
I can interact with the Eve client from any browser.
CCP's WORLD:
You must re-write your application to use proprietry hooks provided.
It can not be installed on any social networks.
It will not work in any other browser except IGB
Users must register, confirm separately.
D:
I have an existing application I'd like to use with the Eve social network.
REAL WORLD:
Install it, OpenSocial will understand it.
CCP's WORLD:
Re-write it just for CCP.
You can't install it on the social network.
You'll need to write all the user management and your own social features.
Missing out on so much potential.
It's quite amazing that someone could decide to make a social network,
without properly investigating the technologies that all social networks are using.
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Chinwe Rhei
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.10.13 09:54:00 -
[8]
I think you're exagerating:
- any site can check if the client is the IGB or not so there's no reason for you to ever get javascript errors
- COSMOS as a CCP site will have internal access to the EvE database beyond what is safe to be exposed through the EvE API or sent through IGB headers, so there's no reason for COSMOS to be dependant on the IGB and not available on other browsers
- having third party apps access the game client directly is a horrible ideea
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.10.13 11:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Chinwe Rhei
I think you're exagerating:
I'm sure I am, just putting a spin on it to show how poor things can turn out.
Originally by: Chinwe Rhei
- any site can check if the client is the IGB or not so there's no reason for you to ever get javascript errors
Just lack of functionality instead.
Originally by: Chinwe Rhei
- COSMOS as a CCP site will have internal access to the EvE database beyond what is safe to be exposed through the EvE API or sent through IGB headers, so there's no reason for COSMOS to be dependant on the IGB and not available on other browsers
Not so much that it's dependant on IGB, but that half the stuff only works in it.
Originally by: Chinwe Rhei
- having third party apps access the game client directly is a horrible ideea
No more access then is provided to a web page when the IGB is used. Just the methods like "showinfo".
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