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Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.14 13:33:00 - [1] This should be another fun thread.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.14 14:19:00 - [2] Originally by: Kva Plexcha Yih, labelling your detractors as Goonswarm Alts is a curious tactic, and doubtful to work. You are selling a fantastic "concept" that I'm sure most of EVE, goons included, are wondering if it could possibly work. However, there are too many holes, or some obvious ones that will simply be your downfall. This is your 3rd thread on this "concept", I'm not sure what happened to the last one, but I had asked you some questions that I dont think were answered before it faded to obscurity. I have 2(ish) here. You are spending 10 b on "hush" money. Do you think this is enough? What prevents one of the recipients from reading this thread and realizing he can simply "leverage" you for more? Only 10 b to keep this secret? Spread among multiple peeps? This doesnt seem like much and also seems easily to be bought out buy someone else who would gladly expose you, or worse discover and prevent your actions. TL;DR on that question is the 10b doesnt seem like enough hush money and revealing the amount will probably just causes you more problems. The second one is you made a statemnt somewhere that other GS members have offered their services to you - Clearly this means your security, and the security of your plan, is not sufficient. How are you gong to account, deal with this? You asked another poster to post holes, here are 2, please answer. And if your comment will be that I'm an obvious GS alt, I will gladly have my main contact a trusted member of the MD community to have them independently verify this. The only one I trust here is Tesal, as he has demonstarated his ability to expectorate viciously upon said goons. I'll be the first to confirm that the right Goon director could easily steal a rather large amount of isk and materials. I don't think any amount of isk would work as "hush money". This would just be too hilarious to expose. Actually, the directorate actually stealing a pile of goon money would be pretty hilarious too, so who knows. Try to remember that there is only one thing that will motivate people here: "What is the most fun we can have?" Collecting internet space money for internet space money's sake isn't going to be it. Watching all EvE go bonkers sure would be. So, either taking you guys for 300 Billion, or taking the Goons for 600 billion would sure fit that bill. Though, I don't know if we'd even notice a 600 billion isk loss. In the scheme of things, that's not all that much.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.14 15:08:00 - [3] Originally by: Yih no one in GF truly trusts anyone else. Picture an actual pirate den. That's how GF is, people are wary of each other, even the big guys. Those who aren't wary (or don't show it) are either fools, or are completely autonomous. (and hence don't need to be) Statements like this make me doubt you really are a director.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.14 15:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Yih Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: Yih no one in GF truly trusts anyone else. Picture an actual pirate den. That's how GF is, people are wary of each other, even the big guys. Those who aren't wary (or don't show it) are either fools, or are completely autonomous. (and hence don't need to be) Statements like this make me doubt you really are a director. Well since you're in GoonSwarm, I'll let that doubt fester, thankyou kindly. Doubt it if you like, but it has been confirmed, by more than just VV and Cosmo, and in different ways also. No, they won't be revealed here. I'm a spectator here making observations. Also, I've never asked you who you are.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.14 18:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Dretzle Omega Yih is a fanfiction author that has written 39 stories for Evangelion, Card Captor Sakura, Dark Angel, Fushigi Yuugi, Hana Yori Dango Mae Yih Oh god. Its a Rho.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.14 22:02:00 - [6] Originally by: Charles Swann claiming Kalrand is Yih's alt is just ridiculous, he's only appeared in the very last thread. Two persons stand out however: If anyone cared to google or check, you'll quickly realize that this is my main. Also, I have no power within goonswarm. Pretty much anyone can confirm that. Originally by: Charles Swann How many goons that could wreck "devastating" damage on GS does VV know by name (she's a 2009 character and to my knowledge not involved in GS/GF) Stealing 600B in stuff from us would not be "devastating".
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.14 23:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: How many goons that could wreck "devastating" damage on GS does VV know by name (she's a 2009 character and to my knowledge not involved in GS/GF) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stealing 600B in stuff from us would not be "devastating". This is what comes to the eyes: that people just cannot read what is openly stated before their eyes. The sentences were made with great care, not a word should be skipped just because a personal bias sways off what's written. Huh?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.15 01:14:00 - [8] Originally by: Yih Stop mentioning 600B - it makes you sound like an idiot. I'm not stealing 600B worth of stuff. I'm destroying around 2.5T worth of stuff, or maybe you mystically skipped over that part? Again? Oh. Well in that case this would be quite hilarious. Carry on.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.15 17:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Tokclik get enough directors scared this thing is legit, and they start working less effectively as a team, You are insinuating that our directors are effective and work as a team. How dare he!
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.16 17:56:00 - [10] Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: Katiana Swan To the people who audited Yih, Was there a clause in the audit acceptance stating you could release Yih's main characters names in the event he scams market discussions investors? Yes, if he SCAMS (which will include my investment) I will release the main's info and if people don't believe that the chat logs. If the IPO isn't successful and the money is returned the main's identity remains a secret. Any end result in which investors ARE NOT scammed the identity of Yih's main character will remain secret unless he chooses to announce it. note: Most audits have a clause that if character information is kept secret the auditer will release all the information to the public in the case of a SCAM. Names of all character ALTS, etc.... You know, if you really thing this will work, get Ray to invest whatever's left in Ebank into this. That might be the only way to get that back to solvency.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.18 13:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Yih waves at Kelrand waves back Some people up above were asking about Chribba. I was told when I first joined that he was one of the few non-goon, non-allies that we weren't allowed to scam or attack.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.02 14:45:00 - [12] Is this the big announcement?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.03 22:51:00 - [13] Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: Dzil Cosmo, would you mind posting to confirm when/if you receive the 600M back? I will. If you don't receive the 600M back, will you be revealing his name?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 17:36:00 - [14] Originally by: Tesal Also, no Goon can talk about "integrity". That is the entire point of being a Goon, that they lack integrity. We're just playing a different game than you. Originally by: cosmoray With Goonswarm again re-affirming members are free to SCAM any non-members (as endorsed by Karttoon) or that scamming in general is fine, that gives anyone probable free reign to SCAM any Goon members. The old rule, SCAM a SCAMMER is not wrong. Finally for those who hadn't seen this (we haven't had any in a while), never invest in a Goon offering. We used to get a few, only Sophie was successful. I need to look back somewhere, but when ever I point out that the MD forum people have this mindset towards taking one goons money to pay off anothers debt, people swear up down and sideways that that would never happen.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 18:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Venal Inamorata Pretty good rep for Cosmoray there. Until he gave the green light to scam all goons.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 20:11:00 - [16] Originally by: Hans Jeschonnek Edited by: Hans Jeschonnek on 05/11/2009 19:42:45 Looking at this thread, VV is either a complete idiot for not recognizing this obvious scam and refusing to be involved, or is corrupt in allowing himself to be payed to help convince people to invest, irregardless of what you see your 'scope' as. Either way, I wouldn't personally use his services in the future after this. It should be noted that VV's alliance is the historical enemy of Goonswarm. But beyond that, I actually didn't see much wrong with what they reported, until the entire thing unwound. VV appears to have been very careful in choosing his words. But the stupid thing is that if Karttoon wanted to haul all our stuff away and disband us, he could. The fact that he's telling you that his motivation was to make ISK, should have been a pretty big red flag to the auditor/third party/whoever that the whole thing was garbage. Some sub level spy-director would have been far more plausible. Originally by: corestwo I direct you to our internal loans forum where there is at least a 95% return rate or me and other goon businessmen who have taken out massive, multi-billion isk loans or bonds (50b in my case) with absolutely no security at all and still not run off with it. Then come back and say that Goons "lack integrity". Its like Kalrand said, we're just playing a different game than you. ~11 billion here outstanding. ~5 billion in paid off loans and bonds. No collateral or audit, but I do drop pages and pages of :words: on people every few weeks to keep people up to date. The only reason I would come to the MD board now for funds would be if I wanted to refinance to a lower interest rate. Most of my debt is 7.5% per month. But I doubt it would be worth the hassle.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 20:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: It should be noted that VV's alliance is the historical enemy of Goonswarm Beyond the luls (being paid by GS with my tag) I did not consider the alliances involved a bit. This is what some flamers don't get. Being new-ish to the game I don't have the prejudices pro or against anyone. I don't know GS, I don't know BoB (that my corp recently decided to join) for me both are fat unknowns. I didn't mean for it to come out that way. I meant it as a comparison as to why Chribba couldn't be a part of this, and you could. You were in a unique position. Oh, and despite your newness, you are still the bad guy to us.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 20:57:00 - [18] Originally by: Roguehalo "able to control a director" What exactly does that mean and what evidence were you given? The only evidence acceptable to me would have been an undoctored login screenshot showing Yih and Karttoon on the same account. Anything else would have been so open to deception(as has proved the case) as to be totally meaningless. .....which would be a EULA violation to demand that.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 21:23:00 - [19] Edited by: Kalrand on 05/11/2009 21:22:47 Originally by: Khava Barayev You're an idiot. You really have no clue what an audit is, do you? Anyone who believes for a second that an investment audit would even work in EVE is terminally ******ed. You even stated that you were working for Yih rather than working for the investors. You know nothing of what an audit is. And yes, an auditor who gives out a letter of recommendation to a crap investment is held accountable for it, can be sued, and will likely lose their professional designation. Its called professional negligence you putz. Maybe you should read up on GAAS if you want to roleplay an internet spaceship auditor. Here's a protip to help your make believe profession along: look up an assertion of completion, what a recommendation is, and due diligence in cases of fraud. Bigger tip: no auditor would recommend any investment in EVE. Edit: hahaha, CCP has censored yiddish insults Who are you?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 21:44:00 - [20] Originally by: cosmoray Rule on MD has always been that scammers are fair game, and it has always been my policy that there no rules with scammers. Do you consider me a scammer?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 21:52:00 - [21] Originally by: Tesal Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: cosmoray Rule on MD has always been that scammers are fair game, and it has always been my policy that there no rules with scammers. Do you consider me a scammer? You are participating in a scam right now. I take it you didn't read any of my comments in this thread.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 21:59:00 - [22] Originally by: Tesal As for the words coming from Kalrand, for all you know, you are talking to a Karttoon alt. He is here to troll you, I believe that much for sure. He doesn't log on much that I can see, maybe I just miss it. This deserved it's own reply. Go hit up eve-search and find the post where I listed all of my alts. Take off "Sally Bestonge" (not mine anymore) and then track more than my main. Also, I'm now Karttoon? Seriously?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 22:31:00 - [23] Originally by: Yih The fact that this is continuing to provide popcorn commentary even after the fact, is great. So Kalrand, where's my invite huh? Invite to what?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 22:41:00 - [24] Originally by: Yih lol, yes - I never paid 500m, well I guess 'technically' I did to Karttoon, but hey. Kalrand, I was hoping Yih could also belong to the charles ponzi school :) Why on earth would you want to be in my alt corp?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.05 22:53:00 - [25] Edited by: Kalrand on 05/11/2009 22:55:57 Originally by: Yih Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: Yih lol, yes - I never paid 500m, well I guess 'technically' I did to Karttoon, but hey. Kalrand, I was hoping Yih could also belong to the charles ponzi school :) Why on earth would you want to be in my alt corp? Because, posting with that corp name behind me sounds like it would be fun :) Soon the CEO will be "Bernie Ebbers". For a corp for yourself. Is "Old Colony Foreign Exchange Company" still available? Or "Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC"?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.06 02:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Tiberizzle In fact audits are worse than pointless, as the process lends "credibility" to schemes that would otherwise fail to pass a basic sanity check. "I, one of the very people who is skimming from the massive pile of Goon moon gold, am willing to destroy this lucrative, ego-stroking arrangement, all in exchange for a tiny pile of isk. Can you help?" You sir, got the joke that we goons got on the first page of the thread.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.06 14:41:00 - [27] Originally by: Tesal Quoting for future reference: Originally by: Kalrand Originally by: Yih lol, yes - I never paid 500m, well I guess 'technically' I did to Karttoon, but hey. Kalrand, I was hoping Yih could also belong to the charles ponzi school :) Why on earth would you want to be in my alt corp? In Goonswarm, any member corp thats owned by one person for moon mining or production is called an alt corp. This is different than a member corp, which would be BTLS or something like that.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.06 19:51:00 - [28] Originally by: Tesal Right...uh huh, newbs get given Corps in GS. Post with your main. Have you ever looked to see just how many corps are actually in GS?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.12 18:47:00 - [29] Originally by: Moya81 The only thing this scam has proven is that nobody likes GS. Keep making enemies you definetly are good at that. There will come a day where having any relationship with GS in your employment history will be a burden. Before any "U mad" comments are thrown my way, no I didn't invest in this stupid scam, it was pretty obvious from the start. I am however a little amazed that 2 well-known MD elitist have implicitly fallen for this scammer. Yes they did raise the usual "flags" but also implicitly took part in this. Chribba was in my eyes the only one which reacted appropriately clearly not impressed by the blinkies. My 2 cents Just who are you?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.16 15:12:00 - [30] Originally by: Moya81 Therefore your reply that attempts to discredit my statement because I posted with an alt just further confirms what I already suspected. This is not CAOD. Actually, the fact that its not CAOD, makes overly critical, alliance bashing, statements even more out of place here. Especially so when you are posting on an alt. Back up your words with a real name, or they're just noise.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.16 18:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Moya81 I'll do more than back-up my words with a name, I'll back-up my words with facts: Actually, MD is a forum where your name is far more important than your observations. Originally by: Moya81 1. Anybody who has even been marginally active on the forums knows that GS scams on a regular basis. As an organization, you won't be able to point to anything that has been a scam. Individuals have free reign to play EvE however they want. Many of us find the overreaction of people to what happens in a game to be hilarious. Originally by: Moya81 2. This very thread is about a member of GS scam. Yih isn't in GS as far as I know. He probably could get sponsored in if he asked the right people though. Originally by: Moya81 3. The amount of recruitment scams posted in C&P are so numerous that ppl have lost count. Agreed. Originally by: Moya81 So how exactly is stating well-known and documented facts considered alliance bashing? Actually my point is more that you're an obvious alt, more than anything else. Originally by: Moya81 Your attempts at defending a lost cause just makes you loose whatever little crdibility you had. You want to know who I am? In what way is it relevant to the contents of my statements? Unlike yourself, I am not the one asking for people to trust me with their money... Actually, I asked for feedback from people to see if it's feasible in the future. I would like to add that most of the criticism to that has been constructive at this point.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.16 19:07:00 - [32] Originally by: flakeys It is for those who choose the path of the lemming yes I didn't say I agreed. Actually, you'll ususally see me on here criticizing the people who have been around the longest. Quote: If the organisation itself has said it wants eve destroyed , if the name is shown mostly with scams involved and trolling CAOD people will add 1+1 and make 2 They want to kick over your blocks. Not because they really care what you're doing, or because they don't like you, but because they want to see you cry. And they're pretty up front about that. Why do you think CAOD is such a joke? Quote: Correct however he could not have done it at all without the help of a goon in a high position I think the joke was on anyone who thought a high level goon director would need isk to destroy goonswarm. This whole thread was on the same level as a Nigerian Prince needing to borrow money to wire you a fortune. Quote: True and here comes the twitch , i actually believe you are serious about the offer and have no feeling what so ever to make it a scam unlike most do Did you ever see the first post I made on that topic? Months ago when I was just getting started? Here it is. Shortly thereafter I borrowed ten billion isk, and instead of towering one moon, I towered 9.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.16 20:28:00 - [33] Originally by: Krathos Morpheus Facts are more important than words, and although words can be twisted in the mouth of some people, the facts that are behind arguments matters more than any name, I would say that facts without a name behind are easier to consider objectively. The fact that you didn't fight against the facts but the person instead makes me think that you have few arguments to show. Some of his points are correct. Some are just baseless. I really was only arguing the later. The fact that he's an alt means I don't know who it is. Nor do I really care, I was making a point above. Quote: GS not only allows scams, but encourages them, teaching new members how to scam. What is the difference between GS and his members? GS is the people who are in. Actually, directors aren't allowed to do the same kinds of shenanigans that the rank and file can. As far as I know, alliance level agreements don't get broken ever. Quote: What about karttoon? If you were to IM Karttoon right now and ask "XYZ said he's your alt. Is he?" I'd bet he says yes. Quote: As Yih has proved there is always people investing in scams, so you could raise money the same way and choose not to scam at the end, but I'd not trust someone who lose nothing by scamming and has red flags on him, and we'll not know what's your choice until the very end, so anything you say and do until the final closure could be just to enable your scam. There is nothing I could ever say to prove this isn't part of some secret master plan to run off with giant piles of investor money. Quote: Talking about alts, you are in an alt corp, so I believe you must have another character more 'mainly' out there. I think I explained it in another thread. If you want to anchor a POS, and the alliance doesn't want to give you roles to anchor/reset/tear down all of the alliance POSs, you need to have a corporation to do it. I'm a moon miner. That's how you get around CCP's broken game mechanics.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.28 16:19:00 - [34] Do you want to know what happened?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.28 18:40:00 - [35] Edited by: Kalrand on 28/01/2010 18:40:34 Background: One of the things that Goonswarm has been good at for the last few years is getting high level spies into various alliances, or turning high level directors of warring corporations to our side. Because of this, our directorate is structured in a way that any one director would minimize the damage to the alliance. Example: Karttoon has the big giant reserve of all the money, and the only guy who can push the button to nuke the alliance. (Incidentally, this is why Yih's scheme was so hilarious to anyone in GS). Our CFO, gets a large portion of the money, and any of the income, but isn't a "director" in game mechanics, so he can't just take more. This is then dolled out by him to the various projects and titular directors to spend on things. Any income is returned to him, and if there is an excess, it's kicked back up to the wallet controlled by the CEO. Also, we have an independent auditor, who apparently didn't have roles to audit the alliance wallet. Karttoon goes on his honeymoon, promising his wife no internet spaceships for a few weeks, and leaves with all the isk locked up. Our CFO doesn't log into the game for a month, since he's (as we now know) burned out. The auto-pay system continues to take isk from the designated wallet slot. The CFO is not monitoring this. The auditor can't. No one else should/does have roles to monitor this. At the onset of Dominion, our logistics teams determined that they are able to save the alliance more ISK per month by taking down fuel burning towers (set up pre dominion to maintain sov) as compared to turning off sov in systems, though they do that in many of them. Many of the goon member corporations take over the sov payments for their own constellation, with Goonfleet only having leftover to-be-removed systems, logistics systems, and important station systems. War starts and logistics are diverted to fighting off three invading alliances, which with current Dominion mechanics, and Goonswarm's US timezone dominance, is actually going pretty well, though it's 100% defensive. Dominion 1.1 changed the TCU online time from 12 hours to 8, meaning that, if there is no sov, an alliance can take sov in a single timezone. This is not a problem for Goonswarm since we're fighting a defensive war, and still have sov just about everywhere. Two Days Before Sov Drops: Dominion mechanics have autopay fail on many sov payments two days before they are due, and for the next two days send DED mails to various directors that sov is about to fall. Directors receive hundreds of these each day, and their mailboxes are eternally full, so no one sees them and raises the alarm. The Day Before Sov Drops: The CFO pops back in, tells people that he is kind of burned out, and tries to sell his cap ship manufacturing business. No one notices the "kind of burned out" part.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.28 18:40:00 - [36] Edited by: Kalrand on 28/01/2010 18:40:49 The Day: IT happened to be going on some kind of a r64 reinforcement op, and are up later than normal, in force, but out in the middle of nowhere querious. Goons are harassing them, but IT had better numbers at that point. Goons had just finished some other major fight the day or two before, and were in the middle of moving combat ships to NPC Delve in expectation that IT would try to siege NOL, the Goon market capital soon. The bill comes due. There's not enough isk in the wallet. Sovereignty drops suddenly in most of the major station systems in Delve at 11pm EST, in the last third of the US time zone. Member corps are unaffected. Our CEO is still out, and no one can reach him. The CFO is offline, no one has heard from him in two weeks, except for him trying to sell his cap ship business. I figure out what happened, and post in the current op thread. At first most people think it is a billing bug, not a billing mistake. The Mittani takes control and tells everyone to get everything they can haul out of stations to safety. Phrease raises a huge fleet and attempts to defend everywhere at one. Logistics starts onlining TCU's across all of delve. IT realizes what happens about as fast as the rest of the game, and makes a beeline for any important system, especially NOL & J-L. Their numbers swell, as word gets out. Goons log in in huge numbers. AAA invades station systems in Querious. The fight/evacuation continues deep into the night, but IT/AAA/Stain has superior numbers. Random pirates come into querious to try to gank evacuating people in industrial ships. Goons have been outnumbered for weeks, and were able to defend under Dominion mechanics. The only thing needed to defend a system, is to have dominance for one timezone, only once over a four day period. Since sov has dropped, the first alliance to drop a TCU gains sov. IT destroys several goon TCUs all over delve, and replace them with their own. AAA does as well. Sys-K then joins the party and invades TPAR in Period Basis. The Next Day: Many of the Goon TCUs are saved, and online early in the morning the next day. Several of the most important systems were camped and controlled by IT, particularly NOL, the market hub, and J-L, the capital ship staging system. These then become IT systems later that morning after two large battles for control in early Euro prime. Other systems are taken at leisure as the Euro prime goon numbers are not going to be dominant, and by the time Goons regain dominance in the evening US time, several other important, but less key, stations are lost. The CFO pops back online and realizes what happened. The CEO still has no idea.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.28 18:44:00 - [37] Epilogue: The CFO is known to you as "Sophie Daigneau". His cap ship venture was CAIDS.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.28 19:05:00 - [38] Originally by: RAW23 You wound your business down in time didn't you? Yea. I did about two and a half weeks ago. I'm particularly bad at combat, but good at logistics, and wanted to get involved with the combat logistics of the defense of Delve. Since the sov disaster, I've just been evacuating assets (mine and other people), lighting cynos, and spying on the invading forces. I actually didn't suffer any loss. I noticed the sov drop before most people knew what was going on, and had a pre-set system of cyno alts from my moon mining operation. I was out into NPC delve within three hours. My cache of stuff was in empire the next day, though I still have jump clones and laughably fit combat ships that I'm using. Had this happened three weeks ago I probably would have suffered losses, though my operation was tight enough that I would have been able to pay my bonds back in full but definitely would have had to sell my jump freighter to do it. Remember, I owed fifteen billion in principal, and over a billion in interest every month.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.28 19:13:00 - [39] Originally by: flakeys I belive in hearing two sides of the story but so far the only people i spoke to ingame are those on the other side. I would like to thank you for such a nice layout of what happened kalrand. You're quite welcome. I haven't had time to see whats going on in the forums here, what's the other side saying?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.28 19:23:00 - [40] Originally by: flakeys You know how CAOD is , both the IT and co side as the goon side ,hence why i was glad to read a report from you wich i could believe to be accurate. You know, if I actually posted my post in CAOD it would be flamed by all sides for 10 pages. There's a reason people only go there to troll.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.28 20:11:00 - [41] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha QFT Yesterday on SCC lounge I provided what imho is a decently faithful representation of (those I knew when I was there, in one "workhorse corp") IT Alliance's aspirations. We were meant to slowly grow (well, not really that slowly ) and then basically one day face "the definitive battle", with rivers of blood and honor. Not another craptastic end that really does neither bring justice to EvE, nor on those who worked for months to return to 0.0 and ready up, grind dreads, wake up at 2.30am for alliance ops and so on. It has been an unwanted "easy way out", at least for those thinking like me. Edit: as I said yesterday (still on SCC), it's just r3tarded that EvE game mechanisms protect you MUCH more when you lockdown a T1 ammo BPO than when you are at the head of a major alliance. At the end of the day it's pretty funny that Goons pushed a button and ejected BoB from Delve, and then later got ejected because they forgot to push a different button.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business	Posted - 2010.02.03 07:34:00 - [42] Would you like to know what happened?
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business	Posted - 2010.02.03 21:48:00 - [43] Originally by: mynnna Originally by: flakeys Mostly remarkable , the one person named here who would bring goons down is in fact the person who pulled the plug today. Coincidence? Were you an inves...er, sucker? You seem really, really hopeful that Karttoon actually was Yih. It's not impossible that they weren't one and the same, but there's no way in hell he's paying you people if he is.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business	Posted - 2010.02.03 22:13:00 - [44] One Week before the disbanding When we last left the story, Karttoon was happily away on vacation, Delve was on fire, and the CFO had just been sent to the pillory on the goon forum. Over the next twenty four hours word trickled down from the remaining directors that we were abandoning any defense of Delve, and moving out as quickly as possible. The same game mechanics that allowed us to defend against a much larger hostile fleet outside our prime, would doom us to never taking back any of the fallen stations. At this point The Mittani gave a State of the Goonion address which summed up the above points, and gave us a destination: Syndicate, the original home of GoonFleet. Three days before the disbanding Continuing on into the week, Goons evacuated Delve as best they could given the circumstances, first for NPC Delve, then Lowsec, then dumping their assets somewhere in Highsec space, and usually hopping back into Delve to help other people evacuate, and shoot at random IT people. People began to stage in Orville for the eventual push into Syndicate. Delve continued to get worse every day, and personal assets that weren't evacuated by day four would need a fleet to break the station camps. Darius JOHNSON was pulled out of retirement to lead us until someone could locate the CEO. Darius gave a second address to rally people ops focused on breaking ships and materials out of Delve. This continued for several days, with each day being slightly less successful. A large number of mercenary corporations and assorted other wardecs were issued against GoonSwarm and, given the average goon's skill at this game, a huge number of ships were blown up across all of high sec. Eventually Goons made it to Orvolle, which is right on the entrance to Syndicate. Whereupon the immediately got camped into the station by the area residents. Whenever a op was called to clear the undock, the hostiles would dock, and this has repeated for a few days. Two days before the disbanding Karttoon returns! He gets back from his vacation and promptly doesn't log in or post. He eventually shows up on Jabber, and tells everyone that he's not resigning. I have no idea what was going on behind the scenes. The capfleet hulls are transferred to him, to do reimbursements for everything over the last three weeks. The day before Karttoon logs into the forums and makes a handful of posts, half dealing with his vacation, and half trying to downplay how bad everything is. Almost every response is a post telling him to resign. The Mittani begins to run interference to quell the angry Goons, and it tampers down on the forum, a bit. A poll is posted, and Goons are about two to one on the resign or not resign question, not that they have any say in the matter.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business	Posted - 2010.02.03 22:13:00 - [45] The day Karttoon doesn't post. He logs into jabber, and I have no idea what he was up to. Some guy named Kalrand gets appointed to the position held by the old CFO. Around 11pm eastern time, the end of the US prime that most of goonswarm plays in, Karttoon logs in, and kicks out every corporation in goonswarm. Karttoon then takes away hanger rights from anyone he can in GoonFleet. Any sovereignty still held in Delve is lost. Goons are suddenly not subject to wardecs and take the opportunity to fly around and move things. Any titan/capship/whatever in space, at a pos, is bounced out of the shields as soon as the pilot logs in. Hostiles decent on the North syndicate area and attack goons. Some goons attack other goons because standings aren't immediately correct between the member corporations. This is largely fixed pretty quickly. Various directors use hidden alts to steal as much as they can from Goonfleet, but one of them announces this in the corporate local chat, which Karttoon sees, comments on, and continues to remove standings. A mothership is lost to a hostile fleet. A capship producers begins to insurance scam his existing stock that he hasn't been able to sell in a few weeks. Rumors abound that it's Karttoon destroying the cap fleet hulls that had been returned to him. Karttoon starts to post on eve-online.com. He is stripped of access to goonfleet.com. Now Karttoon has the GoonSwarm alliance, the GoonFleet corporation, several wallet corporations, and the Band of Brothers corporation. Along with hundreds of billions in isk and assets. Goons are dropping Goonswarm, and joining Goonwaffe, an old goon corporation from before the increase in the number of members that could be in a single corporation. Darius JOHNSON is in control.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business	Posted - 2010.02.03 22:36:00 - [46] Originally by: SetrakDark Edited by: SetrakDark on 03/02/2010 22:34:47 Originally by: mynnna Which part, exactly? I see a tongue-in-cheek joke about who's laughing at what, some clarifications, and a shot at flakeys. No, we can tell. You're alright with everything...really. It was pretty clear to the average goon that karttoon was about to **** us. This is the guy, who's made his whole eve career about griefing people who trust him.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business	Posted - 2010.02.03 22:45:00 - [47] Originally by: SetrakDark Originally by: Kalrand This is the guy, who's made his whole eve career about griefing people who trust him. yes, yes, we know. you planned the whole thing. shushushushushooooooo it's ok shushsa shusha shoo momma's here No, it wasn't planned. He just started going through the "What to do when you're about to scam someone" bit.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business	Posted - 2010.02.03 22:48:00 - [48] Originally by: Frenden Dax More epic than Suas or Remedial by an order of magnitude and then some. It's what made the Yih thing so odd to us. It's not like karttoon needed isk to do this.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business	Posted - 2010.02.04 16:36:00 - [49] Originally by: Keiko **uka Originally by: Kalrand Informative summary And congrats on your promotion. :) Thanks.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business	Posted - 2010.02.04 17:18:00 - [50] Originally by: Tesal So there are 2 Goon factions now? Rome Goons in Goonfleet and Avignon Goons in Goonwaffe? Who is the real Goon? This can only be decided by the King of France, or maybe a rich banker . Considering one has a 100% tax rate, I think this one won't be hard to decide.

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