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Why i think the flood of alts is a problem.

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Foraven Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.21 08:51:00 - [1] What i want to discuss about is what i find to the a rampant problem. Too many players use alts on a regular basis, for specialized purposes, for alternate income, to circumvent game mechanics, to play on several corp or fool other players... I believe it degrade the game because the choice and actions players make have less meaning, and it's more difficult to have online friends if they spread their time on several alts all over the game world. This also make game balance totally whacked when so much grinding is happening and isks just flow like water between players and alts. What do you think?
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.10.21 08:53:00 - [2] What do you propose?
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.21 08:55:00 - [3] Originally by: Zaqar What do you propose? More alt pirates.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.10.21 08:57:00 - [4] I'm going to echo the above poster and say the same thing : so what exactly it is that you are proposing ? Keep in mind the fact that trying to limit people to one character per account is next to impossible right now without some pretty damn heavy community backlash, and limiting people to a single account is unenforceable (let alone against CCP recent policy of "here, have a second account at a discount price"). Let me guess : you have absolutely no proposal for a solution, you just "see the problem". Well, we see the problem too, but any of the possible solutions we see are even BIGGER problems. So let's just stick with the smaller problem. _ We are recruiting \| Beginer's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper
Lotus Sutra Caldari Sutra Inc	Posted - 2009.10.21 08:59:00 - [5] I propose CCP limit us to 1 character per account. They give you 30 days to decide which character you want to keep, sell, or transfer to alternate accounts, and the rest get fed to the shredder! ------------------------------------------------ I got married Oct. 18th. I'm on my honeymoon. Yes I brought the laptop. Yes I am playing EVE. What?
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:01:00 - [6] Which is about as likely as supermarkets banning fat people
Jei'son Bladesmith The Storm Knights The Cool Kids Club	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:02:00 - [7] One of my friends has like 5 or 6 accounts and a horrendous number of alts. Makes it easier to keep track of what he's doing by which ones are logged on. "Hey wheres Bryan?" "Oh, he just has freighter alt #2 logged on, he must be AFK autopiloting" or "Ah I see you have mining alt #4 and hauling alt #1 logged on, you must be ice mining" and so on. Yes, like anything it can be abused, I've always thought doing a mission while you have a logistics alt rep you is just plain silly (I'm not saying it isnt effective, just silly), but having alts lets you try multiple paths at once that you wouldn't otherwise be able to considering it can take months to create a specialized character like a cap ship pilot or tech 2 industrialist and such. also when your friends stick spies in other peoples corps and make them go all mad face, and then post a recording of the vent convos on youtube, f'n priceless. DO YOU REALLY WANT TO DEPRIVE THE WORLD OF THAT JOY?!?!
Foraven Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:09:00 - [8] Originally by: Akita T I'm going to echo the above poster and say the same thing : so what exactly it is that you are proposing ? Keep in mind the fact that trying to limit people to one character per account is next to impossible right now without some pretty damn heavy community backlash, and limiting people to a single account is unenforceable (let alone against CCP recent policy of "here, have a second account at a discount price"). Let me guess : you have absolutely no proposal for a solution, you just "see the problem". Well, we see the problem too, but any of the possible solutions we see are even BIGGER problems. So let's just stick with the smaller problem. Alright, what i wanted to know if other players felt it was an issue before i started to propose solutions for it. You are right about the enforcement issue, and i would not want even to try, it would be pointless and probably anger several players. What could make players stick with one, or fewer alts, would be for character to gain something they can't transfer from one character to the next and can only gained while actually spending time playing (ie cannot use scripts to gain it). One thing that comes to my mind is loyalty points. Sure, right now we can grind them doing missions, and theses are easy enough that bots can do them for us. But, LPs, unlike ISKs can't flow between players, they belong to the character that generated them. So i think that expending the use of LPs could greatly help the game, especially if social game activities like helping your corp and doing mission in team would generate them better than solo play. I did a post in the suggestion forum in wich i had several ideas about lPs (but also about bounties). here the link : http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1200713
Melor Rend	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:15:00 - [9] Easy solution: don't invite people into your corp without getting at least their limited (or even full) API key. Then you can check who's who and who is getting ISK from what character. I would have though that any serious corp already does this.
Lotus Sutra Caldari Sutra Inc	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:17:00 - [10] Originally by: Melor Rend Easy solution: don't invite people into your corp without getting at least their limited (or even full) API key. Then you can check who's who and who is getting ISK from what character. I would have though that any serious corp already does this. I wouldn't trust GOD with my limited API key, what makes you think I'd give it to some Player Corp? ------------------------------------------------ I got married Oct. 18th. I'm on my honeymoon. Yes I brought the laptop. Yes I am playing EVE. What?
Slightly Green	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:21:00 - [11] If it's that big a problem... easy Solution... when looking at a player's Bio, simply list the other two characters on the account as well. People still get to keep their alts... it's just now known who's associated with who. S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iv5lCuv1w8
Foraven Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:21:00 - [12] Originally by: Jei'son Bladesmith DO YOU REALLY WANT TO DEPRIVE THE WORLD OF THAT JOY?!?! Without a doubt i would . Seriously though, some reward to stick with one character to the bitter end would greatly help the issue. Of course, the problem is making it harder to earn it while "multi-tasking".
Foraven Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Slightly Green If it's that big a problem... easy Solution... when looking at a player's Bio, simply list the other two characters on the account as well. People still get to keep their alts... it's just now known who's associated with who. S. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iv5lCuv1w8 Doesn't fix any issues related to alts besides knowing who is who (and that can be very hard to keep track off all of them). The Broker is everywhere . (reference to the EVE book)
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:28:00 - [14] Originally by: Slightly Green People still get to keep their alts... it's just now known who's associated with who. Alt's are not a problem Alt Accounts could be - and you can never stop them, so I suggest allowing more Character's on each account, -- 3 Titans Lottery EB \| Capital
Melor Rend	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Lotus Sutra Originally by: Melor Rend Easy solution: don't invite people into your corp without getting at least their limited (or even full) API key. Then you can check who's who and who is getting ISK from what character. I would have though that any serious corp already does this. I wouldn't trust GOD with my limited API key, what makes you think I'd give it to some Player Corp? Yeah because seeing what characters you have on your account and what skills and total ISK they have is totally a breach of security. Especially because you can just change the key after the player corp have run their background checks. I find any player corp that accepts people without limited (or even full) API key are really careless and deserve to have their assets stolen and their fleets destroyed by spies.
Jekyl Eraser	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:34:00 - [16] Allow players to link all 3 characters into one nickname. Maybe add some benefits doing so. Shared standings, wallet and assets, science and industry slots...
Lotus Sutra Caldari Sutra Inc	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:35:00 - [17] Originally by: Slightly Green If it's that big a problem... easy Solution... when looking at a player's Bio, simply list the other two characters on the account as well. People still get to keep their alts... it's just now known who's associated with who. That only works for characters on THAT account. I have 4 accounts now. 2 active, 2 inactive. 12 characters total. Gonna list all the characters? How are you going to know which accounts are actually mine and which are my wife's? She plays as well. She has 2 of her own accounts. They are her accounts, but I pay for them. Tie them into credit cards? Won't work. Ball of worms. My kid brother plays. I sometimes pay for his accounts when he is short. My credit card, his account. More worms. I am talking with a neighbor to try and get them to play. I might offer to pay for a sub for a couple months for her to see if she would be able to get into the game. Her accounts... my card again. More worms. Can you see where I am heading here? ------------------------------------------------ I got married Oct. 18th. I'm on my honeymoon. Yes I brought the laptop. Yes I am playing EVE. What?
Lotus Sutra Caldari Sutra Inc	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:42:00 - [18] Edited by: Lotus Sutra on 21/10/2009 09:43:06 Originally by: Melor Rend Originally by: Lotus Sutra Originally by: Melor Rend Easy solution: don't invite people into your corp without getting at least their limited (or even full) API key. Then you can check who's who and who is getting ISK from what character. I would have though that any serious corp already does this. I wouldn't trust GOD with my limited API key, what makes you think I'd give it to some Player Corp? Yeah because seeing what characters you have on your account and what skills and total ISK they have is totally a breach of security. Especially because you can just change the key after the player corp have run their background checks. I find any player corp that accepts people without limited (or even full) API key are really careless and deserve to have their assets stolen and their fleets destroyed by spies. It is a total breach of security. MY security. What my characters are, and what their skills are is none of your damn business. That is like me coming into your house and looking through your filing cabinets, underwear drawer and refrigerator to see what you eat, wear and how much money you have in your bank account. I have 3 characters per account, each character is in their own little one man corp. If one character applies and you have my api, you can see who all my characters are and then deny my app and war dec all three of my characters. Been there. Not gonna do that **** again. So yeah. MY SECURITY is more important to me than yours. Don't like it, too bad no player corp is getting my api key. They don't like it, they can stuff themselves up the ass. ------------------------------------------------ I got married Oct. 18th. I'm on my honeymoon. Yes I brought the laptop. Yes I am playing EVE. What?
128th ABC123 Eve Liberation Force Warped Aggression	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:44:00 - [19] Originally by: Lotus Sutra Edited by: Lotus Sutra on 21/10/2009 09:43:06 Originally by: Melor Rend Originally by: Lotus Sutra Originally by: Melor Rend Easy solution: don't invite people into your corp without getting at least their limited (or even full) API key. Then you can check who's who and who is getting ISK from what character. I would have though that any serious corp already does this. I wouldn't trust GOD with my limited API key, what makes you think I'd give it to some Player Corp? Yeah because seeing what characters you have on your account and what skills and total ISK they have is totally a breach of security. Especially because you can just change the key after the player corp have run their background checks. I find any player corp that accepts people without limited (or even full) API key are really careless and deserve to have their assets stolen and their fleets destroyed by spies. It is a total breach of security. MY security. What my characters are, and what their skills are is none of your damn business. That is like me coming into your house and looking through your filing cabinets, underwear drawer and refrigerator to see what you eat, wear and how much money you have in your bank account. I have 3 characters per account, each character is in their own little one man corp. If one character applies and you have my api, you can see who all my characters are and then deny my app and war dec all three of my characters. Been there. Not gonna do that **** again. So yeah. MY SECURITY is more important to me than yours. Don't like it, too bad no player corp is getting my api key. They don't like it, they can stuff themselves up the ass. Thats why you are not in any meaningfull corporation...
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Foraven One thing that comes to my mind is loyalty points. Sure, right now we can grind them doing missions, and theses are easy enough that bots can do them for us. But, LPs, unlike ISKs can't flow between players, they belong to the character that generated them. And what exactly would you propose these LPs could do for a character that CAN'T already be acheived by spending ISK ? Because if all these LPs do is something you can do with ISK, you acheived absolutely nothing. And if those LPs can do something that ISK can't do, you're going to also have a backlash from people "who can't be bothered to grind missions". It's another dead end, seriously. _ We are recruiting \| Beginer's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper
Lotus Sutra Caldari Sutra Inc	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:53:00 - [21] Originally by: 128th ABC123 That's why you are not in any meaningful corporation... You haven't read my posts. EVE is not a place that fosters trust. I don't trust you. You could be my best real life friend sitting 4 feet from me playing the same game, and I wouldn't trust you in eve. There isn't a single person in eve I trust. YOU are not trust worthy. THEY are not trust worthy. CCP isn't trust worthy. That is how EVE was made. Trust nobody. Always expect the knife in the back. You won't be disappointed. ------------------------------------------------ I got married Oct. 18th. I'm on my honeymoon. Yes I brought the laptop. Yes I am playing EVE. What?
Foraven Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:54:00 - [22] Lotus Sutra : Question to you. Why do you have so many accounts and what would make you stick to fewer, if not one character? I mean, if there was something gained from playing with one character that could not be gained while playing multiple at once, would you prefer run less alts?
Miss Ogynist Hedion University	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Foraven What i want to discuss about is what i find to the a rampant problem. Too many players use alts on a regular basis, for specialized purposes, for alternate income, to circumvent game mechanics, to play on several corp or fool other players... I believe it degrade the game because the choice and actions players make have less meaning, and it's more difficult to have online friends if they spread their time on several alts all over the game world. This also make game balance totally whacked when so much grinding is happening and isks just flow like water between players and alts. What do you think? If you get rid of alts then you're effectively getting rid of a sizeable percentage of CCP's subscription income. You're an idiot.
His Alt	Posted - 2009.10.21 10:01:00 - [24] Post with your main!
Myra2007 Shafrak Industries	Posted - 2009.10.21 10:04:00 - [25] Well yes of course it does constitute a flaw. But you can't change it back from a business perspective. People have invested a lot of time and money into their alt accounts. Could CCP just wipe them? They sure could but would it be economically feasible to do so? Most probably not. Then take into consideration how many aspects of the game apparently are crafted in a way to ensure you will want to bring alts or friends. Repeatedly CCP has offered discounts for a second (=alt) account. So, do I think eve could be a better game without alts? Yes, but frankly the horse is buried and has completely decomposed. At this point in time the best thing one could hope for is a game mechanic for finding alts of certain players. That would have to be a pretty clever thing to also allow a player to hide his tracks though. Not gonna happen really (just as futile as fixing the bounty system - however noble the cause is) and at the end of the day character transfers would make it obsolete anyway imo. -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach	Posted - 2009.10.21 10:07:00 - [26] Originally by: Lotus Sutra It is a total breach of security. MY security. What my characters are, and what their skills are is none of your damn business. That is like me coming into your house and looking through your filing cabinets, underwear drawer and refrigerator to see what you eat, wear and how much money you have in your bank account. No it is not. It is like you future employeer doing a background check. Originally by: Lotus Sutra Originally by: 128th ABC123 That's why you are not in any meaningful corporation... You haven't read my posts. EVE is not a place that fosters trust. I don't trust you. You could be my best real life friend sitting 4 feet from me playing the same game, and I wouldn't trust you in eve. There isn't a single person in eve I trust. YOU are not trust worthy. THEY are not trust worthy. CCP isn't trust worthy. That is how EVE was made. Trust nobody. Always expect the knife in the back. You won't be disappointed. I know where you are coming from but that is just a little extreme. Maybe I have been lucky so far, but that opinion is just sad because if you are maried it is safe to say that your wife is one of your best friends and I assume that she sits at least 4ft from you when you are playing. Slade Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat! ≡v≡
Lotus Sutra Caldari Sutra Inc	Posted - 2009.10.21 10:09:00 - [27] Edited by: Lotus Sutra on 21/10/2009 10:15:37 Originally by: Foraven Lotus Sutra : Question to you. Why do you have so many accounts and what would make you stick to fewer, if not one character? I mean, if there was something gained from playing with one character that could not be gained while playing multiple at once, would you prefer run less alts? That is a good question. It boils down to one simple dynamic. Trust. The fact that I don't trust other players because of HOW the EVE universe is designed, has forced me to run multiple accounts and characters to accomplish doing the things I want to do. Why? Because I can't trust that other players will be honest. ONE of several example's that happened to me on another character. I was in a player corp. Seemed a bunch of really great guys. We got along pretty damn good. I ran with them for about 6 months, we had great fun doing lowsec/nullsec roams etc. Anytime someone needed a hand, I was one of the first to raise my hand and say ready and willing. Almost never asked for help myself except for fitting questions. Anyway... I had accumulated a good number of ships, and needed to move them so I asked one of the directors in the corp that flew an Obelisk if he would help me move the ships. He said sure. We met up and I transferred the ships to him. The next thing I know, I'm kicked from the corp. I sent a message to the CEO asking what happened and he said I was a noob and thanks for the ships. So the issue boils down to trust. I can't trust other players to be straight and honest. So unless/until a game mechanic was introduced that would foster the ability to trust, I run multiple accounts and get my pew pew on solo for the most part. Unfortunately, any game mechanic I can think of that would help to foster trust, would break the game. It's 3am here so if I am not making much sense, blame it on me being only 1/2 awake. Originally by: Slade Trillgon No it is not. It is like you future employeer doing a background check. Maybe, but I still mistrust it. Originally by: Slade Trillgon I know where you are coming from but that is just a little extreme. Maybe I have been lucky so far, but that opinion is just sad because if you are maried it is safe to say that your wife is one of your best friends and I assume that she sits at least 4ft from you when you are playing. Slade Actually, as much as I love and trust my wife in life, I don't trust her in game. She does have eve accounts. She is a low-sec pirate. Trust me when I say this, when I her path out where she hangs around, she tries to kill me. I wouldn't have it any other way , it spices up things when we go to bed! lol. ------------------------------------------------ I got married Oct. 18th. I'm on my honeymoon. Yes I brought the laptop. Yes I am playing EVE. What?
Bruno George	Posted - 2009.10.21 10:12:00 - [28] Here is a simple solution that CCP should brng ingame. Create a new tab in Character beside Bio Tab. "ALT BIO" Every character on that account and character made and biomassed is shown in "ALT BIO" tab, here is the catch you can only view the members alt bio if you are in the members corp. That is my solution for what its worth. I use alts, everyone does. It is pretty much main account, industry account, and for some spy and scammer account.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.10.21 10:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Lotus Sutra I was in a player corp. Seemed a bunch of really great guys. We got along pretty damn good. I ran with them for about 6 months, we had great fun doing lowsec/nullsec roams etc. Anytime someone needed a hand, I was one of the first to raise my hand and say ready and willing. Almost never asked for help myself except for fitting questions. Anyway... I had accumulated a good number of ships, and needed to move them so I asked one of the directors in the corp that flew an Obelisk if he would help me move the ships. He said sure. We met up and I transferred the ships to him. The next thing I know, I'm kicked from the corp. While that indeed sucks, not every corporation wants your API key and not every person in Eve is out to get you. It's just a matter of finding the right corporation. So I'll ask for the benefit of the thread and your good replies, what would you do if you were in a corp of people that trusted you and you were comfortable trusting them back? Would you use alts then if you could achieve the same goal through teamwork (meaning less work for you?) www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.eohpoker.com ò Buy a GTC
Lotus Sutra Caldari Sutra Inc	Posted - 2009.10.21 10:20:00 - [30] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Originally by: Lotus Sutra I was in a player corp. Seemed a bunch of really great guys. We got along pretty damn good. I ran with them for about 6 months, we had great fun doing lowsec/nullsec roams etc. Anytime someone needed a hand, I was one of the first to raise my hand and say ready and willing. Almost never asked for help myself except for fitting questions. Anyway... I had accumulated a good number of ships, and needed to move them so I asked one of the directors in the corp that flew an Obelisk if he would help me move the ships. He said sure. We met up and I transferred the ships to him. The next thing I know, I'm kicked from the corp. While that indeed sucks, not every corporation wants your API key and not every person in Eve is out to get you. It's just a matter of finding the right corporation. So I'll ask for the benefit of the thread and your good replies, what would you do if you were in a corp of people that trusted you and you were comfortable trusting them back? Would you use alts then if you could achieve the same goal through teamwork (meaning less work for you?) If that were the case, I would most likely bring the alts into the corp so the corp could benefit from all their skills (or offer their abilities to the corp if standings were an issue). I would tend to play only one character, and the others would then be relegated to mere support roles. It is possible that eventually I would even just shut the accounts down as they wouldn't be needed any longer. Don't get me wrong. I don't TRUST anyone in eve. That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to. ------------------------------------------------ I got married Oct. 18th. I'm on my honeymoon. Yes I brought the laptop. Yes I am playing EVE. What?

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