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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.10.22 10:36:00 -
[1]
Hello,
Is this true? c/d
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Haxfar Portlaind
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Posted - 2009.10.22 10:39:00 -
[2]
Seems mostly as a "look how bad that game is, and how shiny mine is!"
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.10.22 10:39:00 -
[3]
duno for sure , but i think theres something seriously wrong with lighting , the new planets glows like they were suns.
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Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.22 10:59:00 -
[4]
I'm sorry, what?
I can't...
...hear his whining...
...over the sound...
...of how ****ing awesome...
...and visually stunning...
...Eve Online...
...happens to be...
...with a good...
...set of hardware.
I also challenge him to do better...
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:05:00 -
[5]
Your Nyx is on fire.
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Bonny Lee
Caldari
The Guardian Agency
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:08:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Bonny Lee on 22/10/2009 11:08:43
Lets look if JGE can handle a 50 man fight without lagging.
EvE isnt a Arcade-Shooter and so the gfx fits.
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Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:13:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Kuolematon
Hello,
Is this true? c/d
Work it out for yourself.
Shilling a game is so last year by the way.
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Roman
tr0pa de elite
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:20:00 -
[8]
I don't really know what this thread is about.
But as someone who models in 3D, and does texturing, i can tell you the EVE Models are pretty low poly, and actually the textures are pretty poor. CCP does a great job using light maps and bump/normal maps to get them looking good.
If you actually spend any time inspecting the maps, they aren't really very good.
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Neamus
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:21:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Neamus on 22/10/2009 11:26:04
Consider the source of the criticism, then log in to EvE on a decent PC and see that its a lie. Followed shortly be the realisation that "Tikigod" has no genitals.
The point of whether the models and textures of are a high quality or not is irrelevant, its the finished product and over all look that counts, and imo it looks pretty spiffy.
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Roman
I don't really know what this thread is about.
But as someone who models in 3D, and does texturing, i can tell you...
If you indeed do then you also know that the more poly's and the higher the texture detail is, the more things will bog down.
You try rendering on your pc a 300 man fleet highly detailed (BSG like) with 2400 x 2400 maps. Now start animating that. 
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Jhagiti Tyran
Mortis Angelus
BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:26:00 -
[11]
The most amazing thing there is that they have such a **** posting arrogant muppet as a community manager if you look at his recent posts they are all vitriol and bitterness.
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:29:00 -
[12]
Coming from a guy whos game has not even been truely tested 
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:34:00 -
[13]
imo doesn't matter if it's true or not, it looks good in the end and that's all that matters to me, if they bloom the crap outta missing textures and sharp edges they got my approval as long as the end result is good.
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Nyxster
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Roman
I don't really know what this thread is about.
But as someone who models in 3D, and does texturing, i can tell you the EVE Models are pretty low poly, and actually the textures are pretty poor. CCP does a great job using light maps and bump/normal maps to get them looking good.
If you actually spend any time inspecting the maps, they aren't really very good.
Thats because there is a big difference between designing and rendering a 3DS/Maya show-object and numerous instanced 3D components for a video game. XBOX/PS3's can afford to sling high-res graphics around because they have dedicated hardware routines that the coders can test, Eve was and has always been designed to allow people even with older machines and low spec graphics cards enjoy the game as much as those with 3K gigwatsupapwngrafxengines. Since Eve has a big player base in a lot of E.European and other countries, where a high end machine is like a average years wages for most government jobs, the only way you can create a "global" MMo is to accept that you have to balance playability with "shiny".
Also JGE can boast all it wants, we have yet to see a 1000+ fleet battle on a single shard take place, and I hasten to add I can think of a dozen or more games where "shiny" distracted you from how crap the underlying gameplay was, and then epic gameplay from the likes of Elite distracted you from the frankly comic lack of shinyness.
If the best encouragment a JGE "emissary" can think of why we should play it over EVE is its shinyness - then roflcopter have they got big issues ahead in player retention....
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2009.10.22 11:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Verone
I'm sorry, what?
I can't...
...hear his whining...
...over the sound...
...of how ****ing awesome...
...and visually stunning...
...Eve Online...
...happens to be...
...with a good...
...set of hardware.
I also challenge him to do better...
Dear Lord this post would be epic if it wasn't for t he current implementation of the current EVE-O forums. I dont get what the OP's point is though. If it looks ****ing awesome in the end who gives a **** how you got there?
The games graphics are one of the things that got me into it in the first place. I honestly though player made videos where company release promo graphics, imagine my surprise when I found out the game looked that good all the ****ing time. Especially for someone to whom the ****y WoW graphics had always bothered.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Harvey Norman
Indigo Labs
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Posted - 2009.10.22 12:00:00 -
[16]
Coming from a competitor game that post is totally believable.
Losing the sarcasm, if JGE stoops down to the level of bashing other games to make theirs look better, it's quite despicable. If I was in a position to fire that guy, I sure as hell would, he gives the team an overall bad name, just looking at his posts.
It may be true or not, but to me (GTX 285) EVE on super high ultra omgwtfbbq graphics looks pretty orgasmic.
_
Indigo Labs Services Feedback Thread |
James Wilton
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Posted - 2009.10.22 12:02:00 -
[17]
I only have a one say about Jumpgate Evolution...
"I doubt they'll let you fly capital ships or anything bigger/spectacular."
Why you ask?
Imagine trying to control a carrier using your joystick or first person view... Now go figure.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.10.22 12:19:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 22/10/2009 12:19:54
I'll chime in just because I know a thing or two about the Eve graphics. I don't care about JGE and to be honest I am not posting in response to that thread.
Put simply, Eve models suck. They use a lot of shortcuts to hide low detail. Some examples are:
Simulating rounded edges with shadows (look at turrets)
Adding low-detail bump maps to create a sense of volume (see Myrmidon)
Bad culling (see Ion Siege Blaster Cannon)
Awful texture alignment (see Dominix)
Low resolution textures (see anything)
High use of environmental maps ("gloss" is very 1990s)
Ships should be more matted in space than glossy/shiny. Put simply, the ships reflect their environment with so much mirroring, that it's almost disappointing when you fly a ship up next to another ship and you can't see the approaching ship's reflection. Eve uses low resolution meshes and uses abysmal quality textures. Large ships suffer the most from it because I can count the pixels on my Moros.
The culling issue drives me crazy on some ships like the Curse and when looking at the Ion Siege Blaster where you can actually SEE THROUGH parts of the mesh. Big no-no, removes volume completely.
The effects in Eve have in my opinion gotten worse as well. Pulsating effects have been removed with more static effects in an attempt to 'busy' the eve viewing audience, ensuring quick effects that excite the senses rather than visual stimulation to create a more natural visual effect.
Lasers and blasters have had their effects done the worst. Pulse lasers look like snot now and blasters are like, 2 frames of light. It's disappointing to see a game go backwards in effects.
So far we have lost engine trails, drone trails, dynamic turret firing effects [think recoil], cyno effects, decent jump effects (the front-to-back skinning was the coolest), lasers lost their 'pew,' blasters are nigh exciting, and probably the worst of all: explosions now use static particle effects rather than physics-based particle effects.
BORING.
CCP needs to step up their graphics.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2009.10.22 12:20:00 -
[19]
Originally by: James Wilton
I only have a one say about Jumpgate Evolution...
"I doubt they'll let you fly capital ships or anything bigger/spectacular."
Why you ask?
Imagine trying to control a carrier using your joystick or first person view... Now go figure.
Is it a problem that I lol'ed?
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Garr Anders
Minmatar
Thukk U
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Posted - 2009.10.22 12:38:00 -
[20]
Actually, I think the linked post is correct.
The models have a fair low detail, same as some of the textures.
In fact a highly complex BS model isnt much more complex than a simple frigate but the point is:
Resource saving
If you have each ship with x millions of polygons you'll kill every GPU in just a 10 vs 10 small gang fight. By "optimizing" the looks of the ships versus the size of the polygons and keeping a lower texture size but "hiding" it with enviromental effects, it allows a GPU to at least try to draw 400 vs 400 fleet battle fights and still look shiny.
-----
Garr Anders
"The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet.
- referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
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Kazang
Gallente
Wrecking Shots
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Posted - 2009.10.22 12:43:00 -
[21]
Its a question of scaling and performance.
If I game has very high detail textures and models performance will be veyr bad on low end cards with high bandwidth and memory. Whereas lighting is totally scalable and is relatively low cost in performance wise, in the sense that lighting calculations are easier for a low end card than high detail models and textures.
The textures are also quite old and re-texturing is a awful lot of work compared to tweaking lighting and shaders.
Kazang
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Miss Ogynist
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.10.22 12:44:00 -
[22]
I like EVE's graphics. The ship models are fantastically done. But the nebula backgrounds need some love now. They look a bit artifacty and grainy sometimes. Also, more black space please.
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Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.10.22 12:46:00 -
[23]
You will find that the ships do have low poly count , so that it doesn't destroy there machine with such big fights, so the jumpgate guy is correct that they use light textures to give the appearence of nicer looking ships , which they do , but if you have jumpgate with much higher poly counts , only the people which higher end graphic card are only going to be playing this game since when you get so many ships on the screen then they will be watching a slide show.
so jumpgaate can have bigger poly models but if they have a plan to even have a remotely large fight then most people will suffer
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.10.22 12:54:00 -
[24]
I was one of those who was waiting JGE like raising sun and then I found it it's like carebear in space ..
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Sanzorz
Amarr
Mark Of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.10.22 12:59:00 -
[25]
Graphics in EVE are fine. Sure some things could need a refreshing design, but it's not utterly important. Gameplay is better than graphics and always been.
Aside from that then alot really don't care, as many in gangs or fleet battles zoom out and use the tactical overall, and you rarely tend to see alot of ship design, but rather ALOT of gunfire and explosions 
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Warrio
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.10.22 13:13:00 -
[26]
Quote:
-Tikigod-
Jumpgate Evolution Emissary
Fair and balanced.
- |
Erinyes Nazgul
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Posted - 2009.10.22 13:21:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Erinyes Nazgul on 22/10/2009 13:21:09
So when did JGE ship? Oh yeah....it hasn't. Let me know when they have a playable game so I can mock it.
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Hooch Flux
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.22 13:30:00 -
[28]
You know, the CCP devs may have used shortcuts and whatnot to get their graphics, but it looks fine to me.
And in the end, that's all that matters.
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.10.22 13:55:00 -
[29]
For a game that's mostly tactical and somewhat strategic, EVE looks too good.
So what if the models are relatively low-poly, so what if the textures are relatively lowres, so what if the shining and whatnot hides all that ?
I play EVE on lowest settings for texture and shader, shadows, bloom and HDR off, and it still looks damn good.
I would totally play EVE if it had the graphic detail of the first Elite.
Heck, I would probably get more accounts since, hey, I could run dozens of instances flawlessly
_
We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.22 13:57:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Zartanic on 22/10/2009 13:58:47
I think the graphics in this game are very good considering the limitations they have to work to. CCP do have good graphics designers in my opinion. They do take short cuts but that is to ensure smooth gameplay which is more important. I'm sure they will continue to push the graphics as far as they can though.
EDIT: Atika, admit it, you bought EVE thinking it was Excel Online right?
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destinationunreachable
Hello Kitty Fanclub
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Posted - 2009.10.22 14:15:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Zartanic
EDIT: Atika, admit it, you bought EVE thinking it was Excel Online right?
What it isn't ?
to be honest I only look at the ships when station spinning, otherwise even (or especially) in PVP there is the grid, the capcitor, the modules, the shield/amor status to look at...
Quiet honestly I don't think anyone has time to see the graphics, they could turn it off and I would see a difference.
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ShadowMaster
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.22 14:26:00 -
[32]
First thing, I have been playing EVE since 2003 and love it.
I actually have to agree with part of what that gentleman says. The models and textures are actually pretty bad, and in a lot of spots. Textures do not line up, the CCP artists seem to put little effort (ok, thats a lie CCP artists are amazing, blame it on management instead) into trying to make parts of ships that are spaced out in UV space match up in the textures. It is most definitely not something that is easy to do, and it takes time, but it is those sort of things that the EVE art is lacking.
Texture density is another thing EVE has an issue with, especially on turrets (I think I saw it on small projectile turrets). If you look at turrets a lot of the time you will see sections of the turret that just seem to have the whole texture applied to it. Not only does that small part of the turret look like **** because its an entire texture applied to one spot, but it really stands out when a small part of the turret has as much texture detail as the entire rest of the gun.
As I am at work I do not have much time to try and find these issues, screenshot them, and post them, but here are a few small examples that I found quickly.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/Untitled1.jpg
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/Untitled2.jpg
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/Untitled3.jpg
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0910/Untitled[2].jpg
The issues highlighted above have nothing to do with the quality you set your graphics to, they are all texture and UV related issues. Again, they are all small things, but for some one like my self who works in the games industry they irk the ****ing **** out of me. Every time I see them I want to smack a CCP employee for it. Then I remember how much hard work it is, how as a designer I can't paint stick figures let alone the art CCP pulls off, and how this happens in EVERY game not just EVE.
So although yes you can do better, it costs money to pay the artists to do it and as you spend more and more time on a single asset you start getting diminishing results for your efforts (skill system anyone?).
Anyways, my point is CCP has their priorities straight (if the art issues bug you blame management). Get the art done to a set level of quality, move on make more stuff.
I will finish this rant by agreeing with something a fine man above said:
Originally by: Chribba
imo doesn't matter if it's true or not, it looks good in the end and that's all that matters to me, if they bloom the crap outta missing textures and sharp edges they got my approval as long as the end result is good.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.10.22 14:27:00 -
[33]
Could people please stop saying low poly and low res textures are fine because they provide smooth gameplay. The techniques to switch from high poly/resolution models to low ones under stress have been around for years.
EVE's model and texture quality leave a lot to be desired. Just think how good the game would look if they were decent and had the kickass lighting on top of it.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Eran Laude
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.10.22 14:38:00 -
[34]
IMHO, for the most part, EVE looks considerably better than any other MMO out there, DX10 Tortage in AoC excluded. Sure, they use shortcuts, but with all the effects turned on and running off of a decent rig, EVE looks stunning to say the least. Frankly, Jumpgate looks like ****, so the poster referenced in the OP should look to his own game first in critiquing graphical fidelity.
DX11 client please. :)
-----
Originally by: "CCP Whisper"
Boo hoo. Cry some more.
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RabbidFerret
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.10.22 14:53:00 -
[35]
I followed the JGE forums for a while. The poster, Tikigod, spends every second of his life on those forums and he is an ungodly ***** that spews nonsense at the very mention of Eve. My guess is that he is the stick figure hanging in the noose on that ever famous MMO learning curve graph.
And regardless of the ways that Eve goes about making its graphics, the ship models look a hell of a lot better then JGE.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:24:00 -
[36]
EVE has graphics? 
/me checks graphics settings ... everything low - check ok! All is well |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:30:00 -
[37]
EVEs approach looks good while you play - thats all that matters.
I think more game designers should think like CCp really. Look at the way the human eye and brain work. We dont analyze the textures of most of the stuff we "see" in fact.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Abbadon
Caldari
Pukin' Dogs
D0GMA
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:35:00 -
[38]
I thought i would share my reply to an Eve comment that was posted on a JGE fan site:
Quote:
#
Ambrosius says:
September 11, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Scordite is for Eve w**kers. There is no scordite for REAL spaceship pilots!
#
Abbadon says:
September 18, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Playing the game is for Eve w**kers. There is no game for BETA spaceship pilots!
fixed your post :D
/Quote
I think that just about sums it up!
.
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Jarna
Amarr
Eternal Frontier
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Eran Laude
IMHO, for the most part, EVE looks considerably better than any other MMO out there, DX10 Tortage in AoC excluded. Sure, they use shortcuts, but with all the effects turned on and running off of a decent rig, EVE looks stunning to say the least. Frankly, Jumpgate looks like ****, so the poster referenced in the OP should look to his own game first in critiquing graphical fidelity.
DX11 client please. :)
I wouldn't say considerably better. But you also have to factor in that there aren't nearly as many models in EVE that other games have. They should look better due to the mere fact that there aren't as many models they need to work on.
------------------------------
EVE players are just as immature as WoW players. |
Aralieus
Amarr
Traumark Logistics
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:51:00 -
[40]
Hmm, graphics look fine to me....
Verone, I think your right m8, mabye all you need some decent equipment.....
But then again, CCP should alwyas be on their toes when a new wow (in-space) pops up....
You know, just to be on the safe side..
/Sarcasm
To the OP, I'm gonna take a wild guess here and say no
Fortune Favors the Bold!! |
Reiisha
Evolution
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.22 15:57:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Could people please stop saying low poly and low res textures are fine because they provide smooth gameplay. The techniques to switch from high poly/resolution models to low ones under stress have been around for years.
EVE's model and texture quality leave a lot to be desired. Just think how good the game would look if they were decent and had the kickass lighting on top of it.
They've said before Trinity was released that they wanted to reach a high level of detail more through shaders than through geometry and textures perse. It's a design philosophy you can either agree with or not, but they're sticking with it.
That said, there are models in the game which could use some touching up, and cap ships could definately use a higher res texture.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Aarin Wrath
Caldari
Dominion Strategic
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:08:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Reiisha
That said, there are models in the game which could use some touching up, and cap ships could definately use a higher res texture.
Yeah I would second that. A lot of the capital ships are rather low in poly count and could stand a higher-res texture. Alot of the ships could stand to have their textures re-done as well.
What would be nice, if CCP is keeping the status quo due to performance reasons, is release a High Resolution Texture Pack for Eve. So those of us with decent computers can see EVE in better detail.
I really dont think implementing something like that would be a huge undertaking. They probably have the high-res textures already, and just compressed the be-jesus out of them for the client. So they could just slightly compress them, and tell the client to look at the different textures. Of course this all depends on how CCP implemented textures resources their engine. 
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Akita T
For a game that's mostly tactical and somewhat strategic, EVE looks too good.
So what if the models are relatively low-poly, so what if the textures are relatively lowres, so what if the shining and whatnot hides all that ?
I play EVE on lowest settings for texture and shader, shadows, bloom and HDR off, and it still looks damn good.
I would totally play EVE if it had the graphic detail of the first Elite.
Heck, I would probably get more accounts since, hey, I could run dozens of instances flawlessly
an ultra light client would be so ****ing fantastic.
I wish we could disable loading ships graphics, much like we can with drones 
(although honestly I wish it was disable "other" drones so you can see your own, kinda useful to know where your drones are shooting without having to lock every target, stupid sentry drones)
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Ritzenhoff
Gallente
Amaterasu Industries Inc
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
It's disappointing to see a game go backwards in effects.
So far we have lost engine trails, drone trails, dynamic turret firing effects [think recoil], cyno effects, decent jump effects (the front-to-back skinning was the coolest), lasers lost their 'pew,' blasters are nigh exciting, and probably the worst of all: explosions now use static particle effects rather than physics-based particle effects.
BORING.
CCP needs to step up their graphics.
CCP needs to have 300+ fleet battles. You would like better graphics.
If you'll pardon the pun, the graphics do not exist in a vacuum, and tbh it pleases me that CCP puts gameplay first and graphics second.
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kuolematon
Your Nyx is on fire.
Ooooh, we don't need no water let the motherfu...
Originally by: Hamshoe
Don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ritzenhoff
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
It's disappointing to see a game go backwards in effects.
So far we have lost engine trails, drone trails, dynamic turret firing effects [think recoil], cyno effects, decent jump effects (the front-to-back skinning was the coolest), lasers lost their 'pew,' blasters are nigh exciting, and probably the worst of all: explosions now use static particle effects rather than physics-based particle effects.
BORING.
CCP needs to step up their graphics.
CCP needs to have 300+ fleet battles. You would like better graphics.
If you'll pardon the pun, the graphics do not exist in a vacuum, and tbh it pleases me that CCP puts gameplay first and graphics second.
Quality graphics aren't the bottleneck in 300+ fleet battles, server performance is.
...
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Seriah Rezin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:29:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Verone
I'm sorry, what?
I can't...
...hear his whining...
...over the sound...
...of how ****ing awesome...
...and visually stunning...
...Eve Online...
...happens to be...
...with a good...
...set of hardware.
I also challenge him to do better...
My only critique of this - and this is a great post - is that the '...set of hardware' link should've led to a picture of a nice computer rig. Otherwise? Beautiful.
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Jalson
Amarr
Blueprint Haus
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:38:00 -
[48]
I didn't read thru all the replies.....but who cares what someone has to say who's coming from a game that doesn't seem to be able to get released. I mean come on....they've been constently delaying that game for almost 2 years now.
Of course you are going to be able to downplay the gfx of a game THAT ALREADY EXISTS you have all the time in the world to make yours better....just delay the release again.
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:49:00 -
[49]
The backside of a rupture is a better example...actually zoom in on any part of a rupture...
In the end who cares? How often do you find yourself zoomed as far in as possible on your ship and staring at it?
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.10.22 16:51:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Razin
graphics aren't the only bottleneck in 300+ fleet battles
Fixed that for ya.
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Ordais
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Posted - 2009.10.22 17:00:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Ordais on 22/10/2009 17:03:18
Edited by: Ordais on 22/10/2009 17:01:17
man, everyone here saying "but its because of performance" please just shut up? There are easy ways to control that (called LODs) and have been around for ages. The "switch" comes at a cost, but we don't have high-density scenarios here. If you zoom in to look at a ship normally no other ship is closer then a few km anyway, meaning you can put a whole lot of detail in a model if you want.
We have seen high-poly ship-models from ccp (render shots), so we know they have them. It would just be a matter of implementing them so that if you get close the detail comes into view.
Capital ships suffer the most from this. Just zoom in on one. And yes, i play everything on max. Even on the posted screenshots here you can see how low-res the texture on the Nyx is (you can see pixles).
There is room for improvement, and in a few years they will update them again.
P.S. i'm also very disapointed with the new "effects", they are too subtle and generic now. They lost functionality.
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brutoid
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.22 17:29:00 -
[52]
Has everyone seen 'The Butterfly Effect' video? I'd say CCP are proud of that one.
Anyone else notice the amount of touching up they did in post-production? Makes me think that they realise that graphics need updating too.
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Vanderie
Amarr
Ignatium.
Aggressive Dissonance
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Posted - 2009.10.22 17:43:00 -
[53]
Originally by: brutoid
Has everyone seen 'The Butterfly Effect' video? I'd say CCP are proud of that one.
Anyone else notice the amount of touching up they did in post-production? Makes me think that they realise that graphics need updating too.
They probably were using the non-scaled down textures; remember, CCP has to lower the polycount for the live server so that people with older systems can actually play. Sure they could bump up the polycount, but then we'd be looking at a 20gb install (maybe more) and no-one with a lower range computer would be able to play without freezing every time they loaded a ship texture.
-Van
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2009.10.22 18:16:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
So far we have lost engine trails, drone trails, dynamic turret firing effects [think recoil], cyno effects, decent jump effects (the front-to-back skinning was the coolest), lasers lost their 'pew,' blasters are nigh exciting, and probably the worst of all: explosions now use static particle effects rather than physics-based particle effects.
I miss engine trails the most. The way something would leave streaks in space when it warped off or dropped out of warp was fantastic.
And confirming that the front-to-back skinning on jumping (and all cloaking) was awesome.
Of course the game still looks great but I have to side with siig, a number of the effects have taken a step backwards.
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Greg DaimYo
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2009.10.22 18:45:00 -
[55]
Eve has graphics?
Seriously, I hardly see space because my screens are usually cluttered by different interfaces that need a lot more of my attention.
Went on Sisi the day the new background was patched there. After three minutes of looking at them, I didn't realise anymore that they updated something.
I totally don't care about graphics in a game and I am under the impression most Online-Gamers don't. This has an extra-strong point in situations where you want to minimize the occurance of client-side lag, making it mandatory to switch off all effects, like in larger fleet-fights. I usually forget to turn them back on afterwards.
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Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.10.22 18:59:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 22/10/2009 19:01:06
I would say the name of thread the OP pulled that from pretty much says it all.
Thread: Are the US forums as dead as ours ?
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If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2009.10.22 19:55:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kuolematon
Is this true? c/d
Is what true exactly? The JGE shill isn't saying Eve doesn't look great, he's saying that he doesn't approve of the methods used to achieve that look even though his own game uses similar tricks. (Or will use similar tricks if and when it's released.)
When challenged to provide an example of game with superior appearance, well... further affiant sayeth naught, so I'm not sure what it is we are to confirm or deny.
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Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.10.22 20:25:00 -
[58]
No MMO in existence even comes remotely close to Age of Conan with DX10 and a high end graphics hard.
The visuals in Age of Conan are so mind blowing that I've often found myself just walking around and taking screenshots.
That being said, they can't get 50 people fighting in one spot without without the zone crashing, so there's something to be said for low polygon count coupled with a really good use of lighting and shadows.
Like a few other people have said, EVE is text based game that just happens to have graphics. I could literally play all day without ever looking at my ship... even in PVP.
---------------------------------
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Seriah Rezin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.22 20:30:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
Like a few other people have said, EVE is text based game that just happens to have graphics. I could literally play all day without ever looking at my ship... even in PVP.
I would love to see someone make an indy game based on that premise: A text-based EVE.
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Night Epoch
Distant Light Galactic
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2009.10.22 20:33:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Night Epoch on 22/10/2009 20:36:16
I run EVE at 1900x1220 at full graphics/hdr/bloom and it's a f*cking stunning looking game. Absolutely one of the best looking MMOs out there.
That the ships themselves are highly reflective of their environment doesn't bother me at all - it all looks bloody Ace so I don't care how it's done.
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Zan Valis
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Posted - 2009.10.23 16:45:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Zan Valis on 23/10/2009 16:46:42
EVE is beautifull, probably one of the prettiest games Ive ever played and to boot its the most in-depth game Ive ever played. Having both of those in one game is rare, and thats what makes EVE so great. I agree with most others here, I could care less how the graphics are actually done, if it looks good then great, thats what graphics are.. looks.
I find that persons comments extremely unprofessional to say the least, its one thing from a fan, its another from a Dev. Further to that, if you need to slag a game thats been around for 7 years to make yours (which hasent even been released yet) look good then you're off to a very bad start...
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.10.23 17:09:00 -
[62]
A lot of models in EVE have crappy textures and jaggies, but not because of the model mesh. Their normal maps are just really low resolution. I think they fixed most of the problems with Apocrypha though.
EVE's biggest graphical issue is the wide spectrum of quality stuff falls onto. You have assets that look as good as any modern game, and assets that should go back to the decade they belong to.
However, JGE isn't really the game to criticize EVE for graphics. Black Prophecy is the game that make EVE look grey and old.
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Skippermonkey
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Posted - 2009.10.23 17:11:00 -
[63]
Is there a way to stop the sun from blinding the view whenever you are looking at something infront of it?
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Illwill Bill
Svea Rike
The Council.
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Posted - 2009.10.23 17:17:00 -
[64]
EVE uses crappy models, shoddy textures, short-cuts, and cheats to produce a good visual experience. The result is frackin' awesome!
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Julien Olivier
The Society for Creative Euthanasia
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Posted - 2009.10.23 17:46:00 -
[65]
nit+pick+ing (ntpkng)
n.
Minute, trivial, unnecessary, and unjustified criticism or faultfinding.
-x-
Eve looks gorgeous. Ask me if i care how they accomplish it.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.10.23 18:17:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Skippermonkey
Is there a way to stop the sun from blinding the view whenever you are looking at something infront of it?
I do agree that certain aspect of Eve's graphics are, well, damned annoying. Suns and nebulae make swaths of space so bright that you can't see some of the UI elements. You'd think that if I was going to have a computer pump visual information directly into my brain somewhere in the system there would be control. If not content control (as in a turn-off-those-nebulae switch) then at least a brightness control. It's a bit silly that I would ever have to turn the camera away, looking for an angle that would let me find some button or read something.
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Jekyl Eraser
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Posted - 2009.10.23 18:19:00 -
[67]
Yeah agree EVE graphics are kinda messed up and low quality. Not as messed up as the sounds, but the worst is user friendliness in every aspect from graphics to sounds to the UI.
But i don't think focusing into graphics is the way to go if you plan on making a good game as a long term plan. You need to update the graphics every 3 years to keep players happy. You won't even see the ships that much for the graphics to matter.
I'm guessing Dust 514 took the eve graphics team for 3 years. Think they took 75% of our monthly payments too to develop a console game.
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Zahidra
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.10.23 18:51:00 -
[68]
Im no 3d expert in the sense of knowing a good mesh when i look at one, but i do think the result is what counts and eve has very nice results considering the rather low system reqs.
Im always in favor of cooler looking graphics, but for a game like eve there needs to be a good balance between performance and bling.
I currently run 3 clients with everything but shadows turned on at full HD res (granted, only 2 clients are being rendered at any given time due to 2 monitor limit) on a 4830 card that cost me about 100Ç 8 months ago.
Id say thats a pretty good accomplishment considering the low budget card and how good the game looks.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.10.23 20:14:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 23/10/2009 20:20:08
Eve is laden with crappy textures, seams, spots of blurriness, jagged bump maps, lazy artistry, and flat-out errors. Just look at the front or side of a standard Dominix, the back end of a Falcon, just about any ship with symmetry (the front of the Erebus is a good example, and so's the Hyperion), turret placement on many ships, etc.
It's massively annoying, especially when they were at one point given awards for how good their stuff looked. Maybe once Dust is done they can bring back their good artists.
(EDIT: Oh yeah, how could I forget sprite effects? Stuff like ECCM and certain gas clouds being a sprite that always faces you got old with DOOM! Why the heck is it still being used close to 2010?!)
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Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.23 21:02:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Seriah Rezin
Originally by: Verone
I'm sorry, what?
I can't...
...hear his whining...
...over the sound...
...of how ****ing awesome...
...and visually stunning...
...Eve Online...
...happens to be...
...with a good...
...set of hardware.
I also challenge him to do better...
My only critique of this - and this is a great post - is that the '...set of hardware' link should've led to a picture of a nice computer rig. Otherwise? Beautiful.
lol sure... although I'm ashamed to say...
I have...
...the world's...
...most tidy...
...computer desk.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
ceaon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.23 22:14:00 -
[71]
Originally by: ShadowMaster
stuff
you should really press ALT when you make a screen capture just saying |
Ferdio Ricotez
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.23 22:50:00 -
[72]
Being a frequent miner, I often find myself staring at my Hulk for extensive periods of time. And dang, I have taken some beautiful screenshots.
You can say what you want about the mirror polish, but it's really what sets the graphics of EVE apart from other MMOs out there. I for one think it's gorgeous, my screenshots of EVE have a level of beauty I haven't seen in many screenshots of other games.
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Gallente flying Minmatar - A Podlog |
SEN 5243
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Posted - 2009.10.23 22:51:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Verone
I'm sorry, what?
I can't...
...hear his whining...
...over the sound...
...of how ****ing awesome...
...and visually stunning...
...Eve Online...
...happens to be...
...with a good...
...set of hardware.
I also challenge him to do better...
sweet
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fuze
Gallente
Quam Singulari
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.10.23 23:11:00 -
[74]
Even if Eve would be just wireframes it would look good enough to me.
Computer GFX got way to fancy after Amiga's bouncing ball anyway.
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Pudnucker
Boennerup Banden
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Posted - 2009.10.23 23:30:00 -
[75]
I see a lot of "I know exactly what the graphics should look like and they are FAIL since I once sat next to a guy who used MAYA and therefore I know this" type comments but little practical knowledge on the way that game designers are forced to operate.
I have practical knowledge on the way that game designers operate and will most graciously share it with you.
 Practical PC Requirements:
If you're making a game, starting today, you would go out and buy the best PC available and use it as the basis for your minimum system requirements.
Why? Because when your game is finished three years later the system that was once top notch is now the average system of the majority of the market that you're aiming at.
What does this mean? It means that the graphics you're seeing are, with few exceptions, the best visuals available at a reasonable frame rate on the highest end system available three years ago. What, you thought that it only took them two months to code the shiny new DX9 Engine and subsequent shiny new Engine improvements?
The Lowest Common Denominator.
If you're cheap, like me, and only spend money on PC gear when it's absolutely necessary then you'll certainly appreciate the fact that each ship model doesn't have 150,000 polygons AFTER normal mapping has been applied. When I earned my Degree in Visual Arts and Multimedia, it was in the first week that we learned that yes, prettier is better but it sure as hell isn't super-duper applicable to the very people you want to sell your game to.
Thus spake the majority of people who play games.
The Modelling Maxim
Make the prettiest looking models possible with the highest resolution textures possible and ensure that it runs at the highest frame rate possible on the 'oldest' equipment possible.
Total and utter Epic Fail for those who thought otherwise in re the three points outlined here.
Originally by: Copine Callmeknau
PROJECTILE WEAPONS ARE CORPSE LAUNCHERS!
LASERS ARE SOUL CANNONS!
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.10.24 00:01:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Zeba on 24/10/2009 00:02:54
The 'problem' with eves textures is not really the quality of the texture but the fact the zoom level is faaar too close for the majority of ships making even a very nice resolution texture look blurry and jaggy. Poor QA on the part of the graphics dept really though to be fair thats a crapload of ships to go though to test the up close view distances. Bad side effect of using sprints for developing nearly everything maybe?
Quote:
[03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA
[03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING
Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.10.24 00:51:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 24/10/2009 00:51:46
Originally by: Pudnucker
I see a lot of "I know exactly what the graphics should look like and they are FAIL since I once sat next to a guy who used MAYA and therefore I know this" type comments but little practical knowledge on the way that game designers are forced to operate.
...
Total and utter Epic Fail for those who thought otherwise in re the three points outlined here.
The problem with Eve's graphics, despite your points, is that they are absolutely riddled with quality control issues regardless of what target hardware they use.
I shouldn't see bumpmapped seams in ships, nor should I see obvious crappy mirror-imaging (just about anything symmetric). Textures shouldn't have random blurry spots or screwy parallel lines that aren't (Dominix). Engine trails should match the engines they go with (just about anything). Circular objects should be circular (Providence). Color schemes that are supposed to the same should be the same (Navy Vexor vs new Navy Mega). Bumpmapping details should line up with what they're trying to complement (Blackbird). Bumpmapping details shouldn't be variably jaggy (Megathron). Turrets should be placed where 90% of their firing arc isn't blocked by protrusions (Megathron, etc). See where I'm going with this?
I'd complain less but I've seen free OSS projects get it right - or at the very least not so glaringly bad - not to mention most other games these days. It's the stupid little errors like that which build up and make what could have been good looking graphics with small overhead mediocre.
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Jenni Falorgen
Malevolent Intentions
Dark Solar Empire
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Posted - 2009.10.24 02:16:00 -
[78]
anyone remember that the Abaddon used to have a gaping hole on one of it's belly fins. you could see right through the ship.
they eventually replaced the fins with mini wings/nacelles and it was good.
the GFX on some of the new stuff (orca, T3s) is simply amazing. top notch!
I believe they stated during FF2009 that they will be going back and updating all the GFXs so as to be of similar quality of the new T3s.
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Aeroxe
Minmatar
Ghost Blade Intelligence
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Posted - 2009.10.24 02:27:00 -
[79]
Ok, I believe that I am an average gamer with little to no knowledge of this crap. I will tell you one thing,
WHO CARES! IT LOOKS GOOD! IT'S FUN!
For that matter lets take CCP under a fine tooth, criticize their program endlessly. Then do nothing about it (because we can't) because 90% of us wouldn't qualify for a janitor's job over there. Then let's not at all talk about how we like to criticize a game that we continually pay for month after month.
This is the thread that started this discussion!
A comment was made on the other forum calling it "cheap tricks so the game will also work on older computers". Seems to me that's a good idea. But that's just me looking at it from a marketing POV. More players = more money = longer life span = more depth = more fun...
Sit back and enjoy peeps! There's no other game that can compete with this one.
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Aralieus
Amarr
Traumark Logistics
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Posted - 2009.10.24 03:07:00 -
[80]
I have looked at JGE with a neutral outlook and I must say with all honesty....its crap! It lacks everything that Eve excells at tbh. Yes the graphics of eve could use some tweaking however given the depth of the content compared to JGE it kind of evens out as someone stated in a previous post. I am by no means a wizkid when it comes to graphics or all the technicalities that goes into it, but at no point do I remeber a time that I seen a image in-game and said 'wow, that looks so horrible I'm going to stop playing this fail". JGE has its role in the mmorpg community but from my perspective I would have to say its not in the same leauge or prerogative if you will as eve. Its rather twitchy and looks like it could get very boring very quickly, unlike Eve where it takes smarts and cunning to be succesful or even get recognition. I mean for christs sakes we have mercs . As far as the graphics go, hmm. Well you decide....
JGE
Eve
I for one am going for the one that doesnt just look pretty but has actual meaning and content behind it.
Fortune Favors the Bold!! |
BigBank Hank
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Posted - 2009.10.24 03:26:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Kuolematon
Hello,
Is this true? c/d
GBS^H^H^HGD demands that CCP defend it's honor by immediately implementing AA (in game).
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harogen
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2009.10.24 04:00:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Verone
I'm sorry, what?
I can't...
...hear his whining...
...over the sound...
...of how ****ing awesome...
...and visually stunning...
...Eve Online...
...happens to be...
...with a good...
...set of hardware.
I also challenge him to do better...
erm, are those the best you have 0_o
I think eve looks great, but to their semi defense, a dev said that the eve models are heavily layered. That isn't a bad thing.
----------------------------------------
ohai! :D |
Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.10.24 04:48:00 -
[83]
You guys complain a lot.
Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.10.24 05:32:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Chribba
imo doesn't matter if it's true or not, it looks good in the end and that's all that matters to me, if they bloom the crap outta missing textures and sharp edges they got my approval as long as the end result is good.
this.
Eve needs to be able to show a lot more spaceships on the screen than most games so they can't just stick a million poligons into everything to make it look good the normal way. They have to come up with their own ways that let them do some pretty god damn amazing things while still looking sexy.
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Just a crazy inventor
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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