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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2009.10.28 14:24:00 -
[1]
I've only seen this mentioned in one thread (the one linked in the commonly proposed changes thread), and there it was started as an attempt to be able to buy back some SP from trained skills that were a mistake.
Here is the original thread:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=691664
I'd like to suggest this again, so that it might get some attention. I would of course not suggest the buy back, but I'm in line with the only replier to the topic: Skills can be removed, but no SP will be gained for redistribution. They are lost.
I have a few skills I'd like to remove altogether - for vanity reasons of course. Since skills are injected, it should be possible to eject them again. Simply right-click a skill on the character sheet and select "Remove Skill" with a non-removable confirmation box appearing. Of course there would need to be some logic behind this so that skills which are a prerequisite to another skill cannot be removed.
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Avatoin
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Posted - 2009.10.28 14:27:00 -
[2]
Well if there is no refund for selling skills it doesn't make sense other than for unexperienced players to accidentally remove that battleship skill they worked so hard to get. Not to mention what happens when you lose a skill? Did you hit your head on that specific part of your brain? And why would people really want to get rid of a skill anyway? To make room in that infinitly sized database that is the human mind?
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2009.10.28 14:36:00 -
[3]
Like I said, the reason I'd want a few skills removed is for vanity reasons. It looks better if you i.e. have 10 skills in a category all level 5, than if you have 20 skills in that category of which 10 are level 5 and 10 are level 1. An example could be the Rigging skills in the Mechanic category. I may only use 3 of those rigging skills and the others just clutter up my mechanic region. It would look better if it was just level 4 and 5 skills (the ones I'm using).
As to the explanation on how the skills were removed? Simple: I accessed my brain with the same software/hardware I'm using to inject/train skills and simply chose to remove a skill rather than add a new one. Our mind is just a big hard drive - deleting should be easy.
And if you're worried about new players accidentally removing their battleship skill - don't be. If they've played EVE long enough to have trained Battleship, they understand that their choices are not without risk. Do you want to close off 0.0 or Lowsec systems for anybody below 10 million SP as well to not risk their poor newbie feelings getting hurt?  Besides, there will be a confirmation box.
But I do think you've got a point. And I think that point is that CCP would be spending time fixing characters that have had their skills removed either by a mad girlfriend, a keylogger or by themselves after a joyful evening at the pub.
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Sainna
Minmatar
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2009.10.28 15:03:00 -
[4]
I'd like this feature but I'd prefer to be able to redistribute the SP from the skills I'm removing to other skill(s). For instance, a year ago I trained a few skills to level 5 that I don't even use any more. I'd prefer to get rid of those but gain the SP back so the time it took to train those isn't wasted. |
Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2009.10.28 15:12:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Sainna
I'd like this feature but I'd prefer to be able to redistribute the SP from the skills I'm removing to other skill(s). For instance, a year ago I trained a few skills to level 5 that I don't even use any more. I'd prefer to get rid of those but gain the SP back so the time it took to train those isn't wasted.
This would of course be nice, but I think it's very unbalanced. It would in effect render past choices irrelevant, as you could simply change it later on.
Imagine the Industrial character who redistributes his skill points every weekend for some lowsec PvP fun? Or someone who's been flying Amarr for ages, and once Minmatar/Projectiles get a huge buff, he simply redistributes his skills and is now a dedicated Minmatar pilot.
No, it would be very wrong. But removing skillpoints I have no problem with. It could never be unbalanced to actually delete skills you've trained.
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Sainna
Minmatar
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2009.10.28 15:23:00 -
[6]
Maybe limit it to 3 skills deleted per month, or every two months. Perhaps, once you delete a skill and put that SP to another, you can't change it back? You'd have to train the deleted skill like it was a new skill again. This would put a stop to that "class/ship switching" issue that you mention, which I can agree with as being a potential problem.
Recruitment Thread
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Draco Argen
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Posted - 2009.10.28 15:34:00 -
[7]
You can call it "the Bender option". Likely come in to WIS (Embulation or whatever its called these days)
If you drink too much in the bars you can then choose which skills you are going to loose from the substance abuse 
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2009.10.28 15:40:00 -
[8]
Sainna, in my opinion that's way too complicated. This is a minor "fix" - if it becomes something that will take days to program, then I would no longer want it (I'd prefer the time spent on other EVE-related stuff).
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Sainna
Minmatar
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2009.10.28 16:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Madmi CEO
Sainna, in my opinion that's way too complicated. This is a minor "fix" - if it becomes something that will take days to program, then I would no longer want it (I'd prefer the time spent on other EVE-related stuff).
Okay. o7
I was just looking to add my thoughts on having such a function be for more than just personal cosmetics. |
Tyrantin
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Posted - 2009.10.28 17:11:00 -
[10]
Personally I like the idea! However ot "FIX" the whols scenario of retraining the "Deleted Skill/s, Make it so that it takes longer to "Relearn" them!
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2009.10.28 17:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Sainna
Okay. o7
I was just looking to add my thoughts on having such a function be for more than just personal cosmetics.
Any input is positive. I just don't think (and neither do I hope) that any functionality which would enable people to get back skillpoints from previously trained skills is anything we'll ever see. And I believe that if you did want to make it balanced, it would require loads of programming not to mention special rules which would complicate matters. But a genius idea would be nice :)
Originally by: Tyrantin
Personally I like the idea! However ot "FIX" the whols scenario of retraining the "Deleted Skill/s, Make it so that it takes longer to "Relearn" them!
It shouldn't take longer to re-train a skill if you have deleted it. I assume this is what you mean. If I've spend 2 hours training a skill, and then choose to delete it, it would make no sense if it should take longer to train again should I choose to do so. I've already "wasted" 2 hours of training, which is now down the trash - no need to punish people further.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.10.28 18:42:00 -
[12]
if you dont like a skill... why not just ignore it? maybe at some later point you evaluate the skill and associated features/modules again and start using it. if this should be another run on "i want to redistribute the skill points" then the answer is just NO. well it is no in any case.
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2009.10.28 19:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: darius mclever
if you dont like a skill... why not just ignore it? maybe at some later point you evaluate the skill and associated features/modules again and start using it. if this should be another run on "i want to redistribute the skill points" then the answer is just NO. well it is no in any case.
I'm currently ignoring them. I would prefer if I could remove them altogether - they bother my vision!
And no, I'm not suggesting the skill points can be redistributed. I'm suggesting they can be removed. At a cost if necessary, but definitely not at any benefit except for the aesthetics.
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Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.10.28 19:58:00 -
[14]
We have to take into account other things, like "occasionally" hacked (shared) accounts. I have proposed a skill removal system about 3 years ago, because I hate the fact that I have "Mining" skill - WTH is that good for if I do not mine.
Anyway, back to the point, a skill removal system akin to skill queue - but with 30 day timer. You add skills to the list, wait out your 30 day period and either confirm again with REMOVE ALL, or adjust the the list and remove those that are left.
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2009.10.28 20:42:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Madmi CEO on 28/10/2009 20:42:34
Originally by: Jinx Barker
We have to take into account other things, like "occasionally" hacked (shared) accounts. I have proposed a skill removal system about 3 years ago, because I hate the fact that I have "Mining" skill - WTH is that good for if I do not mine.
Anyway, back to the point, a skill removal system akin to skill queue - but with 30 day timer. You add skills to the list, wait out your 30 day period and either confirm again with REMOVE ALL, or adjust the the list and remove those that are left.
I love that suggestion! It would effectively eliminate any issues with accidentally removing skills.
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Sobon
Caldari
Phantom Squad
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Posted - 2009.10.28 21:40:00 -
[16]
All I can say is... Not this again, useless idea. You've spent the time training the skill, may as well hold onto it, you never know if you might or might not use it all over again. It does not look at all bad having 250 SP in mining, really.
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TQ Server Status: "BLACK HAWK ____"
Does this mean we can expect down time in the near future? |
Jinx Barker
Caldari
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2009.10.29 01:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sobon
All I can say is... Not this again, useless idea. You've spent the time training the skill, may as well hold onto it, you never know if you might or might not use it all over again. It does not look at all bad having 250 SP in mining, really.
Hehhe.. I guess I would agree to disagree. I understand the OP, it is a vanity thing - makes sense to me, but I am sure not to others.
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Casey Windstrom
Nanobots Industries
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Posted - 2009.10.29 01:51:00 -
[18]
Hmn. A possible compromise here... Possibly the ability to hide skills from yourself? If it's trivial to program, I say why not. If it'd require too much work from CCP... Well, there's other things that need love first.
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Wiley Peterson
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Posted - 2009.10.29 01:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Casey Windstrom
Hmn. A possible compromise here... Possibly the ability to hide skills from yourself? If it's trivial to program, I say why not. If it'd require too much work from CCP... Well, there's other things that need love first.
That's just what I was thinking. The issue the OP is having is a cluttered list, not an excess of SP. It would be much better handled with an option in the settings tab to hide skills that you can check.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.10.29 04:02:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sainna
I'd like this feature but I'd prefer to be able to redistribute the SP from the skills I'm removing to other skill(s). For instance, a year ago I trained a few skills to level 5 that I don't even use any more. I'd prefer to get rid of those but gain the SP back so the time it took to train those isn't wasted.
If you used those skills, even once, the time wasn't wasted. And who knows what your priorities will be a year from now. You may be using those skills again.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Alfons Richthofen
Caldari
Die Luftwaffe
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Posted - 2009.10.29 04:13:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Alfons Richthofen on 29/10/2009 04:14:11
I've got an idea, how about a skill filter that would let you choose to only show skills above a certain level, 0-4, in the skills settings tab.
Like;
only show skills above level 0
only show skills above level 1
only show skills above level 2
only show skills above level 3
only show skills above level 4
EDIT: Got rid of above level 5 
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2009.10.29 11:10:00 -
[22]
Hiding skills would be okay I suppose.
But adding functionality to allow for removal of skills really requires a minimum of code. I bet that together with a check for skill dependencies as well as adding the one month queue (as suggested above) it would only take a single developer about a day to program.
Hiding would be okay, but I'd prefer the option to remove them altogether.
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Larinioides cornutus
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Posted - 2009.10.29 12:15:00 -
[23]
Shameless plug to my other thread which offered a feasible solution on this.
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Casey Windstrom
Nanobots Industries
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Posted - 2009.10.29 13:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Madmi CEO
Hiding skills would be okay I suppose.
But adding functionality to allow for removal of skills really requires a minimum of code. I bet that together with a check for skill dependencies as well as adding the one month queue (as suggested above) it would only take a single developer about a day to program.
Hiding would be okay, but I'd prefer the option to remove them altogether.
Hmn. Personally, I think they need to keep the button to rip any chunks of MY brain far, far away from anything else, kthx! : Only one time have I ever accidentally 'trashed' an item I ment to do something else with, but oh gods did it hurt, and was it expensive. I can imagine doing this with a month long skill... <shudder>
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Plave Okice
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.29 13:27:00 -
[25]
I've brought this up in the past and would still support it, not to regain sp at all because I don't agree with that, just the ability to delete skills from the skillsheet.
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2009.10.29 14:07:00 -
[26]
Just out of curiosity, what skills do you want to remove?
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Madmi CEO
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Posted - 2009.10.30 09:52:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Madmi CEO on 30/10/2009 09:55:09
Originally by: Casey Windstrom
Hmn. Personally, I think they need to keep the button to rip any chunks of MY brain far, far away from anything else, kthx! : Only one time have I ever accidentally 'trashed' an item I ment to do something else with, but oh gods did it hurt, and was it expensive. I can imagine doing this with a month long skill... <shudder>
If you look at the suggestion made to add a one-month delay from putting a skill (or more) into the delete-queue before actually being able to confirm the delete then you'd realize that this wouldn't be an issue.
Originally by: Dacryphile
Just out of curiosity, what skills do you want to remove?
From the top of my head, I'd like to remove Frigate Construction, Electronic Superiority Rigging and Drones Rigging.
Originally by: Larinioides cornutus
Shameless plug to my other thread which offered a feasible solution on this.
Will add this to the commonly proposed ideas together with mine. Perhaps make it a permanent suggestion. I like your suggestion - very detailed.
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