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Alfons Richthofen
Caldari
Die Luftwaffe
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Posted - 2009.10.29 09:58:00 -
[1]
My brother just started playing and he was talking about mining barges and how long they would take to train.
I noticed that for him, training to get into a Covetor, with 3/1/2 slots (high to low) and 4,000 cargo, would take 48 days, 5 minutes, 24 seconds. While getting into a Hulk, which has a slot layout of 3/4/2, 8,000 cargo and two strip mining laser bonuses... Would take 49 days, 17h, 55m, 18s...
So why would anyone waste the money on a Covetor when it's inferior in every way to the Hulk and it only takes like 2% more time to get into the Hulk.
The skill requirements for the Covetor are absurd and unreasonable. I'm not even a miner and I think this way, that's how hardcore this mess up is.
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Alistone Malikite
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Posted - 2009.10.29 10:33:00 -
[2]
You can train the Exhumer skill without training mining barge V, but to actually pilot an exhumer requires you have the mining barge V skill trained.
Similarly, you can train the Destroyer skill, but to pilot any racial destroyer you must have their racial frigate skill leveled up to 3...
Its easy to miss at first, but if you use the EVEMON ship browser and set a hulk as your goal it will include both skills...
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Pan Dora
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.10.29 10:56:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Pan Dora on 29/10/2009 11:01:58
 Originally by: Alistone Malikite
You can train the Exhumer skill without training mining barge V, but to actually pilot an exhumer requires you have the mining barge V skill trained.
Similarly, you can train the Destroyer skill, but to pilot any racial destroyer you must have their racial frigate skill leveled up to 3...
Its easy to miss at first, but if you use the EVEMON ship browser and set a hulk as your goal it will include both skills...
/facepalm
Edit:About he topic. Yes, the skill gap between covetor and Hulk its too short. IMO the issue its obvious: biggers equals better for mining barges/exhummer.
_
I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
mchief117
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Posted - 2009.10.29 16:16:00 -
[4]
the main reasion is that while the hulk is top king for mining the covetor is in essence the little brother you use to mine when theres a chance you will pop due to attack , the hulk hp over the covetor is not a large jump. i personaly have lost a hulk to a t3 cruser and it took all of 3 shots. as well it was posted above that the hulk is a T2 ship and any and all t2 ships require lvl5 skill in there hulls class of ships, like how a stealth bomber need frigate lvl 5 , you can get into a bomber days after getting lvl5 asuming you have the correct skills , like you need astrogeology 5 for the hulk etc.
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David Grogan
Gallente
Final Conflict UK
Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2009.10.29 16:50:00 -
[5]
Originally by: mchief117
like you need astrogeology 5 for the hulk etc.
you also need that & level 5 mining barge for getting into a covetor so i dont see your point
SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Misanthra
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Posted - 2009.10.29 17:31:00 -
[6]
Originally by: mchief117
the main reasion is that while the hulk is top king for mining the covetor is in essence the little brother you use to mine when theres a chance you will pop due to attack...
Never thought of it that way but it does make sense. 100mil isk ship a big investment, to properly tank it along with other fittingd, extra on top of that. Covetor don't get the all the bennies of a hulk, also not as deep a loss in case of ganking.
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Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.29 19:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Misanthra
Originally by: mchief117
the main reasion is that while the hulk is top king for mining the covetor is in essence the little brother you use to mine when theres a chance you will pop due to attack...
Never thought of it that way but it does make sense. 100mil isk ship a big investment, to properly tank it along with other fittingd, extra on top of that. Covetor don't get the all the bennies of a hulk, also not as deep a loss in case of ganking.
To put in perspective of ISK loss and how fast a miner can recover:
- In a Covetor I can recover my ship cost, the modules (T1 strips), and its insurance in about two nights of 'casual' Veld/Scord/Plag/Pyrox mining (i.e. about 4 hours). And I'm still at a profit since the insurance covers nearly 100% the hull cost, so actually two hours of mining to 'break even.' This makes it pretty easy to replace in case of a loss, and a good fit for the lone miner who's starting out.
- The Hulk, on the other hand, would take about a week to recover just the hull cost, and insurance only covers about 30% of that (usually enough to cover a set of T2 strips and some crystals). A 'Halada 0.0' set of fittings just makes it that much longer before being at a profit (though the ores you're getting will offset that a bit). Probably used best in mining ops, where fleet boosts are piled on top of Exhumer skill. A lone miner can still operate one, as long as they're willing to run it as a possible loss.
Also - The skill train needed to just fly/mine in a Hulk is vastly different than the one needed to effectively tank and fight back in one. The amount of time/skill I've spent on drones alone is making me consider a cross-train into Gallente.
--A_K
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Zahorite
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Posted - 2009.10.29 20:40:00 -
[8]
The one issue that has bugged me since I started a mining alt is the attributes needed to train exhumer's and mining barges.
Why is Perception and Willpower needed to train exhumer's and mining barges just like any other combat ship?
I'm aware that it falls under the spaceship command series of skills, but not all skills have the same training attributes as the rest of the skills in the same series of skills, for instance take the tier 2 learning skills.
Personally I think that Exhumer's and Mining Barges need to follow the same training attributes as the skills that are needed to train them. It's very annoying to realize that since I speced my character to max Memory and Intelligence that it takes forever to train these two skills. They should be switched to needing the same attributes as mining rather than the same attributes as a combat ship.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.29 20:44:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 29/10/2009 20:44:32
Quote:
Personally I think that Exhumer's and Mining Barges need to follow the same training attributes as the skills that are needed to train them. It's very annoying to realize that since I speced my character to max Memory and Intelligence that it takes forever to train these two skills. They should be switched to needing the same attributes as mining rather than the same attributes as a combat ship.
 There are Int/Mem skills that affect combat ships as well. You need all attributes.
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Raeni Le'sex
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.10.29 21:50:00 -
[10]
Price is a major difference. How many covetor can you buy for the price of 1 hulk?
Truthfully, you should get covetor at lv 4. Lv 5 should be your gateway to tech 2.
Also for your brother, why not get him into a retriever first, skip covetor then go to hulk? If hulk and t2 fittings are too pricey then get a covetor?
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Misanthra
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Posted - 2009.10.30 04:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zahorite
The one issue that has bugged me since I started a mining alt is the attributes needed to train exhumer's and mining barges.
Why is Perception and Willpower needed to train exhumer's and mining barges just like any other combat ship?
I'm aware that it falls under the spaceship command series of skills, but not all skills have the same training attributes as the rest of the skills in the same series of skills, for instance take the tier 2 learning skills.
Personally I think that Exhumer's and Mining Barges need to follow the same training attributes as the skills that are needed to train them. It's very annoying to realize that since I speced my character to max Memory and Intelligence that it takes forever to train these two skills. They should be switched to needing the same attributes as mining rather than the same attributes as a combat ship.
ships require those perception and willpower skills, covertor and hulk are ships...kind of an open and shut case. Just because someone is a mechanical engineer from MIT who can build an efficient high HP car engine, doesn't mean they can drive a car equipped it well enough to not slam into a wall when they compensate improperly for oversteer lol.
Remap is a great tool....but you have to think 6 months to a year out for it. Unless you know your toon will be happy ship spinning in hangars those ships you are qualed for for at least a year to get your free annual remap, killing your perception and wisdom not a good path imo. I have not remapped my miner. Waiting for barge 5 and exhumers 4 (want a hulk, any shield bonus on 100 mil is better than nothing lol). Then nerf all non int and mem skills to boost the hell out of them (even gonna train charisma to 4...to squeeze out the 4 points to give int and mem an extra +2 when split up)
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