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Shak'Rah
Gallente
The Unforgettables
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Posted - 2009.11.02 17:22:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Shak''Rah on 02/11/2009 17:22:27
posted before i typed anything XP will have this set up in a minute
Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and it is better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.11.02 17:34:00 -
[2]
Yes, subsytems are completely worthless and I recommend flying your T3 cruiser with none fitted.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2009.11.02 17:41:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Gypsio III
Yes, subsytems are completely worthless and I recommend flying your T3 cruiser with none fitted.
and if this doesnt make you happy just remember what ccp said about t3 they arent suppose to be better than the specialized t2s. T3 is a jack of all trades ship. It can do many things fairly well by just changing a few mods and subsystems. you can go from( on a tengu anyway) launchers to turrets. from being virtually unstoppable in travel through 0.0 to being able to scan down the hardest sites with ease to running ewar etc etc. hence the name "STRATEGIC CRUISER"
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Col Angus
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Posted - 2009.11.02 22:08:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Shak'Rah
Edited by: Shak''Rah on 02/11/2009 17:35:04...but something nice and new and perhaps useful would be nice.
What's nice and new is that once you are in a strategic cruiser, you can fit a dozen more "ships" in your cargo hold and take them with you anywhere. Subsystems are pretty small volume wise, as are the majority of the associated fittings.
Show me one of the aforementioned ships that can do that?
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Shak'Rah
Gallente
The Unforgettables
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Posted - 2009.11.02 22:19:00 -
[5]
well, i fully understand how great most subsytems are, and how versatile this makes the t3 cruisers; the strategic cruisers. what my point was is that some of the subsystems are relatively useless compared to others, and if there is any reason to even have them when a different ship would do the job 10x better at 1/6th the cost.
such subsystems were: energy parasitic complex, warfare processor, and the adaptive augmentor. the boni provided by these ss's is pathetic when compared to the ships that actually make real good use out of the modules these would affect. the curse/pilgrim, the damnation/absolution, and the guardian, respectively. is it even worth it to buy these ss's when, if you are in a t3 cruiser, you can obviously use the t2 cruiser (and in the warfare proc's case bc) that is designed to use those modules to great effect?
Imperfection is beauty, madness is genius, and it is better to be absolutely ridiculous than absolutely boring. |
JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.11.02 22:21:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: Gypsio III
Yes, subsytems are completely worthless and I recommend flying your T3 cruiser with none fitted.
and if this doesnt make you happy just remember what ccp said about t3 they arent suppose to be better than the specialized t2s.
If they arent better or allow something unique then they are fail.
The op showed a few examples of failed subsystems.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2009.11.02 22:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: Gypsio III
Yes, subsytems are completely worthless and I recommend flying your T3 cruiser with none fitted.
and if this doesnt make you happy just remember what ccp said about t3 they arent suppose to be better than the specialized t2s.
If they arent better or allow something unique then they are fail.
The op showed a few examples of failed subsystems.
something unique: tengu today can be a heavy tanked missile boat, tomorrow a high dps blasterboat, this weekend a ECM boat, and next week one the best ships for 0.0 travelling. and its all in one ship. t3s are like a box of lego blocks you can make them into whatever you want but they arent as specific as the "kits"( t2s). So you lose a lil bit to have the advantage of a ship that can do it all. And i would say a ship that can get a 1200 dps omni tank ( 150 k plus EHP) with the speed of a cruiser is pretty good but thats just my 2 isk.
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Straife
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.02 23:06:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Straife on 02/11/2009 23:06:12
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: Gypsio III
Yes, subsytems are completely worthless and I recommend flying your T3 cruiser with none fitted.
and if this doesnt make you happy just remember what ccp said about t3 they arent suppose to be better than the specialized t2s.
If they arent better or allow something unique then they are fail.
The op showed a few examples of failed subsystems.
Actually those subs he mentioned aren't failed subsystems, just a failure on thoughts of how to use them. If you haven't looked closer yet, a logistics T3 reps more than a logistics (t2) ship does but at shorter ranges. While also going into the neuting subsytem you can create a neuting ship that also uses missiles or lazors as it's primary weapon system instead of drones (ie the amarr recons). T
here are many other ways you just have to stop thinking that those subsytems are meant to make a "better" curse/logistics.
--------
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.02 23:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: Gypsio III
Yes, subsytems are completely worthless and I recommend flying your T3 cruiser with none fitted.
and if this doesnt make you happy just remember what ccp said about t3 they arent suppose to be better than the specialized t2s.
If they arent better or allow something unique then they are fail.
The op showed a few examples of failed subsystems.
something unique: tengu today can be a heavy tanked missile boat, tomorrow a high dps blasterboat, this weekend a ECM boat, and next week one the best ships for 0.0 travelling. And you could've purchased a better ship in each of those roles all in total for cheaper anyway.
Fixed
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MaxxOmega
Caldari
Wrong Indeed
The Nephilim.
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
something unique: tengu today can be a heavy tanked missile boat, tomorrow a high dps blasterboat, this weekend a ECM boat, and next week one the best ships for 0.0 travelling. And you could've purchased a better ship in each of those roles all in total for cheaper anyway.
And who will fly all those ships at once? This is the "cheaper is better" mantra. But cheaper is often "dull and boring"...
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2009.11.08 23:05:00 -
[11]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 08/11/2009 23:04:56
Originally by: MaxxOmega
Originally by: Marcus Druallis
something unique: tengu today can be a heavy tanked missile boat, tomorrow a high dps blasterboat, this weekend a ECM boat, and next week one the best ships for 0.0 travelling. And you could've purchased a better ship in each of those roles all in total for cheaper anyway.
And who will fly all those ships at once? This is the "cheaper is better" mantra. But cheaper is often "dull and boring"...
Do you fly in all those t3 configurations at once ?
And what about the fact you cant change rigs you noob.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.11.08 23:36:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Qui Shon on 08/11/2009 23:36:36
If you don't like 'em, don't use 'em. Simple.
Btw, I'm sure you noticed the warfare procs are 5% level, and a rank 1 skill at that, as compared to 3% lvl for fleet commands, which is a Rank 8 (!!) skill. Now, fleet commands have other benefits, but in some situations, like when all you're doing is giving bonuses from a pos or ss, I'd find a 60% increase in ship bonus useful. Especially at 1/4th the training time.
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Mereden
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Posted - 2009.11.09 02:29:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Shak'Rah
Edited by: Shak''Rah on 02/11/2009 17:35:04
okay, so i was looking at some of the subsystems for the legion, and i realized that some of them are really worthless. the energy parasitic complex is just a waste of isk since you can fit a curse or pilgrim for way cheaper and do much better with it. then there's the warfare proc and the adaptive augmentor. 5% resists is nice but you put some good eanm's on there and it won't even make a difference.
Actually I fly a Legion with the energy complex and adaptive augmentor, it's a solid fit. You're forgetting the slot modifiers on those modules - you can get a very nice ship which tanks better and out-damages a sacrilege while being faster and having a bonus to neuts and two utility high slots along with its six launchers. This also has the advantage that you can swap in the locus analyser and get the same slots with bonuses to probing and tractor beams rather than neuts, or fit somewhat bonused remote reps. You can only do this because that combination gives you eight high slots.
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SPECKILLER
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Posted - 2009.11.09 03:39:00 -
[14]
Posting to say OP has officially failed both comprehension and EVE.
Thread is flavourless.
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.11.09 08:25:00 -
[15]
OP has discovered why t3 ships are not viable for serious use. They are pimp ships that are cool to fly but every time you would be better suited by a specialized ship. Need to brawl? Bring a bc. Need to rep? Bring a logistics. Need to cloak around? Bring a recon.
The role t3 ships fill has everything to do with pimp factor because when you lose one of these things #1 you better have killed alot with them to have made them cost effective and #2 you're almost certian to lose the isk fight in any battle one of these things goes down.
They make very nice pimp ships. They're tough and they got a lot of utility built in.
Also be prepared for everyone and their mother to come camp you in. And some ceptors and dictors really know what they are doing when it comes to tackling t3. They'll be fixing the dictor thing but even then a cloaky antidictor t3 is pretty gimp.
I was hoping the subsystems for t3 would be extremely tiered. That the cheapest a set might go might be 20 mil (with a chassis for 5 mil) for something that preformed as well as a t1 cruiser, but that better subsystems with more exotic bonuses would be much more expensive. THAT would have been real versatility. Something like:
5 mil hull
4 mil - crappy t1 quality - subsystem
20 mil - slight improvement over t1 in one area - subsystem
50 mil - just under t2 quality in one area - subsystem
100 mil - t2 quality in one area - subsystem
200 mil - unique/improvement over t2 - subsystem
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SPECKILLER
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Posted - 2009.11.09 08:43:00 -
[16]
To above poster: so what about those of us who have spent months skilling for T2 ships?
Why would anyone bother when you could just ***** missions / buy plex and make up a billion dollar T2 smasher with two months skill training? T2 would be a pointless exercise.
Forgive me if i have misunderstood you - i am using my phone browser and sometimes i misread things on it.
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Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2009.11.09 10:10:00 -
[17]
T3s are ment to be flexible jack of all trades, but it is a bit funny how the assault style fits on t3 are way way better than HACs which are specilised, yet not better than recons etc.
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Walker Bulldog
Minmatar
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
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Posted - 2009.11.09 11:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Shak'Rah
Edited by: Shak''Rah on 02/11/2009 17:35:04
if you want to use warfare modules then get a damnation or an abso, they are so much better for the role and, of course, cheaper.
Um, no. A Legion with warfare processor + 2x command processors will mount 3 links with better bonuses than a Damnation, and it can be made impossible to probe out at a safespot as well, which is completely impossible with Damnation/Absolution. But of course all of this went right over your head, didn't it?
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Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2009.11.09 23:21:00 -
[19]
Right now there are cases with specific t3 subsystems that are superior or unique compared to t2. Defensively t3 blows t2 out of the water. Offensively t3 w/o cloaks get more damage bonuses and better ones. 7.5% rof as opposed to 5% ect.
For uniqueness I can cite systems like the interdiction nullifier.
ATM it makes way more sense to try to run a loki in a mission than a vagabond. The vagabond is slightly more specialized and can go 3000+m/s while the loki can get somewhere around 2700m/s before you start fitting snakes. The loki is a better ship than a vagabond if 'more strengths all around' is preferable to you than 'specialized completely.' I prefer to deploy 'specialized completely' ships on the field because you're only paying for what you need but that doesn't mean a loki won't probably **** a vaga in the field.
All I'm saying was when I first saw the fanfest t3 video I was hoping there would be very-cheap, easy to build subsystems so that the cost of a t3 could vary anywhere from the cost of a cyclone to the cost of a machariel depending on how good a one you wanted to make.
People would then wonder, "Am I going up against a death machine or basically a rupture?" And people claim versatility is the real strength of t3. You know what would add a huge ammount of versatility? Being able to choose what price you wanted to pay for a t3 ship.
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DenShou
Gallente
Allied Research Service Executive
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Posted - 2009.11.10 01:57:00 -
[20]
The only real down side in my book to T3, is the fact you HAVE to be at a station to change subsystems. I spend most of my time in WH space and have had a few headaches because i had to jump out of the hole switch my subsystems then head back in. I personally feel that the maintenance bay (or any ship with a fitting option on board) should be able to able to do this.
Otherwise, to anyone who says a T3 ship subsystems are worthless I feel you do not see the grand picture of the power behind one of these Jack of All Trades or you just lack the skills to use it properly.
~
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Faith can move mountains.... of Inventory
- Rule #104 Ferengi Rules of Acquisition |
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.10 11:26:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Durzel on 10/11/2009 11:27:09
Originally by: Straife
Edited by: Straife on 02/11/2009 23:06:12
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: Thorian Baalnorn
Originally by: Gypsio III
Yes, subsytems are completely worthless and I recommend flying your T3 cruiser with none fitted.
and if this doesnt make you happy just remember what ccp said about t3 they arent suppose to be better than the specialized t2s.
If they arent better or allow something unique then they are fail.
The op showed a few examples of failed subsystems.
Actually those subs he mentioned aren't failed subsystems, just a failure on thoughts of how to use them. If you haven't looked closer yet, a logistics T3 reps more than a logistics (t2) ship does but at shorter ranges. While also going into the neuting subsytem you can create a neuting ship that also uses missiles or lazors as it's primary weapon system instead of drones (ie the amarr recons). T
here are many other ways you just have to stop thinking that those subsytems are meant to make a "better" curse/logistics.
Problem is though those subsystems don't even make it equivalent. The Parasitic Complex one for instance has half as much neuting power as the Pilgrim/Curse so you need twice as many neuts to achieve the same effect.
You would think at least that if you're going to specialise in neuting and forgo the only decent combat subsystem (Liquid Crystal Mags) that it would be at least on a par with the Pilgrim.
Thing is quite aside from the fact it has half the neuting power - you have no cloak, no drones and mediocre DPS (less than the Pilgrim). Oh, and lolsensor strength.
The only thing going for the Energy Parasitic Complex subsystem is that it's not as bad as the Covert one.
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Mereden
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Posted - 2009.11.10 12:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Durzel
Edited by: Durzel on 10/11/2009 11:27:09
You would think at least that if you're going to specialise in neuting and forgo the only decent combat subsystem (Liquid Crystal Mags) that it would be at least on a par with the Pilgrim.
Thing is quite aside from the fact it has half the neuting power - you have no cloak, no drones and mediocre DPS (less than the Pilgrim). Oh, and lolsensor strength.
The only thing going for the Energy Parasitic Complex subsystem is that it's not as bad as the Covert one.
Those of us with the ability to read descriptions are aware that the energy parasitic subsystem is an electronics one, and not an offensive one. This is why it's not useless, you can use it with the assault, liquid crystal, whatever systems, not instead of them!
Stop trying to make the T3s recons - they're not, none of them have the same level of bonus that the dedicated EW ships have. If you want that, fly a recon. If you want to take a HAC-like ship and add EW capabilities to boost it those subsystems are perfect - I'm very fond of my buffer tanked missile spewing neuting Legion, and the neut bonus is definitely not useless, how many other ships with this size and agility can put out 600+ dps and run three medium neuts?
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.10 15:40:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Durzel on 10/11/2009 15:40:11
lol 600 DPS and 3 medium neuts, how many high slots is that?
Does it actually have any kind of tank at all or is it a total glass cannon fit?
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Mereden
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Posted - 2009.11.11 01:57:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Durzel
Edited by: Durzel on 10/11/2009 15:40:11
lol 600 DPS and 3 medium neuts, how many high slots is that?
Does it actually have any kind of tank at all or is it a total glass cannon fit?
Equivalent to three neuts, it actually has two (50% subsystem bonus) so eight high slots. Not a glass cannon at all, over 100k EHP, MWD and point. Overheated and using rage (not always appropriate) it'll do over 750dps, I'm not quite sure why people are complaining about those subsystems...
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.11.11 02:01:00 -
[25]
Confirming that subsystems are useless. My loki was equipped with the following:
[Loki, Loki]
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I
[empty subsystem slot]
[empty subsystem slot]
[empty subsystem slot]
[empty subsystem slot]
[empty subsystem slot]
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