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Old issue revisited - Tractor Beams for loot

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Hanse Davion	Posted - 2004.11.03 16:30:00 - [1] Ok before you start flaming let's take a real look at the issue. Pros: 1) CCP has refused to remove mission spawns from high traffic areas, aka gates, land marks, and debris fields. This leads to situations where you sitting there fighting a multi wave spawn and in comes someone picking up your loot. 2) The reduced mission timers and greatly increased mission spawns come together to put you in a situation where you have to choose. Do I pick up my loot or run back to the station for the bonus reward? Cons 1) How do you limit usage to only pickin up loot from a kill? Should not be usable as a way to increase distance for jet can mining. I'm sure there is something I'm missing both Pro and Con, can we please have a mature debate on this? Without the name calling and flaming? Cause trust me there are plenty of people, especially some that spend a lot of time posting to forums, that have the combat experience to handle lvl4 spawns solo without breaking a sweat. However I believe the majority of the community will find lvl4 spawns difficult if not impossible to handle solo. An even you expeienced combat pilots I believe will be challenged not by the spawn itself, instead your challenge will be completing the mission within the bonus times. An let's face it people, we do missions mainly for the bonus rewards and loot, not just for the cash reward. /emote - grabs fire proof blanket and ducks into hole 2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage.
Hanse Davion	Posted - 2004.11.03 16:30:00 - [2] Ok before you start flaming let's take a real look at the issue. Pros: 1) CCP has refused to remove mission spawns from high traffic areas, aka gates, land marks, and debris fields. This leads to situations where you sitting there fighting a multi wave spawn and in comes someone picking up your loot. 2) The reduced mission timers and greatly increased mission spawns come together to put you in a situation where you have to choose. Do I pick up my loot or run back to the station for the bonus reward? Cons 1) How do you limit usage to only pickin up loot from a kill? Should not be usable as a way to increase distance for jet can mining. I'm sure there is something I'm missing both Pro and Con, can we please have a mature debate on this? Without the name calling and flaming? Cause trust me there are plenty of people, especially some that spend a lot of time posting to forums, that have the combat experience to handle lvl4 spawns solo without breaking a sweat. However I believe the majority of the community will find lvl4 spawns difficult if not impossible to handle solo. An even you expeienced combat pilots I believe will be challenged not by the spawn itself, instead your challenge will be completing the mission within the bonus times. An let's face it people, we do missions mainly for the bonus rewards and loot, not just for the cash reward. /emote - grabs fire proof blanket and ducks into hole 2005.01.21 05:09:06combatYour Tachyon Beam Laser I perfectly strikes Blood Priest, wrecking for 533.1 damage.
Mirelath	Posted - 2004.11.03 16:45:00 - [3] Something like this would be nice indeed, especially due to the MWD being limited to only 1, and long distance fighters having a long way to travel, and even at shorter distances, cans go all over the place.
Mirelath	Posted - 2004.11.03 16:45:00 - [4] Something like this would be nice indeed, especially due to the MWD being limited to only 1, and long distance fighters having a long way to travel, and even at shorter distances, cans go all over the place.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.11.03 16:54:00 - [5] Here's a link to a thread that we've been discussing about this very subject in the Eve Idea forum.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.11.03 16:54:00 - [6] Here's a link to a thread that we've been discussing about this very subject in the Eve Idea forum.
Sybylle	Posted - 2004.11.03 16:58:00 - [7] /flame mode on OMGPWNED GET BACK TO CS U NOOB C4R3B34R !!!!11111 /flame off I still wait this feature...since beta now I¦d like a beam that works for any can, but reduces you speed by 50% for each can you are beaming. Max distance should be 20 km, +5 km/skill level (can salvage, rank 5). You would have to lock the item in order to drag it to you, and keep the lock on it until you desactivate it. Draggable target should be limited by the skill (+1 per level, totalizing 5 maximum targets). Dragging speed should be 150 m/s for one can. divided it by 2 for 2 cans, etc... This could be increased based on another skill, Remote Salvage Operations, rank 5, +20 M/s per level. With that, you got a base for the debate ^^ (\_/) (O.o) (> <)=Oveur (proof) "Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period"
Sybylle	Posted - 2004.11.03 16:58:00 - [8] /flame mode on OMGPWNED GET BACK TO CS U NOOB C4R3B34R !!!!11111 /flame off I still wait this feature...since beta now I¦d like a beam that works for any can, but reduces you speed by 50% for each can you are beaming. Max distance should be 20 km, +5 km/skill level (can salvage, rank 5). You would have to lock the item in order to drag it to you, and keep the lock on it until you desactivate it. Draggable target should be limited by the skill (+1 per level, totalizing 5 maximum targets). Dragging speed should be 150 m/s for one can. divided it by 2 for 2 cans, etc... This could be increased based on another skill, Remote Salvage Operations, rank 5, +20 M/s per level. With that, you got a base for the debate ^^ (\_/) (O.o) (> <)=Oveur (proof) "Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period"
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.11.03 17:01:00 - [9] Originally by: Hanse Davion Pros: 1) CCP has refused to remove mission spawns from high traffic areas, aka gates, land marks, and debris fields. This leads to situations where you sitting there fighting a multi wave spawn and in comes someone picking up your loot. In Exodus you will be criminally flagged when you do this. Originally by: Hanse Davion 2) The reduced mission timers and greatly increased mission spawns come together to put you in a situation where you have to choose. Do I pick up my loot or run back to the station for the bonus reward? This has been brought up to Papa Smurf in the Missions forums several times. I believe that they are done on purpose and are designed no to get the bonuses everytime, although certain missions like the Multiple Delivery mission need balancing (i.e. 90,000m3 in 47 jump within 45 minutes). Originally by: Hanse Davion Cons 1) How do you limit usage to only pickin up loot from a kill? Should not be usable as a way to increase distance for jet can mining. I don't understand. Are you saying that miners shouldn't be allowed to mine into jet cans? Originally by: Hanse Davion ...Cause trust me there are plenty of people, especially some that spend a lot of time posting to forums, that have the combat experience to handle lvl4 spawns solo without breaking a sweat. However I believe the majority of the community will find lvl4 spawns difficult if not impossible to handle solo. Again, Papa Smurf has posted a bunch of sticky posts in the Missions forum and discusses alot of these issues with Level IV missions. Its the devs design to have multiple people complete a Level IV mission to get the bonus. Originally by: Hanse Davion An even you expeienced combat pilots I believe will be challenged not by the spawn itself, instead your challenge will be completing the mission within the bonus times. An let's face it people, we do missions mainly for the bonus rewards and loot, not just for the cash reward. There's a thread about the new Loyalty Point (LP) system in the Missions forum that discusses the rewards of missions. I think its upto like 8 pages now.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.11.03 17:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Hanse Davion Pros: 1) CCP has refused to remove mission spawns from high traffic areas, aka gates, land marks, and debris fields. This leads to situations where you sitting there fighting a multi wave spawn and in comes someone picking up your loot. In Exodus you will be criminally flagged when you do this. Originally by: Hanse Davion 2) The reduced mission timers and greatly increased mission spawns come together to put you in a situation where you have to choose. Do I pick up my loot or run back to the station for the bonus reward? This has been brought up to Papa Smurf in the Missions forums several times. I believe that they are done on purpose and are designed no to get the bonuses everytime, although certain missions like the Multiple Delivery mission need balancing (i.e. 90,000m3 in 47 jump within 45 minutes). Originally by: Hanse Davion Cons 1) How do you limit usage to only pickin up loot from a kill? Should not be usable as a way to increase distance for jet can mining. I don't understand. Are you saying that miners shouldn't be allowed to mine into jet cans? Originally by: Hanse Davion ...Cause trust me there are plenty of people, especially some that spend a lot of time posting to forums, that have the combat experience to handle lvl4 spawns solo without breaking a sweat. However I believe the majority of the community will find lvl4 spawns difficult if not impossible to handle solo. Again, Papa Smurf has posted a bunch of sticky posts in the Missions forum and discusses alot of these issues with Level IV missions. Its the devs design to have multiple people complete a Level IV mission to get the bonus. Originally by: Hanse Davion An even you expeienced combat pilots I believe will be challenged not by the spawn itself, instead your challenge will be completing the mission within the bonus times. An let's face it people, we do missions mainly for the bonus rewards and loot, not just for the cash reward. There's a thread about the new Loyalty Point (LP) system in the Missions forum that discusses the rewards of missions. I think its upto like 8 pages now.
Aion Amarra	Posted - 2004.11.03 18:00:00 - [11] Quote: I don't understand. Are you saying that miners shouldn't be allowed to mine into jet cans? I think he meant that a solution to make it impossible for other people to steal your loot, shouldn't prevent jet can mining in any way. (i.e. friends can't open your cons when he wants to haul, other people are unable to steal you ore)
Aion Amarra	Posted - 2004.11.03 18:00:00 - [12] Quote: I don't understand. Are you saying that miners shouldn't be allowed to mine into jet cans? I think he meant that a solution to make it impossible for other people to steal your loot, shouldn't prevent jet can mining in any way. (i.e. friends can't open your cons when he wants to haul, other people are unable to steal you ore)
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.11.03 18:22:00 - [13] That or a deployable gravity beacon, attracting lesser packages in space as to allow for easy scooping once done. Less of a hit and run module than the tractor beam. Convert Stations
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.11.03 18:22:00 - [14] That or a deployable gravity beacon, attracting lesser packages in space as to allow for easy scooping once done. Less of a hit and run module than the tractor beam. Convert Stations
Tobiaz	Posted - 2004.11.03 19:02:00 - [15] I'm pretty sure we'll eventually get salvage drones that can collect cans for you. I think I saw skills for those somewhere.
Tobiaz	Posted - 2004.11.03 19:02:00 - [16] I'm pretty sure we'll eventually get salvage drones that can collect cans for you. I think I saw skills for those somewhere.
Alvar	Posted - 2004.11.03 20:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Hanse Davion 2) The reduced mission timers and greatly increased mission spawns come together to put you in a situation where you have to choose. Do I pick up my loot or run back to the station for the bonus reward? In Shiva you can contact your agent and finish the mission from space, so you won't have to make this choice :)
Alvar	Posted - 2004.11.03 20:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Hanse Davion 2) The reduced mission timers and greatly increased mission spawns come together to put you in a situation where you have to choose. Do I pick up my loot or run back to the station for the bonus reward? In Shiva you can contact your agent and finish the mission from space, so you won't have to make this choice :)
Aelita	Posted - 2004.11.03 21:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Alvar Originally by: Hanse Davion 2) The reduced mission timers and greatly increased mission spawns come together to put you in a situation where you have to choose. Do I pick up my loot or run back to the station for the bonus reward? In Shiva you can contact your agent and finish the mission from space, so you won't have to make this choice :) Not so much true. Often you need deliver VIP, Damsel or similar item back to agent. Trust me find them after you kill over 40 ships in level 4 missions isn't at all easy task and you have only one hour to kill over 120 ships :)
Aelita	Posted - 2004.11.03 21:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Alvar Originally by: Hanse Davion 2) The reduced mission timers and greatly increased mission spawns come together to put you in a situation where you have to choose. Do I pick up my loot or run back to the station for the bonus reward? In Shiva you can contact your agent and finish the mission from space, so you won't have to make this choice :) Not so much true. Often you need deliver VIP, Damsel or similar item back to agent. Trust me find them after you kill over 40 ships in level 4 missions isn't at all easy task and you have only one hour to kill over 120 ships :)
Elita	Posted - 2004.11.03 22:40:00 - [21] After a multi-spawn mission, I often go back to the station to finish the mission, then come back for the cans in my indy (which, embarrassingly enough, is much faster than my Maller!). I just drop a bookmark at the spawn point. For multi-BM missions, I drop a BM at each point. I've never had a problem with other players taking my mission loot because I run missions in sparsely-populated systems. Still, a tractor beam would be convenient. -- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke
Elita	Posted - 2004.11.03 22:40:00 - [22] After a multi-spawn mission, I often go back to the station to finish the mission, then come back for the cans in my indy (which, embarrassingly enough, is much faster than my Maller!). I just drop a bookmark at the spawn point. For multi-BM missions, I drop a BM at each point. I've never had a problem with other players taking my mission loot because I run missions in sparsely-populated systems. Still, a tractor beam would be convenient. -- "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -Arthur C. Clarke
Wanoah	Posted - 2004.11.03 22:59:00 - [23] I like the idea of salvage drones. Should be pretty easy to implement within the existing set of controls for drones I would think. Hmm, tractor beams. It would seem to be a waste to restrict their use just to sucking up loot cans. Why not have them as a mod that could be used in much the same way as a webifier? Except, instead of just slowing a ship down, it actually pulls/pushes it to your optimal range and keeps it there. Imagine a pirate Titan that sucks up other ships and keeps them in its hold until they pay a ransom. Ah well, just playing with the idea really.
Wanoah	Posted - 2004.11.03 22:59:00 - [24] I like the idea of salvage drones. Should be pretty easy to implement within the existing set of controls for drones I would think. Hmm, tractor beams. It would seem to be a waste to restrict their use just to sucking up loot cans. Why not have them as a mod that could be used in much the same way as a webifier? Except, instead of just slowing a ship down, it actually pulls/pushes it to your optimal range and keeps it there. Imagine a pirate Titan that sucks up other ships and keeps them in its hold until they pay a ransom. Ah well, just playing with the idea really.
Sjoor	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:55:00 - [25] I see a 425mm railgun hitting a lowbie mob.. so seriously u are complaining about the fact that ur ship is freaking slow and therefor u don't have time to pickup the loot and finish the mission in time for the bonus.. Shame on u. Think it's about time u use a different ship for cake missions and be able to kill all, grab the loot, have a quicky with the damsel and return back to base after a smoke with 10 minutes spare. Sjoor And to add some wrecking shots.. seems to be the way to do it. Your 280mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Guardian Captain, wrecking for 262.5 damage. (kinda crappy tho, cause all these wrecking shots u see posted are on the hull, like mine, lol)
Sjoor	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:55:00 - [26] I see a 425mm railgun hitting a lowbie mob.. so seriously u are complaining about the fact that ur ship is freaking slow and therefor u don't have time to pickup the loot and finish the mission in time for the bonus.. Shame on u. Think it's about time u use a different ship for cake missions and be able to kill all, grab the loot, have a quicky with the damsel and return back to base after a smoke with 10 minutes spare. Sjoor And to add some wrecking shots.. seems to be the way to do it. Your 280mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Guardian Captain, wrecking for 262.5 damage. (kinda crappy tho, cause all these wrecking shots u see posted are on the hull, like mine, lol)
Aelita	Posted - 2004.11.04 14:58:00 - [27] Originally by: Sjoor I see a 425mm railgun hitting a lowbie mob.. so seriously u are complaining about the fact that ur ship is freaking slow and therefor u don't have time to pickup the loot and finish the mission in time for the bonus.. Shame on u. Think it's about time u use a different ship for cake missions and be able to kill all, grab the loot, have a quicky with the damsel and return back to base after a smoke with 10 minutes spare. Sjoor And to add some wrecking shots.. seems to be the way to do it. Your 280mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Guardian Captain, wrecking for 262.5 damage. (kinda crappy tho, cause all these wrecking shots u see posted are on the hull, like mine, lol) OK Sjoor go and try level 4 mission with your medium guns :) Looting becoming more and more time sink because new missions and new complexes will make it even harder. FYI: In complexes you can't use MWD so only AB remain as speed booster.
Aelita	Posted - 2004.11.04 14:58:00 - [28] Originally by: Sjoor I see a 425mm railgun hitting a lowbie mob.. so seriously u are complaining about the fact that ur ship is freaking slow and therefor u don't have time to pickup the loot and finish the mission in time for the bonus.. Shame on u. Think it's about time u use a different ship for cake missions and be able to kill all, grab the loot, have a quicky with the damsel and return back to base after a smoke with 10 minutes spare. Sjoor And to add some wrecking shots.. seems to be the way to do it. Your 280mm Howitzer Artillery II perfectly strikes Guardian Captain, wrecking for 262.5 damage. (kinda crappy tho, cause all these wrecking shots u see posted are on the hull, like mine, lol) OK Sjoor go and try level 4 mission with your medium guns :) Looting becoming more and more time sink because new missions and new complexes will make it even harder. FYI: In complexes you can't use MWD so only AB remain as speed booster.

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