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Collision Detection

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Davich MacGregor Minmatar Stellar Products and Quality Resources	Posted - 2009.11.03 18:12:00 - [1] Want to make combat more then prime target push button bore me to death? Introduce collision detection. Now you have friendly fire, manuever, hiding behind roids or big ships, actully having to think (), and formations will matter. PvP would become so much more fun. I don't understand why what little there was got taken out in the first place.
Lork Niffle Gallente External Hard Drive	Posted - 2009.11.03 18:15:00 - [2] Once you bring anything more than relative and angular velocity to EVE you cannot host more than 32-64 players in any grid interacting with each other. Seriously you try and ensure every player has a 50mb SDSL line. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics.
D3F4ULT Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.03 18:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Davich MacGregor Want to make combat more then prime target push button bore me to death? Introduce collision detection. Now you have friendly fire, manuever, hiding behind roids or big ships, actully having to think (), and formations will matter. PvP would become so much more fun. I don't understand why what little there was got taken out in the first place. One of my corpies and I were talking about getting a sh!t load of T1 frigates and make them meat shields.
RS Murphy Amarr League of Gentlemen Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.11.03 18:15:00 - [4] I like cake, sponge cake specifically. Anyone else?
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.11.03 18:15:00 - [5] Originally by: Davich MacGregor Want to make combat more then prime target push button bore me to death? Introduce collision detection. Now you have friendly fire, manuever, hiding behind roids or big ships, actully having to think (), and formations will matter. Oh and you'll also get massive lag. PvP would become so much more fun. I don't understand why what little there was got taken out in the first place. Fixed. You missed one big drawback. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.11.03 18:56:00 - [6] This is as great an idea as giving all mission rats complex AI routines. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage MACHI MISCHIEF	Posted - 2009.11.03 18:59:00 - [7] Welcome to Lag Online. There is a good reason this hasn't been done. EVE != Counter-Strike in space. Hate Farmers? Click Here
N'baro Dark	Posted - 2009.11.03 19:01:00 - [8] Originally by: RS Murphy I like cake, sponge cake specifically. Anyone else? Pie is much better. No really, it is.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.11.03 19:05:00 - [9] Originally by: N'baro Dark Originally by: RS Murphy I like cake, sponge cake specifically. Anyone else? Pie is much better. No really, it is. Waffles > Cake > Pie. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Saurish	Posted - 2009.11.03 20:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Lork Niffle Once you bring anything more than relative and angular velocity to EVE you cannot host more than 32-64 players in any grid interacting with each other. Seriously you try and ensure every player has a 50mb SDSL line. Learn something about connection/ and how server is working, before you make a fool of yourself.
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2009.11.03 20:32:00 - [11] oh cmon!!! Don't bash the guy that much! I mean offcourse it will mean massive lag, but remember, 6 years ago, how big were the bandwiths then? I remember starting off with a theoretical 1Mb down/256Kb up line... now it's like 20Mb down allready and i CAN indeed get a 50Mb line if i wanted to.. hell... sometime next year we will get fiberoptics... So maybe not now, but for possible future expansions... who knows? ________________________________________________
Zeredek	Posted - 2009.11.03 20:34:00 - [12] Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: N'baro Dark Originally by: RS Murphy I like cake, sponge cake specifically. Anyone else? Pie is much better. No really, it is. Waffles > Cake > Pie. Pancakes > Waffles > Cake > Pie. -------------------
Akhmed TDT	Posted - 2009.11.03 21:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Lork Niffle Once you bring anything more than relative and angular velocity to EVE you cannot host more than 32-64 players in any grid interacting with each other. Seriously you try and ensure every player has a 50mb SDSL line. Ship 1: current x,y,z coordinates, velocity m/s, direction, shiptype (for dimensions displacing space based on previous) Ship [n]: repeat Ship 1 -> ship [n]: calculate line of site on backend Sounds like about 50 bits if data per second per ship and has been done since the 2400 baud days. Graphically it's all rendered on the client side on their CPU and GPU. Whether it's a hit/collision or not is all on the backend already. It physically calculates the x,y,z already to draw the weapons fire between ships and physically renders it passing through already populated coordinates faster than you can blink. If weaponsFireCoord[x,y,z] == AkhmedCoord[x,y,z] call ConcordOMGBBQ.proc -> targeting ship else call targetTakesDMGset.currentship[x,y,z] && end weaponsFireCoord fi Personally I think the only reason it's gone is the recent desync issues they got around to addressing recently.
Illectroculus Defined	Posted - 2009.11.03 21:16:00 - [14] You don't even need to do most of the collision detection on the server side - have the clients - both the attacker and the target - if they agree on the results, great, if they disagree then the server steps in and does the intersection calculation. (and if a client keeps disagreeing with everyone else then it's probably desynched and should be forced to reload the grid). I built p2p systems which used similar client side calculation and voting techniques to move load off the server.
Shania Lynn	Posted - 2009.11.03 21:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Zeredek Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: N'baro Dark Originally by: RS Murphy I like cake, sponge cake specifically. Anyone else? Pie is much better. No really, it is. Waffles > Cake > Pie. Pancakes > Waffles > Cake > Pie. French Toast > Pancakes > Waffles > Cake > Pie
Slade Trillgon Siorai Iontach	Posted - 2009.11.03 21:21:00 - [16] Here is your collision dedtection. Slade Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat! ≡v≡
Lork Niffle Gallente External Hard Drive	Posted - 2009.11.03 21:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Saurish Originally by: Lork Niffle Once you bring anything more than relative and angular velocity to EVE you cannot host more than 32-64 players in any grid interacting with each other. Seriously you try and ensure every player has a 50mb SDSL line. Learn something about connection/ and how server is working, before you make a fool of yourself. And how was I wrong? Even with the best netcode, collision detection and line of sight in a muhc more traditional sense will exponentially increase server load and client - server data load. As it is now it works jsut fine with 1400 people. Add more stuff that needs to send data and you jsut have to being learning your 1400 times table. ------------------------------------- Don't click the links or even the forum topics.
Cory Sopapilla Minmatar Kiroshi Group	Posted - 2009.11.03 21:27:00 - [18] Originally by: Lork Niffle Originally by: Saurish Originally by: Lork Niffle Once you bring anything more than relative and angular velocity to EVE you cannot host more than 32-64 players in any grid interacting with each other. Seriously you try and ensure every player has a 50mb SDSL line. Learn something about connection/ and how server is working, before you make a fool of yourself. And how was I wrong? Even with the best netcode, collision detection and line of sight in a muhc more traditional sense will exponentially increase server load and client - server data load. As it is now it works jsut fine with 1400 people. Add more stuff that needs to send data and you jsut have to being learning your 1400 times table. Because all x,y,z,velocity,trajectory coordinates are already being transmitted. Otherwise you wouldn't have 3 dimensional space graphics. I think you're confusing processing power with bandwidth.
Jarna Amarr Angelus Degeneris	Posted - 2009.11.03 21:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Lork Niffle Once you bring anything more than relative and angular velocity to EVE you cannot host more than 32-64 players in any grid interacting with each other. Seriously you try and ensure every player has a 50mb SDSL line. Actually, if you left it up to the client to determine if there was about to be a collision, and then only send that information when there should be a collision and have the server do a quick test to make sure it's valid, it could possibly work. ------------------------------ EVE players are just as immature as WoW players.
Doomed Predator Red Federation	Posted - 2009.11.03 21:31:00 - [20] It would make EVE a slide show until the server would just say **** it and burn to the ground. Would be cool to see one day though. The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again
Kweel Nakashyn shadow and cloaking Mordus Angels	Posted - 2009.11.03 22:01:00 - [21] Originally by: Davich MacGregor Want to make combat more then prime target push button bore me to death? Introduce collision detection. Now you have friendly fire, manuever, hiding behind roids or big ships, actully having to think (), and formations will matter. PvP would become so much more fun. I don't understand why what little there was got taken out in the first place. I'm with you 100%. I ask this since 2 years. It will nerf blobs too. ~ Beer > Eve ? Eve > Beer ?
Kweel Nakashyn shadow and cloaking Mordus Angels	Posted - 2009.11.03 22:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Jarna Originally by: Lork Niffle Once you bring anything more than relative and angular velocity to EVE you cannot host more than 32-64 players in any grid interacting with each other. Seriously you try and ensure every player has a 50mb SDSL line. Actually, if you left it up to the client to determine if there was about to be a collision, and then only send that information when there should be a collision and have the server do a quick test to make sure it's valid, it could possibly work. Because of cheaters, CCP won't do that. What they can do is bumping making damage with little consequence on the server load (since the server allready calculate bumps, just apply damage on top). But this makes a lot of problems : warps in, station undocks that something like (30 sec * (1/AG)) invulnerability to bumps and inability to ram in these situation would solve. And here is some new server load. About shots collision, I spoke of this with a friend for one hour or two, we couldn't found a fine solution with no server load. There are some kind of solution but they are exotic and add some loads, since you use prediction math. Prediction math are hungry cpu-wise. :( ~ Beer > Eve ? Eve > Beer ?
Jyana Petrovskaya	Posted - 2009.11.03 22:26:00 - [23] imagine 100 caps jumping to the same cyno.
PerrinAybarra The Meat Grinder	Posted - 2009.11.04 00:29:00 - [24] one time you could hide behind asteroids and missiles couldn't it you but guns could. Ships used to bounce each other hundreds of kilometers on warp ins and heaven help you if you hit a secure can coming out of warp. so it was removed
Cadde Gallente 221st Century Warfare	Posted - 2009.11.04 00:54:00 - [25] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Because of cheaters, CCP won't do that. The guy also stated that if one client disagrees with the other it's probably de-synced and thus has it's result discarded. A cheater would therefore be discarded all the time unless he is cheating against himself with one client saying it should be killed and the other saying it should kill. What's the gain there??? If both clients are saying that their shot is better at least one will be discarded and the server will provide it's own solution. If both clients are wrong according to the server they will be re-synced. If they keep disagreeing they are most likely cheating and a GM will kindly escort them out of the server. My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
Zeredek	Posted - 2009.11.04 13:28:00 - [26] Originally by: Shania Lynn Originally by: Zeredek Originally by: Blane Xero Originally by: N'baro Dark Pie is much better. No really, it is. Waffles > Cake > Pie. Pancakes > Waffles > Cake > Pie. French Toast > Pancakes > Waffles > Cake > Pie Cookies > French Toast > Pancakes > Waffles > Cake > Pie -------------------
Melor Rend	Posted - 2009.11.04 15:12:00 - [27] Originally by: 000Hunter000 I mean offcourse it will mean massive lag, but remember, 6 years ago, how big were the bandwiths then? Bandwidth is not the problem. It's the calculations that would have to happen on the server that make this suggestion impossible. Everything in EVE has to scale or it will cause massive lag as soon as 500 people are on a single grid. Even just calculating who is in who's line of sight will be a horrendous amount of calculations.
Burnharder	Posted - 2009.11.04 15:16:00 - [28] Please, leave the collision detection alone. It's **e now but that's ok, because in the past it was *****s. I remember the early days: sticky stations and asteroids, star-gate billiards, etc. It still happens to an extent, but it's not as bad as it used to be. btw: in order to do it efficiently, you'd need some kind of octree on grid. On grid = on server and the server can't do anything more than a simple calculation like 1 + 1 = 3.5.
Ealiom Allied Tactical Squadron	Posted - 2009.11.04 15:33:00 - [29] Dear god no... There is a reason why you haven't seen 1000+ player FPS's. The required calculations would be horrendous Imagine undocking a frieghter in Jita. They should implement graphical differences for shots missed etc. A laser beam refracting off a shield. An artillery shell slung off the ships bow. Vicariously, I live while the whole world dies. Much better you than I. Blackbird Executioner

CCP StevieSG	Posted - 2009.11.04 16:03:00 - [30] Moved to Features and Ideas from Eve General. StevieSG


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