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I haz plan to fix the Prophecy

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Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:34:00 - [31] Ammar ship design is singleminded because laser BS work very well. The harbinger works very well. Beyond that the prophecy, maller, and omen suck donkey balls. T1 small laser boats are not made of win. On the other hand there is no current training path to go towards t2 khanid. This change would improve the lineup of Ammar ships and open up a particular ammar playstyle to people who do not have the money or the sp to regularly use it. The only cost would be the loss of two lazer boats noone fly anyway because there are far superior options.
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:47:00 - [32] So what you want is an Armor tanking Drake? ----
Amalinze Tehkat Out of Order Cult of War	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Hiroshima Jita On the other hand there is no current training path to go towards t2 khanid. This change would improve the lineup of Ammar ships and open up a particular ammar playstyle to people who do not have the money or the sp to regularly use it. Yes! Lets look at the Khanid lineup for a moment... Vengeance - Rockets blow, but as heavy tackle it has no equal Anathema - Not much distinction between them, but certainly not the worst Sacrilege - Again, not the best HAC, but as a soloboat it's only rivaled by the Vaga...if you have the cash Curse - Best. Ship. Ever. Everybody runs from it. (Everybody primaries it). Damnation - It's the best fleet command ship, hands down. So all in all, not much to complain about compared to the woes of others (yeah Eos fans, we hear you) except for the fact that they're the only ships in the game that armor tank and shoot missiles (except the typhoon). If a nub starts out and discovers he would like to fly these ships, he can't train for them effectively because until he has cruiser 5, missiles are worthless. If he does train for them directly (like me), he's then forced to cross train to minmatar just to get a BS that uses his skills. And if he wants to learn to fly them, every mistake is an uninsured mistake. tl,dr: The Prophecy is the least used, least useful BC in the game. Giving it a 5% rof bonus to HAM's would give it a chance of being used, as well as providing a low-sp starting point for new characters interested in the Khanid line. It would hurt...nothing. Nothing at all.
Bun Engine	Posted - 2009.11.04 21:07:00 - [34] Edited by: Bun Engine on 04/11/2009 21:08:17 Originally by: Ruah Piskonit So what you want is an Armor tanking Drake? No. Because: - HAM's don't shoot to 100+ km. - Armor doesn't regenerate itself so quickly that it defeats the purpose of active tanking. (Compare any Drake fit to a 3-rep active myrm fit). - A large armor buffer makes every ship into a flying brick that significantly hinders any gang not comprised entirely of giant bricks. We aren't asking for the prophecy to be made into the most hilariously overpowered T1 subcapital in the game, we want it to be useful. Like... cyclone, or brutix useful. God forbid the prophecy, or any other ship for that matter, approach the holy grail of bull**** that is the drake.
DJV's Lawyer	Posted - 2009.11.04 21:42:00 - [35] Edited by: DJV''s Lawyer on 04/11/2009 21:43:29 TIER 1 BC : cyclone = pure win brutix = better then myrm prophecy = hard as a rock ferox = ???? lolz? my point is , dont complain you dont have ferox as your tier 1 bc
Serra Polaris Amarr Trichomes Unlimited Massive Intergalactic Love Klub	Posted - 2009.11.04 22:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Hiroshima Jita Ammar ship design is singleminded because laser BS work very well. The harbinger works very well. Beyond that the prophecy, maller, and omen suck donkey balls. T1 small laser boats are not made of win. On the other hand there is no current training path to go towards t2 khanid. This change would improve the lineup of Ammar ships and open up a particular ammar playstyle to people who do not have the money or the sp to regularly use it. The only cost would be the loss of two lazer boats noone fly anyway because there are far superior options. I was thinking more along the lines that the Amarr are extremely religious which is why their ships follow a strict design. I don't know that much about the backstory but it makes sense especially when you take a look at all of the names of the Khanid ships (which break that design) like the Heretic and Sacrilege. You have the ability to train for other race's ships so I don't see the problem.
Thingymawotzit Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.11.04 23:35:00 - [37] Sooo....Looks like most people are keen on the HAM Prophecy. Rather than getting everyone's support here I'd rather start an Assembly Hall thread here and get everyones to go support it there. That way we might actually get this changed
Noisrevbus Caldari Breams Gone Wild	Posted - 2009.11.05 03:27:00 - [38] Edited by: Noisrevbus on 05/11/2009 03:30:31 There is a reason (beyond Khanid RP) you are going to have trouble convincing alot of people to go with the HAM change, and especially any Caldari pilots. It's not because of complaints that the Drake get a challenge within the BC class, and rather that you challenge their last bastion. See, when the Sacri was first changed, it began completely outdoing the Cerberus in a short-medium role. Later the nano-nerf cramped most armor tanking HACs pretty hard and much of the community have yet been able to adapt to that. Yet, if you take a couple of seconds to look beyond the trends of tanking - you will most likely see the reason. Most Caldari ships have range bonuses, and their damage bonus is KN only. Whereas the HAM bonuses have been made into RoF which is a far superior bonus. Not only giving you an effective damage boost, but also allowing you to fully take advantage on the missile ability to change damage type. So while a HAM Prophecy may not have the same amount of slots (eg., -25%), it is quite likely to have fairly similar effective damage as a Drake (with an effective +25% bonus). You can also add other typical design traits ontop of that, such as drone bays for Khanid ships and you will see the issue emerge. Looking at bonuses alone, the Sacri beat the crap out of the Cerb. A Khanid Prophecy might not 'beat' a Drake, but it will be nigh comparable with a Harby and it will definately beat a Ferox which is within it's tier. Then you have the entire line of good Laser ships ontop of that. Whereas the Prophecy today, suffer the same issues most tier one BC do. Overshadowed by their second tier brothers, but also having somewhat questionable bonuses (a cap bonus it may not use to full extent, a range bonus not used to full extent and two active tank bonuses not used to full extent). At least in comparison to their brothers with real damage bonuses. The only tier one BC that stick out is the Brutix, but considering that the Myrm stick out far less - that's a pretty fair total. Stick HAM with an RoF bonus on the Prophecy and the combination of tier one and two for Amarr will be extremely strong, which will push their total performance in the BC class up, while they dominate in other classes already. So while a Khanid Prophecy would be fun, it would affect overall balance quite alot and there are far more pressing matters to deal with, on other ships, that should be much higher on the agenda for CCP. In relation to tier one BC, the Prophecy is fine. In relation to BC, Amarr is fine, and in relation to overall balance Amarr is more than fine. Hen - feather.
Sentinel Borg	Posted - 2009.11.05 11:23:00 - [39] Originally by: Serra Polaris I was thinking more along the lines that the Amarr are extremely religious which is why their ships follow a strict design. I don't know that much about the backstory but it makes sense especially when you take a look at all of the names of the Khanid ships (which break that design) like the Heretic and Sacrilege. You have the ability to train for other race's ships so I don't see the problem. Well, the game world isn't static and a lot has changed in the Amarr empire in the last years. Especially the current Empress has started a lot of reforms and even invited the Khanid back into the Amarr Council. So in terms of the backstory, a change like that should be no problem.
Kazang Gallente Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.11.05 12:43:00 - [40] The proph is fine you can get a crazy buffer on it for a BC, more than a drake, and 300 dps is not too be sniffed at when you have twice the EHP of a mega. A small gun bonus would be stupid, a drone bonus would be better but its not needed anyway because the proph is one of the better tier 1 BCs. Kazang
Black Necromunger Amarr Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2009.11.05 16:39:00 - [41] Edited by: Black Necromunger on 05/11/2009 16:40:14 Originally by: Thingymawotzit Currently as it stands you can get around 250k EHP with 3x1600mm and triple trimark. This leaves room for fitting light guns in the highs and getting a total of about 300DPS out of this beast. Not sure how you calculated 250,000 EHP. 3x 1600mm, 2 EANM T2s, 1 DC T2 & tripple medium trimark armor pump sits around 109k.
rodensteiner Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.05 17:27:00 - [42] Originally by: DJV's Lawyer Edited by: DJV''s Lawyer on 04/11/2009 21:43:29 TIER 1 BC : cyclone = pure win brutix = better then myrm prophecy = hard as a rock ferox = ???? lolz? my point is , dont complain you dont have ferox as your tier 1 bc I would easily classify to the Ferox over the Prophecy. If nothing else, it has an actual gun bonus. Yes, that's correct, a Laser cap usage bonus can not be considered a true weapon bonus. I don't think the Prophecy needs much to be a better BC, however. Something simple like a ROF bonus would do the trick. On a separate note, the Maller could use a little something, too. Either some sort of gun bonus, OR a small drone bay. Enough for 3 lights, like the Omen, perhaps. _____________________________________________ I'm horrible at PVP
Thingymawotzit Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.11.06 00:24:00 - [43] Originally by: Black Necromunger Edited by: Black Necromunger on 05/11/2009 16:40:14 Originally by: Thingymawotzit Currently as it stands you can get around 250k EHP with 3x1600mm and triple trimark. This leaves room for fitting light guns in the highs and getting a total of about 300DPS out of this beast. Not sure how you calculated 250,000 EHP. 3x 1600mm, 2 EANM T2s, 1 DC T2 & tripple medium trimark armor pump sits around 109k. Not sure how you calculated 109k ehp. All lvl 5 skills? With no slaves and no gang bonuses you have 150k ehp. Add slaves and gang bonuses (coz you wouldn't fly this solo) and you've got 250k ehp.

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