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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 36 post(s)
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.08 09:25:00 - [1] BAWL OUT WITH THE OLD IN WITH THE NEW you guys had your time in the sun and when all your isk is spent trying to protect your precious sovereignty we will rise up to cut your lines and destroy everything you've worked for. To hell with the old way and the big alliances crying about holding vast stretches of space and kicking out the smaller guys instead of helping them prosper and making them allies.. If the old alliances fail its is because they've failed to adapt this isn't a step back its an opportunity to Change strategies and advance.
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.08 09:33:00 - [2] Originally by: Anahid Brutus Originally by: Verlisia BAWL OUT WITH THE OLD IN WITH THE NEW you guys had your time in the sun and when all your isk is spent trying to protect your precious sovereignty we will rise up to cut your lines and destroy everything you've worked for. To hell with the old way and the big alliances crying about holding vast stretches of space and kicking out the smaller guys instead of helping them prosper and making them allies.. If the old alliances fail its is because they've failed to adapt this isn't a step back its an opportunity to Change strategies and advance. You're missing the point, nothing here is a challenge to the large alliances, except that it makes 0.0 so bad that it might make them all move into npc 0.0. And if you think smaller alliances will have a fighting chance in npc spahahahahaha no one cares about npc space so please be my guest. Enjoy
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.08 09:41:00 - [3] Goons cry such sweet tears lol
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.10 20:16:00 - [4] lol more goon tears please I've children to feed lol
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.10 20:47:00 - [5] people who complain about having to bring everything from empire are just stupid. You can build almost everything on site with the right towers and stations. The only thing anyone should have to bring down are maybe componets to build T2 stuff and maybe some things for invention. If your Alliance is based on Ratters and Moongoo then that's your problem. Clearing a single system of its minerals refining them in the local station/pos with good skills and having people build all manner of stuff you need solves the whole ship replacement problem as well. My group does only 1 major mining op a week and we manage to collect enough materials to build enough cruisers/battle cruisers to supply everyone with replacements and were only based in high/low sec. Null sec groups have access to much greater quantities of materials then we do they just don't properly utilize their full potential. If you idiots used the materials on hand to build what you needed instead of grinding rats all day to pay for stuff then you'd be better off. Anyone who doesn't maximize efficiency of the materials given to them rather then just depending on the direct income of bounties and moons deserve to fail.
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.10 21:17:00 - [6] Originally by: Qlanth Edited by: Qlanth on 10/11/2009 20:58:23 Originally by: Verlisia people who complain about having to bring everything from empire are just stupid. You can build almost everything on site with the right towers and stations. The only thing anyone should have to bring down are maybe componets to build T2 stuff and maybe some things for invention. If your Alliance is based on Ratters and Moongoo then that's your problem. Clearing a single system of its minerals refining them in the local station/pos with good skills and having people build all manner of stuff you need solves the whole ship replacement problem as well. My group does only 1 major mining op a week and we manage to collect enough materials to build enough cruisers/battle cruisers to supply everyone with replacements and were only based in high/low sec. Null sec groups have access to much greater quantities of materials then we do they just don't properly utilize their full potential. If you idiots used the materials on hand to build what you needed instead of grinding rats all day to pay for stuff then you'd be better off. Anyone who doesn't maximize efficiency of the materials given to them rather then just depending on the direct income of bounties and moons deserve to fail. No matter how many miners you have clearing out your system, to survive in 0.0 you will always need to import at the very least Tritanium. Battleships are the bread and butter of every 0.0 fleet looking to accomplish anything substantial (take moons, take systems). You could mine dry and entire system in 0.0 and get enough Trit for maybe two or three battleships. Now keep in mind you need to replace these on an alliance level. You need to replace ~20 battleships every week assuming you don't have a major loss. Often times it is much easier and more cost effective to import Tritanium or just import ships. Also things like: implants, POS modules, and of course fuel among other things often cannot be acquired outside of importation either because they are NPC seeded or because they do not exist in your region. That's not true though about the trit... you only need 13 or so million trit to build a abaddon for instance with a ME of 0. there's more than 13 Mill worth of trit in one belt in empire belts. ( we mine usually about 2 belts at a time and at the end of it all we typically end up with about 25-30+ mill of trit depending on if we concentrante solely on veld or not. so that's a battle ship per belt and they respawn fairly often enough that you could draw in enough materials in a week with a group of dedicated industry guys who know what their doing to provide loads of ships including bs's.
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.10 21:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Normin Bates Originally by: Cefte [x] Ignorant of value of own time. [x] No understanding of term 'opportunity cost' [ ] Pathologically risk averse. Two out of three for the empire pubbie trifecta. [x] Patently lazy and tear soaked goon. [x] Unwilling to adapt. [x] Fears losing vast areas of unused space. [ ] Now seriously concerned about smaller alliances' ability to hold space. [x] Hopes CCP will buckle under the tears posted here. [ ] Is honest & genuine. Fixed that for ya.
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.10 21:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Qlanth Originally by: Verlisia Originally by: Qlanth Edited by: Qlanth on 10/11/2009 20:58:23 Originally by: Verlisia people who complain about having to bring everything from empire are just stupid. You can build almost everything on site with the right towers and stations. The only thing anyone should have to bring down are maybe componets to build T2 stuff and maybe some things for invention. If your Alliance is based on Ratters and Moongoo then that's your problem. Clearing a single system of its minerals refining them in the local station/pos with good skills and having people build all manner of stuff you need solves the whole ship replacement problem as well. My group does only 1 major mining op a week and we manage to collect enough materials to build enough cruisers/battle cruisers to supply everyone with replacements and were only based in high/low sec. Null sec groups have access to much greater quantities of materials then we do they just don't properly utilize their full potential. If you idiots used the materials on hand to build what you needed instead of grinding rats all day to pay for stuff then you'd be better off. Anyone who doesn't maximize efficiency of the materials given to them rather then just depending on the direct income of bounties and moons deserve to fail. No matter how many miners you have clearing out your system, to survive in 0.0 you will always need to import at the very least Tritanium. Battleships are the bread and butter of every 0.0 fleet looking to accomplish anything substantial (take moons, take systems). You could mine dry and entire system in 0.0 and get enough Trit for maybe two or three battleships. Now keep in mind you need to replace these on an alliance level. You need to replace ~20 battleships every week assuming you don't have a major loss. Often times it is much easier and more cost effective to import Tritanium or just import ships. Also things like: implants, POS modules, and of course fuel among other things often cannot be acquired outside of importation either because they are NPC seeded or because they do not exist in your region. That's not true though about the trit... you only need 13 or so million trit to build a abaddon for instance with a ME of 0. there's more than 13 Mill worth of trit in one belt in empire belts. ( we mine usually about 2 belts at a time and at the end of it all we typically end up with about 25-30+ mill of trit depending on if we concentrante solely on veld or not. so that's a battle ship per belt and they respawn fairly often enough that you could draw in enough materials in a week with a group of dedicated industry guys who know what their doing to provide loads of ships including bs's. There is also the issue that while I am mining Veldspar and Scordite 23 hours a day I could be ratting or running Level 4 missions and make more than enough ISK to just buy the Tritanium and import it. In actuality I can gather more Tritanium faster by ratting and using my ISK to buy it in empire and import it to 0.0 than i could by just mining it. So i suppose that running lvl 4 missions for an hr gets you as much trit and isk then gathering 10 or so people to clear a belt in the same amount of time and i suppose having to move it all the way out to your base of production while running the lvl 4's are all done within that same amount of time? we donate our time for that one day to fund the free ships and do 50/50 ops to pay people for their time as well to suppliment the weekly donation. given that we can build nearly all the ships we need and equipment as well our members dont have to grind as much to pay for their own goods and instead of spending it on ships spend it on better gear and implants... but i suppose your methods of looking out only for yourselves is a much better way of doing thing?
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.10 21:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Verlisia Originally by: Qlanth You could mine dry and entire system in 0.0 and get enough Trit for maybe two or three battleships. That's not true though about the trit... you only need 13 or so million trit to build a abaddon for instance with a ME of 0. there's more than 13 Mill worth of trit in one belt in empire belts Do you see the where you didn't manage to argue, disprove or contradict the point he made? Originally by: Orthaen Mining? Exploration? All the things dominion adds? These are all far superior to hi-sec. àapart from the fact that a CCP representative has claimed that the only thing we have any actual info on will not be far superior ù it will, in fact, be on par, at best, with the equivalent highsec activity. He said that there was only enough trit for maybe 2 or 3 battleships in an entire system. There's enough trit in one belt for a battleship usually. so under that thinking a system doesn't have enough for 2 or 3 it has enough to build nearly an equal to the number of belts in the system. Most systems have at least 4-6 belts so there's 4-6 battleships putting your mining operations in a system with 10 or more belts and having dedicated miners and industrialist exploiting them would produce a good quantities of ships every day.... and that's battle ships you can build a hell of alot more cruisers and battle cruisers for the same amount of materials as a single battle ship.
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.10 21:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Verlisia Originally by: Qlanth Edited by: Qlanth on 10/11/2009 20:58:23 No matter how many miners you have clearing out your system, to survive in 0.0 you will always need to import at the very least Tritanium. Battleships are the bread and butter of every 0.0 fleet looking to accomplish anything substantial (take moons, take systems). You could mine dry and entire system in 0.0 and get enough Trit for maybe two or three battleships. Now keep in mind you need to replace these on an alliance level. You need to replace ~20 battleships every week assuming you don't have a major loss. Often times it is much easier and more cost effective to import Tritanium or just import ships. Also things like: implants, POS modules, and of course fuel among other things often cannot be acquired outside of importation either because they are NPC seeded or because they do not exist in your region. That's not true though about the trit... you only need 13 or so million trit to build a abaddon for instance with a ME of 0. there's more than 13 Mill worth of trit in one belt in empire belts. ( we mine usually about 2 belts at a time and at the end of it all we typically end up with about 25-30+ mill of trit depending on if we concentrante solely on veld or not. so that's a battle ship per belt and they respawn fairly often enough that you could draw in enough materials in a week with a group of dedicated industry guys who know what their doing to provide loads of ships including bs's. There is also the issue that while I am mining Veldspar and Scordite 23 hours a day I could be ratting or running Level 4 missions and make more than enough ISK to just buy the Tritanium and import it. In actuality I can gather more Tritanium faster by ratting and using my ISK to buy it in empire and import it to 0.0 than i could by just mining it. So i suppose that running lvl 4 missions for an hr gets you as much trit and isk then gathering 10 or so people to clear a belt in the same amount of time and i suppose having to move it all the way out to your base of production while running the lvl 4's are all done within that same amount of time? we donate our time for that one day to fund the free ships and do 50/50 ops to pay people for their time as well to suppliment the weekly donation. given that we can build nearly all the ships we need and equipment as well our members dont have to grind as much to pay for their own goods and instead of spending it on ships spend it on better gear and implants... but i suppose your methods of looking out only for yourselves is a much better way of doing thing? Your argument doesn't make any sense because you are talking about one person running a Level 4 versus 10 people mining. If I have 10 people running level 4s and using all of their profits to purchase Tritanium off of the market versus 10 people in Hulks mining out belts in 0.0 space the people running Level 4s will be able to produce more Tritanium by the end of the week. Its not a matter of opinion its a fact. Do you really think if people could get more Tritanium faster by mining in 0.0 they wouldn't already be doing it? People strive in this game to make as much ISK as fast as they possibly can. you may make more in a hr that way but you have to deal with the logistics of moving the minerals and the risk is higher (usually) when you have to move goods through several jumps than and it takes time to do that as well in which your not earning any isk at all. Plus why do you need all that isk anyway whats the point in having 5 billion isk when you only fly sub capitol ships (talking myself here) I don't need to worry about tons of isk to suppliment my losses i just work on taking fewer losses so i don't have to grind missions or isk to support a pvp habit.

Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.10 22:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Niamota Olin Why do people assume that every 0.0 system or even constellation can be self sustaining mineral wise for production, its so far from the truth its laughable. I say again the majority of 0.0 systems do not have all the mins. Also to have an effective industry do you realise how many more pos's need to be put up for all the needed construction arrays, that of course then need fueling... all this just to try and be on level par with empire manufacturing, which it wont ever be from the base loss of 25% of your minerals from pos refining your ore... wonder how many also realise that refining in a pos ISN'T instant either, thus more pos's to refine quickly enough. For those trying to argue that non logistically supported 0.0 manufacturing is even remotely on par with empire needs to get there head out there ass and learn some facts. We use our pos's to build stuffs as well we don't refine in them obviously but yes the whole chain of production is a pain in the ass for any one or 4 people that's why you have people who handle each step independently of each other while still working together. we have one team who focus on gathering one on reprocessing and moving stuff that needs to be moved and one that handles production and if you keep your arrays in constant use by several people you can get alot done within a fair amount of time. each team is made up of several people so that the resonsiblilites are spread out and on one person going idle breaks the chain. Then there's a whole other group that handles the pos's and other stuff that needs to be done as well.
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.10 22:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Kepakh Originally by: Verlisia So i suppose that running lvl 4 missions for an hr gets you as much trit and isk then gathering 10 or so people to clear a belt in the same amount of time and i suppose having to move it all the way out to your base of production while running the lvl 4's are all done within that same amount of time? we donate our time for that one day to fund the free ships and do 50/50 ops to pay people for their time as well to suppliment the weekly donation. given that we can build nearly all the ships we need and equipment as well our members dont have to grind as much to pay for their own goods and instead of spending it on ships spend it on better gear and implants... but i suppose your methods of looking out only for yourselves is a much better way of doing thing? Qlanth is right on this one. I understand your point of view and I guess this is what CCP wanted to do with 0.0 but.. Example situation: I am looking for someone to build ships for me and I have 2 options: 1) Ship manufacturer with perfect skills who can rat/mission for 30M/hour and trade it for minerals worth 30M/hour. 2) Ship manufacturer with perfect skills who can mine minerals worth 15M/hour. I have no reason to hire a miner unless I hire 2 of them instead of 1 mission runners. What are the benefits of hiring the miners? Next to none. (miners might be actually cheaper workers...?) most miners i know who stick with industry eventually turn into producers ... mining may only make you 15 mill an hr in some cases but you neglect the fact that we can take those minerals that can build things that will sell for a much nicer profit aka i build one item that costs only 60k to build each and eventually sell them for over 500k a piece in one of the major trade hubs... so yes it may be less right now at that moment but it translates into a very nice profit margin when it sells off to the people who grind for 30 mill an hr. i usually play an hr to 2 a day everyother day of the week and i can clear 200 mill a week with only about 6-10 hrs of game time a week is mining so bad at that rate?
Verlisia	Posted - 2009.11.10 22:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Scatim Helicon Originally by: Kepakh I am starting to develope an idea here. While you transfer everthing into ISK/hour, one thing you overlook here is time value. That means that some people can work 'harder' for the same ISK... What if you could spent /input random number here/ hours less by grinding because you have x miners in your 0.0 space to get all the minerals you need? Except that there's no incentive for them to come down to our space. What do we have to offer them? "Hey guys come and mine in 0.0, the market is kinda crappy, you might get ganked by a HAC gang, you might get camped into an outpost or POS and make no money tomorrow, if we get invaded all your assets might be locked away in a station and lost forever, and even if none of that happens you'll still be making less money than you could be by staying safely in highsec!" What are 0.0 alliances supposed to offer to bring this mining army down to 0.0? Meet them out-of-game once every 3 months and give them candy floss and blowjobs? This would be nice

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