Originally by: Zastrow

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Every single 0.0 dweller in this thread is saying this is a bad idea. There is literally not a single person who thinks this is a good idea. There are some people trolling the 0.0 dwellers but no real debate.



After this dev blog, is there a SINGLE NEW ALLIANCE, just ONE, ANY NEW ALLIANCES who have read this blog and decided to move from empire to 0.0? ANYONE? ANYONE AT ALL?




Nullsec is now JUST. NOT. WORTH. IT. Balance the risk:reward. Look at the Cost:Benefit. There are HUGE COSTS in both time and effort for living in 0.0 and just not a single ****ing tangible benefit to make it worth your time.

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Originally by: rubico1337

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Originally by: The Mittani

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WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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Originally by: ian666

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Edited by: ian666 on 07/11/2009 06:38:50
Great changes, prices are good.

One last thing CCP - block usage of Jump Bridges by Freighters and Jump Freighters. Bring back good old player convoys and force people to do something else than solo killing rats 24/7. Make them move their own stuff by themselves more frequently - transport ships + jump bridges for better speed or freighter convoy's for corp things.

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Originally by: ian666

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Edited by: ian666 on 07/11/2009 06:52:38

Originally by: Zastrow

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Originally by: ian666

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Edited by: ian666 on 07/11/2009 06:38:50
Great changes, prices are good.

One last thing CCP - block usage of Jump Bridges by Freighters and Jump Freighters. Bring back good old player convoys and force people to do something else than solo killing rats 24/7. Make them move their own stuff by themselves more frequently - transport ships + jump bridges for better speed or freighter convoy's for corp things.

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Let's be honest here. Are you planning on living in 0.0 after reading this dev blog? If so, why? If not, why not?

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Yes i am, live in 0.0 will be moar interesting and challenging than is now. Many good 'old fashion' activites died in every of few last minor patches, because of jump bridges, jump freighters, wormholes (fast traveling), cyno jammers, cyno generators and other stuff that make this game quite simple, easy, and soloable.

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Originally by: Inferno Styx

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personally I'd cut the numbers in half. 1.25 billion for a max pimp'd systems sounds about right to me. I don't honestly think your going to see a lot of those systems around though. Huge alliances will probably get 10-15 in the future.

On the other subject about people not wanting to grind, I understand that isn't what you want to do and it's understandable. Given the current null sec environment (80% pvp characters and some indy/POS managers) it makes sense your there to pew-pew. However the point I want to make is that there are literally thousands of people out there who are willing to grind those rats and belts. The point I'm trying to make is that there are lots of ways to play the game and sometimes it's hard as hell to look at things from another perspective. Maybe big pvp alliances will start to have industrial wings that make cheap ships for them. Or the outer edges of your territory are open to those people who are willing to give you a cut of the profits in exchange for not getting hot dropped. There are also lots of people that will clear those crap anomalies and plex's.

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Originally by: Vivian Azure

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Originally by: Sethur Blackcoat

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Originally by: Vivian Azure

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You can call this area of 0.0 your home, and the sov-map will show it.

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Yeah, most people in 0.0 alliances aren't actually that narcissistic to pay 1+ bil/month just to see their alliance name in the upper left corner with no other tangible benefit, hth~

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So why did Goonswarm or any other alliance moved into 0.0 in the first place? 0.0 was never attractive when talking about ISK. The only interesting thing was moon-mining and some higher tier complexes.

The problem with you people is, that you want CCP to make the game into a Hello-kitty-Wonderland, where you don't have to incvest anything but can milk the cow. there's tons of games where you can do so.

EvE is a MMO and CCP emphatizes on the Massive Multiplayer part in 0.0. Now your members need to contribute to the whole thing, instead of just milking the cow with a few industrial players... I couldn't care less about you lazy bums actually.

Like I said. If my alliance keeps their valuable systems, outpost-systems and the systems needed for logistic, then we can cut down to somewhere around 20 systems that need to be claimed.
The money to pay the bills for these 20 systems is allready made in empire by our producers and the moon-mining-towers in low-sec and 0.0.

If you wanna claim more sace then that, well... be my guest and start working for it.

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Originally by: CCP Chronotis

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words words words

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Originally by: Vadinho

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Originally by: ceaon

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11% tax ??

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oh no you might have to set up a tax shelter corp

youll be out MILLIONS

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Originally by: CCP Chronotis

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Originally by: Salsbury

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Y'know, I have to admit that watching all this smack-talk about CCP from the people who don't like the changes is pretty funny. Epic pwnage by CCP!

It seems to me that the whole intent of CCP was to stir things up, reduce unused system sprawl, and make alliances really consider whether a system will be profitable to keep around. In this regard, I think they've already succeeded admirably.

In the 100+ posts I've read on this thread, one striking deficiency that I've noticed is the lack of almost any mention of cooperation, banding together, and INCREASING alliance inter-operation. This is, in fact, core to the design of what CCP is trying to accomplish. Getting more people out to 0.0, building new relationships between corps, encouraging renting out of sub-systems in alliance space, etc.

I've seen lots of people saying "small alliances won't be able to survive!" Well, start banding together with other smaller alliances, and become larger.

I've seen LOTS AND LOTS of funny PvP'ers whining that they simply won't be able to shoot enough stuff to pay the bills, while at the same time saying "mining is a **** profession" and the like. Well, it's time for you to learn how to cooperate with other players. You need to start getting some mining & industry going in your systems, to leverage those belts, rather than simply ignoring them, or ratting, then flying away. (You might even want to train some new skills, so you can produce some wealth in ways other than simply shooting stuff. You might be surprised.)

If it helps you to reframe the idea of cooperation, think of it as different strategic wings of a fleet. You've got some who are doing PvE ratting, protecting those who are helping to harvest those rocks and provide you with resources to build with/sell. You need to balance your skills & strengths to achieve the larger objective. One person can't do it all. That's the whole point of having fleets, corps, and alliances.

Think bigger than what you can do alone. Think about what you can accomplish together.

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excellent clarity of vision I must say!

It is true and something we said from outset that unbalanced alliances who are 95% PvP/Fleet and 5% industry will be most affected by this as we are reducing their dependency on passive point sources and introducing greater active resource density to allow for passive income to take over.

The alliances who will benefit most are those who have or aim to have balanced compositions of people with different playstyles or even act as enforcers or protectors of the space with multiple rental agreements if they wish and we will add tools as we call the treaty system to help facilitate that.

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Originally by: Breaker77

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Kinda funny that after goons, unaffiliated make up almost as much as everyone else combined.

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Originally by: Hendrik Stahl

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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And FYI, being a paying customer does not make you competent in game design.

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Apparently neither does being a game designer

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Originally by: Cefte

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Originally by: Normin Bates

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Originally by: Cefte

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[x] Ignorant of value of own time.
[x] No understanding of term 'opportunity cost'
[ ] Pathologically risk averse.

Two out of three for the empire pubbie trifecta.

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[x] Patently lazy and tear soaked goon.
[x] Unwilling to adapt.
[x] Fears losing vast areas of unused space.
[ ] Now seriously concerned about smaller alliances' ability to hold space.
[x] Hopes CCP will buckle under the tears posted here.
[ ] Is honest & genuine.

Fixed that for ya.

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- It's me I'm patently lazy
- I've literally just made an empire l4 running alt, gogo evolution.
- I visit every system in Goonswarm regions every three days. Gogo exploration!
- I'm not concerned about that at all. More pubbies to shoot would be great, but so would coca, and I just made myself coca. CCP seems to be concerned about it, though, and it's pretty funny how badly they're reliving Exodus, but you don't need to adhere to their vision to point out the gulf between vision and implementation.
- I have no hope that CCP will buckle under the tears here. When people in a position of massive authority start trolling their powerless critics, they're emotionally invested, and their ego will prevent them from backing down. This thread is more a pre-emptive 'we told you so'.
- Yassih, it's genu-wine Hires.

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Originally by: gambrinous

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Originally by: KeratinBoy

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What if, along with these changes, CCP decided to charge players through the nose for, well, the same experience?

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The updated patch notes now state that they are trying to reduce empire alt sprawl, you know, condense empire carebears into fewer, more lucrative alts. As a result you will have to pay 7 mill a day for any character that logs on in empire. To make things more lucrative, there are now 10 more lvl 3 agents in every system.

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Originally by: Marlona Sky

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Originally by: Zastrow

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Our dream for Dominion was that lucrative upgrades meant people lived in 0.0 instead of running L4 missions. Lucrative 0.0 upgrades means carebears are happy. More people actually living in 0.0 means more targets for combat players. People playing in the 0.0 sandbox means emergent gameplay so the developers are happy.


Unless 0.0 individual player income generation is lucrative and JUST WORTH IT, then you don't have carebears in 0.0. No carebears means no targets. No targets means pvpers leave. No emergent gameplay. Nobody's happy, everything sucks.

It all starts with making 0.0 profitable on the individual level. so there ok i just rehashed exactly what i said to ccp months ago, can we actually move forward now

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Zas, seriously, what happened? Did CCP just go in some completely different direction? During the Fanfest they said that the sov changes they took some ideas from you CSM, but is this it? Also, Helen Highwater stated that many of the upcoming changes in this expansion including the sov changes were spear-headed by Darius Johnson. What gives? I mean if this is what goons wanted to happen then why???

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Originally by: iP0D

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Originally by: Clone 10101

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Originally by: ShadowMaiden

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lose Local

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yes please.

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Sure, less targets in space :P

Goals for Dominion:

• bleed old x64 isk - yes, but based on very long term view


• less grind - no, still structures / timers / blob incentives


• faster pace of conflicts - yes, fast timers, less volume


• repopulate space - lol, fail

If we're going to have 0.0 repopulated again, it is going to have to be worth it for people to move there, only a minority of people are not sheep, and if we want to have easy fun ganks again and preying on easy players, then we first really need to actually get them out here again

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