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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 36 post(s)
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.07 22:37:00 - [1] Well done CCP. By posting the initial info with joke prices you've distracted everyone from the fact this patch is total crap. (My apologies to crap this kinda stuff could give it a bad name.) It would be crap if it was free. You still haven't learnt your lessons from all the previous times you've messed things up. So let me take you back to basics. Again. The reason Eve is popular is because it's a sandbox game on a larger scale than other games. It has glorious features like Concord - by which I mean it doesn't have places you can't be attacked, it has police who beat you up if you break the law. These are roleplaying features. Stuff that makes sense in game. You have 0.0 where in theory everything that happens is determined by the players. When you design a patch you should consider ALL these points mandatory: Risk/reward ratio. People do what profits them generally. This is NOT A BETA TEST. Adding new stuff is good. Breaking the old stuff is not. Does what you are doing make sense in the game world? Keep immersion. This is a roleplaying game! You want a realistic economy. Intelligent industrial/economic decisions are only possible with long term planning. You cannot have a meaningful economy if people can't plan ahead. This patch fails on every count. It takes what was wrong with Eve and makes it worse. You are punishing people MORE for operating in 0.0 when that is supposedly what you want (moving to 0.0 that is). You are deliberately breaking the work that people have built up over years. Stuff only other players should be able to take off them. You are taking the stupid sov system and making it worse and even more unbelievable - who are we paying these outrageous taxes to? Concord who can't control empire space? You are again destroying any planning people might have put into the game. And leaving us unable to even plan with the new stuff because it's so obviously stupid many more changes must be going to come to fix it. Next: What I'd have done.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.07 22:54:00 - [2] Yes sov needed fixing. It was stupid. It violates the most basic roleplaying and sandbox essentials. eg Sov 4 system - you can't attack the pos. Sez ooh? I mean really what the hell is going on here? This is a roleplaying game not some arcane mathematical puzzle. Example of a proper solution: 1) Remove sov totally. The whole concept. Dead. If people want to place a station, a pos, a jumpbridge, whatever in 0.0 only two things should be able to stop them. Either they can't afford the module - or players beat the hell out of them and won't let them. Not some arbitrary rule about you've only held the system for 60 days. Or you have to pay tax to um well who? A single requirement that a pos must have been down for a week to build up energy reserves before it can support anything fancy. 2) Cut down on grind. Introduce NPCs who will fuel your pos for you. Operating either from a station or storage module (high fitting costs though) you can fit at a pos they will fuel pos in system. And they do this by flying like Empire hauler npcs with very slow build up to warp. Easy targets for raiders. No grind for pos owners - but if you don't defend your space raiders can do some damage. One trip per day per pos. Of course if players want to grind away at fuelling their pos let them. But perhaps make the pos storage a bit smaller. So sieging/raiding can become realistic options. 3) Make pos and stations mutually supportive. Each pos/station comes with a built in shield transfer unit affair. When it's been active for a week it goes to the system defence net. And adds half it's own shield strength to every other station/pos in system. Maybe not if it's been attacked itself in the last 10 minutes encouraging attacking of multiple targets? This way well defended systems become stronger than currently to direct dread assault. And increase the chances for defenders to get there in time. 4) Give stations their own shields like pos so people can't be ganked right outside. 5) Make Eve bigger. Let people find more space. Real space not W-space. Let us fund missions through ordinary space to erect new bridges/gates to new areas. Just the basics of a system. Could add far more but I know you aren't listening. But dump your current patch. Don't tweak it. Dump it - it's total rubbish from the ground up.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.08 02:55:00 - [3] Supporters of this patch are coming out with bizarre dribble. "You should cooperate more.." "You shouldn't hog so much space and let others in.." "You'll have to stop living off all that R64 moon goo.." If these are the problems - why are we (the CVA) to whom none of these statements apply the alliance getting shafted the worst by this patch?
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.08 03:28:00 - [4] Originally by: Destrim Edited by: Aralis on 08/11/2009 02:56:25 Supporters of this patch are coming out with bizarre dribble. "You should cooperate more.." "You shouldn't hog so much space and let others in.." "You'll have to stop living off all that R64 moon goo.." If these are the problems - why are we (the CVA) to whom none of these statements apply - the alliance getting shafted the worst by this patch? its really tragic that the alliances this is supposed to be helping (like yourself) are the ones getting hit the hardest while the ones its supposed to be hurting (like myself) will just need to make minor adjustments to keep on living like we already do True. So, what changes would you propose to reverse the situation? Certainly, there needs to be more incentive for people to hold only a few systems, and invest time in those systems, besides penalizing them. Personally, I have little issue with the penalties... I just think the rewards are too weak. So, again, what would you propose for better infrastructure hub upgrades? The best sort of upgrades would be ratting upgrades, for people who play with single accounts it's easily the most effective way to make money in 0.0. So I'd like an upgrade like this: Concord Communication Array: <insert some RP BS about an uplink to the CONCORD criminal database here> For every level of this upgrade the value of rats increases by 10% - capping out at 50%. This upgrade also allows the alliance controlling the system to collect taxes on bounties from anyone ratting in the system, regardless of their alliance's relationship to them. Hmmm... I like that :) Now, ninja-ratters won't be such a huge problem, and allies stealing said rats wouldn't be as much a problem, either. But do you have any ideas about upgrades to the actual military infrastructure of the sovereign? I don't want different upgrades. I want the whole patch thrown in the bin. This is OUR space claimed on behalf of the Empire. Who are we paying these taxes to? If it's the Empire - well that's fantastic your Majesty - we're delighted to be accepted in the Empire. When can we expect Imperial patrols to start and navy sentry guns to be installed? If it's anyone else - eat laser death scumbag.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.08 16:10:00 - [5] Originally by: Gnulpie Edited by: Gnulpie on 08/11/2009 11:11:32 Originally by: CCP Chronotis excellent clarity of vision I must say! It is true and something we said from outset that unbalanced alliances who are 95% PvP/Fleet and 5% industry will be most affected by this as we are reducing their dependency on passive point sources and introducing greater active resource density to allow for passive income to take over. The alliances who will benefit most are those who have or aim to have balanced compositions of people with different playstyles or even act as enforcers or protectors of the space with multiple rental agreements if they wish and we will add tools as we call the treaty system to help facilitate that. Sorry to be rude, but that is the most idiotic dev post I have seen in a while. Plus it lacks total understanding of how 0.0 developed over the years until now. So, pure pvp alliances like Tri and IT will get shafted badly while alliances with a good deal of industry like CVA, Goons, NC etc. will benefit most? Can you back up your claim with any solid arguments and numbers besides the fact that we must believe you since you are a dev and know it better? Also the ONLY force in 0.0 should be players! The ONLY way to control systems and to gain sov should be due to the players! Not by removing some alliance tickers, not by not paying enough isk to some completely idotic npc-overlords in lawless space. It should be ALWAYS and ONLY the players in 0.0 And the whole idea of grinding to 'unlock' levels to get better stuff is a concept so out of the core Eve-concept that it is immensely sad to see Eve going this way. What only did happen to the original vision of Eve? No grinding, no levelling, no fixed paths forced to choose. Just freedom. All gone. Edit: But what do you have as vision? Fixed grinding paths to unlock certain features and forcing people to do things which they don't like - if they would like them to do they would do them already! - so that they can fit into a predetermined and fixed pattern. It is not details like paying a certain amount of isk or 10% less or earning xx% more in 0.0 than in high sec L4's. It is the WHOLE DIRECTION to force players doing something which they don't want to do, it is a model completely opposite of the sandbox model and contrary to the true spirit of Eve. And THAT is so alamring and bad. THIS. Someone gets it! Well done Gnulpie ty.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.08 17:42:00 - [6] No not WE Destrim. You (and some others). If the rewards were high and the maintenance low - this would still be crap. What happened to sandbox? What happened to epic? And to everyone suggesting a non linear cost for sov the same questions. What's the point of the game if the game itself won't LET you conquer your neighbours? Is this hello kitty? Most of us I think want sandbox, epic, freedom. We don't want to build our own little house in a nice row of identical houses with funny coloured windowboxes (which is about all these upgrades amount to). Even if the upgrades were any good what happened to game logic? How do you mystically upgrade the rats, the anomalies, the spawns? And if your answer is better detection why is this info available to everyone? Stop hiding and get off your butts CCP and make improvements to the game. Make it bigger. Develop it. Stop trying to create a different game every six months. And when you do make changes follow through. Even if we bought this pile of unmentionable **** at these new lower prices - what faith could we have that you wouldn't raise the maintenance costs soon as we bought it? What faith can we have in the stability of the game? This is a roleplaying game. Ask yourself what is happening in the Eve world and make it possible.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.08 17:55:00 - [7] By most people maybe. I posted my complaints weeks ago. Very reasonably I thought. And CCP gave it their usual consideration and ignored it totally.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.09 04:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Future Mutant Originally by: Hratli Smirks YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running. This is a really good question, and I bet CCP really doesn't want to answer it This question is ******ed and heres why- How much can a miner in god mode make in highsec? maybe 10 mill- how much can the same miner make in null? 60 mill+ Now can any of you goons tell me which number is higher- 10 mill or 60 mill? Do the math for other activities and null always wins- ratting- null makes more, plex sites- null makes more, missions- null makes more Is there any activity done in null that makes less then hisec? No because pretending to be a pirate makes the same amount no matter where you do it. How can you have the nerve to post when you are so ignorant? Throughout the vast majority of 0.0 it is NOT more profitable to mine than in high sec. Yes ratting makes more - but not compared to missions. FOr most of nullsec - what missions!? Nobody is disputing that faction owned space is a good place to be. Indeed many posters have suggested that's where everyone in 0.0 should run to. For the real claimable 0.0 there are NO missions.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.09 06:51:00 - [9] Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 09/11/2009 06:31:52 Originally by: Esplin YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running. I don't suppose you have considered that while yes anomalies will be as profitable as level 4 missions, you will also have additional lucrative sources of income not readily available in high sec. More lucrative, hidden belts might mean you will have to actually have some people on hand that know how to mine properly (and profitably). Repeated claiming that nobody mines in null sec because it isn't as profitable as ratting makes you look a bit... inept. Sorry. Upgraded mini-profession sites (which admittedly could use some tweaking), high end complexes, and access to more and better Wormholes are all money makers that are either not readily available or will be rarer or of lower quality than in Empire space. Of course there are still your high end moons, which while not as valuable as before are still a resource most often found in null sec (or at worst within easy range of null sec). I don't think what we currently have proposed in Dominion is perfect yet, far from it. However singling out one of the several high end upgradeable revenue streams that will be available to you, and then quoting each other endlessly because because one of them is "merely" as profitable as the best monetary resource in the game is pretty short sighted. Utterly irrelevant. You can only do one of these things at a time. Unlimited numbers of you could do level 4 missions. So at BEST you only need to count the best resource in 0.0.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.09 07:42:00 - [10] There is no irony at all Ranger. They don't want to carebear. If their carebearing income sucks it means they have to do it for longer. ANd they'd need to do it a lot to support these ridiculous sov mechanics. And cost is just the obvious part of the problem. Only a few people like Gnulpie have really latched on to what is so wrong with this sov part of the patch.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.09 16:29:00 - [11] Kalisti also has a lot of good ideas.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.09 16:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Edited by: Isaac Starstriker on 09/11/2009 16:47:41 What I get from this thread: (I am no longer arguing mechanics, you ppl are flippin nuts on this) 1) whaaaaa change is scary1!!!!!111 2) Because we were so epic, worked so hard for what we own, there should be NO change WHATSOEVER. How DARE you make us change our playstyle!!!11!!! (Which btw has been changing for the last 4+ years. IE: exploration, POS setups, Orca, Jump drives, T2, T3, combat styles (removal of nano=invincible), I could go on here....) Aralis, I'm looking at you on this. CVA, while I may support them in their goals, (Amarr Victor!) doesn't deserve special treatment. Your asking that it should. That's what I get from your posts. Your complaint is that there is a change period. So? Change happens. You also constantly quote "RP reasons" but hey dude: since when does infinite moon resources make any logical RP Sense ever? Or invulnerable POSes? Current 0.0 mechanics make no sense whatsoever RP wise. 3) Small Alliances have no chance of taking sov. So they have no chance now? LOL. Without a massive Dread fleet, trillions of isk and 1000s of members, small alliances have little to no chance. This expansion gives us a chance. (We only need hundreds of dreads, not thousands )(Btw, who said anything about 1 small alliance per area? Have fun defending against many alliances. CVA sure does) This whole argument is bogus. Small alliances will either A: take systems or B: not. CCP cannot give us a solution to this as that would require they nerf Goonies and we all know those annoying bees will never stop . But really, we cannot cater to smaller alliances, at the same time, this expansion gives them the best chance they have. Because right now, they sure as hell have no chance of getting any. 4) Isk VS Reward =/= equate. So....what's your point? Low-sec has S*** reward for high-risk, yet I've had the most fun in low-sec. This argument is also pointless. People will come to 0.0 for their own reasons. Your never going to convince lvl 4 runners to come to low/null sec. Even if you remove lvl 4s altogether. Even if 0.0 was 2x more profitable. That is HUMAN NATURE. You all scream and yell, yet in the big scheme of things, it means...well, it means w/e. CCP will listen but ultimately, your opinion is 1 of hundreds of thousands. Just because your suggestion is not taken doesn't mean CCP doesn't listen. Also, quit maxing out systems with cyno-jammers and jump bridges. You'll find funny enough, your isk cost is drastically reduced. --Isaac P.S. nothing in this post is mechanic-accurate, but is spirit-accurate. Isaac I am not and have never defended the level 4 sov mechanism. It's stupid. The whole sov CONCEPT is stupid. But this patch makes things worse not better.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:59:00 - [13] Edited by: Aralis on 10/11/2009 04:02:50 OK suggestion for salvaging the patch based somewhat on what you're doing already. Big changes but not starting from scratch - which is what you should be doing. 1) These industrial and military upgrades - most people think they are worthless but if they benefit anyone it will be noobs and encourage them into 0.0. You're gonna make them cheap anyway. So what the heck - upgrade all systems to this standard automatically. What's the downside? 2) Remove the FLAGs and hubs altogether. This whole sov business is ridiculous really. Who says you have sov, who are you paying taxes to? If you really want a sov marker for maps base it on ownership of stations - a real mark of real power. Isn't stations what it's supposed to revolve around now anyway? 3) Remove the cynodamper, cynobeacon, jumpbridge pos mods from the game totally - and make them station upgrades instead on a different path. None of this silly maintenance but if you think they should be expensive make them appropriately so. And remove this fuelling grind for jumpbridges. 4) Give stations defences upgrades. 5) Sometime soon get around to the really important stuff of making Eve bigger and helping explorers find new starts and new regions to take stuf to. Some real exploration with slow running between systems into the void or expensive robots sent out ahead to generate a cynobeacon there for you.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.11 01:13:00 - [14] Originally by: Tesal Originally by: Dante Edmundo Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 10/11/2009 22:29:36 >> but it does make 0.0 more appealing for the player base at large. No - it doesn't. YES OR NO: Dominion is a Sov nerf, but a resource buff. Yes it's a sov nerf. No it's not a resource buff. Please engage brain before posting.
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.11 01:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Tesal Originally by: ep1k Originally by: Kepakh You can make silly ISK in wormholes by sleeper gridning, still the space is dead empty. Stop doing things the way it doesn't work. There are several people in this thread saying they currently make good money in wormhole space and wanted to move their corps to 0.0. But the isk income is not enticing enough for them to do it. they want to do something. but wont do something that actually hurts them. People dont want to make less money to take longer to do what they enjoy. so yes, iw oudl say income does alter these peoples positions. You can keep ignoring the point of this expansion all you want, and you will continue to miss the point. This was supposed to drive people to nullsec, and it wont untill there are increased incentives. No this was supposed to fix Sov and get rid of afk empires. This is not the patch for the carebears to rise up from Jita and fly into 0.0. So according to you are there any non afk empires?
Aralis Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.18 05:10:00 - [16] Originally by: Cearain Originally by: Gramtar Since we've gone almost two weeks without answers to our basic concerns (risk vs reward out of balance between lev 4 mission running in highsec and comparable pve activities aka ratting in 0.0), I'm not sure what you mean by balance here. Anyone can get their sec status high enough to run level 4 high sec missions. Its not an ôimbalanceö against any type of character or faction. If you think running level 4 missions is so great then get a jump clone in high sec and go to it. DonÆt be bothered with the paltry sums you can make in null sec. Is trading unbalanced because people make billions per hour trading with little risk? Does trading need to be nerfed? It seems that the only thing we hear about in null sec is this or that capital ship battle where ungodly amounts of isk are blown up. If there is that much isk that can be lost at the blink of an eye then the current mechanics of isk making in null sec would seem to be a good deal better than many in this thread would have us believe. If big alliances in null sec did have to earn isk by running level 4 missions, like just about everyone else in eve, then maybe null sec would be more fun. [/b] Most money spent in 0.0 IS earnt in high sec. It's much easier to earn money there which currently is then spent in 0.0 for fun.

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