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Alice Rubidinous
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.07 00:17:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Alice Rubidinous on 07/11/2009 00:22:26 CCP just introduced a change, which within the barest of calculations (30 systems per region., 50 regions, 30 mil per day per system = 45 billion/day) creates a killer ISK sink.
How long will it be before self-destructing Rokhs is the most profitable profession in EVE?
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2009.11.07 00:20:00 -
[2]
I concur.
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LarcatOfRens
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Posted - 2009.11.07 00:45:00 -
[3]
Whats the change?
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Mystical Dawn
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.07 00:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Alice Rubidinous Edited by: Alice Rubidinous on 07/11/2009 00:22:26 CCP just introduced a change, which within the barest of calculations (30 systems per region., 50 regions, 30 mil per day per system = 45 billion/day) creates a killer ISK sink.
How long will it be before self-destructing Rokhs is the most profitable profession in EVE?
Except that if there is war going on, you need tritanium to keep those Super Carriers and Dreadnoughts kicking....
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Signore Kaeota
Caldari Terra Incognita
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Posted - 2009.11.07 02:33:00 -
[5]
yay! The value of isk should rise!
Also I heard that as you get more space, the cost rises.
-_-_-_-
I, Signore Kaeota, hereby apologise for any and all offence caused by the contents of this above post, and all others that I have written, or otherwise been responsible for.
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Jacqueri Calroszian
The Program
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Posted - 2009.11.07 03:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Mystical Dawn
Originally by: Alice Rubidinous Edited by: Alice Rubidinous on 07/11/2009 00:22:26 CCP just introduced a change, which within the barest of calculations (30 systems per region., 50 regions, 30 mil per day per system = 45 billion/day) creates a killer ISK sink.
How long will it be before self-destructing Rokhs is the most profitable profession in EVE?
Except that if there is war going on, you need tritanium to keep those Super Carriers and Dreadnoughts kicking....
Wait... forgive me if this sounds stupid - but did you just say Dreadnoughts and Motherships will have a mineral upkeep now?
I don't remember seeing or hearing this anywhere.
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Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.07 04:06:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mystical Dawn Except that if there is war going on, you need tritanium to keep those Super Carriers and Dreadnoughts kicking....
Wars?? No one will have to fight wars. They will be too busy ratting just to try to pay the bills.
All the big alliances are throwing a fit here.
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Signore Kaeota
Caldari Terra Incognita
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Posted - 2009.11.07 04:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jacqueri Calroszian Wait... forgive me if this sounds stupid - but did you just say Dreadnoughts and Motherships will have a mineral upkeep now?
I don't remember seeing or hearing this anywhere.
No, he meant that ships die and it costs minerals to replace them.
-_-_-_-
I, Signore Kaeota, hereby apologise for any and all offence caused by the contents of this above post, and all others that I have written, or otherwise been responsible for.
-_ |
Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2009.11.07 04:42:00 -
[9]
This suddenly made me like Dominion quite a lot more. ----------------
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Tesal
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Posted - 2009.11.07 05:48:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tesal on 07/11/2009 05:48:30 Its about 25-75 million per day in upkeep costs *for Sov* in the Dev Blog. Pos are IN ADDITION to that. [i]never stop posting...with alts. Please do not use inappropriate language in your sig. Zymurgist |
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Yes ThisIsMyAlt
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Posted - 2009.11.07 05:54:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tesal Edited by: Tesal on 07/11/2009 05:48:30 Its about 25-75 million per day in upkeep costs *for Sov* in the Dev Blog. Pos are IN ADDITION to that.
So maybe there will finally be some incentive to recruit "carebears" and have their carebear alts actually in the corp with them, in the space they own.
Darn it. They have to actually live in and use the space they own now? That can't be right!
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Alice Rubidinous
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.07 06:06:00 -
[12]
I really wish it were so. (Allowing more carebears, industrialists into nullsec). It is not so. There will be fewer bears...next to L4 mission running, nullsec ratting will be horrible after DOM. No boost in isk/hr, major boost in risk.
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2009.11.07 07:21:00 -
[13]
Yeah, I don't see how anyone thinks any part of this will incentivize recruiting industrialists. Hardcore plex runners are what corps are going to want. Corps with high taxes are what alliances are going to want. ----------------
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Chalrynn Illyndar
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.11.07 07:40:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lui Kai Yeah, I don't see how anyone thinks any part of this will incentivize recruiting industrialists. Hardcore plex runners are what corps are going to want. Corps with high taxes are what alliances are going to want.
Only for a little while before prices on deadspace loot tanks...
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.07 10:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Alice Rubidinous I really wish it were so. (Allowing more carebears, industrialists into nullsec). It is not so. There will be fewer bears...next to L4 mission running, nullsec ratting will be horrible after DOM. No boost in isk/hr, major boost in risk.
Quote: The military index is based upon killing NPCs, a favourite past time of many of you and you get more points, the bigger the NPC is. Simple and straightforward!
- Military - allow your systems to have additional anomalies and other exploration dungeons within your space such as encounters and complexes and wormholes
I know it is difficult to differentiate "such as" from "only" but if your read both quotes CCP meaning seem to be: - Increasing your military index will increase NPC in several ways, some of those are more encounters, complexes and wormholes but it is not limited to those.
Note too that you don't know what the upgrade encounter will spawn and if the increased military index will affect belt NPC too.
As usual, going "crystal ball" on a single Dev blog is a great way to failed predictions.
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.11.07 10:21:00 -
[16]
Maybe this will make up for the awfulness that is sleeper-tags and the, however small it is, ISK faucet it creates.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.07 10:22:00 -
[17]
Quote:
All the big alliances are throwing a fit here.
After several years of heavy POS exploits, dominating moon goo and fielding hundreds of caps per fight thanks to that, now they have to put actual effort?
The universe came to an end. - Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Ebanni
Ebanni Mercantile
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Posted - 2009.11.07 12:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Breaker77 All the big alliances are throwing a fit... .
Boo-friggity-hoo.
The "big alliances" have had EvE handed to them on a silver platter for years. Now that their "empires" will take actual effort to maintain (read: upkeep) their control, the flood of moaning and griping is pretty much the biggest example of FAIL I've seen in a long time.
They will do what they have to, which is to say fortify and focus on their most strategic and valuable systems, and their internal tax rates will likely go up to meet the new ISK demands as they slowly expand their borders.
Then the alleged impact of "DUST" on the new Sov system will be felt sometime next year. I frakking love it!
BRAVO to CCP for really shaking things up.
Wars, wars and more wars. Let the fun begin.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.07 12:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Edit: it's market all over again. If the patch sucks, demand (people bothering with 0.0 or just bothering with the game any more) will drop and CCP will sell cheaper (= buff & make less painful) till demand increases again. The first days will be fun and profitable, like every time there's a spike.
This.
It is pre nerfed on Sisi (maybe, no one has really tested it from what I see).
Almost a month to release and you think CCP will not fiddle with numbers till the last day?
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Dzil
Caldari Sausage Banking
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Posted - 2009.11.07 14:53:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ebanni
Originally by: Breaker77 All the big alliances are throwing a fit... .
Boo-friggity-hoo.
The "big alliances" have had EvE handed to them on a silver platter for years. Now that their "empires" will take actual effort to maintain (read: upkeep) their control, the flood of moaning and griping is pretty much the biggest example of FAIL I've seen in a long time.
They will do what they have to, which is to say fortify and focus on their most strategic and valuable systems, and their internal tax rates will likely go up to meet the new ISK demands as they slowly expand their borders.
Then the alleged impact of "DUST" on the new Sov system will be felt sometime next year. I frakking love it!
BRAVO to CCP for really shaking things up.
Wars, wars and more wars. Let the fun begin.
Yea friggin right. All this means is the alliance mechanic will be abandoned in favor of non-game recognized "blue"ing each other, to keep upkeep costs to a minimum. Probably better that way anyways since there's less opportunity to disband a whole empire from one disgruntled director, but maintaining diplomacy (who is blue to who) will be a nightmare.
This idea is completely fail and will be horribly abused, imo.
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
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Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dzil Yea friggin right. All this means is the alliance mechanic will be abandoned in favor of non-game recognized "blue"ing each other, to keep upkeep costs to a minimum. Probably better that way anyways since there's less opportunity to disband a whole empire from one disgruntled director, but maintaining diplomacy (who is blue to who) will be a nightmare.
This idea is completely fail and will be horribly abused, imo.
This...
You don't need sov except to build supercaps. Only now without cyno jammers in every system you want to control you will have to worry about hotdrops. Most alliance will not give up the space they own, just the sov map will be pretty empty.
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Bradley Strider
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ebanni Wars, wars and more wars. Let the fun begin.
Why would there be many wars? There will be less incentive for large scale conflicts...
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Ebanni
Ebanni Mercantile
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Posted - 2009.11.07 17:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Bradley Strider
Originally by: Ebanni Wars, wars and more wars. Let the fun begin.
Why would there be many wars? There will be less incentive for large scale conflicts...
Because people get bored. Because sooner or later, roaming small ship gangs and chain ratting and gate camps gets boring. Because sooner *rather* than later, the bright spark adapts to the changes in the game and takes advantage of it and "the other guy" either reacts by rallying his troops or he loses his space.
Because people want to "win".
Sooner or later, it will happen -- or why bother playing.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.07 18:25:00 -
[24]
I think something no one bothered to understand so far is that Dominion is not (just) the lolcoveted sov remake.
So follows my totally drunken lolanalysis (actually it's a medicine), bear with me
------------------------
Dominion is about CCP ran their analysis and discovered what any MD regular knows since months: there's vastly too many ISK around.
As I said many times, the game got old. Players, even the bad ones, adapted and improved on ISK generation. Alliance suckled every possible way to gain isk themselves.
And so, it became possible to buy much stuff. To make titans used as teleports instead of being the awe inspiring "I took a screenshot, I have seen that thing!". To make dreads in the hundreds to the point that even my 2009 remade corp (not even in 0.0 atm) can give them *free* (carriers also) to the corp members.
This money flow is also visible in MD, the recently shown graphs demonstrate an increase of IPOs and bonds over time. Plus, not only they increase, but the general availability of invest-able capital far exceeds them, to the point of accepting less safe investments for the sake of putting that money somewhere.
Due to willing to cash in this vast amount of money and thus stuff being purchased so much, everyone and their mother put up capitals / BS etc production lines killing any profit in the name of volume. Moon goo being exploitable also created both huge money and huge over-abundancy of material. Those factors, along with the pre-miner bots nerf, caused tritanium to skyrocket up. It's some RL-alike years long trend so it's also hard to spot quick.
Now, CCP nerfed mining bots but they did not stop there. With less bots trit would have skyrocketed up even more, so they hugely boosted minerals availability and made them crash.
The next logical move is to kill missions income (roids create minerals out of nowhere, missions create minerals and isk out of nowhere and dictate a lot of the game cash flow) or to make life more expensive, to illude people L4 missioning is still the magic, all solving cash cow. CCP has seen what happens at the very mention of nerfing L4 missions so instead of an oral bitter pill, they are going up off the opposite side: the butt.
Result: being less able to control vast amounts of everything and paying so much, alliances will get out of 0.0. Or will keep the "worth" systems. Less forces to defend them because when territory shrinks the need of huge infrastructures and lots of supercapitals drops (bigger ships for a bigger empire. A bit like in Star Wars btw). You'll want agile fleets able to turn up at a whim and defend with little preadvice. Titan nerf comes exactly to allow for such agile fleets to be viable (see, this IS a drunken analysis, I see martians).
Result: much more cash burned just to exist. Fragmentation of the huge alliances. More logistics (market hint). Possible increased need of stations (for the higher density of people). Still requirement of more POSes than anticipated. Less requirement for huge ships. Roids can later be returned to the "spawn smaller and every x days" to appreciate tritanium again.
=
Game deflation. End of easily sacrificed huge supercaps fleets. Game "reset" back by years.
End of tin foil hat, drunken analysis. - Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.07 18:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Dominion is about CCP ran their analysis and discovered what any MD regular knows since months: there's vastly too many ISK around.
Anyone concerned about what this might do to the plex market? Will plexes skyrocket in price or will it stay the same or even go down if more people try to get fast ISK from them?
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LifeLines
Capital Construction Research
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Posted - 2009.11.07 18:47:00 -
[26]
whats stopping them from creating alt alliances to keep the costs down?
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Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.07 18:57:00 -
[27]
Originally by: LifeLines whats stopping them from creating alt alliances to keep the costs down?
It costs the same per system if you have 1 or 1000 systems you pay for.
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.07 20:33:00 -
[28]
1. Alliance space gets smaller on the maps 2. Some corp systems will get all the upgrades 3. Corp taxes go up 4. Mandatory corp ops more likely 5. Alliance dues go up to pay for the stuff
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Phoebe Halliwel
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Posted - 2009.11.08 01:59:00 -
[29]
Apart from the impact on alliances in 0.00, I think the OP raised a relevant point.
How will such a massive ISK sink affect the game in general?
Measures of this may be minerals, moon materials, t2 ships, plex, cap ships, supercaps, character prices, modules, faction modules, ice prices, BPOs (in particular Caps and t2)...yada yada
Does anyone have an opinion on how the overall economy will react to this change (as presented by CCP in its current state)?
A lot of people seem to be assuming that these changes will only affect alliance holders in 0.00; I very much doubt this will be the case, but I would be interested to hear other's thoughts.
Obviously the changes are not confirmed as yet; but does anyone in MD have a projection for these changes and how they will or could affect the markets?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.08 02:10:00 -
[30]
You could have read few posts above to find some projections - Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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