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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
kylie taome	Posted - 2009.11.09 17:50:00 - [1] after 7 months of dynasty internal forums discussions with manalapan (where he promised ) a comeback/liqidation of assests and some repayment. he had stoped posting weeks ago on the internal forum and now the site is gone. farewell and good riddance.
flakeys Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.11.09 17:52:00 - [2] R.I.P. to one of the most silent scammers i have seen in my eve time.
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.09 18:16:00 - [3] Originally by: kylie taome farewell and good riddance. It's easy to be a ****wad from behind the screen, isn't it? Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
kylie taome	Posted - 2009.11.09 18:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: kylie taome farewell and good riddance. It's easy to be a **wad from behind the screen, isn't it? yes and im sure u listened to all his bull*t over the last 5 months then
flakeys Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.11.09 18:27:00 - [5] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: kylie taome farewell and good riddance. It's easy to be a ****wad from behind the screen, isn't it? So you are saying it shows good business when you keep people on the line for about 7 monhts with all sorts of fantasy stories and then pulling the plug after not having posted for weeks without even a small response? Yeah customers should appreciate the work he has done , you are right, and applaud him for giving it his best. No really how much effort is it to just post:Sorry i am pulling the plug? No really?
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.09 18:33:00 - [6] Whut? I don't understand what you're trying to say here... Can you explain it in simple for me? Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Dzil Caldari United Kings Holdings	Posted - 2009.11.09 18:36:00 - [7] I'm getting Deja Vu, here, and the need to post something about clearance to take over the DBANK name for launching Dzil Bank. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Kitchie Gallente Vikramaditya	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:21:00 - [8] As the last snowflake seems to have been consumed in the flames, I guess I might as well impart some of the inside story. In the past Manalapan had never been good at providing details on DBANK's internal functioning but his reports were well done, he was a really nice guy and he had promised to delegate responsibility and open up the bank to senior staff once the logisitcs and safety mechanisms had been worked out. We were therefore content to take him on his word about the bank's state. However, cracks and question marks had already started appearing before the original site failure. Manalapan was logging in less and less frequently, sometimes absent for over a week or longer and his logins would be, at best, only for a few minutes. Feeble and nonsensical excuses given when questioned about absences. We had tried to implement a new accounting and reporting system for the bank but the numbers Man was giving didn't make sense. On trying to clarify these Man stopped replying to posts There was a plan to open a DBANK stock exchange and Man posted a code snippet he'd written in PERL (he'd already stated that he didn't know PHP). It was terrible code and full of errors. It was then apparent that Man was not a programmer though he claimed he was the one maintaining the bank's site and systems The promised delegation of responsibility was not happening or even a plan for it given The more questions we asked about discrepencies, the more opaque, evasive and distant Man became Things weren't making sense and we knew that with Man spending so little time online, there was no way enough ISK could be being made to cover interest payments. At this point I resigned as I was not comfortable with the developments and I was in the transition period when the site failure occurred. Exec Order, who was the most senior and respected active staff member, was also very uncomfortable but felt he could not resign as there was no one else who would process withdrawals. So why didn't we say anything publicly? Although we all liked Manalapan and had complete trust in his integity, we had also learned that he was really quite fragile. Any antagonism or criticism would send him into his shell and he was incapable of acknowledging or accepting any failures of his own. Awkward questions or clarifications would just be totally ignored by him, as if they didn't exist. So we knew from experience that the only chance of keeping Manalapan functioning within DBANK was to soothe and protect his fragile ego in the hope that the promised delegation of responsibility would happen and our concerns about Man would then not be an issue. Our concerns, however, were about the future of the bank and we trusted Manalapan totally and therefore did not think there were any current problems.
Kitchie Gallente Vikramaditya	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:31:00 - [9] The website failure and aftermath Although angry with Man, we were not totally surprised by his disappearance. We already knew that under duress, he would flee and hide. This was not an issue of dishonesty but a function of his personality. So we waited patiently for him to recover and return. We did not expect it take as long as it did. However, the web site failure had exposed what had already been suspected. Manalapan knew nothing about the DBANK systems and that it was in fact Iknota who ran and maintained the website and Database. Manalapan could not come back until Iknota had fixed the systems and Iknota had long ago lost interest in Eve. We have experienced programmers within the staff at DBANK who volunteered to help but that would have meant Manalapan admitting that he actually knew nothing about the systems and his ego would not let him do that. Iknota eventually got around to relaunching the site and Manalapan returned and wanted to resurrect the bank. Four of us volunteered to continue working with him to achieve this. But we were not going to do this without Man letting go of the reins as we now knew that he was not reliable enough to be left solely in control. We developed plans for the relaunch but needed to know exactly what state the bank was in before we could proceed. It was at this point that we discovered there was a 220 billion ISK hole in the accounts, roughly 30% of deposits. Manalapan claimed this was a bad loan but there was no borrower and we knew that was not true. Man started retreating again and so we did our best to come up with a feasible strategy to recover this and keep Man online. Unfortunately none of us had the vaguest idea how you would go about successfully trading hundreds of billions of ISK and so we were grilling Man on how he did it. He didnÆt answer and that was the last that we heard from him. He claimed in the public forum that we had deserted him but that was not the case. In retrospect, itÆs apparent that Manalapan never was the brilliant trader that weÆd all believed he was and that the bulk of DBANKÆs interest payments had been made from depositors funds and thus the 200 billion deficit. And, as we now know, ManalapanÆs ego would never allow him to admit this and his one attempt to try and fill the ever increasing deficit ended in the bank being scammed out of 80 billion. His behaviour and withdrawal leading up to the web failure were now explainable: he was getting more and more stressed by the ever increasing deficit, could not admit it and ask for help and had no idea what to do. I still believe that Manalapan is fundamentally honest and the bankÆs failure weighed very heavily on him. He hoped beyond hope that when he came back we would somehow be able to wave a magic wand and everything would be ok but it became apparent that it wasnÆt going to happen. I think that Manalapan is probably broken at the moment as fear of failure is his worst nightmare. I hope he gets over it.......
Drab Cane Carbenadium Industries	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:32:00 - [10] Burnout. Plain and simple. ----------------------------------------------- - Who Dares, Wins

Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:37:00 - [11] The only questions that I have right now are: Where is the remaining isk? Who had their hands in the cookie jar, even if for legitimate reasons? What should happen to that isk now? Do those individuals get to keep it? Titan BPC Auction Thread
Kitchie Gallente Vikramaditya	Posted - 2009.11.10 03:47:00 - [12] Edited by: Kitchie on 10/11/2009 03:51:02 I'm fairly sure that the bulk of the remaining funds are still with Manalapan though he was using a new anonymous alt on his return. I've forgotten the name offhand and although he is on my buddy list, I can't remember which one. I'll try and confirm but he hasn't been online for weeks. The numbers that I mention above, concerning the deficit, were given to us by Man himself and we don't have any independent verfication but I think he was being straight. In fact all our interactions, discussions etc. were done through the DBANK forum and with that now being dead, all the records are lost.
Frenden Dax Dax Acquisitions	Posted - 2009.11.10 05:45:00 - [13] I never put a cent into DBANK and this is exactly why. Any of the older MD people will remember Fury Bank, which was also a one-man-show and also collapsed when that one man disappeared. DBANK was pretty much the same thing, warmed over. Man had all the isk, controlled all access to it, and was the sole revenue generator for the bank. That screams 'massive burnout risk' like nothing else. It's not like I didn't say the exact same damn thing eight months ago though. Because I did, but it looks like it didn't do anything. Originally by: Karanth Or, in other words, random people can't usurp rights from government because they are insane/bitter/vengeful/made of potato salad.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.10 08:22:00 - [14] Quote: Any antagonism or criticism would send him into his shell and he was incapable of acknowledging or accepting any failures of his own. This means he had a personality defect that shows he should not lead a bank. Best leaders I knew were always able to speak to their team and accept responsibilities for failure (something I suck at :S descends off her own high horse) Quote: Although angry with Man, we were not totally surprised by his disappearance. We already knew that under duress, he would flee and hide. This was not an issue of dishonesty but a function of his personality. And this is your responsibility to support someone that in case of contrariety goes in a corner suckling his thumb. Because people will keep depositing money because by proxy you defend his ways to act. Quote: I still believe that Manalapan is fundamentally honest and the bankÆs failure weighed very heavily on him. One man shows. Says all. Your post tells more about why, and this is informative. Quote: Man had all the isk, controlled all access to it, and was the sole revenue generator for the bank. That screams 'massive burnout risk' like nothing else. I think he did a common mistake: believe that loans interests would cover depositors interests. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Mme Pinkerton Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.10 08:31:00 - [15] Thanks to Kitchie for giving us this information. @Manalapan Many people in your situation would have called "it was a scam all along" trying to make failure look like success. I honestly respect you for not doing so. I hope your silence is not a sign of you not feeling able to face MD any longer, but a sign of you having truly realized that EVE is just a game (you don't feel seriously bad or have to apologize all over the place each time you lose at Parcheesi, do you?). Good Luck! Yes, my DBANK account balance was probably only few 100k and certainly not more than a few millions. Nevertheless I feel compelled to post on this matter as it is essential to MD as a whole. It should always be "easier" to honestly state failure than to burn out trying to fix what is beyond repair (has a thoughtful look at the EBANK building). History shows this is generally not the case and while personal pride certainly plays an important part in this, the general environment does add its toll, too (if you had failed at business in my home country even a few decades ago, you would be socially labeled as a a "bankrotteur" for the rest of your life. The US on the other hand has a very different tradition regarding the perception of business failure). It is certainly subject to debate how the environment of MD works out in practice and I shy away from making a blanket statement along the lines of "it's way too negative" - but please take the time and consider this issue. @VV: looking for a quote that I just can't find anymore, I skimmed through the Zarathustra. There's a paragraph titled "The Flies in the Market-place". Read it. " Credit is the economic judgement on the morality of a man. "
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.10 10:26:00 - [16] I read it but it's in an English I don't understand - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Dzil Caldari United Kings Holdings	Posted - 2009.11.10 14:23:00 - [17] Banker in the back room stealin' your dough. Manny is it solvent? No child, no. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
RothimusPrime	Posted - 2009.11.10 16:49:00 - [18] As a former employee of DBANK, I'd like to confirm Kitchie's story as completely accurate. There's nothing more to say or explain, Kitchie summed it up precisely. The only 3 I knew of as having bank funds were Man, Exec, and Kitchie. I remember Kitchie returning the funds he had as he explained and as I recall Man confirmed this. Man removed my employee forum access when I began challenging him on his posts, explanations, and answers to our questions. Therefore, I was not privvy to any further information.
flakeys Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.11.10 18:28:00 - [19] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton It should always be "easier" to honestly state failure than to burn out trying to fix what is beyond repair (has a thoughtful look at the EBANK building). . As i stated above , mana could not even have the decency to say:sorry i ****ed up and am keeping isk before throwing the forums down. His last words where from a few weeks back stating that he was abandoned by his staff but was working on a solution-the solution he was talking about for 7 months and had no progress appart from his own dreams.I responded with the question why he stated that now when we all had seen a post from staff a month or more before his stating everyone had left Dbank appart from mana. Mana lived in a dreamworld and i think kitchie might have hit the right spot.He has a too big ego to admit his faillure and publicly state his apologies.For the isk he probably still has in his pockets i'd say that's the least you can do. Hell i'd apologise for anything you want if you send me a few hundred bille.
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.11.10 19:10:00 - [20] Interesting stories about DBANK. 1. The launch I had several chats with Manalapan when DBANK was launching on AIM. Both Mana and Iknota were involved. I was toying with the idea of joining (I was not as well known at the time), and Hexx was also consulting. I would have been in charge of communication and marketing. Hexx and I were very keen for DBANK to launch as a place in the middle of the market. Interest rates in the 4-7% that would offer customers an alternative (to the supposedly safe EBANK). Mana was determined to run at a higher rate (around 10%). Both hexx and I argued against this as it would be difficult to turn a profit. When discussing the mechanisms it was being set up as Iknota running the database and Mana handling ALL the cash. I wanted a BOD set up and the ISK spread around to help protect the investor. These points about interest rate, cash handling, risk and BOD could never be agreed upon so I declined to join the bank. 2. Summer 2008 Last summer I was brokering a loan for 20B for a customer, so I spoke to Manalapan about it. This was when DBANK was about 250B I think. Mana told me a fully collateraized loan could be arranged for 6.5% per month interest rate. I grabbed Mana on AIM where we had a discussion about his loan book. I told him that loaning money out at 6.5% would lose money because his interest rates were 10%. I told him DBANK wouldn't make any money on their loan book or their share portfolio as all retruns were under his current interest rate. I was then offered a position on the board by Mana to manage all loans and the share portfolio. I told him I would think about it if he would spread the ISK (risk) amongst appointed board members and that the rates on the accounts were changed to a more competitive level (3.0 - 4.5%). This was the only way that DBANK had any chance of making money or surviving. Mana told me he would talk it over with his BOD and get back to me about the job. That was the last private chat I ever had with him, and no offer was forthcoming. At that point I advised people against investing in DBANK as it was doomed to failure because they couldn't even cover their interest spread. I brought up the interest coverage after DBANK released their reports along with other people on MD, but Mana never responded to ANY MD questions. Mana left all communication to his PR guy (who was a disaster), and nothing really change until it was probably too late (rate changed to 7%). At the end of the summer the job (that I was offered) was finally offered to Xabier and placed in charge of nearly 100B ISK to invest and set up a loan book. As we know Xabier quickly did a runner with DBANK's and every one else's cash (50B bond), and Evn7289's bond making a total of about 150B stolen ISK. 3. The End Game After the large theft it was clear that DBANK was dead. It was likely that DBANK was already underwater and were struggling to cover their growing interest payments. After Shar spotted the huge holes in the database it was over. I guess at that point it was easier for the two players to just walk away than try and sort it out. Bad plan, bad execution and trust in the wrong people killed the beast. It makes me wonder if Fury bank ever made REAL money or was a database pipedream and when things caught up with Fury he just quit too? I would have a lot more respect if these people who failed would man up and speak their side of the story.

Lexander Morinex Caldari LDD Investments	Posted - 2009.11.10 20:15:00 - [21] As another former employee of this disaster I can basically confirm the other stories. My goal in joining DBANK was to be involved in managing a bank. This was before I had really studied enough of the EVE economy to become the skeptic I am today. I had developed a working bank in ATITD and had hopes it could be done in EVE. I rarely talked to Manalapan. I heard his voice once in a meeting over Ventrilo with the BoD. Otherwise it was entirely ingame or rare posts. What I regret most was missing the red flags at first. I eventually bailed on the company after it got scammed but by that point I was getting very concerned. The Vent meeting suggested that I was dealing with some younger college students. They seemed nice but hardly brilliant bankers. The claim was made that Manalapan was basically manipulating a whole market section to make his profits. If true, and I never confirmed that, it was something that required a lot of work. The only detail I had about Manalapan outside of his toon was that one of his alts was a member of a mercenary group going by Sardaukar something or other. That happened after he sent me an ingame message from his alt detailing prices. Since the price was very low he hardly struck me as likely to be a banking genius. I have one real regret about DBANK. I repeatedly emphasized the PR aspects of the company. As much as I like Salpad I know I did a better job of that aspect than he did. I emphasized the need for a clear presentation of information, better reporting and a better message. What I regret is my suspicion that this improved the reputation of the company and allowed Manalapan to basically scam people out of more money. The red flags were somewhat mixed. The biggest red flag was the vagueness of information. That concerned me but Manalapan seemed to be in the process of revealing more information. But when I quit I started suspecting that such real information did not actually exist. I think I made the mistake of making too much of his not talking. Most scam artists I have dealt with are a bit of a showman. They keep selling the scam to keep you scamming. Manalapan never did any of that. If anything he was far too silent to expect his operation to make money. I think in many ways he was just a bad amateur. It is very likely he was running a Ponzi scheme but I will never prove that. I certainly think that Iknota did most of the real database work and Manalapan was over his head in that area. Near the end the numbers didn't make sense to me. The Xavier scam coincided with my final decision to be done with the whole thing. That scam to me tends to support my conclusion that Manalapan was more of an incompetent young man than any brilliant schemer. I think he was making money trading but eventually hit the point where his interest payments forced him into a what amounted to a Ponzi. I should have done better analysis of some of the numbers to see if they suggested fraud. But the paucity of real numbers would probably have made that impossible. I regret ever associating myself with this mess. I consider it my biggest mistake in EVE. About the only consolation is that a lot of other much more respected players have been tarred by larger scandals. But this is still a bad end to a company made mostly of honest players. - Lexander Morinex
Del Mei	Posted - 2009.11.11 04:32:00 - [22] From what Man has told me through AIM Total he walked with- 646 billion isk.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2009.11.11 04:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Del Mei From what Man has told me through AIM Total he walked with- 646 billion isk. And who said you can't make money paying 10% interest while making loans at 6.5%?
Lexander Morinex Caldari LDD Investments	Posted - 2009.11.11 21:13:00 - [24] Originally by: Del Mei From what Man has told me through AIM Total he walked with- 646 billion isk. Sadly, unless you do things that CCP doesn't approve of, you can't take it with you. Nice chunk of virtual change though. - Lexander Morinex
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.12 05:39:00 - [25] Why can't you just leave us wealthy bankers alone, what did we ever do to hurt you? Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Tiberizzle	Posted - 2009.11.12 07:49:00 - [26] lol, petitioned for trolling
Reilly Duvolle	Posted - 2009.11.12 18:26:00 - [27] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 The only questions that I have right now are: Where is the remaining isk? Who had their hands in the cookie jar, even if for legitimate reasons? What should happen to that isk now? Do those individuals get to keep it? Oh this is rich, coming from you
Dumb Jerk	Posted - 2009.11.12 18:33:00 - [28] Sooner or later, those of you who keep coming to this forum will get it: all of the IPOs, loans, banks, etc. are just scams waiting to happen.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2009.11.12 18:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Dumb Jerk Sooner or later, those of you who keep coming to this forum will get it: all of the IPOs, loans, banks, etc. are just scams waiting to happen. But they are fun to watch as they happen.
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.12 18:50:00 - [30] Life is just death waiting to happen. Titan BPC Auction \| Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah



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