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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
MortisLegati
Caldari War Materiel
11
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Posted - 2012.06.23 23:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hey folks, thanks for the feedback, here are some answers for you.
[list]
WILL EXHUMER SHIP SPECIALIZATIONS BE AFFECTED BY SUCH CHANGES? Most likely not, except maybe for the Skiff as mentioned above.
This scares me a little. There's this great Role-By-Stats with the T1 barges, but then it gets messed around with for the T2 variants (I don't know what 'mentioned above' thing for the skiff is) with the exception of the hulk, which will still act as a direct upgrade from a covetor. That means that the 'direct upgrade' path for solo miners who found themselves using the Retriever because of its ore bay will find themselves in a hulk doing group ops as often as they can or in a Mackinaw mining ice. At least that's what I see people doing after the changes have been around for a while.
What I'm trying to get to is: We're looking at the Mackinaw and the retriever as solo mining ships. Is this implying that newer miners will have a mineral mining ship and older, T2 miners will have an ice mining ship for solo mining? |
MortisLegati
Caldari War Materiel
12
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Posted - 2012.06.28 00:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vanessa Vansen wrote:
In addition, you have room to introduce a mining frigate which could carry 5 high slots for miners (not strip miners) and to introduce a T3 mining barge to implement the ideas of CCP.
It is now abundantly clear you have not read the devblog announcing the new mining frigate. I now bring into question the credence of your opinion.
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MortisLegati
Caldari War Materiel
12
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Posted - 2012.06.28 02:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vanessa Vansen wrote:
The ORE Frigate should be able to gas mine effectively.
They could do that with just one slot; give it a 500% bonus. Three or four highslots could give a whole number that gives just slightly more than other ships. Highsec gas mining is super unprofitable right now, so a frigate that is a low ISK/low skill boat that could mine at the effectiveness of battlecruisers for gas would make a large amount of sense.
In the world of ship bonuses, (at least for mining) slots don't matter. |
MortisLegati
Caldari War Materiel
12
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Posted - 2012.06.28 08:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Mechael wrote: remove the ice/merc specialties
CCP seems really attached to those specialties. |
MortisLegati
Caldari War Materiel
12
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Posted - 2012.06.29 04:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
SabuMaru ICE wrote:The sky is falling due to probable increased mining output.
I'd have to disagree. The hulk is still going to remain the highest efficiency miner. Per-player, the ceiling for the amount of minerals/ice/merx is probably not going to increase (which is probably why they're working off the original specialties, as to not cause what you're afraid of).
Personally, I'd like some dev clarification on the efficiency, for minerals, on the Mackinaw (will it be comparable to a step below the hulk, or will it be the same as the retriever, as it is now?). |
MortisLegati
Caldari War Materiel
12
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Posted - 2012.06.29 20:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jonak wrote:So the Mack will get a better tank and the Hulks tank will be nerfed? I thought they were trying to eliminate the one-shot kills?
Anything will only be a Nerf in comparison to other ships. The hulk will most likely actually get an EHP buff in and of its own. |
MortisLegati
Caldari War Materiel
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Posted - 2012.06.30 16:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vanessa Vansen wrote:
- Unify the requirements (tiericide), i.e. one for mining barges and one for exhumers
- Introduce Ore Hangar expanders, e.g. low slot modules (and rigs) with n¼üxed amount, or
similar to current cargohold modules (and rigs)
-That's not the whole idea for tiericide. The tiericide portion that applies most directly to barges was the elimination of stepped requirements and overall statistics gain between ships with lower and ships with higher skill requirements. By giving barges all the same requirement and allowing it to be a decision between different yield/tank/cargo stat combinations, skill-wise, the tiers are gone.
-This defeats the entire purpose of the 'conversion' to ore bays on some ships (notably the Hulk; they don't want you using it as a solo ship without gimping your effectiveness, it's part of tiericide, elsewise it would lead everyone straight to hulk(what they're stating they're trying to get rid of)). They want people to choose between (extra) tank and yield, not tank/yield/cargo between the barges
Vanessa Vansen wrote:
Role set A - Mercoxit, Ice, Non-Mercoxit
Adjust the bonus of Procurer and Retriever to copy that of Skiff and Mackinaw, e.g
- Procurer - 50% more yield bonus for Mercoxit Mining Crystals per level
- Retriever - same role bonus as Mackinaw (double yield but 25% penalty on duration), 4%
reduction for duration of ice harvester per level
- Covetor - as it is currently
I have literally no idea where you're going with this, since by homogenizing each ship type between T1 and T2 causes a 'tier' again, rather than a Generalization>Specialization, which, for industrial ships, implies operating on a different level (apples and oranges) than its peers within its tech level. (Personally, I feel the Hulk disrupts this to some extent but at the same time I feel it fits snugly.)
Vanessa Vansen wrote:
- Unify number of high slots, e.g. 2 for each mining barge and exhumer (other numbers
would be possible, too) -> graphics will have to be changed
Honestly, I feel like people hover over this in their heads far too much when they think of 'make yields closer to the hulk/covetor'. Strip miners not multiplying the yield can be explained through a multitude of different reasons without making a complete overhaul to the mining ship lineup (think manufacturing here). It makes sense, still, to keep the same number of highslots as we have, if even just to maintain visual uniqueness.
Vanessa Vansen wrote:
Role set B....
This would make some significant bit of sense if it applied solely to exhumers, but it's never stated. (Basically, you're saying that the same 'specialization' could be maintained between T1-T2 by doing the same anti-tiering as was operated through their Tech 1 variants.(Yet, by maintaining the same T2 yield bonus as the hulk, you've literally created a 'tier' between T1 and T2; no specialization beyond the option to be able to mine merx and ice.(I'm going to avoid saying gas, because...)))
Vanessa Vansen wrote:
Make the mining frigate a gas harvester
Is probably the one thing I could say the current philosophy put forth by the changes as they've been designed will agree with.
I'm really speaking from what I can pull from through meditation on the general philosophy the team tasked with making the mining changes is operating under. It's folly to try to turn a developer's head away from a particular way of doing things unless there's a valid reason (something's majorly ****** with the way they're doing things, etc) to scrap it and go with an entirely new set of balance calculations/arguments (back to the drawing board). |
MortisLegati
Caldari War Materiel
12
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Posted - 2012.06.30 18:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
They were talking about pushing yields closer together between the smaller and larger barges. The most obvious way they would do that would be to give a large multiplier to yield on ships with fewer turrets. It kind of makes me think of a stacking penalty for strips  . |
MortisLegati
Caldari War Materiel
13
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Posted - 2012.07.06 15:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cloned S0ul wrote:More yield will let miners make more ISK.
This is a common fallacy. More supply drives down profit since minerals are based around a supply/demand market. If every miner suddenly doubled their mineral production, mineral prices would nearly half.
It would do nothing but make ships cheaper, in reality. |
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