|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
28
   |
Posted - 2012.06.17 13:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
I like the idea of changing the barges. I also like expanding O.R.E's ship line to include frigs. Hopefully this means we'll see O.R.E. cruisers soon and maybe even one day BCs. BSs and cap ships all with mining bonuses lol.
As far as the Destroyers are concerned I find the Coercer to be by far the best for PvE. It is an awesome ship for running level 1 and 2 missions. When you say the Thrasher and Catalyst are preferred I think that is only for PvP.
In general I find most of the non-O.R.E. changes sound like homogenization of the races which I believe will lead to a dumbing down of Eve and a removing of much of the variety that makes the game interesting.
Most of these changes sound like a poorly thought out plan. I am having PTSD flashbacks to WoW balancing. You need to keep in mind that anyone can train to fly any ship and therefore it is impossible for any ship to be overpowered in this game due to the fact that if it is everyone could just fly it and therefore all are equal.
Keep in mind that there are different play styles. Some are more popular than others. But if you eliminate the less popular ones and move more towards the popular ones then I think the game as a whole will suffer.
For example a lot of players like the style of PvP that the Minmatar ships specialize in which is hard, fast, in-your-face, DPS race type of brawling. Therefore the Minmatar ships get chosen more often for PvP. However that does not mean that someone can not win in a ECM bonused ship like the Griffin just to show one alternative. If however you give every race: a brawler and a drone boat and sniping boat, that will not add to the diversity of Eve it will take away from it. Instead of seeing **** tons of rifters in PvP we will see a **** ton of the rifter equivalent in each race and therefore PvP will change in the look of the ship only and the cost will be an extreme homoginization of play style or worse and elimination of certain play styles. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 14:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Katy Ling wrote:it's good to see new and exciting balances on the frigates, where there's more viable frigates than the rifter. 
Please correct me if I'm wrong as I dont' PvP but I keep hearing about how the rifter is the only ship to PvP in and how Minmatar ships are overpowered but it seems to me that the Minmatar ships are focused on a " A Type " personality combat style of all offense with little to no defense and an adrenaline filled race to very short finish in a 40 yard dash style of fighting to see who can kill who first. As opposed to more defensive based combat style that could be better described as see who can last longer.
This also eliminates other play styles like EW for example.
I'm just saying that instead of giving every race a brawler like the rifter wouldn't we be better off making sure that other play styles are equally viable?
If 80% of the people want to brawl then let 80% of them fly rifters. I just think that if another ship with a different play style in mind has an equal chance of winning then things should be left alone even if only a very small percentage of the pilot choose to fly that way.
Am I missing something here? Is it impossible for a Griffin pilot for example to jam and scram a rifter pilot and win in a 1 v 1? Do we want to make sure every race has the same chances in 1 v 1 or should some races be better at group combat and some better at solo?
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 04:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:
No, Your Giffin wants to be a Merlin. Giffins are a support ship for the most part.
But isn't that just sticking to the same combat style just with hybrids instead of projectiles? Is there only one way to fight in this game or are people just being closed minded? If there is truly no way that a Grifffin could beat a Rifter then I think that is a broken mechanic.
I mean the Griffin has 2 launchers a turret and a drone. I'd think if you could get a point on a rifter and jam him that unless he has ECCM fitted you should be able to take him down eventually.
What it seems to me CCP is trying to do is turn every ship into a rifter. I think a ship like the merlin should not be even with the rifter in 1 v 1 due to the fact that the resist bonus gives it an unfair advantage in fleet fights with cheap T1 logis around.
Caldari and Amarr resist bonuses multiply the effect of RR where the Minmatar and Gallente rep amount bonus do not. Therefore Gallente and Minmatar should be a little better in solo fights or fights where RR is not present to compensate for that.
I saw a dev blog trying to figure out a way to make it so that all 4 races got the same effect from RR. What I am talking about is encouraging a diversity of play styles instead of homogenizing combat even more than it already is.
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 17:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:
Mining aligned will keep you 100% safe, guaranteed. Just warp off when someone starts landing on grid.
I don't see how that is true. preconditions for warp are aligned and 75% of max speed. In a hulk if I hit warp it seems that I align much sooner than I hit 75% of max speed. Aligning does little to nothing to make you safer unless you are moving and if you are mining ideally you can't really move it messes up the results from the roid scanner thus fuxoring your yield.
Staying aligned and at 3/4 speed is just not a viable option and staying aligned and stopped is nearly useless.
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 17:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
4.) You dont have to explain why Gallente ships need speed to me, I understand that. I was just explaining that CCP just got finished buffing speed, that's all. *Why* Gallenete ships need speed is a separate issue from whether or not CCP is going to buff it a second time before tackling the other issues that Gallente ships struggle with.
Generally speaking Minmatar boats are the lowest dps of the competing gun boats. The are typically the fastest but suffer from the worst fitting stats and typically the worst tank and worst electronics. Matar ships often have damage bonuses where other ships get other useful stats and the damage bonus just helps compensate for the naturally lower dps therefore is kind of a wash.
As far as I understand the minmatar ships lag behind everyone else in everything except speed. Matar ship excelle at PvP strictly because of their ability to dictate range and make use of huge falloffs which just further reduce DPS but give a margin of safety from shorter ranged counterparts. If you reduce or eliminate the speed superiority of the Minmatar ships then they instantly become the most useless ships in game.
The minmatar are a race of people that are scrappers. They were a slave race and have had to fight for everything they have. By game design they have been made the PvP dominant race of ships in game. If you want to ship balance and give Gallenete ships enough speed to catch Matar ships in PvP you will need to change the entire concept of the game and redesign all Minmatar ships to give them a role or use and then completely change the entire Eve backstory.
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 17:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Gainard wrote:Setting your drones to agressive in High sec can lead to you being concordockened. No, that is a complete impossibility. Drones will not attack a target for no reason, and that's exactly what it takes to call CONCORD down on your head.
Unless something has changed in the past 2 years since back when I used to high sec mine a lot if you set your drones to aggressive and they attacked your ganker then Concord would not come to your aid. While it may be true that setting them to aggressive will not get you Concordocken ( I'm not certain of that ) it still remains that it's a bad idea unless like I said CCP has changed that in the past couple years. Since I don't high sec mine anymore I don't know about this. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 17:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vorian Atraties wrote:Not fond of the changes to the Hulks.. It's like the most popular ship to gank in high sec so you boost the hp on the other 2 but not the one everybody uses, that one gets less and pretty much left alone.. What's the point in flying one now?? Meh subscription ends in 3 days may as well just let it laps.. Minecraft is more fun than eve these days...
v.
This game is an MMO which means group play is CCP's priority. I think they are trying to make the ideal situation for a hulk to be a well secured null sec system in a boosted mining fleet.
This fits in with what CCP has professed as goals all along which is to get more players in null for more emergent player driven gameplay. In order to justify having combat ships securing nearby systems to make a mining fleet safe then null sec mining will have to pay more than high sec. Making the Hulk mostly only useable in well secured null sec fits in with everything this game claims to be.
If you don't like null sec being more profitable than high sec then you don't like this game and no amount of changes will bring you back. IMHO you are arguing against the core goals of CCP and Eve with this comment.
|
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 19:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think that the O.R.E. frigs are long over due. It never made sense to me that each race had it's own mining bonused frig and cruiser when Outer Ring Excavators was already making BPOs for barges and then eventually industrials.
As far as ship balancing goes it seems to me that you guys are way too focused on PvP. It's not that focusing on PvP is a bad thing but you seem to have done only that. I hear nothing of any consideration for any non-pvp use. Even the mining ship changes you seem to have focused on the PvP aspects almost strictly.
80+% of the people that play this game stick in high sec most of the time. PvE activities like missioning are a staple of this game. Not only do many veterans use PvE to fund their PvP habbits but noobs pretty much have to take their first losses against NPCs while working their way up through missions and learning the basic concepts of how to fit a ship. I will say it probably took me 2 years before I became good at fitting a ship and I only PvE which means I don't know how to fit a ship for any activity involving PvP and it might take me a year or better of doing PvP to learn that.
The above paragraphing being said you should keep in mind not only PvE uses but some type of progression for new players. Some examples of what I mean is that if a certain ship almost never gets used in PvP but gets used often in PvE that ship should not be considered lacking just because it's PvP uses are few. On the other hand a ship like the drake that gets used heavily in both PvE and PvP in my book is a bit of a failure.
My first toon was a minmatar. I struggled a long time with matar ships before I learned more about this game. First off guns in general are not noob friendly you basically have to fly a missile boat early on. If you focus on gunnery you can do ok in couple weeks maybe but your first week in game pretty much you have to use missiles as they are more low skill point friendly. Also the matar ships in general are not at all noob friendly but up until now they have been the 1 v 1 PvP ship of choice. If you balance all of these ships for PvP what are you going to do about all the many ways that tech 1 Matar ships suck in PvE?
Also it is just a simple fact that the resistance based bonus of the Caldari and Amarr is better for PvP. It's arguable if the boost amount bonus of the Matar and Galente ships is better for PvE and the Drake is a perfect example of what I mean. Maybe if you gave Matar/Gal ships a bonus for rep amount and hitpoints that might balance things but I'm not really sure how you could balance ships the same for everything.
In general if you make every race's version of a ship that fits a specific role exactly balanced you take away the variety and flavor that makes this game interesting and fun. Marauders are the perfect example of what I mean. They all have almost identical stats and all have boost amount bonuses. There's no Gallente drone bonused Marauder. Yes it kind of pissed me off that the Drake was so good at so many things but after I figured out how hard core Matar ships suck for noob missioning pilots I was sure glad the drake was there and just cross trained into it and ran many level 3 missions in it and worked my way into level 4's with that ship.
The one thing you must keep in mind is that no one is locked into any race. Cross training races is no big deal especially early on. If like me you are born Matar and realize how bad they suck in missions it does not take long to get into drake and become a mission running machine. DO NOT make all of these ships the same. DO NOT create roles and then give every race a ship to fill that specific role identically. If you do so you will destroy this game. Everybody should be able to stick to a race and do everything but each race needs to have strengths and weaknesses and if you want to be the best at everything you should have to crosstrain all the races.
I don't have any issue with one race being better at missioning and another race being ideal for solo PvP while a thrid race might be the best at nothing but be second best at almost everything. Just make sure that strengths are offset with weaknesses.
Examples of this are:
Amarr ship are highest DPS in game typically with awesome tanks which should make them unbeatable for PvP except they are heavy and slow and short on mids also rely totally on cap for DPS and are very susceptible to cap warfare. Further their damage is limited to EM/Therm.
Minmatar ships have paper thin tanks and often the crappiest dps of any other gun boat. Their tracking is usually lowest of the 3 gun types and almost all of their DPS is done deep into falloff so even the crap dps numbers in EFT are a gross over exaggeration of what you actually get. To compensate they are typically the fastest ships in game and have huge falloffs and their dps is immune to cap warfare. This allows the matar ships to dictate range and control the fight which usually leads to a win in 1 v 1s but lacking in fleet fights were webs and many ships exist. If you doubt me on this jump into a hurricane and go on a fleet roam and see who dies first. Hint: unless there is another hurricane in the group it's probably going to be you.
So you guys do things like speed up Galente ships so they can compete with Matar ships in 1 v 1s but fail to do anything to change the stats with the matar ships that make them substandard in every other situation.
As a note I've left faction ships like the machariel and cynabal as well as the T2 BS/Marauder with the falloff bonuses out of this as faction ships are a whole different deal and I've already expressed my distaste with the over homogenization of the Marauders. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 20:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:The changes to the attack frigates are simply amazing. New players are now more able to "explore" (for the lack of a better word) fast tackling in a more viable ship than the traditional tackling frigates (i.e. the Rifter) and decide whether training interceptors will be a goal for specialization. Mad props. Sadly, this is a bit of a stealth-nerf to the Rifter. The Rifter was the symbol of the motto of "every ship is dangerous." It was a cornerstone of GoonFleet propaganda since 2006. It is effectively a symbol of this game - a game where even a new player can absolutely and irreversibly ruin your day. See the LEGO Rifter. http://i.imgur.com/Dhd8o.jpg:(
I agree you can get to level 4 frig and level 4 small projectiles in no time. The rifter remaining the cheap brawler and T1 frig of choice for 1 v 1 is not a problem.
|
|
|
| |
|