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Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 09:46:00 -
[1]
We must appease her with gifts of appletini.
I all seriousness though, petty slanders on C&P with it's obvious M'K origins accomplishes nothing good for them.
So, let's have a discussion about this:
If you were an alliance leader, and you misunderstood the terms of a merc contract and cannot afford the bill. What do YOU think the appropriate action would be?
Discuss.
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Mordred McKenna
Allergy Attack
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:10:00 -
[2]
I think your sigs are awesome.
I want one.
If I were Maru Ka'ge leaders, I would have sucked it up, and paid the bill. Hell, asked members for money. You don't go hire someone and then **** them over, you know?
... And nobody else will truthfully respond to this thread.
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Vissintock
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:31:00 -
[3]
Fulfill the contract. You signed it, you do it/pay it. It's yer own fault if you didn't bother to ask for clarification or just didn't read it properly. That's what the negotiation process is for: Flesh out the details and make sure everyone's on the same page and understands eachother BEFORE you sign.
BTW, is this a real incident going down? Or is this rhetorical? Either way, the answer's the same:
Make arrangements to fulfill your end, which you signed to. IOW, find a way to pay up!
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Jimer Lins
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:35:00 -
[4]
If it were me who made the deal, and truly didn't understand the terms or didn't understand the magnitude of the deal I was agreeing to, I'd first check the history and KB of the corp I was working with to see if they could bring me the hurt if I ****ed them.
If "can **** me==true" then... well, much depends. How civil can I be with their people, how much money can I make and will it be faster than just extracting it directly from my alliance's ass?
Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast |
Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 10:45:00 -
[5]
I notice I had not given my own opinion.
I think I would attempt to explain that I didn't fully understand the terms presented to me correctly, and then see if I could come to an agreement with my mercs, perhaps pay them back over time, or see if they would just let me off in exchange for services from my alliance.
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Varg Tepes
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:03:00 -
[6]
Well.. First of i would have actually read the contract presented to me. If i did not understand the elements within the contract, i would have asked.
Since Sickboy obviously didnt read the contract or didnt understand it, he should at least pay it. If MK realy cant cough up 5b, then they should disband.
So... if u play, u gotta pay.. m'kay?
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TimMc
Gallente
Brutal Deliverance
Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:47:00 -
[7]
I would have stated my max budget, but then I used to be a merc. Failing that in the past, I would have had to pay their bill, even going to GTCs to get isk.
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Boomershoot
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.11.13 11:54:00 -
[8]
i'd pay in monthly rates of x bil/month and ask the merc to not get angry.
Possibly without interests rates, heh.
The point is, if i need mercs it's probably because i can't stand alone or i want to do more damage than i could possibly be doing alone. in both cases, i'd triple-check my budget and tell the merc BEFORE letting em go apple-banana-cocnut crazy on the targets
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i'd gladly abuse [hr] if CCP implemented it
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Lana's Alt
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:50:00 -
[9]
I think the real question should be who can people not understand a merc contract.. I mean its pretty simple.. We kill **** for you, you pay us in shiny isk at the end of the week.. How complex can it get? (F-OFF's random additions after the fact not withstanding)
Istvaan Shogaatsu: As with most such situations the answer is simple: rob them first. |
Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 14:07:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Lana's Alt
I think the real question should be who can people not understand a merc contract.. I mean its pretty simple.. We kill **** for you, you pay us in shiny isk at the end of the week.. How complex can it get? (F-OFF's random additions after the fact not withstanding)
Well, I can get into that sentiment in a way, but looking at sick boy's grasp of English, I suspect he genuinely didn't quite understand the terms he was getting into. Mind you that is no excuse in my book, so the question after that is; imagine you made a screw up of epic proportions like this, what would you do?
Basically I'm trying to espouse the virtues of not being a douche here ;)
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Nathan Harrow
Caldari
Duty.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Nathan Harrow on 13/11/2009 15:02:24
I think there is a lesson to learn from this for any would be client. Pay per kill is all very well and good if your targets are small or you dont expect a huge amount of kills.
However if you give the mercs free reign on multiple systems in 0.0 space expect them to tear it up and watch the bill skyrocket...
In a situation like this MK would have been better off paying a set amount of ISK for services for one week. Most likely they have never hired mercs before and not done any research on the matter. From the looks of the mails Aleks posted there was no real negotiation on the price - more fool them...
Worst thing a client can do is not honour a contract, especially if its because the mercs have done too good a job - your only going to get them come after you with a reason to fight that goes beyond money and add another red to your list...
-------------------------
Quote:
You know what the chain of command is? Its a chain i go get and beat you with till you understand whose in ruttin' command here...
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Loqiel
Caldari
Legio Fortunae
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:11:00 -
[12]
Pretty sure I'd state a max budget. Also, pretty sure if I was in Noir's position, I'd pound M'K until the combination of ISK received and ISK destroyed matched what I was owed. You gotta get yours somehow, right? Plus this is a statement situation; if Noir allows M'K to welch without consequence, there's nothing to stop other clients from doing likewise. An example has to be made.
"A good plan executed violently now is better than a perfect plan executed sometime in the future." -Gen. George Patton |
Rose Artemis
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Helicity Boson
If you were an alliance leader, and you misunderstood the terms of a merc contract and cannot afford the bill. What do YOU think the appropriate action would be?
Hire a different merc corp to deal with the first one
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IHaveNoFace
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Rose Artemis
Originally by: Helicity Boson
If you were an alliance leader, and you misunderstood the terms of a merc contract and cannot afford the bill. What do YOU think the appropriate action would be?
Hire a different merc corp to deal with the first one
Hire them with what? Dodging PL Titans takes its toll maaaaan.
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Amanda Mor
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Posted - 2009.11.13 17:05:00 -
[15]
I've been hearing about this Maru Ka'ge vs Noir situation for a few days now, and I'm curious how an alliance of MK's size can't afford a merc bill of 5B ISK. I mean they have 19 member corps, and I assume well over 250 actual pilots - shouldn't 5billion be kind of a small amount for them?
It's too late now, but how hard would it have been to collect 10-20 million per pilot to pay a merc contract? If you're a multi-hundred pilot alliance, shouldn't you have an extra 5-10B just laying around to pay for miscellaneous expenses like beer and party hats?
At this point, they're kinda screwed, so they might as well enjoy the fight against Noir I suppose...
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trenny jr
Caldari
United Forces Academy
Galactic System Lords Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rose Artemis
Originally by: Helicity Boson
If you were an alliance leader, and you misunderstood the terms of a merc contract and cannot afford the bill. What do YOU think the appropriate action would be?
Hire a different merc corp to deal with the first one
shame the first one by this time would have informed the merc comunity about what was going on and thus the second corp would refuse the contract :)
every time lana posts a carebear dies |
MicroWarpdrive II
the united
Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 19:08:00 -
[17]
Edited by: MicroWarpdrive II on 13/11/2009 19:09:47
hi helicity me lioek to, spel: alot.
jokes aside, i think that CCP should implement a contract to help with these situations. not to force payment, (maybe just force the upfront cash to be paid) but at least show a failed contract against the corp/alliance. now in terms of punishment to MK, i think they should take the money owed to them by force, one ship at a time.
an example of this is websites like ebay. their +/- system on buyers could be like the contracts issued.
funner
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Harrigan VonStudly
Imperium Signal Corps
Underworld Excavators
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Posted - 2009.11.14 02:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Varg Tepes
Well.. First of i would have actually read the contract presented to me. If i did not understand the elements within the contract, i would have asked.
Since Sickboy obviously didnt read the contract or didnt understand it, he should at least pay it. If MK realy cant cough up 5b, then they should disband.
So... if u play, u gotta pay.. m'kay?
^^This^^
Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Not understanding a contract with possibly the most notorious Merc alliance and failing to pay is, well, ****ing stupid. If they were really omfgidintunderstandwtfdidwedo and don't have the funds you make a payment arrangement.
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Raiiden
Gallente
Unknown-Entity
Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.14 06:07:00 -
[19]
tbh this strategically placed post would make you the prime suspect of such an endevour.. seeing as we could care less, and we already presented our evidence of noir's doings... but to answer your question: I would melt them, first.
Originally by: Helicity Boson
We must appease her with gifts of appletini.
I all seriousness though, petty slanders on C&P with it's obvious M'K origins accomplishes nothing good for them.
So, let's have a discussion about this:
If you were an alliance leader, and you misunderstood the terms of a merc contract and cannot afford the bill. What do YOU think the appropriate action would be?
Discuss.
One image per signature please. Zymurgist |
Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Raiiden
tbh this strategically placed post would make you the prime suspect of such an endevour.. seeing as we could care less, and we already presented our evidence of noir's doings... but to answer your question: I would melt them, first.
Got your paranoia up boy? I'm a small-time nobody low-sec pirate, not a lame M-K alt trolling. :P
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Ivan Desinovich
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:09:00 -
[21]
Noir didn't sit down and explain the rate and fee schedule, merely told them to watch the killboard for the totals and divide by 50% (not their fault rly, thats all on M'K for not watchign the KB and stopping them when it got up to 2 bil)
M'K didnt tell Noir the budget, just told them to have at anything in system, assuming it would be cheap.
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Serlunt
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Posted - 2009.11.15 08:17:00 -
[22]
These responses are general, and different options would be used depending on the other party.
1. Go over billing with fine-tooth comb. Determine what the verbiage of the contract is, is there any way you can point out that the amount owed is less than what they believe it is?
2. Arrange a payment plan. Mercs are business people (violent business people, but still business people). Getting the payment over time is generally better than no payment at all/war (war is actually worse because you are occupied and otherwise unable to take other contracts while potentially suffering attrition)
3. Pay the agreed amount when it is agreed (or earlier), and communicate.
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Ancy Denaries
Forever Unbound
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Posted - 2009.11.28 08:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Amanda Mor
I've been hearing about this Maru Ka'ge vs Noir situation for a few days now, and I'm curious how an alliance of MK's size can't afford a merc bill of 5B ISK. I mean they have 19 member corps, and I assume well over 250 actual pilots - shouldn't 5billion be kind of a small amount for them?
It's too late now, but how hard would it have been to collect 10-20 million per pilot to pay a merc contract? If you're a multi-hundred pilot alliance, shouldn't you have an extra 5-10B just laying around to pay for miscellaneous expenses like beer and party hats?
At this point, they're kinda screwed, so they might as well enjoy the fight against Noir I suppose...
It would be, assuming your numbers, about 20 mil a head. Which is peanuts.
----
The Demigodess with a Conscience - An EVE IC Blog
Personal Killboard |
Lana's Alt
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.11.28 09:00:00 -
[24]
As this one just got necroed and I forgot I had read it before I read it again... You do realize you answered your own question right???
Originally by: Helicity Boson
Discuss.
Point is, merc corp wants their isk and they would much rather work out a payment play or something than dec you and kill you a lot.. So talk with them.
Lana Torrin, bringing threads back on topic since this post.
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PostmasterGeneral
Minmatar
yo i'm posting
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Posted - 2009.11.28 09:42:00 -
[25]
lana is your main ever getting unbanned
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Lana's Alt
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.11.28 09:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: PostmasterGeneral
lana is your main ever getting unbanned
Strangely enough it coincides with the release of dominion.. So I expect to get banned again in under a week..(I wont be trying to but im bound to mouth off in someones cry thread)
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PostmasterGeneral
Minmatar
yo i'm posting
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Posted - 2009.11.28 10:06:00 -
[27]
you can have alts in yo im posting anytime
provided they're minmatar
and i would log in
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2009.11.28 19:17:00 -
[28]
Make a post in C&P to tell everyone how I scammed said Merc's then laugh and point?
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Ignitious Hellfury
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.11.28 22:00:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Ignitious Hellfury on 28/11/2009 22:01:02
I would failhire more mercs to take care of the mercs that are already angry at me. I'd keep the chain of events going till everyone is so confused I'll just be forgotten and all debts washed away.
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Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.11.28 22:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ignitious Hellfury
Edited by: Ignitious Hellfury on 28/11/2009 22:01:02
I would failhire more mercs to take care of the mercs that are already angry at me. I'd keep the chain of events going till everyone is so confused I'll just be forgotten and all debts washed away.
these arnt the droids your looking for *waves hand*
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