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Yetanotheralt
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:17:00 -
[1]
So everyone says how great the Nightmare is for level 4 missions but its terrible even with a cap injector you just cap out all the time, I suspect my problem is my fitting and that I am doing something wrong.
The fitting I am using is,
4x Tachyon beam laser IIs
True Sansha web Caldari navy XL shield booster 2x Caldari navy boost amplifiers 2x mission specific T2 Hardeners Heavy capacitor booster II
3x Amarr navy heatsink Tracking enhancer II Damage control II
3x Capacitor control circuit Is
Everything is pretty explanatory like the web is to make sure I can hit anything that comes to close and the tracking enhancer gives that little bit extra to help with those annoying HAC rats that come up close but somehow the ship doesnt seem to work and a normal T2 fitted Apocolypse seems to tank better and finish the missions as fast.
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Death's Lolita
Amarr Soldiers Of Industry
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:33:00 -
[2]
the ship is great (tho i dont own one yet)
the only problem with your setup is that you have too many named mods there... thus the cap out...
try some t2, just for kicks. you will still tank all the dmg a lvl 4 can dish out ad still have cap to spare
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Jofridur
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:35:00 -
[3]
Aren't you just running the tank too much?
I use a Vargur with an XL booster and no cap-booster and I manage to hover around 35% shields pulsing the booster, I have the same one as you. (I manage aggro if course.)
I also don't have any cap modules or rigs.
By logic you should be able to use the cap from the cap-booster to run your guns.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:38:00 -
[4]
more resists, less boost amps.
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vicror
Caldari Critical Density
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:42:00 -
[5]
Edited by: vicror on 17/11/2009 00:43:33 only problem I see is your sb should be large faction or xl gist. or you lack high enough skills to fly it right or you're doing something wrong.
try this Damage Control II True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Heavy Capacitor Booster II Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Gist A-Type 100MN Afterburner Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Tachyon Beam Laser II Tachyon Beam Laser II Tachyon Beam Laser II Tachyon Beam Laser II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hammerhead II Hobgoblin II
faction guns use a little less cap if you want to use them instead. t2 do more damage.
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Yetanotheralt
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:42:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Yetanotheralt on 17/11/2009 00:45:03 The problem is three CCC rigs do not even run the guns using any type of ammo other than standard crystals, to have any hope of running the shield booster for more than one or two cycles it needs the cap injector and if the missions a fairly long one or has lots of spawns cap becomes a serious issue.
Also before anyone says it all gunnery skills (controlled bursts) etc are at level V so are engineering skills.
Originally by: vicror only problem I see is your sb should be large faction or xl gist. or you lack high enough skills to fly it right or you're doing something wrong.
try this Damage Control II True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink True Sansha Heat Sink Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Heavy Capacitor Booster II Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer Gist A-Type 100MN Afterburner Gist A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Tachyon Beam Laser II Tachyon Beam Laser II Tachyon Beam Laser II Tachyon Beam Laser II Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Hammerhead II Hobgoblin II
Honestly imo thats counterproductive it would take me so long for the ship to actually pay for itself I could just take that kind of money and spend it on the things I need instead of spending it on a PVE ship.
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vicror
Caldari Critical Density
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:47:00 -
[7]
Edited by: vicror on 17/11/2009 00:48:47 get yourself a gist a-type xl. 1.5b is a great investment. cheap now too. was 3b about 6 months ago.
^pays for itself in one week. stop being cheap and fit it right.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.17 00:50:00 -
[8]
Don't run your tank for more than a minute. Period. My domi caps out in under 2 minutes and I never have cap issues in missions, your DPS is your tank. |
Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.11.17 01:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton more resists, less boost amps.
Just quoting so it does not get lost in noise.
You do not want to tank for long and cap efficiency is not a concern. You just want to survive till you reduce rats to manageable count and hardeners increase buffer too.
Actually, as I am a bit lazy, I have CPR on mine so it permaruns the guns. It is a wasted slot but it may make you feel more comfortable.
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Axebreaker Jones
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Posted - 2009.11.17 01:35:00 -
[10]
i've gone lazy on my fit not switching resists but this setup works fine for me, i could go 4 heat sinks but i find i like the extra optimal and bit extra tracking more
[Nightmare, Faylith 1] Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Photon Scattering Field II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Shield Boost Amplifier II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.11.17 07:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Yetanotheralt So everyone says how great the Nightmare is for level 4 missions but its terrible even with a cap injector you just cap out all the time
No I don't cap out. And the ship isn't terrible, maybe something is, but not the ship. Unless of course you're trying to use it against Guri or Angel .
Your logical mistakes with regards to fitting have already been pointed out, i.e. going for high hp/s repped with a highly inefficient booster, over higher resists & shield ehp & efficient repping, when you don't have the cap for the former.
Web is pretty meh too, you can work around the need for it and have a tc instead. Be quicker and don't let them get close.
If you can't manage full aggro on a cargohold full of boosters, then, manage aggro and do it in portions.
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Omar Khayyam
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.17 08:47:00 -
[12]
heres my nightmare for lvl4 missions. i used it for a while but then i sold it for buying a vargur because i am doing missions in matar space and you know those angels have some high em/therm resists.
it doesnt have those multi-billion shield boosters, but 2x small plex boosters (they cost about 250mil. for a pair) and that tank is more than enough for missions in my space. you can turn off the turrets when you need cap (it goes up to %45 while hardeners/boosters on). and it runs about 4 mins with everything turned on. (it takes longer in real life because you are not going to fire weapons without pausing. you will switch targets, etc..).
also this tank is for angels. switch hardeners as needed. Also you can swap the boost amp for a cap booster for perma run, or a tracking computer.
[Nightmare, Nightmare Miss] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Damage Control II
Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Explosion Dampening Field II Explosion Dampening Field II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II
Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II
Semiconductor Memory Cell I Semiconductor Memory Cell I Semiconductor Memory Cell I
Hammerhead II x5 Warrior II x5
------------------------------------------------ cruisers used to be a great power when i started this game :) |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.17 10:01:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 17/11/2009 10:05:27
Invul fields use a ****ton of cap, use 3 or 4 mission specific hardeners instead.
Faction guns use a lot less cap than t2, so they are a wise investment.
[Nightmare, pve] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Domination Tracking Enhancer Domination Tracking Enhancer
Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Gist A-Type Photon Scattering Field Gist A-Type Photon Scattering Field Gist A-Type Heat Dissipation Field Gist A-Type Heat Dissipation Field [empty med slot]
Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Capacitor Control Circuit II Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Valkyrie II x5
Fit last mid and highs to taste. I tried messing around with discharge elutrations and CDFCS but CCC give the best average result. With 5% implants for cap amount and recharge and good timing of the shieldbooster this is a very solid setup. If you are still worried about cap, one heavy nos will bring you close to cap stable.
- Sok.
Don't know who to vote for? Find out with CSM matchmaker!
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brocksamson316
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Posted - 2009.11.17 10:10:00 -
[14]
The problem here is tech 2 tachs suck too much cap every time they fire. In my opinion faction guns are essential to help with manageable capacitor. Get 4 amarr navy tachyons and you should be fine, also drop 1 boost amp for a caldari navy invul.
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Shemhamphorash
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Posted - 2009.11.17 11:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: brocksamson316 The problem here is tech 2 tachs suck too much cap every time they fire. In my opinion faction guns are essential to help with manageable capacitor. Get 4 amarr navy tachyons and you should be fine, also drop 1 boost amp for a caldari navy invul.
Saves you a couple of seconds and you don't really need a xl booster, large works fine.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2009.11.17 13:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Yetanotheralt
4x Tachyon beam laser IIs
True Sansha web Caldari navy XL shield booster 2x Caldari navy boost amplifiers 2x mission specific T2 Hardeners Heavy capacitor booster II
3x Amarr navy heatsink Tracking enhancer II Damage control II
3x Capacitor control circuit Is
.. but somehow the ship doesnt seem to work and a normal T2 fitted Apocolypse seems to tank better and finish the missions as fast.
tl;dr
- lows are fine
- T2 tachs are fine for cap boosted setup just, as long as you stick to AN crystals. T2 Aurora crystals should prove very useful if you're heavily TDed but targets are still far away with low transversal. Don't even touch T2 Gleam.
- web is fine against Angel, drop it for a TC against the rest.
- optimal shield resist uses 4 slot hardeners. An SBA is only beneficial in limited situations, never use it if you're up against Blood/Sansha. Your setup effectively burns your cap repairing huge amount of damage caused by the lower resists.
- you don't need anything larger than a large shield booster for the Nightmare. Gist large or Pithum/Gistum medium should be where you should be aiming for. The ideal would be the Gistum series, followed by Pithum and Gist series respectively for best cap efficiency.
- consider fitting a T2 Energy Discharge Elutriation (if you're poor) or a T2 CCC (if you're rich). The latter is best, but either are better than the single T1 CCC it replaces.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.11.17 14:00:00 -
[17]
[Nightmare, New Setup 1] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Tracking Enhancer II
X-Large Shield Booster II Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
Works good for me /maybe ill fit t2 locus sometimes/, but it isnt ideal ship vs angels...
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari The Confederate Navy Forever Unbound
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Posted - 2009.11.17 14:06:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton more resists, less boost amps.
This.
Also, my fit:
[Nightmare, Lvl 4 (Beams&Booster/] Tracking Enhancer II Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink
Pith B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Heat Dissipation Field II Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Pith B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Amarr Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II Large Energy Locus Coordinator II
Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
---- The Demigodess with a Conscience - An EVE IC Blog Personal Killboard |
McRoll
Minmatar Heatseekers
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Posted - 2009.11.17 14:15:00 -
[19]
Here's what works for me:
I use named guns(because I dont have the skills for t2 tachs) but that leaves me enough powergrid so I can fit 2x amarr navy heavy nos in the highs, together with a true sansha power diagnostic system in the low instead of the damage control.
Also, as already mentioned, get rid of one boost amplifier and replace it with a mission specific hardener. Less incoming damage means you dont have to boost that often.
Another thing you can improve, are your rigs. Instead of 3x CCC I run a CCC+Core defense capacitor safeguard+semiconductor memory cell. Try it in EFT, you can boost much longer with that combination.
Also, use some management in general. Boost early until your energy is around 30% (where the peak recharge is) , then less. Works for me very well even if I have worse skills then you.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.17 14:33:00 -
[20]
I have a feeling your skills are comming into play here as well as running the SB all the time rather than in bursts. My nightmare is perfectly fine for cap dispite EFT saying its should give up and die after just over a minute. I rarely even need the cap booster. Personaly I would drop the web and one of the boost amplifiers and fit two more mission specific hardeners.
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demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus
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Posted - 2009.11.17 15:24:00 -
[21]
here is what ive been using as an injected setup
[Nightmare, xl boost/injected] Ammatar Navy Heat Sink Ammatar Navy Heat Sink Ammatar Navy Heat Sink Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Ammatar Navy Heavy Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800
Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Ammatar Navy Tachyon Beam Laser, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I
Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I Large Core Defence Operational Solidifier I
Hammerhead II x5
ya can replace the faction with t2 and it works just as well
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snake133
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Posted - 2009.11.17 15:31:00 -
[22]
try swapping the tachyons with pulses, their dps is better and scortch gets ur range i used to have one doing lvl 4s full caldary navy and amar navy fit with ammar navy megapulses never had to worry about cap, jst be a little better at managing it plus the pulses should be around 1kdps so u shouldnt have any problems tanking and shredding anything within 30km. i notice tachs do eat cap alot more then pulses though so maybe try megapulse or dualpulse...
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Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.17 15:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Yetanotheralt Honestly imo thats counterproductive it would take me so long for the ship to actually pay for itself I could just take that kind of money and spend it on the things I need instead of spending it on a PVE ship.
so it's counterproductive to use an overpriced item to run level 4's? Maybe you should have made that same argument before buying, oh...idk...a NIGHTMARE? |
Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.17 20:01:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 17/11/2009 20:02:10
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton more resists, less boost amps.
This nicely sums up your problem. Also a Pith large booster is tailor-made for a Nightmare and not too expensive. I used that and never had any problems. I also would ditch the web since it is useful only very very rarely and your drones should be what deals with stuff getting too close.
And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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SkyMeetFire
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.11.19 06:46:00 -
[25]
So I might be the crazy one here, but when I read level 4 missions, cap injector is not what comes to mind. I normally run a cap recharger setup that keeps your cap inline without ever having to worry about cap charges. Might not quite as much damage or tank as other builds, but it can easily tank almost every level 4 and it fantastic for blitzing missions for LP (dock, turn in mission, undock for next, no checking ammo or cap boosters). I never even change out the hardeners, that combo works well for pretty much every mission as long as you are smart and handle aggro. It also has the benefit of being cheap and thus making it a lower value gank target. Not a giant fan of putting a 1.5 bil mod up for gank bait when its completely unnecessary.
[Nightmare, Booster? We don't need no stinking booster!] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II
X-Large Shield Booster II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Warrior II x5 Hammerhead II x5
I usually bring AN MF, X, and Standards so I have damage over the entire targeting range. You can also switch out to pulses for close range missions perfectly fine. Hope this at least gives you something to think about compared to the other setups.
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.19 07:43:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Hyveres on 19/11/2009 07:42:55 That fit is fine for easier missions skyfire but in anything like "The blockade" or "Vengeance" you'd be ripped to shreds due to a crappy tank.
Yes the nightmare ganktanks but for some missions you need an acceptable buffer , normally done with high resists, and 3 hardeners simply wont cut it. "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound |
Yetanotheralt
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Posted - 2009.11.19 08:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton more resists, less boost amps.
Lots of helpfull advice but this summed the problem up nicely, switched out the mids for 2x specific hardeners and 2x specific faction resist amps to save a little bit of cap and I dont burn through the cap charges now.
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