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Multi-boxing... not 2, but 40- illegal?

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Red Flagsman	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:13:00 - [1] Lets be excessive for a moment. I'm a multiboxer- not a casual multiboxer though, a super multiboxer. I have 13 accounts for mining (10 barges, support) and I CLEAN belts. However what i rely on is cycle times that are long enough for me to go from client to client and change asteroids being mined. Its hectic. What I want to know is, since there solutions for World of Warcraft to give commands from one box to all the rest... would that break the EULA? If I put together the computer power and get 40 accounts, could I make the overviews + interfaces look identical and become a one-man blob?
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:14:00 - [2] I doubt Keyclone and similar programs to send the same mouse/kb input to multiple monitors would be considered illegal. The second you try to use macros it's a different story. --- Podlogs: Life in Veto
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:15:00 - [3] Edited by: Blane Xero on 17/11/2009 17:15:16 I'm guessing you are talking about using Synergy? So that one mouse and keyboard is good for several computers? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:21:00 - [4] Originally by: Red Flagsman What I want to know is, since there solutions for World of Warcraft to give commands from one box to all the rest... would that break the EULA? Nope. There is a goon doing just that, PvPing even. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=7044715 He's using Synergy -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Evoke. Ev0ke	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:38:00 - [5] using synergy is one thing, mirroring mouse commands to several clients is something different. ___________________ ---[SAY NO TO CYNO-LOGISTICS]---
Spurty Caldari Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:51:00 - [6] For some reason, although the intellectual side of me thinks it's very clever, the fair play side of me thinks doing this stinks to high heaven. Puts me off trying not becuase I can't compete but because doing this isn't really the experience I want to get from the eve. Ibsont want to come up against one man armies ever. The bitter twisted side of me is mostly upset that if I were to destroy all those ships, only one person would be upset. Oh and those that are reading this chuckling at my arithmetic, I'll point out I'm not two dimensional and my emotions are not tangible in the first place ;-) Originally by: Machine Delta When making a point, anyone taking it should consider the source. pretty deep coming from you
Ghost Lotus	Posted - 2009.11.17 18:05:00 - [7] Keyclone/Synergy should be legal (don't take my word for it...ask a GM) Macroing/Botting however will get you the BanHammer. For those that are confused on the difference. Multi-boxing using Keclone/Synergy, the user must physically input commands for the accounts to perform an action. If the user does not perform an action...they do not perform an action. Macro/Botting, the user uses a program to automate all/some actions...there is no one physically performing any action. The user is probably sleeping, doing laundry, masterb8ing, etc.
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross	Posted - 2009.11.17 18:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Ghost Lotus Keyclone/Synergy should be legal (don't take my word for it...ask a GM) Macroing/Botting however will get you the BanHammer. For those that are confused on the difference. Multi-boxing using Keclone/Synergy, the user must physically input commands for the accounts to perform an action. If the user does not perform an action...they do not perform an action. Macro/Botting, the user uses a program to automate all/some actions...there is no one physically performing any action. The user is probably sleeping, doing laundry, masterb8ing, etc. Forgive me for brining that... other game into this, but a certain popular MMO with millions of subscribers allows keycloning with multiboxing. Not sure about CCP though. Seems to be awfully shaky territory, though, so I would petition a GM about it. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made.
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2009.11.17 18:46:00 - [9] Did u say 13 accounts??? Now... might be a lil hypocritical since i used to own 2 accounts myself, but still... 13? And... u would get 40? walks away from thread shaking his head ________________________________________________
Benco97 Gallente Shadow Veil Industrial	Posted - 2009.11.17 18:48:00 - [10] Issues of EULA-legality aside it's still pretty low, just play the game the way CCP intend us to or go play something singleplayer instead of granting yourself immense artificial advantages. Forty mining barges that are all instantly controlled by one person may as well be one mining barge that mines forty times faster than anyone else, if you can't see why that's wrong in balance terms then I don't know what to say to convince you. ______________________________________________ Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Guttripper Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:00:00 - [11] Sam Deathwalker - is that you?
Gieron Middleton and Mercer LLP	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Benco97 Forty mining barges that are all instantly controlled by one person may as well be one mining barge that mines forty times faster than anyone else But it would also cost him forty times more in RL money. I really can't see it working out economically compared to just buying and selling GTCs.
NyteTyger Gallente NiteSun Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Ghost Lotus Macroing/Botting however will get you the BanHammer. I wish people would quit doing this, it's completely inaccurate. Macroing and botting are totally different things. Botting is using a program to perform functions while the user is, as you say, not actively operating the characters. This violates the EULA. Macroing is using a program to automate certain key strokes and mouse movements for the convenience of the user. While they can be used to run bots, that is not the only use for them. Proper usage of a macro is not a violation of EULA. Sorry, had to get that out of my system. To the OP, I don't think it would violate the EULA as long as you are there actively controlling the character's actions and movements. Those saying that having multiple accounts is not how CCP intended the game to be played have obviously missed the Po2 promotion. But holy crap, 40 characters? Hell, I'd have trouble with the 13, since managing just my four drives me up the wall. Although, I'm doing combat, you're doing mining, so that could be the key difference.
Percy Soars	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:23:00 - [14] I dont see anything wrong with it. If one wants to pay for 40 accounts thats ones business. The advantage is spread over accounts and comes with the running cost of those accounts.
Benco97 Gallente Shadow Veil Industrial	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Gieron But it would also cost him forty times more in RL money. I really can't see it working out economically compared to just buying and selling GTCs. In-game ability should have nothing to do with how much disposable income you have. Were it up to me then everyone would be limited to a single account, nobody should have an advantage like that over anyone else and "But I NEED two accounts to move my carrier/whatever" doesn't hold water, you're playing an MMO FFS, get another player to help you or play something singleplayer if you insist on ignoring everyone for your own sake. To equal one person running ten accounts the real player needs nine friends, who the hell does the multi-boxer think he is to feel he deserves that sort of advantage over others? Utterly pathetic. ______________________________________________ Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
NyteTyger Gallente NiteSun Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:33:00 - [16] Originally by: Benco97 Originally by: Gieron But it would also cost him forty times more in RL money. I really can't see it working out economically compared to just buying and selling GTCs. In-game ability should have nothing to do with how much disposable income you have. Were it up to me then everyone would be limited to a single account, nobody should have an advantage like that over anyone else and "But I NEED two accounts to move my carrier/whatever" doesn't hold water, you're playing an MMO FFS, get another player to help you or play something singleplayer if you insist on ignoring everyone for your own sake. To equal one person running ten accounts the real player needs nine friends, who the hell does the multi-boxer think he is to feel he deserves that sort of advantage over others? Utterly pathetic. Yeah, I should feel horrible because my play time is erratic, and when I'm on I have things I'd like to do without waiting on other people's schedules. Oh, roaming gang going out? Oh well, there went those others I need to help me accomplish something. Good call
Clone 1 Occision	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Benco97 Originally by: Gieron But it would also cost him forty times more in RL money. I really can't see it working out economically compared to just buying and selling GTCs. In-game ability should have nothing to do with how much disposable income you have. Were it up to me then everyone would be limited to a single account, nobody should have an advantage like that over anyone else and "But I NEED two accounts to move my carrier/whatever" doesn't hold water, you're playing an MMO FFS, get another player to help you or play something singleplayer if you insist on ignoring everyone for your own sake. To equal one person running ten accounts the real player needs nine friends, who the hell does the multi-boxer think he is to feel he deserves that sort of advantage over others? Utterly pathetic. How about disposable time? Is it fair that 'player a' plays all day (20hrs a day) making isk ratting mining pvping, but I can only get 1 hour a day of play time? Should we limit play time too. Nice rule book you have there. -------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box
Kewso	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:51:00 - [18] yea nothing illegal about macroing, it's the botting that is. for macroing I macro the hell out of it, since I use a Nostromo and a G15 to simplify keystrokes, but I'm still sitting here.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2009.11.17 20:05:00 - [19] Hey buddie, I only have one question for you, and it is without prejudice, slight or any intended malice that I ask it... Why on earth would you want 40 accounts to mine with simultaneously?
Marko box Caldari Kumovi Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.11.17 20:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Hey buddie, I only have one question for you, and it is without prejudice, slight or any intended malice that I ask it... Why on earth would you want 40 accounts to mine with simultaneously? If he is living in 0.0 he will need them afther dominion to make some money and unlock upgrades ;) Because everyone else will just move to motsu :P
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.17 20:49:00 - [21] Edited by: Avon on 17/11/2009 20:50:50 Originally by: EULA CONDUCT A. Specifically Restricted Conduct Your continued access to the System and license to play the Game is subject to proper conduct. Without limiting CCP's rights to control the Game environment, and the conduct of the players within that environment, CCP prohibits the following practices that CCP has determined detract from the overall user experience of the users playing the Game: 1/ You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System. 2/ You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. 3/ You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play... at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. I assume "ordinary game play" is contoling a single client at a time (that is, if you are running multiple clients you are issuing commands to them directly and individually). I know the g15 was given a specific okay, but afaik macro progams in general are not allowed. アニメ漫画です
5pinDizzy Amarr State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.11.17 21:02:00 - [22] Originally by: Spurty The bitter twisted side of me is mostly upset that if I were to destroy all those ships, only one person would be upset. Thanks for my lol of the day.
NyteTyger Gallente NiteSun Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.17 21:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 17/11/2009 20:50:50 Originally by: EULA CONDUCT A. Specifically Restricted Conduct Your continued access to the System and license to play the Game is subject to proper conduct. Without limiting CCP's rights to control the Game environment, and the conduct of the players within that environment, CCP prohibits the following practices that CCP has determined detract from the overall user experience of the users playing the Game: 1/ You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System. 2/ You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. 3/ You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play... at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. I assume "ordinary game play" is contoling a single client at a time (that is, if you are running multiple clients you are issuing commands to them directly and individually). I know the g15 was given a specific okay, but afaik macro progams in general are not allowed. Those ellipses there left out a pretty big part, eh? You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. So using a macro to, say, launch drones, or WTZ, is certainly not against those terms. Using Synergy is not against those terms. Using a program to more efficiently monitor and communicate with multiple programs on your computer doesn't violate those terms, either. Saying macros in general are not allowed is overstating by a large margin. Especially when they've specifically allowed equivalent products. Botting gives significant advantage, allowing players to gather resources and wealth while not playing the game. Macros do not have this inherent functionality.
Dan Grobag Caldari French Empire Squad	Posted - 2009.11.17 22:04:00 - [24] Edited by: Dan Grobag on 17/11/2009 22:06:02 Originally by: Thuul'Khalat I doubt Keyclone and similar programs to send the same mouse/kb input to multiple monitors would be considered illegal. The second you try to use macros it's a different story. Whether you automatize your game for parallelization or directly on it's processing is kind of the same, you just have moved that problem around, even if in a more sounding way for ccp
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.11.17 22:14:00 - [25] I think you can use the petition system for things like this I think you file it under other as well. Also how close do these mining barges sit and do you watch out for bs's popping up next to you, how well tanked are they and where do you usually mine???? ------------------------------ Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Daelorn	Posted - 2009.11.17 23:25:00 - [26] As long as you're at the computer you should be fine, even if you use a macro to do serveral things quickly should be no problem as long as you're activating them. But, I'm not CCP so don't listen to me
Shawna Gray Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.17 23:38:00 - [27] Originally by: Red Flagsman Lets be excessive for a moment. I'm a multiboxer- not a casual multiboxer though, a super multiboxer. I have 13 accounts for mining (10 barges, support) and I CLEAN belts. However what i rely on is cycle times that are long enough for me to go from client to client and change asteroids being mined. Its hectic. What I want to know is, since there solutions for World of Warcraft to give commands from one box to all the rest... would that break the EULA? If I put together the computer power and get 40 accounts, could I make the overviews + interfaces look identical and become a one-man blob? CCP seems to encourage multiboxing so i guess they will allow it. But 40 accounts my god you need a life. (It had to be said)
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.17 23:51:00 - [28] Edited by: ceaon on 17/11/2009 23:53:12 Originally by: Lubomir Penev . http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=7044715 bait link ? that link lead to a sing up page not to a killboard as expected Originally by: Shawna Gray But 40 accounts my god you need a life. (It had to be said) so having 40 accounts means u ppl play 24/7 ? * Thread locked.Because I dint like it
Jin Jemai Tripod Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.18 00:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Guttripper Sam Deathwalker - is that you? His post is coherent, and there's no mention of prostitutes or age of consent, so I doubt it.
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.11.18 00:20:00 - [30] Lol, the way I see it, you get what you put into it. I can take those same 40 accounts and turn them into ISK printing machines without ever spending more than an hour per year logged into each one. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.

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