EVE Search - Multi-boxing... not 2, but 40- illegal?

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Multi-boxing... not 2, but 40- illegal?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Red Flagsman	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:13:00 - [1] Lets be excessive for a moment. I'm a multiboxer- not a casual multiboxer though, a super multiboxer. I have 13 accounts for mining (10 barges, support) and I CLEAN belts. However what i rely on is cycle times that are long enough for me to go from client to client and change asteroids being mined. Its hectic. What I want to know is, since there solutions for World of Warcraft to give commands from one box to all the rest... would that break the EULA? If I put together the computer power and get 40 accounts, could I make the overviews + interfaces look identical and become a one-man blob?
Thuul'Khalat Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:14:00 - [2] I doubt Keyclone and similar programs to send the same mouse/kb input to multiple monitors would be considered illegal. The second you try to use macros it's a different story. --- Podlogs: Life in Veto
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:15:00 - [3] Edited by: Blane Xero on 17/11/2009 17:15:16 I'm guessing you are talking about using Synergy? So that one mouse and keyboard is good for several computers? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:21:00 - [4] Originally by: Red Flagsman What I want to know is, since there solutions for World of Warcraft to give commands from one box to all the rest... would that break the EULA? Nope. There is a goon doing just that, PvPing even. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=7044715 He's using Synergy -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Evoke. Ev0ke	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:38:00 - [5] using synergy is one thing, mirroring mouse commands to several clients is something different. ___________________ ---[SAY NO TO CYNO-LOGISTICS]---
Spurty Caldari Rionnag Alba	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:51:00 - [6] For some reason, although the intellectual side of me thinks it's very clever, the fair play side of me thinks doing this stinks to high heaven. Puts me off trying not becuase I can't compete but because doing this isn't really the experience I want to get from the eve. Ibsont want to come up against one man armies ever. The bitter twisted side of me is mostly upset that if I were to destroy all those ships, only one person would be upset. Oh and those that are reading this chuckling at my arithmetic, I'll point out I'm not two dimensional and my emotions are not tangible in the first place ;-) Originally by: Machine Delta When making a point, anyone taking it should consider the source. pretty deep coming from you
Ghost Lotus	Posted - 2009.11.17 18:05:00 - [7] Keyclone/Synergy should be legal (don't take my word for it...ask a GM) Macroing/Botting however will get you the BanHammer. For those that are confused on the difference. Multi-boxing using Keclone/Synergy, the user must physically input commands for the accounts to perform an action. If the user does not perform an action...they do not perform an action. Macro/Botting, the user uses a program to automate all/some actions...there is no one physically performing any action. The user is probably sleeping, doing laundry, masterb8ing, etc.
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross	Posted - 2009.11.17 18:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Ghost Lotus Keyclone/Synergy should be legal (don't take my word for it...ask a GM) Macroing/Botting however will get you the BanHammer. For those that are confused on the difference. Multi-boxing using Keclone/Synergy, the user must physically input commands for the accounts to perform an action. If the user does not perform an action...they do not perform an action. Macro/Botting, the user uses a program to automate all/some actions...there is no one physically performing any action. The user is probably sleeping, doing laundry, masterb8ing, etc. Forgive me for brining that... other game into this, but a certain popular MMO with millions of subscribers allows keycloning with multiboxing. Not sure about CCP though. Seems to be awfully shaky territory, though, so I would petition a GM about it. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made.
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2009.11.17 18:46:00 - [9] Did u say 13 accounts??? Now... might be a lil hypocritical since i used to own 2 accounts myself, but still... 13? And... u would get 40? walks away from thread shaking his head ________________________________________________
Benco97 Gallente Shadow Veil Industrial	Posted - 2009.11.17 18:48:00 - [10] Issues of EULA-legality aside it's still pretty low, just play the game the way CCP intend us to or go play something singleplayer instead of granting yourself immense artificial advantages. Forty mining barges that are all instantly controlled by one person may as well be one mining barge that mines forty times faster than anyone else, if you can't see why that's wrong in balance terms then I don't know what to say to convince you. ______________________________________________ Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
Guttripper Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:00:00 - [11] Sam Deathwalker - is that you?
Gieron Middleton and Mercer LLP	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:15:00 - [12] Originally by: Benco97 Forty mining barges that are all instantly controlled by one person may as well be one mining barge that mines forty times faster than anyone else But it would also cost him forty times more in RL money. I really can't see it working out economically compared to just buying and selling GTCs.
NyteTyger Gallente NiteSun Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Ghost Lotus Macroing/Botting however will get you the BanHammer. I wish people would quit doing this, it's completely inaccurate. Macroing and botting are totally different things. Botting is using a program to perform functions while the user is, as you say, not actively operating the characters. This violates the EULA. Macroing is using a program to automate certain key strokes and mouse movements for the convenience of the user. While they can be used to run bots, that is not the only use for them. Proper usage of a macro is not a violation of EULA. Sorry, had to get that out of my system. To the OP, I don't think it would violate the EULA as long as you are there actively controlling the character's actions and movements. Those saying that having multiple accounts is not how CCP intended the game to be played have obviously missed the Po2 promotion. But holy crap, 40 characters? Hell, I'd have trouble with the 13, since managing just my four drives me up the wall. Although, I'm doing combat, you're doing mining, so that could be the key difference.
Percy Soars	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:23:00 - [14] I dont see anything wrong with it. If one wants to pay for 40 accounts thats ones business. The advantage is spread over accounts and comes with the running cost of those accounts.
Benco97 Gallente Shadow Veil Industrial	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Gieron But it would also cost him forty times more in RL money. I really can't see it working out economically compared to just buying and selling GTCs. In-game ability should have nothing to do with how much disposable income you have. Were it up to me then everyone would be limited to a single account, nobody should have an advantage like that over anyone else and "But I NEED two accounts to move my carrier/whatever" doesn't hold water, you're playing an MMO FFS, get another player to help you or play something singleplayer if you insist on ignoring everyone for your own sake. To equal one person running ten accounts the real player needs nine friends, who the hell does the multi-boxer think he is to feel he deserves that sort of advantage over others? Utterly pathetic. ______________________________________________ Originally by: P'uck You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
NyteTyger Gallente NiteSun Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:33:00 - [16] Originally by: Benco97 Originally by: Gieron But it would also cost him forty times more in RL money. I really can't see it working out economically compared to just buying and selling GTCs. In-game ability should have nothing to do with how much disposable income you have. Were it up to me then everyone would be limited to a single account, nobody should have an advantage like that over anyone else and "But I NEED two accounts to move my carrier/whatever" doesn't hold water, you're playing an MMO FFS, get another player to help you or play something singleplayer if you insist on ignoring everyone for your own sake. To equal one person running ten accounts the real player needs nine friends, who the hell does the multi-boxer think he is to feel he deserves that sort of advantage over others? Utterly pathetic. Yeah, I should feel horrible because my play time is erratic, and when I'm on I have things I'd like to do without waiting on other people's schedules. Oh, roaming gang going out? Oh well, there went those others I need to help me accomplish something. Good call
Clone 1 Occision	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Benco97 Originally by: Gieron But it would also cost him forty times more in RL money. I really can't see it working out economically compared to just buying and selling GTCs. In-game ability should have nothing to do with how much disposable income you have. Were it up to me then everyone would be limited to a single account, nobody should have an advantage like that over anyone else and "But I NEED two accounts to move my carrier/whatever" doesn't hold water, you're playing an MMO FFS, get another player to help you or play something singleplayer if you insist on ignoring everyone for your own sake. To equal one person running ten accounts the real player needs nine friends, who the hell does the multi-boxer think he is to feel he deserves that sort of advantage over others? Utterly pathetic. How about disposable time? Is it fair that 'player a' plays all day (20hrs a day) making isk ratting mining pvping, but I can only get 1 hour a day of play time? Should we limit play time too. Nice rule book you have there. -------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box
Kewso	Posted - 2009.11.17 19:51:00 - [18] yea nothing illegal about macroing, it's the botting that is. for macroing I macro the hell out of it, since I use a Nostromo and a G15 to simplify keystrokes, but I'm still sitting here.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2009.11.17 20:05:00 - [19] Hey buddie, I only have one question for you, and it is without prejudice, slight or any intended malice that I ask it... Why on earth would you want 40 accounts to mine with simultaneously?
Marko box Caldari Kumovi Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.11.17 20:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Hey buddie, I only have one question for you, and it is without prejudice, slight or any intended malice that I ask it... Why on earth would you want 40 accounts to mine with simultaneously? If he is living in 0.0 he will need them afther dominion to make some money and unlock upgrades ;) Because everyone else will just move to motsu :P
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.17 20:49:00 - [21] Edited by: Avon on 17/11/2009 20:50:50 Originally by: EULA CONDUCT A. Specifically Restricted Conduct Your continued access to the System and license to play the Game is subject to proper conduct. Without limiting CCP's rights to control the Game environment, and the conduct of the players within that environment, CCP prohibits the following practices that CCP has determined detract from the overall user experience of the users playing the Game: 1/ You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System. 2/ You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. 3/ You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play... at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. I assume "ordinary game play" is contoling a single client at a time (that is, if you are running multiple clients you are issuing commands to them directly and individually). I know the g15 was given a specific okay, but afaik macro progams in general are not allowed. アニメ漫画です
5pinDizzy Amarr State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.11.17 21:02:00 - [22] Originally by: Spurty The bitter twisted side of me is mostly upset that if I were to destroy all those ships, only one person would be upset. Thanks for my lol of the day.
NyteTyger Gallente NiteSun Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.17 21:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 17/11/2009 20:50:50 Originally by: EULA CONDUCT A. Specifically Restricted Conduct Your continued access to the System and license to play the Game is subject to proper conduct. Without limiting CCP's rights to control the Game environment, and the conduct of the players within that environment, CCP prohibits the following practices that CCP has determined detract from the overall user experience of the users playing the Game: 1/ You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System. 2/ You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. 3/ You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play... at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. I assume "ordinary game play" is contoling a single client at a time (that is, if you are running multiple clients you are issuing commands to them directly and individually). I know the g15 was given a specific okay, but afaik macro progams in general are not allowed. Those ellipses there left out a pretty big part, eh? You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. So using a macro to, say, launch drones, or WTZ, is certainly not against those terms. Using Synergy is not against those terms. Using a program to more efficiently monitor and communicate with multiple programs on your computer doesn't violate those terms, either. Saying macros in general are not allowed is overstating by a large margin. Especially when they've specifically allowed equivalent products. Botting gives significant advantage, allowing players to gather resources and wealth while not playing the game. Macros do not have this inherent functionality.
Dan Grobag Caldari French Empire Squad	Posted - 2009.11.17 22:04:00 - [24] Edited by: Dan Grobag on 17/11/2009 22:06:02 Originally by: Thuul'Khalat I doubt Keyclone and similar programs to send the same mouse/kb input to multiple monitors would be considered illegal. The second you try to use macros it's a different story. Whether you automatize your game for parallelization or directly on it's processing is kind of the same, you just have moved that problem around, even if in a more sounding way for ccp
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.11.17 22:14:00 - [25] I think you can use the petition system for things like this I think you file it under other as well. Also how close do these mining barges sit and do you watch out for bs's popping up next to you, how well tanked are they and where do you usually mine???? ------------------------------ Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
Daelorn	Posted - 2009.11.17 23:25:00 - [26] As long as you're at the computer you should be fine, even if you use a macro to do serveral things quickly should be no problem as long as you're activating them. But, I'm not CCP so don't listen to me
Shawna Gray Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.17 23:38:00 - [27] Originally by: Red Flagsman Lets be excessive for a moment. I'm a multiboxer- not a casual multiboxer though, a super multiboxer. I have 13 accounts for mining (10 barges, support) and I CLEAN belts. However what i rely on is cycle times that are long enough for me to go from client to client and change asteroids being mined. Its hectic. What I want to know is, since there solutions for World of Warcraft to give commands from one box to all the rest... would that break the EULA? If I put together the computer power and get 40 accounts, could I make the overviews + interfaces look identical and become a one-man blob? CCP seems to encourage multiboxing so i guess they will allow it. But 40 accounts my god you need a life. (It had to be said)
ceaon Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.17 23:51:00 - [28] Edited by: ceaon on 17/11/2009 23:53:12 Originally by: Lubomir Penev . http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=7044715 bait link ? that link lead to a sing up page not to a killboard as expected Originally by: Shawna Gray But 40 accounts my god you need a life. (It had to be said) so having 40 accounts means u ppl play 24/7 ? * Thread locked.Because I dint like it
Jin Jemai Tripod Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.18 00:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Guttripper Sam Deathwalker - is that you? His post is coherent, and there's no mention of prostitutes or age of consent, so I doubt it.
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.11.18 00:20:00 - [30] Lol, the way I see it, you get what you put into it. I can take those same 40 accounts and turn them into ISK printing machines without ever spending more than an hour per year logged into each one. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.11.18 00:22:00 - [31] Originally by: ceaon Edited by: ceaon on 17/11/2009 23:53:12 Originally by: Lubomir Penev . http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=7044715 bait link ? that link lead to a sing up page not to a killboard as expected Nah. Now you need to sign up before viewing battleclinic killmails is all. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Kweel Nakashyn shadow and cloaking Mordus Angels	Posted - 2009.11.18 00:39:00 - [32] Cool, with Synergy, Character farming is allowed. ~ Beer > Eve ? Eve > Beer ?
Sikozu Prioris Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.11.18 00:45:00 - [33] Originally by: Red Flagsman Lets be excessive for a moment. I'm a multiboxer- not a casual multiboxer though, a super multiboxer. I have 13 accounts for mining (10 barges, support) and I CLEAN belts. However what i rely on is cycle times that are long enough for me to go from client to client and change asteroids being mined. Its hectic. What I want to know is, since there solutions for World of Warcraft to give commands from one box to all the rest... would that break the EULA? If I put together the computer power and get 40 accounts, could I make the overviews + interfaces look identical and become a one-man blob? You ask in the wrong place. Make a petition clearly outlining what you are planning to do, and how it will be done. It may take a while to get a reply but it will but it crystal clear if it is allowed or will get you the ban hammer. Asking in the forum will just get you a bunch of trolls, or someone's opinion.
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.	Posted - 2009.11.18 01:27:00 - [34] I'm sure CCP will thank you for spending hundreds of dollars a month on them.
Tom Warrior	Posted - 2009.11.18 02:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Red Flagsman Hello, I have never known the pleasure of a woman. If I put together the computer power and get 40 accounts, could I make the overviews + interfaces look identical and become a one-man blob? Fixed.
Adeline Grey	Posted - 2009.11.18 03:15:00 - [36] Yes, they are legal. People do it now. CCP likes money too and would not ban a customer who had 40 accounts. Just don't sell that ISK on Ebay, CCP does not like anyone infringing on their RMT scam they got going with PLEX and GTCs.
Rhanna Khurin Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.11.18 04:13:00 - [37] Edited by: Rhanna Khurin on 18/11/2009 04:16:25 I personally would ban anyone multiboxing anything. As you're using third party software in game. Sure you don't automate it, but it looks like a clear EULA violation.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2009.11.18 04:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Adeline Grey Yes, they are legal. People do it now. CCP likes money too and would not ban a customer who had 40 accounts. Just don't sell that ISK on Ebay, CCP does not like anyone infringing on their RMT scam they got going with PLEX and GTCs. You better have a dev or GM quote for that ****. Technically speaking replication of input across multiple machines is a macro, and using macro's for stuff like auto-mining and stuff isn't allowed afaik. (Wait, what... you think 'bot' is something completely different from a set of macro's being looped?)
Elvid Tanz	Posted - 2009.11.18 04:39:00 - [39] Originally by: Benco97 In-game ability should have nothing to do with how much disposable income you have. Were it up to me then everyone would be limited to a single account, nobody should have an advantage like that over anyone else and "But I NEED two accounts to move my carrier/whatever" doesn't hold water, you're playing an MMO FFS, get another player to help you or play something singleplayer if you insist on ignoring everyone for your own sake. To equal one person running ten accounts the real player needs nine friends, who the hell does the multi-boxer think he is to feel he deserves that sort of advantage over others? Utterly pathetic. That makes about as much sense as: In-game ability should have nothing to do with how much free time you have. Were it up to me then everyone would be limited to the same amount of play time, nobody should have an advantage like that over anyone else ... blah, blah, blah Why not take it further: everyone should be exactly alike in everything, no advantage allowed for income, intelligence, skill, or good looks. Sorry, that's not how life works, why should our games?
NyteTyger Gallente NiteSun Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.18 05:08:00 - [40] Originally by: Rhanna Khurin Edited by: Rhanna Khurin on 18/11/2009 04:16:25 I personally would ban anyone multiboxing anything. As you're using third party software in game. Sure you don't automate it, but it looks like a clear EULA violation. Wait, how do you mean? How does multi-boxing require 3rd party software? You can multi-box, meaning run multiple clients simultaneously, without the use of any 3rd party software is why I'm confused by your statement.
Alezander Jagen JagenCorp Combat Industries	Posted - 2009.11.18 05:59:00 - [41] If you're there hitting each (or at least most) of the keystrokes, go for it. The issue people are having is balance (you're paying for 40 accounts so you have 40 times the advantage. of sorts) and the difference between bots and macros. Macro - you set up one key so that it will run multiple keystrokes in a row (eg. hitting the A key, which then outputs A,B,C,D,E... in a row. You hit it again, it does the same thing. Bot - 3rd party program that will use macros to automate a process. It may make decisions on its own, without input from the user. But yes, ask a GM before you do anything. I'm sure they won't ban you for asking about it.
Jojo Jackson	Posted - 2009.11.18 06:11:00 - [42] Multi accounting isn't multi boxing. Running several acc at one PC is multi accounting. As soon as you use several computer you are mutli boxing. So multi boxing is the next level of multi accounting. Up to a curtain number, multi accounting is no real problem as you can manage to play them all without any use of 3t party tools. If you can manage 10 acc without using external programms ... it's all fine. (But I still belive, that using more then 1 acc effective without third party tools for PvP isn't posible at all). ANY third party software/hardware to make it more effectiv is illegal. More and more game manufakturer don't even allow gaming hardware like G15/G8/Razor and so on. They disable the driver-marko-abilitys. Yes, I once bought a G15/G8 combination too and wasted the money :(. But at the end I can understand why they disable my macro-drivers to boost fair-play.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.11.18 06:15:00 - [43] Originally by: Jojo Jackson ANY third party software/hardware to make it more effectiv is illegal. By extension of that, me using a second monitor while playing eve should be Illegal. Using a better graphics card that will more effectively handle two-three clients is illegal. Using a mouse that allows me to bind ingame shortcuts to side buttons to more effectively manage multiple accounts is illegal. Please, quit talking nonsense. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008 Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.11.18 07:23:00 - [44] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Cool, with Synergy, Character farming is allowed. If by that you mean training up multiple characters for the express intent to sell, then it isn't all the helpful and definitely not ideal. Now if you were going to standings grind them, maybe... but why would you do that? Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Admiral IceBlock Caldari Northern Intelligence The Purge Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.18 08:04:00 - [45] Nothing wrong with synergy, only non-human-bots are illegal. Besides, what can CCP do? Convo you and check if there is a human behind the character or not? Want to know more?
Drunken Joy	Posted - 2009.11.18 08:07:00 - [46] I'm a new player and i've already seen this too many times. The standing macro approval was not g15 specific btw. sigh.perma link this mkay thanks
Ashley Sky Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2009.11.18 13:29:00 - [47] I think it's funny how EVE counts its player #'s by subscription numbers. Here you have a guy admitting to running 13 accounts by himself. I bet 100 nerds in their basements account for a good 1/3 of the subscriber base. The rest is 1/3 macro miners, and the other 1/3 real players (maybe). Too funny.
Gun Gal	Posted - 2009.11.18 13:33:00 - [48] 13 accounts X monthly fee = stupidity, and a waste of your hard earned money for a game you will 99% not be playing in 10 years.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2009.11.18 14:46:00 - [49] Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 18/11/2009 14:49:46 Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Nothing wrong with synergy, only non-human-bots are illegal. Besides, what can CCP do? Convo you and check if there is a human behind the character or not? Hmmm... Quote: 2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. 3. You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. According to the EULA, synergy wouldn't be allowed. So as I said above, better get a GM or dev confirmation that it is before you risk your accounts to the banhammer. Originally by: "Guilty Hick Social Client" I think it's funny how EVE counts its player #'s by subscription numbers. Here you have a guy admitting to running 13 accounts by himself. I bet 100 nerds in their basements account for a good 1/3 of the subscriber base. The rest is 1/3 macro miners, and the other 1/3 real players (maybe). Except we got numbers from the statistical team (much more reliable than you) who says that's not the case, and that a _large_ majority of accounts do not have alts.
AvaAlt	Posted - 2009.11.18 14:52:00 - [50] If you feel you need 40 accounts, you have deeper problems than whether youll be banned for using Synergy.
N'tek alar Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.18 14:55:00 - [51] Originally by: Ashley Sky I think it's funny how EVE counts its player #'s by subscription numbers. Here you have a guy admitting to running 13 accounts by himself. I bet 100 nerds in their basements account for a good 1/3 of the subscriber base. The rest is 1/3 macro miners, and the other 1/3 real players (maybe). Too funny. Confirming that there's 100 eve online nerds with a thousand accounts each paying 15k euro per month. ------------------------- I'm not shirtless damnit!
zombiedeadhead Minmatar The Tuskers	Posted - 2009.11.18 15:12:00 - [52] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Red Flagsman What I want to know is, since there solutions for World of Warcraft to give commands from one box to all the rest... would that break the EULA? Nope. There is a goon doing just that, PvPing even. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=7044715 He's using Synergy Yeah, but it can all go Horribly Wrong
Wonton Tomato Suicide Girls	Posted - 2009.11.18 15:36:00 - [53] Try to forget EULA for a second and wrap your noodle around this... Written rules are imaginary and randomly enforced. Game Mechanics and Interface are the true physical rule here. Just like gravity keeps a tard with 13 accounts from floating out of his grandparents basement and getting a jay-oh-bee. This thread really is saying, "Mining is so boring and repetitive that it takes 13 accounts to get some stimulation going". Maybe someday mining will entail interaction with real excitement. Things like taking damage from bumping into an asteroid because your driving sucks, overheated lasers frying themselves useless from not managing coolant, contaminated ore melting holes through the cargo bay because you didn't pay attention to the blinky thingy (then your mined ore leaks into space and we all giggle), but no... there is no real excitement unless you're NOT a bot and your entire fleet of 13 ships just happen to get suicide bombed (and podded). Well, don't be a stranger to the clone station there sweet cheeks! Kisses, Wonton
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.11.18 15:55:00 - [54] Originally by: zombiedeadhead Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Red Flagsman What I want to know is, since there solutions for World of Warcraft to give commands from one box to all the rest... would that break the EULA? Nope. There is a goon doing just that, PvPing even. http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=7044715 He's using Synergy Yeah, but it can all go Horribly Wrong A solo vagabond could have killed all of those. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
NyteTyger Gallente NiteSun Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.18 16:08:00 - [55] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Edited by: Rakshasa Taisab on 18/11/2009 14:49:46 Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Nothing wrong with synergy, only non-human-bots are illegal. Besides, what can CCP do? Convo you and check if there is a human behind the character or not? Hmmm... Quote: 2. You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played. 3. You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. According to the EULA, synergy wouldn't be allowed. So as I said above, better get a GM or dev confirmation that it is before you risk your accounts to the banhammer. Nothing you quoted applies to Synergy. Synergy is not a macro program, it is a program that let's you control mouse movements via a network. It does not record or store keystrokes, it does not in anyway effect game play. It is, essentially, a mouse with a really long cord, and nothing more.
Caldari Citizen4714	Posted - 2009.11.18 17:02:00 - [56] Originally by: ceaon Edited by: ceaon on 17/11/2009 23:53:12 Originally by: Lubomir Penev . http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=7044715 bait link ? that link lead to a sing up page not to a killboard as expected No, it's a killboard. Battleclinic is basically one of the few highly recognized neutral killboards that lots of alliances, corps and solo players use since players often change corps or alliances multiple times, and you can put all your kills there. Basically it's an old, established, generally safe site for EVE. Most players don't even notice the login thing because most of us have accounts there, so we never see the login. And, you weren't always required to login before... I'd go ahead and sign up if I were you. - Support DISBANDING the Alliance CCP Renamed at the Alliance's Request
Vicarrah Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.18 19:48:00 - [57] Originally by: NyteTyger Nothing you quoted applies to Synergy. Synergy is not a macro program, it is a program that let's you control mouse movements via a network. It does not record or store keystrokes, it does not in anyway effect game play. It is, essentially, a mouse with a really long cord, and nothing more. That's fine and dandy, if you're using Synergy to control a single account. If, however, you use a single keyboard and mouse to control multiple accounts, that's on the other side of the line in my opinion, as you're effectively saving half the time taken to issue commands when you run two accounts, quarter it for 4 etc. If you have 10 accounts, and hop around like some kind of lunatic from one account to another, issuing commands... go for your (basement) life. but if you want it all nice and cozy and issuing the same commands to multiple accounts in the same time frame as you would do with a single account, then you're breaking the EULA IMHO. Vicarrah Tahiri Matriarch
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2009.11.18 19:59:00 - [58] Originally by: Vicarrah Originally by: NyteTyger Nothing you quoted applies to Synergy. Synergy is not a macro program, it is a program that let's you control mouse movements via a network. It does not record or store keystrokes, it does not in anyway effect game play. It is, essentially, a mouse with a really long cord, and nothing more. That's fine and dandy, if you're using Synergy to control a single account. If, however, you use a single keyboard and mouse to control multiple accounts, that's on the other side of the line in my opinion, as you're effectively saving half the time taken to issue commands when you run two accounts, quarter it for 4 etc. If you have 10 accounts, and hop around like some kind of lunatic from one account to another, issuing commands... go for your (basement) life. but if you want it all nice and cozy and issuing the same commands to multiple accounts in the same time frame as you would do with a single account, then you're breaking the EULA IMHO. Synergy doesn't work like that. It's a program for controlling multiple boxes with one mouse and keyboard but you only interact with each box one at a time. You basically treat each box like a different screen and can move the mouse pointer from one box to another. It'd be the same as having multiple accounts on one computer with lots of screens while playing in windowed mode. /not signed, key length too small
Vicarrah Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.18 23:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Originally by: Vicarrah Synergy doesn't work like that. It's a program for controlling multiple boxes with one mouse and keyboard but you only interact with each box one at a time. You basically treat each box like a different screen and can move the mouse pointer from one box to another. It'd be the same as having multiple accounts on one computer with lots of screens while playing in windowed mode. My mistake then. In this case it's probably on the legal side of things, personally I find it distasteful, but I've never been one to force my gameplay style on others ;) Vicarrah Tahiri Matriarch
Dacryphile	Posted - 2009.11.19 00:31:00 - [60] Originally by: Benco97 Issues of EULA-legality aside it's still pretty low, just play the game the way CCP intend us to or go play something singleplayer instead of granting yourself immense artificial advantages. Forty mining barges that are all instantly controlled by one person may as well be one mining barge that mines forty times faster than anyone else, if you can't see why that's wrong in balance terms then I don't know what to say to convince you. This "play the game CCP intended it" argument bothers me. CCP set EVE up for players to play the way the players want to, and CCP intrudes very little into that experience. Personally I find 13 accounts pretty **ing excessive, but that's me. Some people find 2 accounts excessive, but I'd say a huge portion of EVE players has at least 2. IMO, if he pays for all those accounts (not to mention all the computers and monitors needed to run 13 accounts simultaneously) he has the right to play them. As long as he isn't making bots, he isn't breaking the EULA. Originally by:** Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2009.11.19 04:01:00 - [61] Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 19/11/2009 04:32:52 Benco97 - go argue with CCP. EVE is DESIGNED to be played by multiple accounts. Anyone using Multiple Accounts IS playing the game the way it was intended to be played. If you've been playing more than a month and haven't realized that ... you're the one that's pathetic. As to one person judging another person's hobbies or how they play a computer game - as long as they play within the rules - trying to foist your opinion on them is silly. Now no one can keep you from posting your silly, pathetic opinions - just don't think that most of the people playing this game care what you think. Two Boxing ... as it used to be called ... is common place amongst many if not most online games. If someone doesn't like that - well that's just tough. As long as the vendors allow it - there's nothing wrong with it. So - someone has more money than you. Maybe someone else has better reflexes and eye sight. Yet another person - is smarter. Suppose there's someone who for whatever reason, has no money, horrible reflexes - is blind - and is also a moron. What should we do - penalize everyone else so that they are all on the same level as this poor unfortunate human being? Should the game - as was pointed out above - have the same poor speed and graphics as the worst computer that can possibly play it? They could do that you know. Don't want those people with the money to buy a better computer to have an advantage over anyone else ... If you don't like it - petition CCP to dumb the game down so that anyone can play on any machine. Lotsa luck with that ... Now ... as to the technical feasibility of running 40 accounts through a single internet connection ... you could well have a problem there. One of the reasons I gave up on WWII Online is that when I tried to 2 Box the game ... it crashed. I had two computers with an account on each and ... it would work for a while ... but then one of them ... and then the other would both go down. Running one account worked fine but the data being sent back and forth by that game was just to much for one internet connection - and this was a cable connection. So - trying to run 40 accounts through a single internet connection might pose a problem for you. Someone above mentioned running 13 accounts and I've heard else where of people with 10 but ... whether that would scale to 40 ... is hard to say. Of course - if you had the funding to manage 40 accounts then you might be able to get your ISP to give you more bandwidth if that posed a problem. Trying to manage that many accounts without resorting to bots ... might also be a limiting factor. Even if you're using Hulks ... you're going to be one busy little beaver ... Then ... you start running into the question of power and cooling. When I was a Sys Admin - one of the things we had to concern ourselves with when we set up a network - was how much power each connection was going to have to draw and how much air conditioning we were going to need to keep the computers from melting. Put a lot of heat generating devices in one room and you start having a problem. Now of course - we were running large, proprietary networking applications for a large organization so it had the funding for all the stuff it required to do that. For an individual to try and push 40 accounts ... even a 4 per machine - that's 10 machines. Most residential structures are not set up for that. If you scattered them throughout a house ... that would help with the heat distribution and power ... but ... you'd really have to have some remote management software to control them all. So ... in attempting to scale EVE up to that level ... it isn't just the 40 subscriptions that are going to get you. Now ... the other thing you might be thinking of ... is doing this at work ... I certainly worked in labs that had the capacity to handle it but then I'd have gotten fired for doing that ... Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools
IGA contact	Posted - 2009.11.19 10:45:00 - [62] Simple... macrooing and whatever program used to reproduce mouse/keyboard movement is an automation, so both should not be legal, if u want to have 40 chars making isks do with each one and be fair. Another thing, with 40 accounts and 1 or 2 hours playing per day making lets say 30 millions with each one per hour, so 40x30x2=2400 millions per day, so if he uses PLEXs to pay for accounts, make it 350m each PLEX which is not, 40x350=14000, so he just needs 14000/2400=5.833 so make it 6 days per month to pay all chars, so in a regular 30 day month he makes 24x2400=57600, oh yeah 57 billions of profit per month, and anyone knows he can make more per hour with each account and everyone knows that a person that have 13 accounts and want 40 does not play 2 hours of eve per day. I would say this person would make 100 billions per month... I cant see how this could be fair by making it easy with automation programs, and thats what they are. Cut the crap.
Miss Ogynist Hedion University	Posted - 2009.11.19 11:02:00 - [63] Originally by: Red Flagsman Lets be excessive for a moment. I'm a multiboxer- not a casual multiboxer though, a super multiboxer. I have 13 accounts for mining (10 barges, support) and I CLEAN belts. However what i rely on is cycle times that are long enough for me to go from client to client and change asteroids being mined. Its hectic. What I want to know is, since there solutions for World of Warcraft to give commands from one box to all the rest... would that break the EULA? If I put together the computer power and get 40 accounts, could I make the overviews + interfaces look identical and become a one-man blob? I thought I had no life until I read this post. This is just sad.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.11.19 11:12:00 - [64] I'm not saying anything but coding with .NET is relatively easy and making your own bots is not that hard .. how you think all those cool CS clans pwnz? With skilz? Yeah.. And there are NO bots in MY EVE! "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.11.19 12:27:00 - [65] Edited by: Shadowsword on 19/11/2009 12:27:02 Originally by: NyteTyger Those ellipses there left out a pretty big part, eh? "You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play." So using a macro to, say, launch drones, or WTZ, is certainly not against those terms. Using Synergy is not against those terms. Using a program to more efficiently monitor and communicate with multiple programs on your computer doesn't violate those terms, either. Any program that mirror player manipulations to several clients fall pretty squarely on the "...that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate... " quote. So that mean that if you want to use several accounts, you HAVE to control them individually. ------------------------------------------
Anghus McQuade Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.19 13:07:00 - [66] Originally by: Typhado3 I think you can use the petition system for things like this I think you file it under other as well. Also how close do these mining barges sit and do you watch out for bs's popping up next to you, how well tanked are they and where do you usually mine???? LOL, interesting questions indeed.
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.19 13:20:00 - [67] Edited by: Rastigan on 19/11/2009 13:22:23 Edited by: Rastigan on 19/11/2009 13:20:43 Originally by: IGA contact Simple... macrooing and whatever program used to reproduce mouse/keyboard movement is an automation, so both should not be legal, if u want to have 40 chars making isks do with each one and be fair. Another thing, with 40 accounts and 1 or 2 hours playing per day making lets say 30 millions with each one per hour, so 40x30x2=2400 millions per day, so if he uses PLEXs to pay for accounts, make it 350m each PLEX which is not, 40x350=14000, so he just needs 14000/2400=5.833 so make it 6 days per month to pay all chars, so in a regular 30 day month he makes 24x2400=57600, oh yeah 57 billions of profit per month, and anyone knows he can make more per hour with each account and everyone knows that a person that have 13 accounts and want 40 does not play 2 hours of eve per day. I would say this person would make 100 billions per month... I cant see how this could be fair by making it easy with automation programs, and thats what they are. Cut the crap. How is this different than 40 people making the same amount of ISK per account per month ? Its still 40 accounts. Its still the same amount of ISK. Also your figure of 30million isk per account per hour is probably off, I doubt that is even possible in empire, and 40 hulks is far to sweet of a prize to be unnoticed You are probably better off mirroring 5 drakes whizzing by lvl 4's.
ddooxx	Posted - 2009.11.19 17:33:00 - [68] Originally by: Benco97 In-game ability should have nothing to do with how much disposable income you have. Perhaps, but that is obviously not EVE. You can use money to buy PLEX to buy ISK and then buy both characters and ships. Someone could buy a 60m SP character and a couple of Titans on their first day. And twice as many supercarriers as before Dominion. :-) Legally. By Design. Someone already has spent 100k for ISK. In my experience, a large part of EVE is about getting unfair advantages over others. And spending RL$ for in game advantages is part of the game and available to anyone.
rodensteiner Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.19 17:45:00 - [69] Confirming that playing EVE with one account with only one character, no alts works perfectly fine. Over 1.5 years and going strong. Also confirming that OP is a whacko, and if I ever find your Hulk clone army, I will be suiciding it. Repetitively. _____________________________________________ I'm horrible at PVP
Psiri	Posted - 2009.11.19 18:14:00 - [70] Having 13 accounts, just for mining? Uhm, yea sounds suspect if you ask me. But assuming there's no shady business going on, well, people are free to do what they want with their own money. As for cloning your commands, personally I'm very much against this. Even though it's your commands being mirrored you're not actually physically playing both accounts. I don't really see much of a difference between that and a bot that you've written yourself. It doesn't really promote a better game either. Lastly I don't think it would work out quite as well as in WoW when using large numbers of accounts, due to there being collision in EVE.
Psiri	Posted - 2009.11.19 18:45:00 - [71] Edited by: Psiri on 19/11/2009 18:45:53 Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk EVE is DESIGNED to be played by multiple accounts. Anyone using Multiple Accounts IS playing the game the way it was intended to be played. I'd very much like to argue this aswell. EVE is designed to be a multiplayer game where people must work together to make the most of it. I believe that the usefulness of multiple accounts is if anything a side effect of this approach, one which CCP didn't particularly mind and over time has grown comfortable with. I suspect that this is mostly just due to the extra revenue it generates. If CCP truly had designed the game around dualboxing they'd have allowed for multiple characters logged in at once on the same account.
Marcus Atntony The Element Syndicate Black Mesa Project	Posted - 2009.11.19 19:02:00 - [72] 13 accounts... 40 accounts! 0.o New plan ---> drop down to 2 accounts, go outside, see the sun, make real money, better society, and get laid, all in a days work.
NxN	Posted - 2009.11.19 19:08:00 - [73] 40 accounts... hmm.. inviting them all to one fleet could be a biatch Heck... you could even create your own 1 man coporation... like 'One Man Clicking'... ùùù ≡v≡
Dengen Krastinov Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.11.19 20:03:00 - [74] Originally by: Gun Gal 13 accounts X monthly fee = stupidity, and a waste of your hard earned money for a game you will 99% not be playing in 10 years. Maybe not in its current form but I'll be you a lot of isk that CCP will still exist and have a game out almost identical to the current eve in essence.
Red Flagsman	Posted - 2009.11.20 03:31:00 - [75] OP here. For anyone who thinks nerds are still in grandma's basement, unemployed, single virgins... I do desktop computer repair in the US Military. And my Fiance is going to help me tackle this project. Aside from being cooler than you AND getting 40 EVE accounts, my 13 accounts pay for themselves with PLEXes, mining for only 4 hours a day. They also pay for pocket change ISK so I can PVP like a moron and the PLEXes for 5 other accounts. So my one time and only cost for the remaining 27 accounts will be $540. Compared to the $3,000 I will be spending on computer parts for the project, that's not bad. Suicide gankers: Yeah, you get a handout, but I can break even if I endure one suicide gank per 5 days mining. I've been smartied twice in 6 months, so I've been pocketing a lot of ISK. Also, the minerals I mine should be able to build a dreadnought every 17 days, about as quickly as I'll be able to push them off the assembly line. EVE-mail me in game to contract my fleet! I'll be taking orders starting in November, 2010. Synergy looks good and I'd like to thank everyone for their input, this is probably the system I'll be using. 5 PCs / 8 clients a piece, on 1024x768 windowed with no effects. I'll have to control 1 PC to do the mining. Then of course my EyeFinity PC so I can play EVE at 5760x1080. Fly safe everyone
Jackson Brown	Posted - 2009.11.20 03:40:00 - [76] There is a Goonswarm member that has like 12 accounts and PvPs with them all at once using Drakes. He also mines with them.
Ze4K DK Gallente Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.11.20 04:26:00 - [77] Originally by: Red Flagsman OP here. For anyone who thinks nerds are still in grandma's basement, unemployed, single virgins... I do desktop computer repair in the US Military. And my Fiance is going to help me tackle this project. Aside from being cooler than you AND getting 40 EVE accounts, my 13 accounts pay for themselves with PLEXes, mining for only 4 hours a day. They also pay for pocket change ISK so I can PVP like a moron and the PLEXes for 5 other accounts. So my one time and only cost for the remaining 27 accounts will be $540. Compared to the $3,000 I will be spending on computer parts for the project, that's not bad. Suicide gankers: Yeah, you get a handout, but I can break even if I endure one suicide gank per 5 days mining. I've been smartied twice in 6 months, so I've been pocketing a lot of ISK. Also, the minerals I mine should be able to build a dreadnought every 17 days, about as quickly as I'll be able to push them off the assembly line. EVE-mail me in game to contract my fleet! I'll be taking orders starting in November, 2010. Synergy looks good and I'd like to thank everyone for their input, this is probably the system I'll be using. 5 PCs / 8 clients a piece, on 1024x768 windowed with no effects. I'll have to control 1 PC to do the mining. Then of course my EyeFinity PC so I can play EVE at 5760x1080. Fly safe everyone Post some pictures when you get it all up and running!
NyteTyger Gallente NiteSun Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.20 04:41:00 - [78] Originally by: Ze4K DK Post some pictures when you get it all up and running! This.
Nocts Minmatar Hmmzor.	Posted - 2009.11.20 05:15:00 - [79] Edited by: Nocts on 20/11/2009 05:15:50 Originally by: Benco97 Originally by: Gieron But it would also cost him forty times more in RL money. I really can't see it working out economically compared to just buying and selling GTCs. In-game ability should have nothing to do with how much disposable income you have. This is flawed logic. Here is why: What if I spend money for the following items, that you may not be able to afford: Highspeed Cable Internet for decreased latency and overall transfer capability A headset that has a microphone so I can use vent or the in-game voice utility A mousepad that provides less friction to my mouse, easing my pain and allowing me to play for longer periods A larger monitor with a larger resolution, allowing me to see more and keep things visually uncluttered, increasing my information processing A lamp so that I can see in the dark A notepad and pencil to write down notes that I need to remember in game, during combat, or similar If you can't afford a faster internet connection than mine, I have the latency advantage. If you have earphones without a microphone, I have the audible information advantage. If you have a heavy mouse with a rough mousepad, your wrists may hurt sooner and you'll take a break sooner than myself. If you have a smaller monitor, you won't have a wider field of vision and your interface may cover up more of the important events(see wide overview settings). If you don't have a lamp, you may have issues with keyboard presses (not likely) or simple navigation around your room. If I am using a notepad and pencil to write down information as needed (prices, mineral values, who is our tackler) and you don't have that, then you're at a disadvantage unless you try to store it all in your own memory (and beyond a certain point, say 100 man fleets, the notepad helps). Those all affect in-game abilities, to varying degrees. Those all depend on disposable income. I can achieve an in-game benefit by spending money, and I'm willing to bet you're as guilty as others. edit: I completely forgot. If I have a 4800 ATI and you have a GeForce 4, you may have rendering/fps issues when I do not. Yet another example. ---------
IGA contact	Posted - 2009.11.20 15:35:00 - [80] Originally by: Rastigan How is this different than 40 people making the same amount of ISK per account per month ? Its still 40 accounts. Its still the same amount of ISK. Also your figure of 30million isk per account per hour is probably off, I doubt that is even possible in empire, and 40 hulks is far to sweet of a prize to be unnoticed You are probably better off mirroring 5 drakes whizzing by lvl 4's. "Also your figure of 30million isk per account per hour is probably off" Do you know how much isks a players can make per hour mining arkonor or even highsec ores? stupid question obviously you have no idea, and if you consider he can have maximum mining bonus for all accounts and he can have an industrial account to manufacture, 100 billions per month could be an accurate value. Do not make comments about issues you do not know. "I doubt that is even possible in empire, and 40 hulks is far to sweet of a prize to be unnoticed" Completely irrelevant. If you cant see why is irrelevant... "How is this different than 40 people making the same amount of ISK per account per month ?" About the difference between 40 players making isks and one player using 40 accounts to make isks, if you cant see the difference I think you should make an IQ test and place on forum the result so we can all laugh. But I will explain, 40 players would make the same amount but the isks would be divided accordingly, you know, like a regular mining corp?!? 1 player using 40 accounts thats fine to me if he manages them all individually, but if he uses some kind of automation to do it, its just wrong, because he is playing with one account and making isks like he is playing with 40 accounts, and the isks are not divided between characters, maybe because its just one person?!?
James Tritanius	Posted - 2009.11.20 16:47:00 - [81] Edited by: James Tritanius on 20/11/2009 16:50:02 Originally by: IGA contact "Also your figure of 30million isk per account per hour is probably off" Do you know how much isks a players can make per hour mining arkonor or even highsec ores? stupid question obviously you have no idea, and if you consider he can have maximum mining bonus for all accounts and he can have an industrial account to manufacture, 100 billions per month could be an accurate value. The maximum amount of isk/hour one can generate from highsec mining is under 15mil/hour, and that is a very generous estimate. Now, factor in 40-man fleet logistics, I doubt they'd even be making 10mil/hour each.
Pseudo Sasaya	Posted - 2009.11.20 17:28:00 - [82] Even if you do everything above the level, this still might get you banned. Unholy Rage does not have much of a review process, so all they have to do is say 'you were trading money!' and regardless of if you were or not, you are banned. Apparently, just running lots of clients is sufficient evidence for RMT to get you banned (since there is 'no reason' for someone to be doing so). Unless you are in an alliance of course, in which case you are being a good player and funding null sec wars in which case the same behavior is a'ok.
Propheos	Posted - 2009.11.20 19:14:00 - [83] Originally by: Benco97 Originally by: Gieron But it would also cost him forty times more in RL money. I really can't see it working out economically compared to just buying and selling GTCs. In-game ability should have nothing to do with how much disposable income you have. Were it up to me then everyone would be limited to a single account, nobody should have an advantage like that over anyone else and "But I NEED two accounts to move my carrier/whatever" doesn't hold water, you're playing an MMO FFS, get another player to help you or play something singleplayer if you insist on ignoring everyone for your own sake. To equal one person running ten accounts the real player needs nine friends, who the hell does the multi-boxer think he is to feel he deserves that sort of advantage over others? Utterly pathetic. I find it interesting seeing everyone getting so worked up over this. For every problem, there is a solution: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=3298&tid=7
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2009.11.20 20:15:00 - [84] Dear OP, Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Good luck getting it working. Sounds like a fun project. Thirding the request for pic.s when you have it up and running. Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
NocturnalDeath Killed In Action	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:07:00 - [85] Originally by: Guttripper Sam Deathwalker - is that you? ATSQ is that you?
Koro Sarum Amarr Space Perverts D0GS OF WAR	Posted - 2009.11.21 05:48:00 - [86] Originally by: IGA contact Simple... macrooing and whatever program used to reproduce mouse/keyboard movement is an automation, so both should not be legal, if u want to have 40 chars making isks do with each one and be fair. Another thing, with 40 accounts and 1 or 2 hours playing per day making lets say 30 millions with each one per hour, so 40x30x2=2400 millions per day, so if he uses PLEXs to pay for accounts, make it 350m each PLEX which is not, 40x350=14000, so he just needs 14000/2400=5.833 so make it 6 days per month to pay all chars, so in a regular 30 day month he makes 24x2400=57600, oh yeah 57 billions of profit per month, and anyone knows he can make more per hour with each account and everyone knows that a person that have 13 accounts and want 40 does not play 2 hours of eve per day. I would say this person would make 100 billions per month... I cant see how this could be fair by making it easy with automation programs, and thats what they are. Cut the crap. ofc its not fair if he gets a 40 hour day lol learn hot to tell time also in 0.0 with having a schedule where u can play right after downtime 100bil a month is easy to get with all the officer spawns -I am by far the most annoying person ive ever met -if you though sparta was madness, obviously you haven't met me
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.21 11:32:00 - [87] The point about how much isk you make is moot, since if enough people do what the op is proposing, it'd crash mineral prices through oversupply It's the same as the datacore alts; Once you grind standings, you can just farm off datacores from all your alts without necessarily playing the game. Unless things have changed since I resubbed, you don't even need to be subscribing on any of the accounts until it is time to log in and claim your cores. In fact, the mechanics of how you aquire datacores almost fall into CCP's own EULA defenitions as quoted above (you're two clicks away from being automatically awarded items) Interesting debate, as most people seem to have some sort of vague blurry line of acceptability with regards to numbers of accounts being used. "2 or 3 or 4 is ok, but 13, 14, 40 isn't" without going into how 39 accounts are any more or less acceptable than 40 I also tend to lean towards the attitude that playing a game that you can automate (grind) means it isn't a very well designed game (i.e. mining is boring) Equally, in RL, you'd be a fool to not use automation for simple, or even complex, automatable tasks (Take a look around the room and ask how many of the items around you were completely hand made, without machine automation. Not to mention that they would probably not have reached the shop shelves without use of machine automation in the distribution chain). It's further interesting to note that products in Eve manufactured by players have no unique selling points, no way to differentiate between them aside from their point of sale and price. No branding, no higher/lower quality, no durability factor Ultimately this means Eve's economy is particularly attractive to automation. You can automate datacore farming and mining (moon minerals, regular minerals and ice), production of T1 and T2 items from those sources (inc. BPC making and research at a POS, with ice products needed mined automatically), and all the hauling in-between automated using hauler macro's/bots. Price sniping can be automated, and with an extra layer placed above to ensure the automated price-snipers never go below cost price, you can fully automate sales. NPC item prices are capped, but volumes aren't, meaning if you take the max-sale price as the cost, you can just keep buying NPC items for POS fuel and some T2 item production Thus the only non-automatable tasks are to stop other players from attacking your operations (your moon mining POS, macro-miner gangs, research POS and alt-haulers) QED The Eve T1 & T2 industry is a solved game Of course, no one AFAIK has ever put all the parts together, but as this thread shows, and another I read a long time ago about a man with 100 odd datacore alt accounts, people have at least successfully automated the individual parts of the industrial processes in Eve in isolation I purposely only have one account (and essentially only one character on that account) because in RL, there is only one me. To have extra accounts would mean I lose value from the lessons I learn in Eve when applying them to RL, as in Eve, I simply made a second me to get round the problem, which isn't possible in RL (atm) Having 40 accounts is for me no different from having 2. The only differences are 1, and more than 1. If you have more than one, you avoid having to deal with other real people. You've not created a mining company of 40 people, just invented a way for you to operate 40 diggers and dump trucks in an internet spaceship game. Which ofc. you haven't done in RL The only justifications I could see are if you need a particularly large amount of isk for something and this is more cost effective than buying plexes or getting the isk some other way Or if you're just experimenting in machine automation (which seems to be the case with the op) Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Red Flagsman	Posted - 2009.11.21 15:40:00 - [88] Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 19/11/2009 04:32:52 Benco97 - go argue with CCP. EVE is DESIGNED to be played by multiple accounts. Anyone using Multiple Accounts IS playing the game the way it was intended to be played. If you've been playing more than a month and haven't realized that ... you're the one that's pathetic. As to one person judging another person's hobbies or how they play a computer game - as long as they play within the rules - trying to foist your opinion on them is silly. Now no one can keep you from posting your silly, pathetic opinions - just don't think that most of the people playing this game care what you think. Two Boxing ... as it used to be called ... is common place amongst many if not most online games. If someone doesn't like that - well that's just tough. As long as the vendors allow it - there's nothing wrong with it. So - someone has more money than you. Maybe someone else has better reflexes and eye sight. Yet another person - is smarter. Suppose there's someone who for whatever reason, has no money, horrible reflexes - is blind - and is also a moron. What should we do - penalize everyone else so that they are all on the same level as this poor unfortunate human being? Should the game - as was pointed out above - have the same poor speed and graphics as the worst computer that can possibly play it? They could do that you know. Don't want those people with the money to buy a better computer to have an advantage over anyone else ... If you don't like it - petition CCP to dumb the game down so that anyone can play on any machine. Lotsa luck with that ... Now ... as to the technical feasibility of running 40 accounts through a single internet connection ... you could well have a problem there. One of the reasons I gave up on WWII Online is that when I tried to 2 Box the game ... it crashed. I had two computers with an account on each and ... it would work for a while ... but then one of them ... and then the other would both go down. Running one account worked fine but the data being sent back and forth by that game was just to much for one internet connection - and this was a cable connection. So - trying to run 40 accounts through a single internet connection might pose a problem for you. Someone above mentioned running 13 accounts and I've heard else where of people with 10 but ... whether that would scale to 40 ... is hard to say. Of course - if you had the funding to manage 40 accounts then you might be able to get your ISP to give you more bandwidth if that posed a problem. Trying to manage that many accounts without resorting to bots ... might also be a limiting factor. Even if you're using Hulks ... you're going to be one busy little beaver ... Then ... you start running into the question of power and cooling. When I was a Sys Admin - one of the things we had to concern ourselves with when we set up a network - was how much power each connection was going to have to draw and how much air conditioning we were going to need to keep the computers from melting. Put a lot of heat generating devices in one room and you start having a problem. Now of course - we were running large, proprietary networking applications for a large organization so it had the funding for all the stuff it required to do that. For an individual to try and push 40 accounts ... even a 4 per machine - that's 10 machines. Most residential structures are not set up for that. If you scattered them throughout a house ... that would help with the heat distribution and power ... but ... you'd really have to have some remote management software to control them all. So ... in attempting to scale EVE up to that level ... it isn't just the 40 subscriptions that are going to get you. Now ... the other thing you might be thinking of ... is doing this at work ... I certainly worked in labs that had the capacity to handle it but then I'd have gotten fired for doing that ...
Leather Jack Kernite Commando	Posted - 2009.11.22 09:06:00 - [89] Regarding that Goon guy flying 12 Drakes or ravens or osprey's or whatever... There is only so much you can do as a single person behind all those synergic accounts. This is one option how to do it: How to loose over 1bn ISK in a minute
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2009.11.22 09:13:00 - [90] Originally by: Red Flagsman So my one time and only cost for the remaining 27 accounts will be $540. Compared to the $3,000 I will be spending on computer parts for the project, that's not bad. You're paying RL money to activate trial accounts? Or is this for character transfers? --- 34.4:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule
Red Flagsman	Posted - 2009.11.23 03:05:00 - [91] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Originally by: Red Flagsman So my one time and only cost for the remaining 27 accounts will be $540. Compared to the $3,000 I will be spending on computer parts for the project, that's not bad. You're paying RL money to activate trial accounts? Or is this for character transfers? There's no way to open an account (trial, purchased) without paying $5 for the account and $15 for the first month. $20 per account. But that first month is also long enough for me to mine in bursts until I can afford scythes, and the scythes will mine enough money for the retrievers. I will almost certainly have to go into personal savings for the 40 hulks, but it will repay soon enough.
Herpes Sweatrash	Posted - 2009.11.23 03:42:00 - [92] You can activate with a plex in game for ~285mil isk. Or buy a gtc. Don't have to pay the $5 account activation fee unless you do it via eve website.
Chuffer	Posted - 2009.11.23 10:46:00 - [93] OP, you need therapy. 13 accounts is already silly, but 40? Why?
Dapto Minmatar Dissolution Of Eternity MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.11.23 11:32:00 - [94] What i'd like to know Red is how long would it take you to GTFO with your 40 hulks, cause that would be to juicy to pass up Dapto
elorran Minmatar Department of Defence THE R0NIN	Posted - 2009.11.23 12:07:00 - [95] I've always wondered why CCP didn't try to make it possible to run multiple accounts from just 1 client. It would make running multiple charactors far less hassle if you could tab between them just like chat windows, and be a major save on system resources too. - - Department of Defence's Peeping Tom
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.11.23 12:42:00 - [96] Originally by: Dapto What i'd like to know Red is how long would it take you to GTFO with your 40 hulks, cause that would be to juicy to pass up Well I'm sure it wouldn't take long or cost much to find out. I await your experiemental results with interest.
Spii't Gelekk	Posted - 2009.11.24 11:58:00 - [97] Originally by: IGA contact Simple... macrooing and whatever program used to reproduce mouse/keyboard movement is an automation, so both should not be legal, if u want to have 40 chars making isks do with each one and be fair. Another thing, with 40 accounts and 1 or 2 hours playing per day making lets say 30 millions with each one per hour, so 40x30x2=2400 millions per day, so if he uses PLEXs to pay for accounts, make it 350m each PLEX which is not, 40x350=14000, so he just needs 14000/2400=5.833 so make it 6 days per month to pay all chars, so in a regular 30 day month he makes 24x2400=57600, oh yeah 57 billions of profit per month, and anyone knows he can make more per hour with each account and everyone knows that a person that have 13 accounts and want 40 does not play 2 hours of eve per day. I would say this person would make 100 billions per month... I cant see how this could be fair by making it easy with automation programs, and thats what they are. Cut the crap. you're forgetting the time required to log-in those characters, and now where at it, to start all the computers. Say that's an extra hour per gameplay window. If you only have time for 2 hours a day, you effectively have only 1 hour of gameplay. AND you need to undock, dock, transfer minerals. I'd say you get 30min. of mining out of that 2 hours. Even then, you'll be WORKING yourself to death. EVEN if you can keep this up for a month, you'll be burnt out and sick and tired of EVE stuck with 40 chars. Considering RL costs, i'd like to see this guys electric bills. uff..
Tallaran Kouros Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.24 13:02:00 - [98] Originally by: Red Flagsman Aside from being cooler than you AND getting 40 EVE accounts, my 13 accounts pay for themselves with PLEXes, mining for only 4 hours a day. For "only" 4 hours a day? Do you not have a life?
Red Flagsman	Posted - 2009.11.25 01:57:00 - [99] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Originally by: Red Flagsman Aside from being cooler than you AND getting 40 EVE accounts, my 13 accounts pay for themselves with PLEXes, mining for only 4 hours a day. For "only" 4 hours a day? Do you not have a life? Fine, I could play for approx. 40 minutes a day and still not pay a penny. Originally by: Spii't Gelekk Originally by: IGA contact Simple... macrooing and whatever program used to reproduce mouse/keyboard movement is an automation, so both should not be legal, if u want to have 40 chars making isks do with each one and be fair. Another thing, with 40 accounts and 1 or 2 hours playing per day making lets say 30 millions with each one per hour, so 40x30x2=2400 millions per day, so if he uses PLEXs to pay for accounts, make it 350m each PLEX which is not, 40x350=14000, so he just needs 14000/2400=5.833 so make it 6 days per month to pay all chars, so in a regular 30 day month he makes 24x2400=57600, oh yeah 57 billions of profit per month, and anyone knows he can make more per hour with each account and everyone knows that a person that have 13 accounts and want 40 does not play 2 hours of eve per day. I would say this person would make 100 billions per month... I cant see how this could be fair by making it easy with automation programs, and thats what they are. Cut the crap. you're forgetting the time required to log-in those characters, and now where at it, to start all the computers. Say that's an extra hour per gameplay window. If you only have time for 2 hours a day, you effectively have only 1 hour of gameplay. AND you need to undock, dock, transfer minerals. I'd say you get 30min. of mining out of that 2 hours. Even then, you'll be WORKING yourself to death. EVEN if you can keep this up for a month, you'll be burnt out and sick and tired of EVE stuck with 40 chars. Considering RL costs, i'd like to see this guys electric bills. uff.. My electric bill will probably run not more than $160. I use 80+ certified computer equipment. Also you have clearly never coordinated a large group of vessels. I've coordinated 13 with about 5 minutes of setup, another 40 seconds and we're in a belt. If its ice... that's 40 seconds of setup for infinite mining time. I've done 13 and now I wanna coordinate 40. easy.
Red Flagsman	Posted - 2009.11.25 02:57:00 - [100] Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 19/11/2009 04:32:52Now ... as to the technical feasibility of running 40 accounts through a single internet connection ... you could well have a problem there. I've clocked EVE with two clients as using about 14.5kbps, 40 would then theoretically run 290kbps, or one high grade cable line. Service in my town offers a 7 meg residential line, and this is the last excuse I needed!
Barkaial Starfinder Minmatar Conflagration. Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.11.25 04:01:00 - [101] One of CCP's biggest mistakes, allowing multi-accts it is.
Vampire Hitman	Posted - 2009.11.26 19:40:00 - [102] You lost me at "13 accounts for mining"
Schwarzbier Darkwave Technologies Kahora Catori	Posted - 2009.11.26 21:18:00 - [103] Edited by: Schwarzbier on 26/11/2009 21:18:42 Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Originally by: Red Flagsman Aside from being cooler than you AND getting 40 EVE accounts, my 13 accounts pay for themselves with PLEXes, mining for only 4 hours a day. For "only" 4 hours a day? Do you not have a life? Considering mining is basically a braindead semi afk activity, one could spend 4 hours a night playing and still get a lot accomplished in the real world. As crazy as this may seem to us, I stopped caring long ago about what other people do with their time and money. Wanna run 40 accounts, more power to ya.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2009.11.26 23:20:00 - [104] Edited by: Mr Kidd on 26/11/2009 23:21:16 Here's what you do: Write a macro for the commands you wish to initiate. Write a macro for a control bot that you send a command to and then it sends the appropriate commands to the appropriate alt. Join an irc network, create a channel. Connect all the computers to that irc channel. Then pipe your commands to your alt accounts through the irc channel bypassing Evechat. Wa-la, you have your fleet control. Now, I'm not advocating macroing, because honestly, I think ccp might turn a blind eye to a casual player doing it with another account because the player is technically interacting with both accounts, just streamlining the control process. But 13 accounts? I think you're S-O-L because that, I dunno, crosses some imagined line from reasonable to insane. They might even ban you just to save you from yourself.
Red Flagsman	Posted - 2009.11.27 02:15:00 - [105] Originally by: Schwarzbier Edited by: Schwarzbier on 26/11/2009 21:18:42 Considering mining is basically a braindead semi afk activity, one could spend 4 hours a night playing and still get a lot accomplished in the real world. As crazy as this may seem to us, I stopped caring long ago about what other people do with their time and money. Wanna run 40 accounts, more power to ya. That's the thing though, I'm hoping to take a semi-AFK braindead activity, multiply it by 40, but then streamline it to the point that its still manageable. I think features that would make this doable without specific software would be hotkeys to scroll through targets, and hotkeys to scroll down the overview, target from the overview, and of course the hotkeys we have to activate modules. That and a button to 'right click' in space, I might be able to play EVE without a mouse. I wish, mouses are slow compared to kb commands.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.