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Rapier / Huginn / Hyena need a bonus to webstrength!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Butzewutze	Posted - 2009.11.18 13:26:00 - [1] Hi, with nerfing webifiers ccp really screwed these ships and i wonder why they didnt received a bonus to webifierstrength to compensate. They shouldnt be overpowered but in my oppinion they really need some love. Thats all.
The Alchemist Gallente Enterprise Estonia Cult of War	Posted - 2009.11.18 13:30:00 - [2] Edited by: The Alchemist on 18/11/2009 13:30:15 agreed 100% and i cant even fly minmatar :P
Nova Soldier Caldari ROMANIA Renegades Legiunea ROmana	Posted - 2009.11.18 13:45:00 - [3] yes it does sound fair enough making it a plesure to fly theese ships once again!!
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.18 13:51:00 - [4] 3% boost at most Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
HairySack Hangin	Posted - 2009.11.18 13:58:00 - [5] Agreed 100%... They need a velocity modifier for their webs (get rid of the target painter bonus) so that a 60% web, at Recon V, will equal the 90% of old... +10% to velocity modifier of webifiers per level.
sue denim	Posted - 2009.11.18 14:22:00 - [6] agreed
Ryuzaki Lawliet Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.18 17:26:00 - [7] Agreed, but I doubt that we will get 10% bonus /level unless the range took a hit. Fight for a 5 or 7.5% bonus, since that will give us 75 or 82.5% webs @ lv. 5. Not 90%, I know, but still better than 60%, and helps to remove a chance of a web range nerf. Originally by: Vabjekf Once you have 12 decillion skill points you can equip smaller ships in your slots and shoot rifters at people
Lili Lu	Posted - 2009.11.18 17:28:00 - [8] I imagine the answer to your plea is really something like this: Hi Butzewutze, We here at CCP nerf modules and ships from time to time. Ok, well, we do it fairly regularly. However, we rarely provide a compensating buff, unless the ships in question are Caldari. You are not part of that majority. And, you don't have as vocal a whine squad. So, no, you do not qualify for a 33% increase in the strength of an already overpowered ew effect, at the same time as we are sorta nerfing you. I mean come on, preventing another ship from locking anything really needs some help, but partially slowing down another ship could be game breaking. Please live with a piddly 5% strength bonus on the fearful target painters, and your web range bonus. It means so much that you can 60% web at 40km (but likely still not want to do so unless you are within your 24km point). We certainly would not want you partially disabling a couple ships with a couple webs in your midslots. Learn to focus those two (or three webs if you wish to fly without a tank) webs on one ship, and still not prevent it from getting back to the gate anyway. Likewise, that webbed ship can still harm you, so maybe you should fit a tank, I don't know. Anyway, think about the poor ecm boats. And (more than your entreaty) That's all. 0/
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.11.18 17:53:00 - [9] I coudl live with the TP bonus if it was something useful. Like 20% per level... othwerwise there is NO reason to waste a slot on a rapier for a TP when you can have same effect on a vigil...
Grarr Wrexx	Posted - 2009.11.18 18:02:00 - [10] Huginn and Hyena do, but the Rapier does not. Rapier already has the advantage of covert cloaking, it doesn't need a strength bonus: same reason why the pilgrim doesn't need a range bonus.

Butzewutze	Posted - 2009.11.18 22:07:00 - [11] bump Dont forget that ccp!
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.11.19 00:41:00 - [12] I dont need a web strength bonus, in fact I believe no ship should have them. /Huginn pilot, about half my gametime
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.11.19 11:03:00 - [13] 90% would be too much I'm afraid, it would just massively increase the demand for these recons and make webs too much of an all-or-nothing weapon again. Maybe 7.5% per level so at lvl 5 it would become 501.375 = 68.74 for T1 webs and 601.375 = 82.5% for T2 webs. Or if CCP thinks that would be too much, just 5% per level would make them a lot more interesting. I'll add an item like this to my CSM list..its worth a try. Don't know who to vote for? Find out with CSM matchmaker!
Mr Yarrr Black Rise Angels	Posted - 2009.11.19 11:56:00 - [14] this is indeed needed, rather than the crappy target painter bonus that was obviously only added to the ships because they ran out of other Ewar bonuses to divide between the races. If we keep pushing this, we may get the buff in 1-2 years if we're lucky :)
Squischie	Posted - 2009.11.20 09:34:00 - [15] Agreed. Either strengthen the target painter bonus to something useful or give the webifiers more power to make them a pain. I bought my Hyena and was sadly disappointed that it was so weak compared to other minmatar tech II frigates.
Schmell	Posted - 2009.11.20 10:04:00 - [16] Remove TP bonus and give small bonus to web strength both for rapier and huginn No real need to make it like old 90%, just more than pathetic 60% ==== Too sad we will never see it
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.20 10:15:00 - [17] how about the ability to fit one ewar subsystem. We call call em tech 3 tech 2 ships and theres a whole new class Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
LiNuXb0y Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.11.20 10:52:00 - [18] Or script webs, a range script, taking it to say 13 km but drops the effect to 40%, and a % script that increases it to 80% but drops a normal web to 8km. Giving the recons @ lvl 5 52k webs @ 40% and 32k @ 80%. Would also be interesting on normal ships. This is for t2/fleeting webs, the scripts would also make lesser named webs viable, and the lower % faction webs viable (I mean come on when was the last time you saw a domi web used)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.20 11:06:00 - [19] Muthafreakin Signed. When a triple web mounted on a t2 specialized ewar ship with a webber based role bonus is still not enough to make your target slower than the ship with the webber based role bonus something is not quite right.
Derus Grobb Selectus Pravus Lupus	Posted - 2009.11.20 11:54:00 - [20] Give my rapier a web strength bonus! ---

HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.20 12:02:00 - [21] triple web bonus might work if 3 webs fitted Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.11.20 14:02:00 - [22] Originally by: Lilith Velkor I dont need a web strength bonus, in fact I believe no ship should have them. /Huginn pilot, about half my gametime I am rapier pilot myself. And I think it shoudl have a web strenght bonus. BUT webs should again be stack nerfed. Removign stack nerf from webs when of the speed nerf changed nothing on the point of view of the target. IT will stil be webbed to near 1 % of speed same way it was before speed neerf. Differene is that now you need a bigger blob of tacklers to do it. Wya to go CCP.. always helpign to make solo and small scale PVP worthless.
Myrkala Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous	Posted - 2009.11.24 05:12:00 - [23] Yeah i'd really like my t2 webs to be 70%-75% with recon 5 that should help a lot. - NO SPLIT WEAPON BONUSES ON THE NAGLFAR PLEASE!
Xing Fey	Posted - 2009.11.24 05:53:00 - [24] If anything only on the huggin in exchange for either the gun or missile bonus, and only 5% per level. What realy needs to be done is a tripling of painter base range and a doubling of painter ship bonuses...
John Blackthorn Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.11.24 21:18:00 - [25] Before patch I would fly huggin 90% of my pvp time, after patch I've flown it maybe 10%. yes it's nice to web at range however you can put 3 webs on fast ship and it can still out run the huggin with its' mwd on. So I just gave up on it. Your better off with arazul and using disruptors so you got points and you turn off the mwd. I think the huggin should have it's range reduced slightly and given a boost to web strenth. Maybe 5% per level so you get webs out to about 32km and a web strength of 85% with level 5 recon.
Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.25 00:35:00 - [26] Edited by: Tagami Wasp on 25/11/2009 00:36:37 Quote: I know you are not one of those "ECM is OP, nerf it NAOOO!!111!one !!eleven" guys, just pointing that ECM is chance based so the if it works part is a huge issue. You need max skills and even then, don't have 100% reliability of the module working as you expect. So I believe it is balanced. Based on the Rook and Falcon, I agree that SD, TD and TPs bonuses need to be boosted. So, why not remove the neut and web and scram bonuses from the rest of the recons to bring them in line with the Caldari ships? Also, let's give scripts to ECM, to bring them in line with SD and TDs, I don't know how to deal with TPs in that effect, but they could have a sig/range script as well, why not? How many would fly Curses w/out 30 Km neut? Arazu w/out 26 Km scram? Rapier w/out 40 Kms webs? If you'd like that, sure, give them the same bonuses as the Caldari line, no problem by me. This is what I wrote in the boost the Gallente Recons thread. I think it applies here as is, as well. You get 2 different E-war mods, scripted and better slot distribution than the Caldari Recons. Stop whining about ECm and focus on what the ships themselves need to get better. For example, here is a guy that knows what he is talking about: Originally by: Sokratesz 90% would be too much I'm afraid, it would just massively increase the demand for these recons and make webs too much of an all-or-nothing weapon again. Maybe 7.5% per level so at lvl 5 it would become 501.375 = 68.74 for T1 webs and 601.375 = 82.5% for T2 webs. Or if CCP thinks that would be too much, just 5% per level would make them a lot more interesting. I'll add an item like this to my CSM list..its worth a try. Those of you that whine about ECM obviously got face****d by a Rook sometime and they still can't get over it.
BANDIT BACKDOOR Minmatar Minmatar Gay Slave Right League	Posted - 2009.11.25 01:54:00 - [27] Edited by: BANDIT BACKDOOR on 25/11/2009 01:58:15 Originally by: Tagami Wasp BS stuff trying to derail subject. Couple of points: 1. webs/painters don't have scripts... 2. No one was whining about ecm and/or ecm ships being overpowered. IMO ECMs strength evens out with the weakness of ECM platforms once they lose jam - and the falcon change was spot on since it allowed people to actually capitalize on ECM failing, while giving ECM ships more defence in the form of drones/weapons/more ecm strength. TL;DR - ecm is fine as it is. However, you have a problem with both the dedicated minmatar and the gallente recons atm. Gallente have had their SD nerfed due to it being too effective on a regular ship, but the EWar ships weren't buffed to keep them balanced as dedicated EW ships. Minmatar got the shaft with the nanonerf, and since overall speed went down, so did web strength - but again, while changing the regular mod, they forgot to readjust the recon that relies on it. While caldari/amarr recons can use one EW module (be it nuet/TD/ECM) to have an actual effect on another ship (chance based or not - being balanced with power of the mods), minmatar and gallente recons have to apply atleast two mods to have any noticeable and real change on another ship (TP/Web/SD require atleast two mods to have any noticeable effect). With gallente it isn't as bad since scrams and 24k points are useful even when using one mod - while webs require atleast two to be effective, and TPs require the same amount and its debatable if they're worth the slot.. ATM a huginn (and to a lesser extent, a rapier) are pretty much useless - I can hardly think of a situation where I wouldn't want a curse/lach/scimitar(for the poor sobs who trained minmatar) flying with me over a huginn. Trying to speed control? Curse will nuet them at almost the same ranges, and if target has cap charges, a scram at 20k+ from a lach will easily stop 99% of ships (no one fits ABs except for AFs and some BSs, and in both cases you're faster with a MWD.) Trying to do DPS? falloff will mean your huginn (highest recon dps on paper/eft) wont do max damage, same with sig radius for your heavies - you can maybe hope for drone dps + 50% of paper, meaning a curse with just drones will outdamage you. Not to mention a nanocane, a vaga, an ishtar, and about any other cruiser/BC hull can outdamage you and still perform every one of your useful functions. Want to target paint? be my guest, but be ready to have a paper tank and gimp fitting, while still being less effective than any other recon. However, even with a web bonus of 7.5% huginns will again become useful in certain niches, while allowing other recons to keep their niches. TPs are kinda broken atm, and should be looked into deeper. and SDs only need a real small boost (3%? 2%?) to make them be effective on the 1 module level, same with TDs and ECMs. Edit: Spelling and clarifications.
Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.25 02:30:00 - [28] Originally by: Lili Lu ... We here at CCP nerf modules and ships from time to time. Ok, well, we do it fairly regularly. However, we rarely provide a compensating buff, unless the ships in question are Caldari. You are not part of that majority. And, you don't have as vocal a whine squad. So, no, you do not qualify for a 33% increase in the strength of an already overpowered ew effect, at the same time as we are sorta nerfing you. I mean come on, preventing another ship from locking anything really needs some help, but partially slowing down another ship could be game breaking.... Anyway, think about the poor ecm boats. ... Yes, I see no-one whines about ECM here. My point was that Caldari have to go with 4 slots to have their E-war effective against everything. Guess what, so do the rest of the races, that's why you need to put 2 mods on each ship. I do however think that Curse is the one with the best slot layout. Instead of burying your head in the ground and whine as some do, listen to Sokratez, his was a very good suggestion. To take that solution a step closer to happening, I'd suggest you go for transferring the TP bonus to a web bonus. (even an unbonused TP or 2 will help quite a bit).
Lili Lu	Posted - 2009.11.25 04:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Tagami Wasp Originally by: Lili Lu ... We here at CCP nerf modules and ships from time to time. Ok, well, we do it fairly regularly. However, we rarely provide a compensating buff, unless the ships in question are Caldari. You are not part of that majority. And, you don't have as vocal a whine squad. So, no, you do not qualify for a 33% increase in the strength of an already overpowered ew effect, at the same time as we are sorta nerfing you. I mean come on, preventing another ship from locking anything really needs some help, but partially slowing down another ship could be game breaking.... Anyway, think about the poor ecm boats. ... Yes, I see no-one whines about ECM here. My point was that Caldari have to go with 4 slots to have their E-war effective against everything. Guess what, so do the rest of the races, that's why you need to put 2 mods on each ship. I do however think that Curse is the one with the best slot layout. Instead of burying your head in the ground and whine as some do, listen to Sokratez, his was a very good suggestion. To take that solution a step closer to happening, I'd suggest you go for transferring the TP bonus to a web bonus. (even an unbonused TP or 2 will help quite a bit). So tell me where I got anything wrong about ECM "nerfs" compared to other ew nerfs? Did the Arazu get any compensatory buff yet? Did the Pilgrim get anything that restored it's place a feared ship after the nos nerf? Did the Rapier get a compensatory buff when webs were nerfed? To all these, no. However, we have now gone through two supposed ecm nerfs. But the thing is, each time the ecm modules were nerfed, the ecm boats got simultaneously buffed And, tell me that preventing a ship from locking anything is weak compared to slowing a ship down 60%, making it's signature about 50% larger, draining it's cap at not insignificant cost to your own, reducing the tracking or range of gun turrets, reducing its lock range/increasing its lock time around 40-some percent, and putting a 40km point. Preventing a lock means you don't have to give a **** about the other ships speed, sig radius, repping, guns, drones, or missiles. It is a non entity on the battlefield, and if they are all non-recon or BS you can probably jam them without much hassle at all. One thing I will agree with is that it is pointless to call for an ecm nerf because it will never happen. Too many whines from the majority race, and for some reason CCP feels there must be a mechanism in the game where ships are rendered totally impotent (ecm) instead of just partially impotent (all other ew). So hell yeah we need the other ew boats buffed mightilly.
Kazang Gallente Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.11.25 05:29:00 - [30] Sorta signed. Web strength should be bonused 5 or 7.5% per level. But remove the stacking, so it not possible to stop ships dead with a single recon, but enable it to heavily web multiple targets without spending huge amount of midslots to do it. Stopping carriers get back into pos bubbles etc is sorta needed but not from rapier range and stacking 90% webs would insta death to frigate/cruiser class ships with current game mechanics. I do think the minny recons need a buff and is a shadow of its former self but 99% percent slowing is just too much. Kazang



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