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Tsumei Meyren Creative Cookie Procuring	Posted - 2009.11.20 12:35:00 - [1] Righto, making a long explanation short: I've been thinking about getting myself into a marauder simply as a long-term goal, seeing as I've trained most things I want other than that already, it seems like a good idea and all - would make missions go by faster atleast with the nifty salvage/tractor combo. I am currently flying an Ishtar, so basically most of my missions are a breeze of afk-ness. But I still want to have some kind of a powerhouse to bring out that just whoops the missions arse now and then. The choices are: Paladin, Kronos, Vargur. The reason I leave out the golem is that I've no interest in it or any of the pvp ships that I get benefits for with caldari bs V, put simply, minmatar and Gallente are the ships I fly the most often, but I've still included paladin because from what I can see it looks better than the other two in EFT. Basically what I would like to know is how they work in "the real world". EFT can only tell me this much, so I'd like some feedback if you own any of these ships and fly them regularly about whether they work well etc. If you can supply this, thanks! -------------------------------------------------------- Creative Cookie Procuring [Girl.] Are recruiting!
N Ano Caldari SoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 12:36:00 - [2] Go with the paladin You will not regret it after you see it in action and just how amazing the amarr bs are Make the Beership a reality!
Suas Perkone	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:11:00 - [3] Amarr BS >>> * Paladin is your clear bet. _________________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE!
TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.	Posted - 2009.11.20 13:22:00 - [4] I have a question aswell. Is it a good idea to have a Vargur and a Paladin, or should I just get a Paladin? Was thinking Paladin for Blood or Sansha, with Vargur for everything else.
N Ano Caldari SoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 14:17:00 - [5] Edited by: N Ano on 20/11/2009 14:17:12 Originally by: TimMc I have a question aswell. Is it a good idea to have a Vargur and a Paladin, or should I just get a Paladin? Was thinking Paladin for Blood or Sansha, with Vargur for everything else. Paladin and Kronos > Vargur & Paladin Make the Beership a reality!
kyrv	Posted - 2009.11.20 14:31:00 - [6] Right im swapping vargur for paladin!
comrade captain	Posted - 2009.11.20 14:33:00 - [7] Vargur is only good vs angels, kronos would be better to use vs guristas or serpentis as lasers suck vs them
Alpha India	Posted - 2009.11.20 14:42:00 - [8] Regarding Angels, whom I mostly fight. I would definitely go with a Paladin. I chose the Vargur... Silly mistake! After reading all the comments on the boards for the past year, I shouldn't have. Why didn't I listen!? Pala absolutely creams Angels. The Vargur not in the same league. And especially after Dominion hits with its purer explosive, and thermal ammunition... The Vargur is only going to get worse against Angels and Mercs, and other close range missions, or whomever it wasn't made to fight. I mean I absolutely hate having to decline missions as well. I don't want to choose. I just want to run them all, even the stupid ones. In other words, PALADIN GREATER THAN EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ANYTIME!
kyrv	Posted - 2009.11.20 14:58:00 - [9] Seriously it takes a few seconds to EFT some fits and what I found the vargur has obviously best omnitank I never need to change to a static tank for missions unless its elite like guristas extravaganza, its a good pace to set (and be broken) the only concern and arguable the best reason is to buy 10-20 millions worth of ammunition you know your going to rake back. Nah i'd stick to vargur, btw whats up with paladin / kronos tank i'd like to point out your missing on full room agro.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.20 15:00:00 - [10] Edited by: Seriously Bored on 20/11/2009 15:04:09 Originally by: Alpha India Regarding Angels, whom I mostly fight. I would definitely go with a Paladin. I chose the Vargur... Silly mistake! After reading all the comments on the boards for the past year, I shouldn't have. Why didn't I listen!? Pala absolutely creams Angels. The Vargur not in the same league. And especially after Dominion hits with its purer explosive, and thermal ammunition... The Vargur is only going to get worse against Angels and Mercs, and other close range missions, or whomever it wasn't made to fight. I mean I absolutely hate having to decline missions as well. I don't want to choose. I just want to run them all, even the stupid ones. In other words, PALADIN GREATER THAN EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE ANYTIME! I can that on Sisi, the Vargur feels like this against Angels. And it feels much better than it used to against everything else.

TimMc Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.	Posted - 2009.11.20 15:22:00 - [11] Originally by: comrade captain Vargur is only good vs angels, kronos would be better to use vs guristas or serpentis as lasers suck vs them Phased Plasma not good enough?
Tsumei Meyren Creative Cookie Procuring	Posted - 2009.11.20 15:59:00 - [12] I'm seeing a lot of positives for the paladin, which was kind of expected really because of it's enormous range etc. Anyone care to share some comments on how the Kronos operates in a mission? I kind of get stuck on it's range quite quickly I feel, it just isn't "enough" to really stand out even though it's dps is pretty intense. so whilst it surely rips things apart, you'd have to shuttle back and forth an awful lot, right? -------------------------------------------------------- Creative Cookie Procuring [Girl.] Are recruiting!
Jessica Fyers Gallente Azure Horizon	Posted - 2009.11.20 16:42:00 - [13] Well, i only use antimatter on my Kronos, along with a tracking comp with both range/ track speed scripts in the hold. Most mission NPCs orbit near or slightly under the 40km mark, so its not a terrible problem to loot on the go. Only mission i bring Lead charge is 'Surprise Surprise', in which there are a couple stasis towers at 80km or so - can still hit the NPCs, but just hate being webbed One thing in particular about Marauders: only thing they got over t1 BS, is their ability to salvage on the go. I usually finish a mission faster with my CNR, but even with salvaging in a Marauder, it doesnt take that much longer. But you should check out ofc which rats give out good salvage and are worth taking the time to clear: Guristas/ Serps/ Drones/ Mercs/ EoM are generally not good, whereas Blood Raider/ Sansha and Angels drop very usefull stuff. ---------------------------------------------- Some people say you should fight fire with fire... Nonsense of course; you should fight everything with fire!
Spaztick Terminal Impact Kairakau	Posted - 2009.11.20 17:38:00 - [14] If you want some versatility and the ability to kill angels faster, go golem or vargur. For anything else go Paladin. I own a Vargur myself and it's the best Minmatar missioning ship out there (I tear through things at least 2x faster than my Maelstrom), it's by no means the best missioning ship and only outdoes all the other marauders with Hail ammo up close against angels. Paladin for you since you can't fly the Golem.
Avoida	Posted - 2009.11.20 17:39:00 - [15] I fly a Paladin and a Kronos together running missions and they absolutely murder anything and everything regardless of resists.
Glassback Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.11.20 17:46:00 - [16] I use a CNR/Kronos combo. The Kronos is set up to shield rep the CNR and damage.
Atlas Oracle Minmatar Colossus Enterprises	Posted - 2009.11.20 18:25:00 - [17] Originally by: Glassback I use a CNR/Kronos combo. The Kronos is set up to shield rep the CNR and damage. how do you keep aggro off the Kronos?
Deb Dukar Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:19:00 - [18] i'd got for the vagur. especialy with the changes on sisi. 4x800mm auto's and some tracking enhancers should easily bring you to 50-60KM range which is more then enuff for missions. ------------------------- horray for typos
Ronin Vaga	Posted - 2009.11.20 23:03:00 - [19] I have an additional question. From all that I can see in EFT, I don't see a very compelling reason to go from an Abaddon with a dedicated salvager trailing, to a Palladin. I still get more DPS and tank from my Ab. The only advantage in the Paly will be point blank DPS under 20Km if I go with MPulsesII . Tell me what I'm missing here.
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.11.20 23:21:00 - [20] Originally by: Ronin Vaga I have an additional question. From all that I can see in EFT, I don't see a very compelling reason to go from an Abaddon with a dedicated salvager trailing, to a Palladin. I still get more DPS and tank from my Ab. The only advantage in the Paly will be point blank DPS under 20Km if I go with MPulsesII . Tell me what I'm missing here. Unlike the Abaddon, the Paladin has the fittings and capacitor to use the mighty Tachyon Beam lasers. The Paladin can easily be fit with 2 tracking computers and have more than enough cap which gives you something stupid like 41km optimal with multifrequency, which means it hugely outdamages a pulse-fit Abaddon outside of 15-20km. The increased damage at longer ranges also means that very few things will even GET to 15km and if they do, you can just hit them with an overheated navy web and one-volley pretty much any non-elite cruiser that gets stuck there. The Paladin also massively increases your salvaging efficiency since you can just sit in one spot, killing everything within 40km and tractoring it into a tiny ball, and then after you've done that for 3-4 for missions you take all of 10 minutes warping between them with a salvage-rigged destroyer just eating the wrecks. Basically Paladin + Tachs + tracking computers does more dps at most ranges that you'll be shooting than the Abaddon does, with the looting bonuses on top. ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)

Ronin Vaga	Posted - 2009.11.21 00:30:00 - [21] Ok sounds good. I have not fitted tracking computers so I'll see what the numbers look like with those as well. Do you think I should throw on 2 LARS or some heat sinks? Id DPS "better" then tank? Or shold I split the difference?
Ravenal The Fated E.Y	Posted - 2009.11.21 01:28:00 - [22] imo: 1. paladin 2. vargur 3. cruise golem 4. torp golem 5. kronos Does depend on what you are fighting (the range) ... but thats my general assessment. .
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.11.21 03:02:00 - [23] Edited by: Terianna Eri on 21/11/2009 03:03:50 Originally by: Ronin Vaga Ok sounds good. I have not fitted tracking computers so I'll see what the numbers look like with those as well. Do you think I should throw on 2 LARS or some heat sinks? Id DPS "better" then tank? Or shold I split the difference? Like with all mission ships, DPS is much better than tank. You only need enough tank to not have to spend any money on armor reps when you get back to the station (and of course to not die or warp out), but you pretty much never have enough DPS. Also, since it takes some time for a mission room to put full DPS on you, you can tank most missions just by blasting everything and tanking what's left. You can't really fit dual reps with Tachs so it's a moot point, although if you don't know what you're doing I might fit dual reps just for safety on, say, Damsel in Distress, since that mission deals a lot of DPS if you get caught in the middle of a bunch of the merc BS, and that's one of the few missions where you'll want to fit pulse (for the tracking, not for the additional DPS). For most missions I use this, sometimes adding an Afterburner. Quote: [Paladin, Tachyons] Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink Amarr Navy Heat Sink 'Protest' Large Armor Repairer I Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Amarr Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Ronin Vaga	Posted - 2009.11.21 04:53:00 - [24] Is there a Fitting application that shows the stats for fitting, Faction, Officer, and Deadspace mods?
Amaha Megumi Gallente Draconis Compact Eclectic Collective	Posted - 2009.11.21 05:27:00 - [25] Edited by: Amaha Megumi on 21/11/2009 05:28:40 Originally by: Tsumei Meyren Anyone care to share some comments on how the Kronos operates in a mission? I kind of get stuck on it's range quite quickly I feel, it just isn't "enough" to really stand out even though it's dps is pretty intense. If you fly a Kronos, you get used to waiting. You get your highest damage at right around your tractor beam range, so if you feel like salvaging everything typically you aggro and wait for them to close range, then open fire. The Kronos also inherits the Megathron's tracking bonus per level of marauder, so you can be a bit more loose about letting stuff get close and still be able to shoot it with your heavy damage guns instead of depending on your drones. Depending on how you set up your mids (I use a web/painter/TC+appropriate scripts, switching something out for an AB for certain missions), even close orbiting cruisers can be hit for close to full damage. You'll have the largest drone bay of all the marauders, so that's a plus. But for reasons unfathomable, you get the EXACT same bandwidth as the others (75Mb? Seriously CCP, couldn't spring us for 100 Mb?). I personally go with 5 lights/5 meds/2 heavies, but 3 sentries + w/e works just as well. Now, as for rats... Serp/Gurista- you will decimate them. As in 2-3 shot BS's with good skills. Not really a big surprise Angels- Middle of the road. Some say the paladin would be better due to the overwhelming damage of tachs, but I've tried both and while the paladin does have an edge, but it's not as massive as some may make it out to be. Mordus- Will drop like flies. EoM/Mercs- Also easy Sansha- while it is easy to tank sansha, killing fast is a whole nother story. Be prepared to wait as slave lords laugh at your damage while they orbit just outside your damage sweet spot (typically 50km) Blood raiders- personally, I hate Blood raiders; simply because at the ranges I like to attack at (40km>) they have a horrible tendancy to Nos you into inactivity. Other than that, almost exactly the same to deal with as sasha, but slightly easier, since they'll close range As an aside, if you're used to missioning in an ishtar, you might wanna try getting in a proteus. You'll lose 25 bandwith, but you can have the same tractor beam bonus as the marauders. And nowadays they cost about the same. Edit: fixed my spacing so it won't make you go blind ;p
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.11.21 06:18:00 - [26] Originally by: Ronin Vaga Is there a Fitting application that shows the stats for fitting, Faction, Officer, and Deadspace mods? In the lower left corner of EFT you can change it from market to faction, complex, or officer gear. ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Mike712	Posted - 2009.11.21 08:09:00 - [27] Edited by: Mike712 on 21/11/2009 08:12:09 Originally by: Ravenal imo: 1. paladin 2. vargur 3. cruise golem 4. torp golem 5. kronos Does depend on what you are fighting (the range) ... but thats my general assessment. lol ok, well you're wrong :P 1. Torp Golem, The undisputed king of missions. 2. Paladin, A properly fitted Nightmare is superior though due to it's inherent tracking bonus and being easily able to fit 4 heat sinks without sacrificing any tank. 3. Kronos, Limited by the effectiveness of rails, but if you have an alt with some tracking links you can get 40km with blasters and null which of course is sexy as hell. 4. Vargur, Just doesn't really compete with the other marauders in terms of damage due to having to fight in falloff(dominion will improve this marginally with the boost to large projectile ammo) 5. Cruise Golem, Has less DPS than a cruise CNR.
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.11.21 11:05:00 - [28] Originally by: Mike712 1. Torp Golem, The undisputed king of missions. 2. Paladin, A properly fitted Nightmare is superior though due to it's inherent tracking bonus and being easily able to fit 4 heat sinks without sacrificing any tank. 3. Kronos, Limited by the effectiveness of rails, but if you have an alt with some tracking links you can get 40km with blasters and null which of course is sexy as hell. 4. Vargur, Just doesn't really compete with the other marauders in terms of damage due to having to fight in falloff(dominion will improve this marginally with the boost to large projectile ammo) 5. Cruise Golem, Has considerably less DPS than a cruise CNR. Torp golem can't really do damage outside of what is it, 45-50km? Granted if you're looting and salvaging everything that isn't a problem but I can think of a few missions off the top of my head where enemies spawn 60km away or even 100km. Personally I think having about the same DPS but being able to do it with turrets instead is a better way, because that way you can easily nuke things that you're not interested in looting/salvaging (for me, this is most things) on approach. I'm not sure how much better the Nightmare is since the Paladin can easily fit 2x TCs without meaningfully impacting its cap recharge, which gives it better tracking than a 1x TE nightmare, but I dunno how many TCs a typical nightmare fits. Either way I'd be terribly surprised if the Nightmare's slightly improved kill speed over the Paladin made up for the time the Paladin saves in looting/salvaging. ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Tsumei Meyren Creative Cookie Procuring	Posted - 2009.11.21 19:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Amaha Megumi Edited by: Amaha Megumi on 21/11/2009 05:28:40 Originally by: Tsumei Meyren Anyone care to share some comments on how the Kronos operates in a mission? I kind of get stuck on it's range quite quickly I feel, it just isn't "enough" to really stand out even though it's dps is pretty intense. If you fly a Kronos, you get used to waiting. You get your highest damage at right around your tractor beam range, so if you feel like salvaging everything typically you aggro and wait for them to close range, then open fire. The Kronos also inherits the Megathron's tracking bonus per level of marauder, so you can be a bit more loose about letting stuff get close and still be able to shoot it with your heavy damage guns instead of depending on your drones. Depending on how you set up your mids (I use a web/painter/TC+appropriate scripts, switching something out for an AB for certain missions), even close orbiting cruisers can be hit for close to full damage. You'll have the largest drone bay of all the marauders, so that's a plus. But for reasons unfathomable, you get the EXACT same bandwidth as the others (75Mb? Seriously CCP, couldn't spring us for 100 Mb?). I personally go with 5 lights/5 meds/2 heavies, but 3 sentries + w/e works just as well. Now, as for rats... Serp/Gurista- you will decimate them. As in 2-3 shot BS's with good skills. Not really a big surprise Angels- Middle of the road. Some say the paladin would be better due to the overwhelming damage of tachs, but I've tried both and while the paladin does have an edge, but it's not as massive as some may make it out to be. Mordus- Will drop like flies. EoM/Mercs- Also easy Sansha- while it is easy to tank sansha, killing fast is a whole nother story. Be prepared to wait as slave lords laugh at your damage while they orbit just outside your damage sweet spot (typically 50km) Blood raiders- personally, I hate Blood raiders; simply because at the ranges I like to attack at (40km>) they have a horrible tendancy to Nos you into inactivity. Other than that, almost exactly the same to deal with as sasha, but slightly easier, since they'll close range As an aside, if you're used to missioning in an ishtar, you might wanna try getting in a proteus. You'll lose 25 bandwith, but you can have the same tractor beam bonus as the marauders. And nowadays they cost about the same. Edit: fixed my spacing so it won't make you go blind ;p Cheers for this, very usefull info. Also seems like the thread itself has gotten a lot more response than I had originally thought, and definitely some more insight into the various ships and how they work. -------------------------------------------------------- Creative Cookie Procuring [Girl.] Are recruiting!
Mike712	Posted - 2009.11.21 19:46:00 - [30] Originally by: Terianna Eri Originally by: Mike712 1. Torp Golem, The undisputed king of missions. 2. Paladin, A properly fitted Nightmare is superior though due to it's inherent tracking bonus and being easily able to fit 4 heat sinks without sacrificing any tank. 3. Kronos, Limited by the effectiveness of rails, but if you have an alt with some tracking links you can get 40km with blasters and null which of course is sexy as hell. 4. Vargur, Just doesn't really compete with the other marauders in terms of damage due to having to fight in falloff(dominion will improve this marginally with the boost to large projectile ammo) 5. Cruise Golem, Has considerably less DPS than a cruise CNR. Torp golem can't really do damage outside of what is it, 45-50km? Granted if you're looting and salvaging everything that isn't a problem but I can think of a few missions off the top of my head where enemies spawn 60km away or even 100km. Personally I think having about the same DPS but being able to do it with turrets instead is a better way, because that way you can easily nuke things that you're not interested in looting/salvaging (for me, this is most things) on approach. I'm not sure how much better the Nightmare is since the Paladin can easily fit 2x TCs without meaningfully impacting its cap recharge, which gives it better tracking than a 1x TE nightmare, but I dunno how many TCs a typical nightmare fits. Either way I'd be terribly surprised if the Nightmare's slightly improved kill speed over the Paladin made up for the time the Paladin saves in looting/salvaging. Javelin torps maybe? A golem can do almost 900 DPS at up to 70km with javs, some missile implants with tech 2 rigs. And yes if you do loot and salvage mid mission the paladin is faster, but I don't and I only salvage maybe 1/4 of missions because I make more from bounties than tanking the time to salvage with the amount of DPS my NM puts out. Only missions I will salvage are battleship heavy blood and sansha and I do it in a purpose built salvage ship(soon to be a t3) once I've handed in the mission.



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